Steering with a front locker.

[trail mule]

I have 37 inch tires on my wagoneer and i want to add a lock rite to the front axle. I only have the stock power steering, but in the future I might be able to go to a ram assist. What have your experiences been with the front locker offroad? Is it really as hard to steer as they say it is?

[billyrb]

yes, it's tough. Especially with 37's. The stock box isn't worth crap for anything over 35's. Yes it will work (as I'm sure folks will tell you), but you really should upgrade the steering.

[misfittom138]

Lockrite and 37s not that hard to steer, but it's not that easy either. I ran that on my TJ. You just gotta get moving a little bit in either direction to turn when bound up. And expect some backing up on tight corners offroad. It's worth the trade off to me, I love being fully locked.

[elbastardo]

The saginaw 800 is as stout as a steering gear can get, I dont know of a steering gear upgrade from that gear. A cooler would probably help, and obviously hydraulic assist will help, but hot oil breaks down.
IMO the advantages outway the disadvantages, but my exprance with a front locker is in my XJ on 33s, not a heavier rig on 37s. Buy the AUSSIE LOCKER then hash out the details later:thumbsup:

[Slick Willie]

My two offers are locked with 34's and locked with 42's. With 34's, it wasn't that hard to turn the tires. I could turn sitting still most of the time (not always, but mostly). The radius was much larger though. With 42's, I can't turn sitting still, and I can barely turn while moving. I have to powerbrake it to get the RPM's up and muscle the crap out of it most of the time, or put it in front wheel only and spin the tires to turn. With 37's, it would be hard to turn, but I bet it would be manageable, depending on your physical fit-ness. If you're small, weak, and feable, you might have problems. :D

[orangecherokee]

Tell your rag joints goodbye before you head out :D

[Stuka]

How hard it is to turn has a LOT to do with wheel choice. If you run back spacing that puts the center of the tire directly under the ball joints, then the tire will not do any 'rolling' when you turn. They simply turn in place. However, if you run wheels that push the tires out some, then the tire has to roll in order tot urn. This is where a locker makes it very hard to turn. The same effect can come from running a wide rim, which will also push the tire out from the centerline of the turn.

[youngjeeper]

How hard it is to turn has a LOT to do with wheel choice. If you run back spacing that puts the center of the tire directly under the ball joints, then the tire will not do any 'rolling' when you turn. They simply turn in place. However, if you run wheels that push the tires out some, then the tire has to roll in order tot urn. This is where a locker makes it very hard to turn. The same effect can come from running a wide rim, which will also push the tire out from the centerline of the turn.

Probably explains why I can't really turn AT ALL. I have 2" spacers on the front. Just welded thee front end with 36" tires..should be an interesting weekend :drivin:

[elbastardo]

Orange has a good point, with a locker your front end is doing double the work it was prior. With my xj 4HI is a thing of the past, with 3.55s or so IIRC and a 4.0 on 33s she just dosent have the power to move 25% more in 4HI in some aplications. But i still think the extra pull is more than worth it, but in my case i did notice a power loss. And the power steering heats up fast, but ill iron that out later:)

[jeepsr4ever]

Almost all 37" tires arent over 14"s wide meaning they shouldnt be much harder to steer for the box than 35" tires which the stock setup will handle just fine as long as your not trapped between two rocks. The lockright, aussielocker or detroit EZlock (IIRC) are awesome up front as far as steering goes. You can wheel around and steer on side hills and going down descents without loosing control like you do when your carrier is welded. Definately worth it offroad!

[trail mule]

Young jeeper be sure to let us know how it steers with the front welded.

[youngjeeper]

Will do! My prediction is alot of 2wd driving and broken front shafts this weekend!

[Michael]

I am running 37's and a aussi locker up front. I have changed over to the agr series 1 box and pump and updated the steering shaft.... Although the steering is better....I find that when I need the steering I do not have it. I went out with Slick Willie a few weeks ago. It was a sob for him to turn. I had a hard time too, but it seemed that he had trouble on everything. Cool thing is all I have to do is unload the little aussi locker, although a challenge and it usually will turn. But once it is locked it can be very hard to free it up. I find myself going into 2wd alot more than I used to. Or I just stay in 2wd unless I need all lockers and 4wd.

I am not sure how much wheel backspacing plays in that.

