agr power steering box danger

[maccj5]

has this happened to anyone? i bought an agr ps box for my 73 cj5 1 23 07 it has not seen any hard wheeling i am running 33's with a 2 inch lift 2 inch body lift, yesterday it quit--- it got almost impossible to steer had a very tough time getting home from work i jacked it up and checked every thing out couldn't find any thing obvious took it off the jacks and started the engine now the wheel goes to right lock without touching the wheel i am not talking about a slow turn. it will rip the wheel out of your hand instantly
and the wheel wont move no matter how hard i try to crank
it. the only way to center the wheels is if i shut the engine off if this had happened while i was driving i wouldnt be around to write this!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sambo]

hoses crossed up some how?

[HOOT]

Did it get dirt or maybe a non-compatible fluid mixed in it.?

Here's a proud HOOT moment: I had my TBird steering react like that once. The system was leaking and I had to do a road trip real quick before I could work on it. I had heard you could put some stop leak stuff in there to help seal it up. So that's what I did. As I was heading out of town, I stopped at an AutoZone. Dumped the stuff in the power steering pump and fired up the car. I was parked there looking at a map. All of a sudden the wheel started moving. Just as I went to grab it it took a turn to full clock one way then started back the other way. It was like it was possessed:eek: . I had to feel like I twisted the shaft in half to get it to work again. I got it a few miles to a Hertz rental place and left it for the weekend. Had I drove off like normal it would of happened as I was driving, most likely would of been on the express way at that point. The stop leak stuff was for a radiator and it clogged up my checkvalve and made the pump go crazy. It all got replaced a couple of weeks later. I tried flushing it out and changing the valve but the pump was dieing anyway.

[Gil]

I need to hear the answer to this as I am about to buy an AGR box for my 1980 Cherokee Chief. My current stock box is seaping and I want a tighter steering feel...I can get a new AGR box for $339 and was about to order it when I saw this thread!!!

[billyrb]

there is either a misrouted line, debris in the system or something else going on. There are thousands upon thousands of these boxes being used on daily drivers without problems. I'm running one myself w/o any issues.

[will e]

No problems with mine. I put it on a few months ago. It's harder to turn than the stock box but that might be because I kept the standard box.

The ARG is basically the same design as a saginaw. There are millions of those out there and steering and brakes are one of the areas that car makers take seriously (lawsuit city).

[Kris]

This is more common than one might think.

The problem is with AGR's quality.
Search on Pirate, too many problems and bad customer service.

(I know you're talking about your box)
I like many went with PSC instead when I needed a pump. Great product, great customer service.
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/

I went with the 1300 series, the 1400 is overkill unless you are going full hydro. It requires a cooler as well, although its a good idea if you are crawling.

Box will be coming when the stock one gives up. Steering improved with the new pump, so Im not really in a hurry...


kris.

[Gil]

This is more common than one might think.

The problem is with AGR's quality.
Search on Pirate, too many problems and bad customer service.

(I know you're talking about your box)
I like many went with PSC instead when I needed a pump. Great product, great customer service.
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/

I went with the 1300 series, the 1400 is overkill unless you are going full hydro. It requires a cooler as well, although its a good idea if you are crawling.

Box will be coming when the stock one gives up. Steering improved with the new pump, so Im not really in a hurry...


kris.

Which PSC steering box will fit an FSJ (four bolts)? I was told AGR was good, but you are paying for the name...then I found an AGR box for $339 and BJs said they would match the price...that's about the price my mechanic quoted me for a reconditioned stock box.

I am in need of a new box. I don't want used, but reconditioned would be fine. I was also told a Camaro box would work well. Also S-10.

So, what's the best new PS box for around $350 for regular driving -- NOT offroad?

[maccj5]

maybe more splainin. the box has been on there for about a year it has never been disconected so the crossed up line bit aint working for me.
it does not leak.on the box or the pump/lines. but like has already been said it has always been a bit stiffer to steer than the original, i am sure it is internal fluid problem ie. like stated internal leakage it just pains me to spend that much money on a super box that isnt very super i am going back to the original box that has been on it for 30 years with no problem i thought i was beefing it up. wheres the beef!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tad]

This is more common than one might think.

The problem is with AGR's quality.
Search on Pirate, too many problems and bad customer service.

(I know you're talking about your box)
I like many went with PSC instead when I needed a pump. Great product, great customer service.
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/

I went with the 1300 series, the 1400 is overkill unless you are going full hydro. It requires a cooler as well, although its a good idea if you are crawling.

Box will be coming when the stock one gives up. Steering improved with the new pump, so Im not really in a hurry...


kris. I agree.
The board has been lacking in search terms (it does not like 3 letter terms unless manually added) like AGR and PSC.
It may take an hour or so for the board to respond correctly.
That's if I did it right.
Other than that it might just crash :thumbsup:

Anywho,
The AGR issues are widely posted.
It's why I went with a J20 box.

