Could a D60-2 become a FF D60?

[ColeTrickle]

I was wondering if this could happen. I have read and searched alot on the D60-2 semi-floater...and the unavailability or rarity to find parts.
Is there a kit to convert these over to a full floater...I know that Warn makes a full floating kit for the D30, D35, D44 and AMC 20.

Besides just a swap to a newer FF D60 whadya' think?

[Panther]

I'm sure it's possible but not so sure it's worth it.
Here's the bolt pattern of the 60-2 tube flange:
http://www.panther4x4.com/Dana60-2/tube_flange.jpg
As you see it's a 6 bolt pattern, the same as the knuckles on a front 44.
In theory, you could bolt a front axle spindle to this, use the hubs and fab disc brakes.
BUUTTT!!!
First, this does not eliminate you problem with "rare" parts because you will still need the hard to find bearings for the shafts. But come to thing of it, you would need a custom bearing set that seats in the odd 60-2 races but is the FF style bearings. Unless the races for the FF bearings are the same size and diameter as the semi-floaters?
Second, the axle shafts are 35 spline at the carrier so you would need custom shaft that are 35 spline that then taper to 19 spline on the outside for the front hubs. Of you could swap a 30 spline carrier and have 30 inner and 19 outer splines.

I could be wrong but that's my thinking but I still like the advantage of the 35 spline semi-floater over the 30 spline full floater.

[oldyellowwagoneer]

The only bearings you would need are the easy to buy front hub bearings. the rear axle bearings are no longer needed. I dont know what that 6 hole pattern is but it could also be the same pattern as a front dana 60 spindle. if it is then you can make an axle shaft with 35 splines on both ends, use the D60 front hubs rotor backing plate, calipers and some 35 spline locking hubs. If its the D44 front spindle pattern then you can use axle shafts made with 35 spline on one end and the D44 spline on the other. DENNIS

[oldyellowwagoneer]

...... OR just buy a ff D60 out of a van at the wrecking yard. Its probably cheaper and stronger. DENNIS

[tuck]

sell your dana 60-2 to a lil' jeeper and get a Dana 60 35spline or Dana 70 or 14 Bolt...

[tomd]

Originally posted by tuck:
sell your dana 60-2 to a lil' jeeper and get a Dana 60 35spline or Dana 70 or 14 Bolt...The J pickup 60-2 is a 35 spline smile.gif

A Full Floating 60 (aka 60-3) is usually 30 spline

I have a 60-2 i'm willing to sell if anybody wants it.

[tuck]

I wasn't aware that the 60-2 had 35 spline shafts, what diameter is the shaft?

[tomd]

The J pickup ones are 35 Spline 1.5" shafts.

[ December 26, 2002, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: 74 Wag ]

[ColeTrickle]

Originally posted by Panther:
I'm sure it's possible but not so sure it's worth it.
Here's the bolt pattern of the 60-2 tube flange:
http://www.panther4x4.com/Dana60-2/tube_flange.jpg
As you see it's a 6 bolt pattern, the same as the knuckles on a front 44.
In theory, you could bolt a front axle spindle to this, use the hubs and fab disc brakes.
BUUTTT!!!
First, this does not eliminate you problem with "rare" parts because you will still need the hard to find bearings for the shafts. But come to thing of it, you would need a custom bearing set that seats in the odd 60-2 races but is the FF style bearings. Unless the races for the FF bearings are the same size and diameter as the semi-floaters?
Second, the axle shafts are 35 spline at the carrier so you would need custom shaft that are 35 spline that then taper to 19 spline on the outside for the front hubs. Of you could swap a 30 spline carrier and have 30 inner and 19 outer splines.

I could be wrong but that's my thinking but I still like the advantage of the 35 spline semi-floater over the 30 spline full floater.Panther...forgive me for my ignorance. Your name did come up quite a bit when I was searching the D60 topics.
When you say spindle...I'm thinking the part on the front axle that links the tie rod ends and such.
Could you elaborate? I'm a rook here when it comes to axles. I do know the difference between FF and semi- and that the D60-2 has the 35 spline shafts vs. the std, FF D60 w/ 30 splines.