[AlsChopShop]

stuka has a great point.... your scrub radius plays a huge roll here. the scrub in my toyota (33's, manual steering) is horrible, so it makes turning next to impossible when stopped against rocks. if i went back to stock rims i'd be better off.... but i'll just get power steering instead. :)

stock rims are usually the best bet until you get into a lot bigger tires (36+), then you will want a little less backspacing, but usually not as wide as i see most rigs running.

Al

[shimniok]

All I know is I can barely turn with the ARB engaged up front when on slickrock. I've seen welded front do a number on ujoints. As infrequently as I need a front locker I'm glad I went selectable, otherwise I would've just done without.

[youngjeeper]

OK so I'm back from the ECI with my report on the front welded with NO hydro assist. Turning was nearly impossible and when it was possible, REALLY had to muscle it. Even with some throttle added, turning was bad. I mainly kept my hubs unlocked until I was pointed at an area where I would need the front engaged. Steering was SOMEWHAT better with one hub unlocked, but still a PITA. I will definitly be adding hydro assist in the near future! The added traction was worth the decrease in turning IMO. Although, I think the welded front is what caused my rollover incident. I was in reverse, trying to turn the tires, weren't turning as needed and had a slow flop.

[Desert Rat]

I would strongly consider a selectable locker over a lock rite. The extra money you spend will probably pay for itself in fewer broken parts later.

I have an ARB in the front of my Nissan Frontier (with wag axle). The Nissan box can turn it pretty well, but it turns a lot easier open.

[Bob Barry]

I have it easier with my J-20 box up front, but there are still points where I can only turn the wheel if I'm moving forward or back.

Basically, you'll need a ram if you want to be able to steer at will.

[Serious Johnson]

I have just a wimpy Trac-Lock up front -- hardly even know it's there most of time. But in tight, slick situations like a snowy trail, the dang thing causes so much understeer that I have to shift between 4-Hi & 2WD to get it to turn -- not to muscle the wheel, just to regain traction. I'd say it keeps me from going more places than it helps. Next time I have the thing apart it'll be selectable or open, depending on finances.

S.J.

[JPSwapMohn]

I have just a wimpy Trac-Lock up front -- hardly even know it's there most of time. But in tight, slick situations like a snowy trail, the dang thing causes so much understeer that I have to shift between 4-Hi & 2WD to get it to turn -- not to muscle the wheel, just to regain traction. I'd say it keeps me from going more places than it helps. Next time I have the thing apart it'll be selectable or open, depending on finances.

S.J.


Your situation fits well with what I am trying to figure out. I have the trac-lock up front, running 4.10 gears and 32" tires. I have a rather new S-10 gearbox. I am running the LT1 with the original police cruiser steering pump, etc.

I can handle it, and I like having firm steering, but it really is a pain at low RPM's. Backing into a parking spot often requires putting my coffee down!:o

So, I am not looking to really loosen it up, but was wondering if there was a better GM power steering pump I could swap onto it, or maybe a smaller pulley to get it turning faster at low RPM's? I would like it a little smoother than it is but don't plan on going bigger on tires, etc. and think the hydro is overkill for me.

It has not been high on my priorities with all the other things I have been fighting to get this thing back up to par after sitting for over a year, but it is slowly climbing the list.

Anyone knowledgeable on GM power steering? Other options I am not considering?

[budojeepr]

If you're going to swap pumps and pulleys and add coolers and all that, I just recommend going to hydro-assist. I used the 4Wheel & Off-Road magazine article to guide me (I can hunt up the link if you want) and I took my time drilling and tapping the box. I bought a ram and hoses from West Texas Off-Road and a few bracket pieces from Foothill Offroad, and it only took a Saturday to do the whole job.

After running a few fairly difficult trails with 37's, I'd say that after lockers (selectable, as shimniok says) the hydro-assist is my all-time favorite mod. Do it even before adding lift and tires!

Seriously, it'll make your life much easier. My 2¢...

Brad

[Michael]

I had that article one time. I would like to see it again if you can find it.

[wickedwagon767]

I will definitly be adding hydro assist in the near future!
After hearing yours and Michael's account I'm definetly upgrading my box AND to ram-assist when I swap the welded 60's under my Cherokee, before I hit the trail!

When I have the money later on, I'm going OX or ARB up front.

I had that article one time. I would like to see it again if you can find it.

x2 Brad!