Elecrtic fans

[Rick@battlement]

I am looking for info to install an electric fan in my 82 wagoneer to replace the belt driven one. I have got the Dodge 360TBI in and an electric fan would make things alot easier. I had the upper/lower connections moved on the stock three row radiator to match the engine. The lower one is still in the way of the belt driven fan. Do I need to push or pull air?
Thanks
Rick

[gsmikie]

i think i hava a new one in the box out in the yard sale stuff

[maxrad]

Trssho has done what you are asking and when I asked him recently what type of fan unit he was running this was his reply:

"The fans I use are from any 1996 - 2000 Chrysler/ Dodge minivan. I would highly recomend this set up over any aftermarket fans. The way the fan shroud is built around these fans, you can bolt them "directly" to the factory shroud mounting location. This is preferable to zip tying the fan to your radiator. These fans pull so much air, that I only have one hooked up! I can plug in the second one if I needed to, but haven't yet.
One more thing, for clearance purposes, I had to mount the assembly upside down.

Click the pics in my signature, and you will find a pic of the fans.

-------------------
Wagoneer pictures:
http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/trssho/lst?.dir=/Jeep&.view=t]
"

I will be doing the same in the near future. I like his setup.

BTW welcome to the forum.

[Rick@battlement]

Gsmikie, What type of fan do you Have?

Maxrad That was great info thanks.

Rick

[gsmikie]

it,s a haden model 3710 16 inch 1,675 cfm its new in the box

[Kukur]

So, is there a preference for a push or pull fan when looking into this upgrade?

[Kukur]

So, is there a preference for a push or pull fan when looking into this upgrade?

[battlementwagoneer]

I do not have an answer for the push/pull question, but I will know when I get the fan setup from the Mini Van. I will post it or someone will answer it for us.

[JeepKahn]

Push/pull answer.... If you are running e-fan as auxillary you want push/in front of rad, if e-fan is the primary fan you want to pull...

[River Beast]

MAXRAD... AWESOME info!!! You need to submit that with a writeup to put into the tech setion of the IFSJA

[battlementwagoneer]

Mavrad,I agree with riverbeast AWSOME INFO. Looking at the pic attached I cannot tell if the fans from the mini van is a puller, I guess it depends which rotation it has. I am looking for a set now and will post any new info I gather. Thanks Again

[89grand]

Electric fans are like as$holes, everybody's got one and...oh wait, I guess everybody doesn't have one...never mind.

[Kukur]

What's a rough idea on the cost for those Chrysler/Dodge fans? :D

[Peter Matusov]

here's my $0.01:
long ago, on the original fsj list, Mike Baxter said on several occasions that no electric fan(s) beat(s) stock setup. This is very true.

I have auxillary pusher fans in both jeeps (16" in '79 Chero, 12" in the '68 Wag), and tried to use 16" and 12" fans as main pullers on an 89 Range Rover.
In no case electric fans alone were able to keep up with the heat. The Range Rover had twin pusher auxillary electric fan setup to begin with, and I hoped these four together will take care of the heat. Nope, barely adequate even in city driving with no more than 80F outside. Finally, I splurged for a stock fan, clutch, and shroud for the RR, and never had an issue since.
The RR's fan is smaller than 19" stock AMC360 unit, and it is rated at about 2500 cfm THROUGH the radiator (not open). Unless you have space for TWO 16" fans like the Hayden unit mentioned before, you won't like it.
On the jeep, it is better to invest in Hayden heavy-duty clutch (2747) than in an electric fan. A proper shroud alone will bring you up to where you'd have a stock fan AND a big electric fan.

peter

[trssho]

I found the biggest advantage was the HP increase. And these Jeeps need all the power they can get.I have some additional pics here of the Chrysler fan set up. As for the ability of these fans to pull air, nothing I have seen bomes close. When they are running, and you walk by the front grill, it will grab your shirt. The key to the effectiveness of these fans, is the fit of the shroud around the radiator.

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1984-1992-GrandWagoneers/DSC03508.jpg

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1984-1992-GrandWagoneers/DSC03509.jpg

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1984-1992-GrandWagoneers/DSC03514.jpg

[ May 19, 2003, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: trssho ]

[trssho]

Originally posted by Kukur:
What's a rough idea on the cost for those Chrysler/Dodge fans? :D New, they are over $300. Definately scour a salvage yard, as they are plentiful vehicles. Thes fans are puller. If it is on the engine side of the radiator, it is a puller, as it pulls the air past the radiator. On the grill side of the radiator, it pushes the air past the radiator.

[highspeedgi]

So putting in an electric pulliing fan in place of the stock fan will increase my horsepower? An Ec fan from a Cry/dodge minivan is almost a bolt in? Am I reading this right?