The only bearings you would need are the easy to buy front hub bearings. the rear axle bearings are no longer needed. I dont know what that 6 hole pattern is but it could also be the same pattern as a front dana 60 spindle. if it is then you can make an axle shaft with 35 splines on both ends, use the D60 front hubs rotor backing plate, calipers and some 35 spline locking hubs. If its the D44 front spindle pattern then you can use axle shafts made with 35 spline on one end and the D44 spline on the other. DENNIS
Dennis...I'm not to sure what your talking about :confused:
I have a feeling it has to do with converting the whole set-up to disk brakes but am unsure. I'm needing pretty elementary advice here. Again...sorry for the ignorance.

tuck
Member # 1127 posted December 26, 2002 01:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sell your dana 60-2 to a lil' jeeper and get a Dana 60 35spline or Dana 70 or 14 Bolt... Tuck...if these parts are rare how am I going to sell this thing? I don't believe I could sell someone something and not tell them..."oh yeah, don't break it...there's no more parts you can buy to replace it".

Teach me more guys! :cool:

[oldyellowwagoneer]

The part that links the tie-rod and ball joints is the knuckle. The spindle bolts onto the Knuckle and is where the front wheel bearings and hub ride. It's held onto the knuckle by 6 bolts in a circular pattern, then the hub/rotor and bearing assy are bolted onto that. DENNIS

[Gwamp]

Just as a side note, some axles that are marked D-60-2 are full floating D-60's. They have the 60-2 stamp on the housing, but have the full floating 30 spline axles. This was an 8-lug axle. I sold it not too long ago to a Toyota guy.

[ December 27, 2002, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Gwamp ]

[Panther]

ColeTrickle,
We are both learning here.
Dennis is absolutely right though.
There is no need to have 2 sets of bearings, one on the axle shaft and then the bearings on the hub. So ignore what I said about the axle shaft bearings, you don't need them because they will be in the hub.
Think of if as taking everything on the front axle and putting in the back. It will basically be the same thing.
1. On the front knuckle you have a round 6 bolt pattern that's the same as the D60-2 (pic)
2. You bolt the front 44 axle spindle to the tube flange the same way you would with the knuckle. Dennis also points out that if the same pattern is shared on D60 fronts, then you can use a 60 spindle and keep the 35 splines at both ends (huge bonus).
3. You then can bolt a caliper bracket to the spindle for your disc brakes (I did this with my SF and have a link on my 60-2 page).
4. Then you put on your rotor / hub assembly and bolt everything up (again, just like the front).

A couple issues I see are the need for custom shafts and the stress at the tube flange and spindle. All the weight will be at that point and I would be concerned with that.

Hey man, if you can work it out and can be the guinea pig on this I might do it myself smile.gif
I would want to be able to run either 5 or 6 lug, use a d60 spindle and keep the shafts 35 splines on both ends, and of yeah, of coarse disc brakes...

Now for my questions....
Does the regular full floating dana 60 have this 6 bolt pattern at the flange?
Does either the F*rd or GM front 60 have this 6 bolt pattern at the knuckle?

[scotty]

hmmm,neat idea. this is the kinda threadi like smile.gif

no,none of the d60s ive seen use that pattern. the spindle is intergral with the housing,and most d60s use 4 bolts to hold the brake backing plate on. the j20 and very early gm 60s do use 6 or 7 bolt patern,but theyre different than that-only 1/2 the circle,not the whole thing.

if someone with the 60-2 can measure the pattern(from 1 bolt across to another,like measuring wheel bolt pattern) i,or someone,can make the same measurement on a front kuckle from a 44.

if you can bolt the 44 spindle and brake backing plate on,then making the axle 5,6 or 8 lugs would be easy :cool: for 5 lug use the scout or ford hub and rotor(id use ford so i could get internal mount lockouts),for 6 lug use 1/2 ton gm or jeep hub/rotor,or for 8 lug use any 3/4 ton 44 or 10 bolt hub/rotor.

only ting is a custom shaft will be needed,but would be worth the benefits,IMO. the shaft would only have to neck down slightly for the 19 or 27 spline lockout.

hmmmm.

once we determine if the a spidle will have the same bolt pattern,next question is will it bolt on? the spindle rests on an inner protrusion,on the knuckle. the 6 bolts do not support the weight,so it will be very important to keep it that way in the back. if the spindle fits tight in the tube,or if the tube is lrg enuff to be machined for the spidle to fit,i think it will work.

if the hole inthe tube is bigger than the protrusion on thespindle,i think youll need to make a spacer to take up the difference,and support the weight-ou definately should not count on the 6 bolts to support the weight of the vehicle :eek:

last and not least,panther,what backing plate are you using for your 60-2? if youre using a stock front caliper bracket,than i think the question of the front spindle fitting is answered...

