projection closed-loop system

[SpruceMoose]

i bought a used, analog projection system a couple of months ago and have been running it as-is (open-loop). the adjustments were a pain to do, and although the power and throttle response are tremendous, the gas mileage dropped from 12.5 to 10.5. yeah, i know what the sig says, but since i commute with it, i DO need some stinkin' mileage! anyway, i have been riding gain on the mixture knobs while driving and have gotten a lot of the mileage back, but its a pain too. i just installed a used closed-loop system, and the mixture LED seems to be working just right. the power and response are still great, and i will let you all know about the gas consumption on friday (next fill-up).

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88 Grand Wagoneer
"Spruce Moose"
AMC 360, DANA 44 F/R 2.72, TF 727, NP 229
Jacobs Pro-Street Ignition, Edelbrock 4bbl Intake with Holley 2bbl Analog Pro-Jection
Flowmaster 2.5" 50 Series Delta muffler and tubing
Amzoil foam air filter, Amzoil fluids all around
30x9.5 BFG AT
HF,VHF,UHF ham rigs and too many antennas (not)

Mileage? We don't need no stinkin' mileage!

[wagdriver]

I am anxious to hear your mileage figures. I also have an 88 GW that is stone stock. I am currently running the 2V carb(2150)and get the 10mpg thing.(most of my driving is around town back and forth to work) I have to say that that my wag has never really run bad, it has always run strong and always gotten lousy milage. I have rebuilt the carb once, and thinking about doing it again soon. I have been toying with the FI thing, but if there is no appreciable milage gain, then might as well stick with the carb and tune everthing to the max. I like the thought of the FI system reducing emissions, however if you are still burning gas at 10-12mpg, I don't see that you have gained anything. Just my thoughts, Keep us posted and good luck I am sure all of us will learn from your experiences.

wagdriver

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wagdriver
88 Grand Wagoneer
135k and still going
K&N everything else stock
95 Dodge Ram 2500 360 stone stock

[SpruceMoose]

interim update: i now have one trip to and from work, and one trip home. the gas gauge is just a hair under 1/2. however: since the gauge is VERY non-linear, i usually get from fill-up to one round trip with the needle showing one to two widths above 1/2. after one round trip it was 3 widths above 1/2.
when i got the car i could get 3 round trips on a tank. after setting everything up right i was up to 4 round trips, but really close to empty. if the present trend holds it might be 5 now. btw, 1 round trip = 55 miles. at 20gal per tank thats: 8.25mpg/3days, 11mpg/4days, 13.75mpg/5days.
more to follow.

[wagdriver]

With the wags 20.3 gallon tank, if you are getting close to that 200 mile mark you had best be looking for a gas station. I start hunting as soon as the yellow light shows. It does sound from your post the there is some improvement in your mileage. I would really consider FI for 15mpg. My Ram 2500 gets that running a whole lot faster than you are supposed to on the highway. It just seems that some one should be able to make the 360 get that kind of mileage. It is really such a good engine otherwise. Keep us posted! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif

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wagdriver
88 Grand Wagoneer
135k and still going
K&N everything else stock
95 Dodge Ram 2500 360 stone stock

[SpruceMoose]

thats what ive been thinking. now that it has a modern ignition and fuel system, and high flow exhaust (at least after the cat), i dont see why it shouldnt be equal to the others in its class, except for aerodynamics (cause it dont got none!) i'll let you know.

[bignblue]

When that yellow warning light comes on, how much gas do you have left? On my return trip from Knoxville I got around 230 miles per tank, but I drained it darn near dry.

[SpruceMoose]

seems to be about 2 gallons left when the light comes on. however, while testing and adjusting the fuel injection kit i ran out of gas in the driveway before the light came on, so now i dont wait. i dont know what changed, cause i still am running the low-pressure mechanical pump to feed the high-pressure electric pump in the engine compartment. btw, if the fuel gauge keeps going the way it has been since the closed-loop system installation i might get an extra 30 miles per tank. thats all the way to work and part way home.

wag: there are other small benefits: instant startup and drive-away, no stalling or hesitation, lots of power on demand, just turn the key, put er in drive, and hold on!!! ok, press down on the gas pedal, but gently, or the back wheels hop - really! makes it a whole nuther ride!

[wagdriver]

Ditto on 2 gallons remaining when the yellow light comes on. I don't know how the sensor for the light works but I do know that it is level sensitive. I mean that if you are on an incline in any direction the light will come on and give some what misleading results, when it come on and stays on solid there is usually about 2 gallons. My trip to work is approximately 11 miles, when the light comes on going to work, I had best be getting some gas on the way home http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif if I don't you know what happens next. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/frown.gif

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wagdriver
88 Grand Wagoneer
135k and still going
K&N everything else stock
95 Dodge Ram 2500 360 stone stock

[SpruceMoose]

ok, heres the deal: 3 days of back and forth to work, which consists of 10 min to get to freeway, 20 min on the freeway, and 5 min from freeway to work, with about 10 miles of going out to eat (suburb driving) thrown in. gas mileage: 12.6, almost exactly what i used to get with the 2150 carb. caveats: (ooh! big word!) the warm air duct from the exhaust to the snorkle is not hooked up, and the vacuum operated flapper is closed, thereby letting in only cold outside air (25-40 deg). i know that should give more HP, and the mixture controller will add in more gas to compensate for the colder air, but i am going to hook the stuff up again to keep the inlet air at 70-110 degrees, and lower the amount of gas a little. also, i have no idea how much tire pressure i've got, cause i havnt checked it lately. btw, i run 45psi (when i check)(tires rated 50). the tires have a treadwear rating of 40000mi, which is almost exactly what they have on them right now. they look like i can get at least another year out of them (15000mi).
i will try to fix these things and get more data next week.

later!

[wagdriver]

Well Moose at least you didn't loose any thing, I am sure that a man of your talents and expertise can squeeze a few more mpg! From what I have been reading, FI is not for the faint hearted. I fully understand your explanation about the advantages. I think the TAC air cleaner is a good thing for cold weather starts and until the engine gets warm. When it is cold, it is hard for a carb to be rich enough on cold starts, I think that is the main reason that they put that system on at the factory. As I understand it the ECU measures and calculates the correct amount of fuel for the situation. Congrates on a good job. The old man will be listening!
As a matter of fact congrates to all who tackle this conversion!!!! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/cool.gif
wagdriver


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wagdriver
88 Grand Wagoneer
135k and still going
K&N everything else stock
95 Dodge Ram 2500 360 stone stock

[This message has been edited by wagdriver (edited January 14, 2001).]