2 cycle engine oil ok to add to gas?

[JNErotten]

I was told that if an engines been sitting for awhile, or just for the hell of it, you can put 2 cycle oil into your gas to help lube the cylynders. Is that oil thin enough not to foul your plugs or make carbon sludge on your valves. Supposed to be better that using marvel. any opinions?

[Don S]

JNErotten.. Over many years I have found that
Quality brands, such as Pennzoil, of TWO cycle outboard oil are made from low ash content oil stocks and have cleaning and anti rust additives and are burn resistant. It will even clean & lube the newest fuel injectors. It lubes gyrator in electric fuel pumps. Carburetor throttle-shafts get lubed (worn shafts can cause problems), Valve stems, and compression rings on the pistons. It’s difficult to oil the compression rings and it’s easy to see the wear (when you remove the head) these rings cause. You’ve also got oil rings scrapping on the cylinder walls but they get oil. A special additive helps prevent and clean out carbon. The carbon can help induce pre-ignition pings and cause dieseling. This style of "upperlube" helps prevent rust in metal fuel tanks and get better fuel mileage (helps keep spark plugs clean). Remember, it's the only oil, even for the rods, used in a two cycle engine because it doesn't easily burn.... To good to be true? NO.. I don't leave home without it!!.. ;) ... ds..

[ June 01, 2002: Message edited by: Don S ]</p>

[PAJEEPER]

I've used mix for emergency gas before in 4 cycles. Never hurt aything, how much do you add and how frequently Don?

[JNErotten]

Cool, I figured as much. I just wasn't sure if 2 cycles burned hotter so that would be what would keep the plugs from fouling. Other than that, the idea sounds great. Guess thoses Cali guys might not want to go for an emmisions test right after adding though, but who knows LOL Also tried that barrymans can of cleaner in my crank case before changing my oil. This was on my dart, so I could see it hit the rocker arms. Instantly (just like the spray) took away all the black and I can see the actuall numbering on the rocker arm guide now. Weird, wonder what else it did, sure runs great now.

[Don S]

PAJEEPER..
I normally use 1/8 of a pint or so per 20 gal. tank full under 2,000 ft. of altitude. Above 8,000 of altitude I’ll use 1/2 of a pint per 20 gal. tank full to keep my spark plugs from fouling with carbon. Some times if I forget and my plugs foul..I put the whole pint in.. About 50 miles later we're tunning great again.. :D ..ds..

[Mike D]

Originally posted by Don S:
JNErotten.. Over many years I have found that
Quality brands, such as Pennzoil, of TWO cycle outboard oil are made from low ash content oil stocks and have cleaning and anti rust additives and are burn resistant. It will even clean & lube the newest fuel injectors. It lubes gyrator in electric fuel pumps. Carburetor throttle-shafts get lubed (worn shafts can cause problems), Valve stems, and compression rings on the pistons. It’s difficult to oil the compression rings and it’s easy to see the wear (when you remove the head) these rings cause. You’ve also got oil rings scrapping on the cylinder walls but they get oil. A special additive helps prevent and clean out carbon. The carbon can help induce pre-ignition pings and cause dieseling. This style of "upperlube" helps prevent rust in metal fuel tanks and get better fuel mileage (helps keep spark plugs clean). Remember, it's the only oil, even for the rods, used in a two cycle engine because it doesn't easily burn.... To good to be true? NO.. I don't leave home without it!!.. ;) ... ds..Im going to use this as i dont have a leaded fuel source anymore...besides the additives...i have a well running 230 Tornado(64) and id like to know what is a good mix for that type of aplication????

I just used a whole bottle in it this saturday..because i couldnt remember what the mix was....and the bottle didnt go up to 15 gallons either..... lol, but no smoke...so its all good, just would like to know what you all are using an dhow much per gallon

WHOOO HOOOOOOooooooo

[RustyJeep]

Because of this site, I told my brother to use ashless 2-cycle oil in his turbo Eagle Talon. It has 135,000 miles on it, and it used to have a nice tick to the top end when running. Especially after running at 120 mph ;) . Ever since he started using the 2-cycle oil in his gas, the tick hasn't been there. Call it coincidence or whatnot, but it's gone, and nothing else has changed. Man that car is fast. :D

[ November 18, 2002, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: RustyJeep ]

[La Wagoneer]

The only thing to remember is not to use to much as the oil displaces gas in the mix and leans out the motor. TO much oil without re-jetting the carb and you will feel the difference in you wallet as you rebuild the engine. I learnd this the hard way racing motorcycles years ago. I guess with the concentrations mentioned above there would be no problems but be carful anytime you lean out the mixture you risk putting holes in pistons (lesson learned well, at least top ends on bikes aren't to hard to re-build)

[BRANDON217]

so you guys add it to every tank? do yall recomend doing this for rebuilt motors? mine has recently been rebuilt; 1500 miles so far just wondering if it will make mine go the extra mile.