[Panther]

hey scotty, thought you might chime into this one ;)

I have had a lot of interesting discussions about the 60-2 both on here and emails from folks tell me I'm nuts for running this axle (was also looking for one for my cherokee but that's not gona happen any time soon). That's why you might have seen me post in other threads.

I have more experience with SF than FF so forgot the spindle is integrated to the tube. I remember now seeing a dually rear at the machine shop recently. That would make since to have them as one piece so that way you eliminate the weak point (in this case 6 bolts). Mine is at the shop right now getting narrowed for my scrambler, once it's back I can see how a front spindle will bolt to it. The front caliper bracket does line up, that's how I figured my rear disc brakes. Scotty, I cut out the backing plate to create a "spacer" to properly seat the bearings (more on that here) (http://www.panther4x4.com/Dana60-2/DiscBrakes.html)

I still have a problem with doing all this work and forking out the loot for custom shafts if the outers of the shaft taper down from 1.5" to 1 5/16". It ends of being no better of than a 30 spline FF 60. BUT, if the front D60 spindles bolt to this, well, now we are talking smile.gif

[tomd]

Panther - Just remember, if you want a 60-2 down the road for your Chero, it would be worth e-mailing me since i may or may not still have it, right now it is still sitting in my driveway, i may throw it under my truck, but would like to go FF at some point.

So you *might* be able to put D44 spindles from say a Wag on a 60-2 and then your could have a 6 lug FF D60, sounds like scotty axle to me :D

If you guys need any measurements, i can try to get them since there just happens to be a 60-2 sitting in my driveway. I don't have any front spindles to try bolting on though. Those 6 bolts seem like a real weak point to me. Intereresting concept though.

[ColeTrickle]

The measurements of the "6-bolt circle" is approx. 4". That's eyeballing the best I could with the tire and wheel still attached.
I'm with '74Wag on this one. If y'all need anything let me know.

BTW...Panther, where do you get your new parts? Joe another guru, had mentioned that he searched from the east to west coast looking for stuff.

Just throwing up some discussion...why did Kaiser & Dana or whoever, throw out the 35 splines in favor of FF and 30 splines? FF for obvious reasons but why not add to the strength than mediocrity?

[tomd]

Originally posted by ColeTrickle:
Just throwing up some discussion...why did Kaiser & Dana or whoever, throw out the 35 splines in favor of FF and 30 splines? FF for obvious reasons but why not add to the strength than mediocrity?Well, i really don't know, but for one, they already had the 5 lug front axle, so they would need one for the rear with matching 5 lugs, and considering this axle was only used on 3/4tons, maybe they were just trying to save some money by sticking with a SF.

Also, not all 60-2s are 35 spline, only the 69-73 J-4000 3/4 ton used these axles. The International Harvester Co used 30 spline 60-2s in their P/Us (or so i have heard). And as Gwamp mentioned, there were a few 60-2s that have FF 8 lug with 30 spline shafts. Check out the thread when he was selling it -
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87647&highlight=602
And then i also have a friend who works at a 4x4 shop, and says that hey have a 19 spline SF 60 laying around, don't know if it's true or not though.

Just out of curiousity, ColeTrickle, whats your 60-2 out of?

[ December 27, 2002, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: 74 Wag ]

[Panther]

Originally posted by ColeTrickle:
BTW...Panther, where do you get your new parts? Joe another guru, had mentioned that he searched from the east to west coast looking for stuff.

Just throwing up some discussion...why did Kaiser & Dana or whoever, throw out the 35 splines in favor of FF and 30 splines? FF for obvious reasons but why not add to the strength than mediocrity?Well, fortunately my bearings/races are in good shape. Those are the only hard parts to find, everything else is standard d60. My machine shop has a set of axle shafts with bearings, races and retaining oil flanges. I haven't had a chance to measure them but I know they are not long enough for the drivers side, that one is almost 3 feet long! Anyway, I hope to either create spares by buying these or talking them into pulling the bearings for me.

As for why they didn't use this more, I'm really not sure. My idea is that when AMC took over applications were "standardized" with less odd-ball options that make it difficult for the auto maker and axle vendor to keep up with more available parts. Remember this axle came after the Dana53 which also was a heavy duty axle for the 1/2 tons. The FF was for the 3/4 ton and AMC probably said "the heck with it, 74 on, let's just use 2 rear axles".