[Gil]

I agree.
The board has been lacking in search terms (it does not like 3 letter terms unless manually added) like AGR and PSC.
It may take an hour or so for the board to respond correctly.
That's if I did it right.
Other than that it might just crash :thumbsup:

Anywho,
The AGR issues are widely posted.
It's why I went with a J20 box.

I guess I am lucky my other vehicle needed immediate attention...otherwise I may have already purchased and installed the AGR. I definitely need to do more research. I wanted a new AGR to get the stiffer steering feel vs. the original (plus mine is seeping). But I want ZERO issues and I would rather have sloppy steering than steering me into a tree!:eek:

[Ristow]

it does not leak.on the box or the pump/lines. but like has already been said it has always been a bit stiffer to steer than the original, i am sure it is internal fluid problem ie. like stated internal leakage it just pains me to spend that much money on a super box that isnt very super i am going back to the original box that has been on it for 30 years with no problem i thought i was beefing it up. wheres the beef!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


the leak is internal,not external. it's dumping pressure to one circuit of the gear internally.


your scenario would be enough for me to sever the brand loyalty of a product.

[maccj5]

it did work until this ie no problems other than the stiff feel but when it went out it was worse than manual steering why it didnt do the hard lock to the right while driving home from work i'll never know:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: the only thing i did when i got it on jack stand was take the steering stabilizer off to help check for a manual bind in the front end i did crank the wheel on the stands to center the wheels thats when i started the engine and it went hard lock to the right i tried it again whith my hands on the wheel and it ripped the wheel out of my hands:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Gil]

I agree.
The board has been lacking in search terms (it does not like 3 letter terms unless manually added) like AGR and PSC.
It may take an hour or so for the board to respond correctly.
That's if I did it right.
Other than that it might just crash :thumbsup:

Anywho,
The AGR issues are widely posted.
It's why I went with a J20 box.

Yup...can't search AGR. So, if the issue has been widely posted, has someone come up with a good solution for a new box? I want a new one so I have some time (hopefully) before it seaps like mine -- maybe 28 years :D . Other than mine is seaping, I want a firmer feel...so, any suggestions (with links on where to purchase) would be greatly appreciated.

While I trust BJs Offroad, they won't pay my medical bills if the box sends me into a tree!!

So glad this thread was started. Now we need solutions!!! Or links to solutions already posted on the boards. :drivin: This cartoon is basically the amount of play I get and the constant adjustment I need to make to keep the rig going in a straight line :p

[Gil]

I just e-mailed PSC and asked what box they would recommend for an FSJ. They have GM, Ford, Dodge, and CJ applications...around $400 +. Anyone else hear of these guys?

[maccj5]

i went to pirate 4x4 and heard of agr problems there. also seems like most were getting their stock boxes rebuilt by places they trusted:confused: :confused: have to do more research before i trust someone to wrench on my ps box prolly build my own next time

[Gil]

Hey...Flaming River makes a box for only $572...YIKES.
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=330/category_id=191/home_id=80/mode=prod/prd330.htm

Ok...please explain the different ratios for me? Which one do I want to have a nice, newer vehicle steering feel? 12:1 , 14:1, 16:1, or 17:1 ?

[TPICherokee]

We have sold many AGR's and only had one issue (leaked out of a seal right off the bat).

The next box we are looking at carrying is the GM Delphi 600 unit which I believe is basically an S-10 Box. It is a bolt in unit and it is seen in the bottom right corner here:

http://ww2.borgeson.com/POWER%20STEERING/DIRECT-REPLACEMENTS.html

We are working on some pricing and hope to have this thing around $360-400 or so.

It is a BRAND NEW box and I asked them about the weight of a FSJ and they have run it on some heavy cars and say we would have zero issues with these. They are set up for the Metric fittings (1980-1991). It also has the variable ratio which makes these Jeeps drive very nice.

Gil, you probably want 12:1 as anything higher will give it a quicker ratio and may make a big Jeep seem squirrely. I have also been told to stay away from Flaming River, not necessarily their boxes but the quality compared to a company like Borgeson is sub-par.

Thanks

[Kris]

I agree.
The board has been lacking in search terms (it does not like 3 letter terms unless manually added) like AGR and PSC.
It may take an hour or so for the board to respond correctly.
That's if I did it right.
Other than that it might just crash :thumbsup:

Anywho,
The AGR issues are widely posted.
It's why I went with a J20 box.

I had suggested searching Pirate 4x4.
Their search works for 3 character searches, and the subject is very covered there with all types of vehicles and users.

kris.

[Elliott]

You cain't cross the ps lines up as they have different port/nut sizes;) The problem may not have originated with the box, it could be (since hoses deteriorate and leave crap throughout the system) that crappola circulated and plugged up one side of the valve. I'm not saying they didn't screw up the build... but you might be surprised what you can find inside a pump reservoir can which is why I've recommended using a inline filter on hydroboosted rigs.
If you have old hoses and an old pump you may want to try and flush the system before replacing the box.