[HeepofaJeep]

What about dirtbike racing oil? I have a bunch of Bill Ray's Racing oil that I use for my dirtbike. Or how about Golden Spectrum?

[crazyguy]

I can't believe this actually became a series thread. never heard of doing this before

[PAJEEPER]

Originally posted by aheepofajeep:
What about dirtbike racing oil? I have a bunch of Bill Ray's Racing oil that I use for my dirtbike. Or how about Golden Spectrum?Yeah those should work fine, the synthetics. I dont know how castor(bean oil)would work though. The 2 cycle oil thing make sence to me those little motors crank some high RPM's and thats all the oil they get in the fuel.

[mark j]

Because of this and other threads like it I have been running two cycle oil in my gas now for about the last 1K miles or so. Seems to help. But, I may have been adding too much- thanks for the heads up on the leaning effects and predetonation risks.

[Don S]

Originally posted by crazyguy:
I can't believe this actually became a series thread. never heard of doing this before..
crazyguy:...
.”..eh..?”.. :D :D I’ve been using upper-lubes for over 50 years and will continue until they pry the bottle out of my cold dead hand…!!! :eek:

FUEL TANK ADDITIVES
http://groups.msn.com/ATexasOklahomaJeepClub/ouraycotopic.msnw

Good luck and ;) CUL… ds..

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[curt]

Are you guys pulling our legs? I'm with crazy - never heard of this but heck, you got me going. I'll give it a try in my 1970 buick 350 gladiator and see what she does...

[jeepjake]

Since retiring from motorcycle roadracing (not without having xrays that now look like the bionic man!), I've really missed the smell of Blendzall, so now I use it in the Jeep and love it even more!

[Mike D]

Originally posted by crazyguy:
I can't believe this actually became a series thread. never heard of doing this beforeI started because there is no longer a source for leaded fule in Wa, ST......and i dont like lead additives....soooo i seen this a while ago....glad i could find the post,........

With no lead...the valves get hammered...and my 230 in the 64 Wagoneer...runs fine, not a single cylender under 135lbs of compression!!!!

Im using the oil...on the first tank...and looks like im going to use Out Board motor oil next time ...... not sure if i want the oil to burn...but i REALLY want it to save the valves...not sure if there is a benefit for the compression rings......BUT if it does, its all good.

lol

[Mike D]

Up date...

Iv been using the 2cycle ashless marine...and iv noticed that it is more smouth running...... like running a higher octane.....probably because of getting rid of the carbon build up ...id think.

So far i like it.

[andy d]

i dont understand the oil causing a lean condition in 2 cycles. ive had a stihl 041 farmboss for 25 yrs. i have always used a can of oil per 2gal of gas.40:1 stihl reccomends 50:1. runs fine. am i killing it with kindness?

[Mike D]

U got me too......but im not putting in a gallon to 15...he he...ok

But as a comparrison....a complete bottle of lead additive(wich is illeagle in Wa st for street) 8 bones for each tank....bottle of 2cyc oil...using over 8 fills at the pump......12$$/8=ohhh look cheaper.

Mabey even better for the motor too..........

[PAJEEPER]

Originally posted by andy d:
i dont understand the oil causing a lean condition in 2 cycles. ive had a stihl 041 farmboss for 25 yrs. i have always used a can of oil per 2gal of gas.40:1 stihl reccomends 50:1. runs fine. am i killing it with kindness?Andy,
I'll tell you this has been debated over and over on chain saw oil on other sites I frequent. Some say that it leans out the mixture because it dilutes the gas. I can't see much effect of that if you have your mixtures set right. I've always thought that more oil was a good thing since this is the only oil its getting. I run 32:1 in all my 2 cycles and they are set just right. Never had one problem. Some say run less oil to keep from fouling plugs gumming the engine up I say if the mixture screws are set right you wont have a problem. Too lean a mixture setting no matter what ratio will kill it quick.

Anyway It shouldnt bother a 4 cycle at all to put a little of this oil in once and a while.

[ November 27, 2002, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: PAJEEPER ]

[kong]

So does this two cycle oil work the same for folks with FI?