[trssho]

Originally posted by highspeedgi:
So putting in an electric pulliing fan in place of the stock fan will increase my horsepower? An Ec fan from a Cry/dodge minivan is almost a bolt in? Am I reading this right?Not a direct bolt on, some modification will be required. Also, you will need to wire in a fan control module, which I bought a PEP BOYS.

As fot horse power, it adds power by not requiring the engine to turn the fan. I would think +- 15 HP.

[ May 19, 2003, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: trssho ]

[rockjeep44]

I run two 16in Derale electric fans with the curved blades. My primary, which turns on when the ignition is on, is a puller and is mounted against the right side of the radiator. My secondary which is activated by a switch is a pusher and is mounted against the left side of the radiator. They work and cool great and with this setup I have 100% radiator coverage. The radiator is a 4 core copper radiator. I especially like being able to shut the truck down but leave my secondary fan on to cool it while I go and do something else. Mechanical fans obviously stop cooling when the engine is shut off. Also, I can flow tons of air at even the slowest speeds which is nice.
-Andrew

[jode]

Originally posted by trssho:
As fot horse power, it adds power by not requiring the engine to turn the fan. I would think +- 15 HP.Going electric in and of itself does not create/release HP. Your motor still has to turn the alternator to power the elect fan. The advantage comes in that the lectercal fan may or may not be on (depending on the temp) so if it aint running, then the engine aint running it and you just freed up some ponies for other tasks (like turning your wheels)
What's my point, it aint all as clear as black and white...
Sounds like that minivan conversion is a good one though...if you seal up all the air leaks, it sounds like it'll do the trick. My jeep cools just fine in normal driving situations, but it tends to warm up in crawling 4X4 situations. I think I am going to try a new fan clutch and see if I can round up (or fab) a fan shroud. If that don't work, I'll be hunting the junkyards for minivans (I never thought I'd hear my self say that :D )

[trssho]

Originally posted by jode:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by trssho:
As fot horse power, it adds power by not requiring the engine to turn the fan. I would think +- 15 HP.Going electric in and of itself does not create/release HP. Your motor still has to turn the alternator to power the elect fan. The advantage comes in that the lectercal fan may or may not be on (depending on the temp) so if it aint running, then the engine aint running it and you just freed up some ponies for other tasks (like turning your wheels)
What's my point, it aint all as clear as black and white...
Sounds like that minivan conversion is a good one though...if you seal up all the air leaks, it sounds like it'll do the trick. My jeep cools just fine in normal driving situations, but it tends to warm up in crawling 4X4 situations. I think I am going to try a new fan clutch and see if I can round up (or fab) a fan shroud. If that don't work, I'll be hunting the junkyards for minivans (I never thought I'd hear my self say that :D )</font>[/QUOTE]15 AMP draw from the alternator does not comare to the fan. On my grand Cherokee, the 5.9's got electric cooling fans to free up HP. I would say it is a seat of the pant increase. Motor revs up little easier.

[scotty]

i have been running electric fans pretty much since i started wheeling my jeep. my main reason is that i can turn them off in water,and in deep mudholes. a mechanical fan will quickly saturate everything in the engnie compt,especially if you dont have a shroud. i very quickly got tired of replacing the alternator every time i got stuck in a deep mudhole :eek: things like alternators dont like it much when you get sandy,silty, muck in their innards.

you think your mechanical fan is costing you horsepower on the street,try spinning it under water.im sure it takes 2 or 3 times the horsies to spin it in the water than in the air ;)

ive always used FWD car fans from the boneyard-i usually pick em up for no more than $20 apiece. i just swapped in a dual fan set up that is supposedly out lof a mid-late 90s malibu. that sucker moves ALOT of air with both fans on. ill prolly only need to run 1 most of the time.

combined with the 3 row GM crossflow radiator i just installed,i shouldnt have too many issues with overheating unless i pack the radiator solid with mud :D

[ May 20, 2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Rick@battlement]

I bought a dual fan this afternoon from a 1996 dodge caravan. I had to pay $75.00 but it is in great shape and looks like it will fit fairly well. I am thinking about using some kind if foam weather stripping to seal it where it meets the core. This will make a good seal between the two peices and also protect the radiator core from scuffing. Does anyone have any other ideas? I plugged it into 12v and it will suck a watermelon through a garden hose.

[MIDLERTH]

Weather stripping might burn or melt? I thought about using it for my fab'd shroud but used a split peiceof fuel line instead. The fuel line is still rubber but its thicker and i think it will withstand more heat than weather stripping.

[krob725]

Originally posted by Rick@battlement:
I am looking for info to install an electric fan in my 82 wagoneer to replace the belt driven one. I have got the Dodge 360TBI in and an electric fan would make things alot easier. I had the upper/lower connections moved on the stock three row radiator to match the engine. The lower one is still in the way of the belt driven fan. Do I need to push or pull air?
Thanks
RickI had a Dodge 360 in one before. you have to lower the radiator to the next mounting hole. if you had an inch it would work right? most of the wagoneer radiators have several mounting holes. if you use the electric fan it won't matter though.
krob725 :D

[SAustinwag]

nah, weather stripping works fine, it hasn't burned up[ on mine yet...I've installed an auxillary fan to push additional air in from the fron, I'll prolly go ahead and remove my belt drive and add another on the inside..

