I REALLY need help: Wag won't start!

[Thomas DeBusk]

I've been working on this 3 days and thought I had it licked, but I 'm no closer.

This is about my '83 Wag/360. When I turn the key to "Start", dashboard lights come on, but starter doesn't even whimper. No clicks from the starter relay. Radio & clock will dim & come back when I go back to "Run". At first, this was only happening when hot, but today it last started around 4 p.m., and 7 hours later (it's plenty cool now) it still does the same thing.

I've put in another used starter, and then a new starter. I swapped in the ignition module from my '85 J10. I bought a new starter relay and swapped in another set of battery cables. No change at all.

I also tried jumping with another battery, assisting with a charger that has a 50-amp "Engine Start" mode, and using another battery as a substitute. Still same.

One time earlier today it started as I shifted from "Park" into gear, so I was thinking maybe the wires are screwed up in the steering column. That trick wouldn't work again, nor would moving the tilt wheel up and down.

Please, tell me where to look; I'm out of ideas and I had great plans for the Wag this weekend that DIDN'T involve repair!

[This message has been edited by Thomas DeBusk (edited April 20, 2001).]

[outlander]

You may be on to something with the gear shift. There may be a loose or stuck sensor in the trans telling the ignition that it is in gear.

[Kimbrough]

Maybe the neutral safety switch? Try starting it in neutral???

[jeepbob]

the neutran safety switch on the side (drivers) of the tranny is prolly bad or the plug came off the switch. The switch going out is a common thing with 727's

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 tracloc/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/taurus ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[Thomas DeBusk]

OK, I'm reading the Haynes manual about neutral safety switches. Could I have a faulty switch? I just had a shop switch in another used 727 and the problem started right after that. In fact, the shop was out for a test drive when the problem first occurred.

[80wag.Darryl]

I'm with you guys,sounds like netral saftey switch to me to.

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SOA,32x11.50's,3" body lift,Pretty Darn Quick.
"Lead Follow,Or Get The F#%& Out Of The Way" !

[andy d]

it does sound like the switch allright. the one on my 66 valiant went(same trans)i just jumper clipped one of the connectors to ground. BTW that clip was still there when the valiant took the last long ride http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif that would be the way to test the switch iirc

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'88 gwag,pure stock

[Thomas DeBusk]

Still no go.

Neutral safety switch checks out OK on all the continuity tests per my Haynes manual.

Andy, what do you mean by jumper clipping one connector to ground? Do you mean take the harness loose and clip the center connection to the transmission housing?

Also, I just did another experiment. I shorted across the terminals on the starter relay with screwdrivers with the ignition switch in the "On" position. The starter cranked, but I didn't hear it trying to fire. When I took the screwdrivers loose, the starter kept going until I turned the key "Off". Hmmmm.

I guess I'm going into the steering column next, unless I hear otherwise. Looks like my plans for today have been drastically altered. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/frown.gif

[Thomas DeBusk]

Still no good.


I changed out the neutral safety switch with another one I had from a junked vehicle, even though I didn't think it was bad. Still no difference.

I took my 2 ignition modules to the Advance store, to have them checked, and they came out fine.


I took 2 starters to Advance store and had them checked, both were no good. One was the used replacement I just put in 2 days ago. The other was a reconditioned from the store.

So I put in another rebuilt that checked out good. I also put in a new ignition switch. After those last two items, the motor finally started cranking, but wouldn't fire. Several times it cranked in the Start position, but kept cranking even in the Run position until I turned the key back to Off. Then on the first try after that, nothing happened. Then I turned the key back to Off, and immediately back to Start, and it cranked like it should. It acted like an electrical re-set switch. But finally after about a dozen of those tries, the starter quit cranking altogether again.

That's where I am now, exactly right back where I began, no closer to a cure. To refresh: the dash lights come on and dim when the key goes to Start, but there's no cranking. The headlights come on when I pull the switch, but they do not dim. I have a brand new starter relay. Oh, I also replaced the three heavy starter circuit cables.

Now I'm thinking there's a shorted or broken wire somewhere. How do I find that? Or what else should I look for?

[Mike87]

Well you have a really confusing situation there, but I can tell you one of the problems sounded familiar. I was trying to trace a stall condition and did a lot of swapping and replacing.

The thing about the cranking... I thought I remembered replacing the starter solenoid and it would keep cranking in the run position, but I believe that was due to switching the connections on the solenoid. Sorry my memory is not more clear.

Maybe if you had the same thing, you fried your starter?

[Thomas DeBusk]

Confusing? Hah!!!

Where's the solenoid? Is that the teardrop hump on the side of the starter? And how would I fry it? I didn't switch any connections. There's only one cable running to the starter. How could I "switch" that?

I did consider that something in my vehicle is burning up starters, so I'm taking starter #4 back to the store tomorrow to verify that it's still OK.

As for wires running to the starter relay, I don't know how I would've messed them up. The two smaller wires go to 2 terminals labelled "I" and "S". A little rubber crossover runs between the wires, I presume to help keep them straight.

One other funky thing: I tried to short through the relay by connecting the "S" terminal directly to the positive cable terminal. That worked earlier this morning, but hasn't worked since. I can get this starter to spin fine if I short between the two larger terminals, or if I connect the starter to jumper cables while out of the vehicle, but not while in the vehicle.