[Billygoat]

For a replacement box search this forum for s-10 steering box. Several run them and they are a bolt in - may have hose hose end issues on older rigs, but that is eas to remedy.

[Gil]

For a replacement box search this forum for s-10 steering box. Several run them and they are a bolt in - may have hose hose end issues on older rigs, but that is eas to remedy.

I have heard good things about the S-10 box. BUT, where can I get a new one? I don't want used and question reman units. I WANT NEW!!! Any ideas?

[red mistress]

I've got the AGR with hydraulic steering assist, hydroboost, AGR pump and cooler and have had no problems.

Most people change oil, tranny but not the power steering fluid.

Someone in JP magazine ruined his HB and box on M715 by trash from old system getting spread thru.

I don't trust many rebuilders, but have been to AGR's shop in Fort Worth and they had nice clean place.

If you upgrade then take return line loose, put extension line on into bucket.
And keep dumping in fluid with engine running to flush everything.

I didn't put in a filter, everything was new, but probably shoulda.

[TexTJ209]

I have heard good things about the S-10 box. BUT, where can I get a new one? I don't want used and question reman units. I WANT NEW!!! Any ideas?


A Chevy Dealer? ;)

[maccj5]

i did get a reply from agr and they said if i send it in they would fix it at no charge if its their fault, if they are willing to stand by their boxs i am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until its determined what is wrong with it by the way the hoses were replaced at the same time as the install if crud could get in there and cause this problem there has to be a lot of dead people because of this kind of failure

[Gil]

A Chevy Dealer? ;)

For an S-10...which they don't make any more??? I would be afraid to get a reman box. BUT!!! My father-in-law is a Chevy dealer...I should ask if he has any "old" new boxes.

[Gil]

Just spoke to my father-in-law's Parts Manager. A new S-10/Z28 box would run anywhere from $300-600, depending on year, etc. So, that brings up a question...what year would would I want? I am sure they are similar as the S-10s didn't change much in the 20+ years of production...but the manager needs me to give him the year I want and he can further research price.

[Herk]

The "torsion bar" or reaction spring inside the box has broken. It will not react to your input. It's junk.

Try a used GM box out of a junkyard, or a NAPA reman.

[Gil]

If I go for a reman box from NAPA, Autozone, etc., they will want to know what model and year I want (that's what my father-in-law's parts manager asked too).

I want the feel the AGR box is supposed to give, i.e. a more modern steering feel vs. loose/sloppy steering. So, what model/year should I ask for? S-10, Z-28, etc?

[Herk]

I am running a 75 Z-28 box, which has the earlier flare type fittings. This box has a faster ratio than stock (13-17:1 variable vs. 19:1) and a stiffer reaction spring (more steering effort).

By the early 80's Jeep had gone to the faster ratio but had that "zero effort" super mega overboosted steering. Generally all Saginaw boxes went to metric o-ring fittings by 79.

I'd go looking for a mid 80's F-body (Camaro/Firechicken) box which should have a pretty quick ration but still give you some "feel".

[Flawed]

I had a problem like yours. I had my AGR box for about 3 weeks and lost all power steering to the right. It would turn left from center normally. Anything from center right was worse than not having power steering at all. I sent it back to the company and they told me it was debree in the system and it was my fault and they would not cover it under warantee. When I did the install I replaced the pump, box, lines and resivor. How something got into the system I don't know, I think it was just there way of getting out of fixing it for free. It ended up costing me $200 plus shipping to have them rebuild it again, on a bright note another $50 and they ported it for a ram.

[Sambo]

i did get a reply from agr and they said if i send it in they would fix it at no charge if its their fault, if they are willing to stand by their boxs i am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until its determined what is wrong with it by the way the hoses were replaced at the same time as the install if crud could get in there and cause this problem there has to be a lot of dead people because of this kind of failure
now thats good business right there;)

[Gil]

OK...I am definitely getting scared of AGR.

So, any additional suggestions are welcome...again, I would prefer a new PS box.

[maccj5]

i put the original box in, works great ---think i'll stick with it for now may or may not send agr box back. but its an expensive boat anchor to not get it fixed

[Billygoat]

If I go for a reman box from NAPA, Autozone, etc., they will want to know what model and year I want (that's what my father-in-law's parts manager asked too).

I want the feel the AGR box is supposed to give, i.e. a more modern steering feel vs. loose/sloppy steering. So, what model/year should I ask for? S-10, Z-28, etc?

2000 Z28 box - or the std 4x4 with the 6cyl
IIRC it is 98-02 is the best year range, but then again I don't trust my memory that much.

[Gil]

I was just told 1982-1991 Z28 box. Newer is different steering system (rack & pinion?)