Also Tom is right. There aren't alot of 35 spline SF applications. I can only vouch for dana/spicer 67-78 but this is the only semi-floating 35 spline axle dana produced those years. There is one exception, the mopar rear 60 and that was 5 on 4.5 and was a rare find (others were 23 spline). I just went through my book and checked chy/dodge, ford, gm, ihc and jeep and only found the j4000 60-2 to be SF and 35 spline. I have heard that there are some vans that have 5, 6 or even 8 lug SF 35 spliners but I couldn't find them 67-78.

[ColeTrickle]

Hmmm...Well it looks like I'm needing to pull the shaft.
Although, Panther if what you read is true...I just got another SF D60-2, 30 splined axle.
'74 Wag the D60-2 that I'm inquiring about is in a '66 J3000. It has a tag for the 4.10 gears and is stamped 60-2 atop the housing.
Sooo...since it being a 3K and not 4K...who knows 'til I pull it...huh?

Not that 30 spline is shabby...just not a good selling point...know whatyamean?

Nother rookie question...lets say I was to sell it to a CJ'r. Could he/she upgrade it to a 35 spline? Would anyone want to?

BTW..thanks Dennis for clearing that up for me ;) .

[ December 27, 2002, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: ColeTrickle ]

[tomd]

Originally posted by ColeTrickle:
'74 Wag the D60-2 that I'm inquiring about is in a '66 J3000. It has a tag for the 4.10 gears and is stamped 60-2 atop the housing.I know absolutely nothing about J3000, i thought that would have had a Dana 53, maybe somebody could have swapped it? I don't really know when they changed axles though, just guessing.

30 spline isn't really that great just because, thats what a D44 has, and shafts are about the same size IIRC. The 35 spline has 1.5" shafts which are just plain huge IMHO. You can convert a 30 spline to 35 by getting new shafts, and a new carrier. (I think, i've never done it though)

[ December 27, 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: 74 Wag ]

[tomd]

I found on eBay D60 spindles, looks like 6 bolt to me, just have no idea on spacing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33728&item=1875713604

[ColeTrickle]

Hey '74 Wag...not to get off the subject but what a cool website. Just had time to swing by there. I dig those flatbeds ever since I saw Terry Howe's flatbed in Ouray.
I have a design drawn up. Kinda working thru it. I'm planning on cabinet style side boxes. Not sure if I want them to open upwards or from the side. Anyway's keep it up!

BTW...I'm still all ears.

[tomd]

Not trying to go OT too much, but check these out - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10368&item=1875570727

[tomd]

Here is an interesting custom full floater conversion for an old CJ axle, might have some applicable info - http://vernco.com/id112.htm

[ December 27, 2002, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: 74 Wag ]

[scotty]

well,id be willing to bet that the 60 spindle is much bigger. remember that the hole in the outer knnuckle that the 332x wheel joint must fit thru is waaay bigger than the hole in a 44 outer knuckle,so likey the 6 bolt pattern is larger as well.

i still dont think a 19 spline at one end shaft is a bad idea. remember that a 30 spline 44 shaft necks down to less than 1.31 inches,and a custom shaft is going to be made of superior metal,and not neck down at all less than the 1 5/16. thats only 3/16 less than 1.5 ;) its still going to be stronger than a FF 60 or 44 axlesahft.

another option,tho pricier,would be to use warns conversion drive flanges or lockouts that they use for their full float conversions. they will use the same outer splines as the 44 internal mount hub,and use 30 inner splines,rather than the 44 stubs 19. not sure what diameter the 30 spline shaft would be,tho. i am pretty sure its also a bigger diameter than the 44 stub.

hmmmm...

also,pretty cool link from 74 wag. didja look at the guys "vern o lock"? now THAT is clever...

[Hutcho]

Sorry to dig up an old thread! But whatever happened with this? I have a dana 60-2 and wanna go disk brakes, also have extra dana 44 front that I was hoping to rob parts off to bolt on in the rear. So would the shafts need machine work? Would this be tough enough for mild wheeling? Should I stay with drum brakes? Thanks guys!

[Josh D]

Sorry to dig up an old thread! But whatever happened with this? I have a dana 60-2 and wanna go disk brakes, also have extra dana 44 front that I was hoping to rob parts off to bolt on in the rear. So would the shafts need machine work? Would this be tough enough for mild wheeling? Should I stay with drum brakes? Thanks guys!

I wouldn't think coming up with a disc brake set up would be too hard. Disc hats from a 5X5.5 bolt pattern Dodge, Ford, or IH front D44 + some weld on caliper brackets that work with your favorite flavor of caliper.