[MIDLERTH]

If you build your orn shroud i suggest a perma-cool.I got one that pulls 2800cfm and man if you stand over the engine comp. you can feel some serious air/heat transfering.

[Big Daddy aka.redwoodsignman]

Rick I'd like to meet your fans.

[Paul]

Could you take one of those Dodge mini van fan assemblies, reverse the polarity, and make a pusher fan to put in front of the radiator?

[Midnightwagon]

if you reverse them they will still work i belive but are not anywhere near as affective in moving air the blades are designed in a directional pattern meant to pull the air.

[Rick@battlement]

I do not think there is room for the dodge fan in front of the radiator. I saw a ford fan from a contour that was 16" in diameter and made to push. The Dodge fan mounted very well behind the radiator and when running will hold red shop rag on the grill. I think it will cool well.

[Rogue]

it would be slick to wire these Dodge fans up like they did from the factory - they are wired to run two speeds fed from two seperate relays (low/high) - down side is factory is computer controlled with a two stage coolant sensor - plus side is computer can be thrown in the trash and mexican swithces substituted

[jeepthing]

Do you still need the shroud if you're running the electric fans?? Seems like you wouldn't need it since the fans are practically smacked up against the radiator.

[Rick@battlement]

The e-fans from the mini vans have a shroud assembly with them.

[MIDLERTH]

my mersonal opinion is that a shroud is still necessary, even with it right up against the rad. w/o a shroud yoour drawing air from everywhere around the fan-not forcing it to pull through the radiator.

[kidatforty]

Since you guys are on the subject I thought I'd seek some input as well. My wag is great with rebuild and all. New w-pump, 4-core rad,shroud, etc.... It stays at 190 on the freeway and slowly climbs when in stop and go traffic or pulling severe hill-climbs over and over. I have a fan clutch eliminator, stock fan and I'm thinking of adding an electric pusher, oil cooler and extra trans cooler. I priced a Hayden 16" with thermoswitch for $140. Good? Pickapart fans: $35. Whadayah think all? What about flex fan as well?

[Wagillac]

Any one have the dimentions of these dodge MV fans? H, W, D and fan diameter. I should go searching at the years too so any info to help find a good fan will help.

[TexasJ10]

I think the dual chrysler fans could be controlled by two separate temp sensors and two relays rather than worrying about a computer. My 86 BMW has a two speed fan controlled that way. I suspect the high speed could also be triggered by the A/C clutch signal if you wanted to get even more elaborate and add extra cooling when it comes on.

[scotty]

FWD car fans will move more air than most aftermarket "slimline" fans for way less $$$.

an aftermarket fan that will pull as much air as a FWD car fan will defiantely cost you some $$.

in a "CFM per dollar spent" aspect,you cant beat a $25-$35 FWD car fan from the local pick your part

a friend of mine got the one im using from ebay for $45 smile.gif

[LarryD]

Did '84 GWs come with fan shrouds from the factory? Seems to me they would but my GW is missing it. Don't like the set up anyway as it sits. Would DEFINITELY consider the electrical dual fan set up TRSSHO has.

BTw, TRSSHO, what was the color you used on your GW. I like it. My rig is in serious need of a repaint, something close to the original color. Course, it also needs an engine (new/rebuild), seats working, etc.........minor stuff you know

Thanks,

Larry

[trssho]

Color is Black Cherry from a 1990 Du Pont color book.

[trssho]

Originally posted by MIDLERTH:
my mersonal opinion is that a shroud is still necessary, even with it right up against the rad. w/o a shroud yoour drawing air from everywhere around the fan-not forcing it to pull through the radiator.The fans come with their own shroud which eliminates the need for the factory shroud. It mounts flush against 3 sides if the radiator, and as mentioned previously, foam can be installed along the bottom between the shroud and rad core. This was not necessary for cooling, but was for the noise level.When these puppies are spinning, it is amazing....you really have to see to beleive.

[trssho]

Originally posted by RogueStar:
it would be slick to wire these Dodge fans up like they did from the factory - they are wired to run two speeds fed from two seperate relays (low/high) - down side is factory is computer controlled with a two stage coolant sensor - plus side is computer can be thrown in the trash and mexican swithces substitutedThe factory actually used one solid state relay which had an infinate variable speed. The engine computer modulates the relay off and on to control the speed. The relays were problematic early on, and Chrysler had a recall to replace them with an updated version. 2 speed fans fom the factory have 3 wires going to the motors, and these are 2 wire.