[Don S]

Originally posted by kong:
So does this two cycle oil work the same for folks with FI?..
kong:... Some types of fuel injectors are subject to carbon build up and all need lubrication.
... I have used Pennzoil 2 cycle Out Board oil in five very late model cars. I used half the amount that I use in my FSJ. In three of the cars the oil lubricated some fouled injectors and the cars then ran better and got better fuel mileage.

... I talked to two chemical engineers and they said the oil I mixed in the fuel would not foul the catalytic converter. Check the link…
CARBON & FUEL ADDITIVES
http://groups.msn.com/JEEPTECH101/jeeptech.msnw

It works for me… ;) CUL… ds..
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[andy d]

to keep the thread going, Don S you use the oil in a f/i car with a cat? about an oz. to 20 gal gas? carbon can be a problem in the bmws i drive, though none of them ping. hmmn

[Dan]

Learn something new everday. I have some 2 cycle oil in the garage that I have no use for now that all my small engines are 4-cycle and don't use the mix. Now I guess I know what to do with it.

[buggy boy]

I've been using marvel mystery oil in mine. Should i change over to 2-cycle and would i c a difference? I have this tick on the passenger side lifter and i am wonder if it will help it. It is bad when i first start it when it is about 20 degrees out and after about a few seconds it quiet down.

[Don S]

Originally posted by andy d:
to keep the thread going, Don S you use the oil in a f/i car with a cat? about an oz. to 20 gal gas? carbon can be a problem in the bmws i drive, though none of them ping. hmmn..
andy d:... Wow! Beguining to think I need 'stock' in some oil conpany.. :D

... Cars that I personally know of that have used the OB 2Cycle oil in the last 10 years are... 66 Rambler 6 .. 66 Nova 6 .. 76 Datsun PU .. 76 Wagoneer 401 .. 81 Wagoneer 360 .. 84 Toyota I-6 .. 95 Quest .. 95 Nissan V-6 PU .. 99 Frontier V-6 .. 99 4.7 WJ .. 01 Sentra .. PLUS Michael said he like it in his Wagoneer.
Hummmmmm …… It may not work in a German car.. tongue.gif . Haven’t tried it

... I talked to two chemical engineers and they said the oil I mixed in the fuel would not foul the catalytic converter. Check the link…
CARBON & FUEL ADDITIVES
http://groups.msn.com/JEEPTECH101/jeeptech.msnw

Good Luck… ;) and
CUL… ds..
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[andy d]

the bmws have a bosch tbi setup. pretty widespread thru out autodom. mustangs use it. other than o-rings i have had to do nothing to the system. i m gonna try the wag 1st.

[Dan G]

Now I know what to do with my left over marine gas at 50:1!!

[Mike D]

I put it in the truck today...it has a 283chevy in it.....and it does get fouled from time to time...time to see if it helps there too....9.5:1 compression there......

[Don S]

Originally posted by buggy boy:
I've been using marvel mystery oil in mine. Should i change over to 2-cycle and would i c a difference? I have this tick on the passenger side lifter and i am wonder if it will help it. It is bad when i first start it when it is about 20 degrees out and after about a few seconds it quiet down...
buggy boy:...
... If that lifter noise is caused by a sticking valve then the Out Board 2 Cycle oil could help. A lot of people on this board use Marvel for different purposes and with some good luck.
… As to the quality of MMO and its ash content, the last time I checked was about ten years ago, I would just say if you don’t like Pennzoil Brand the Valvolene is very good quality and I have used it. I have no idea about the quality of the other brands but it does make a difference.

… Could we hear if any of the chain-saw guys are using MMO in place of 2 cycle oil?

Good Luck… and ;) CUL… ds..
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[Ernzo]

Don S. is on target with his suggestions. Be carefull not to dump in too much like I did.... but it is a great additive and inexpensive.

Look, kerosene, disel fuel and water are other additives used for various purposes. Why not a high quality, light oil designed for burning??

[JINGA]

Originally posted by BRANDON217:
so you guys add it to every tank? do yall recomend doing this for rebuilt motors? mine has recently been rebuilt; 1500 miles so far just wondering if it will make mine go the extra mile.I'm wondering too.

Anyone?

JINGA

[Don S]

Originally posted by JINGA:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BRANDON217:
so you guys add it to every tank? do yall recomend doing this for rebuilt motors? mine has recently been rebuilt; 1500 miles so far just wondering if it will make mine go the extra mile.I'm wondering too.

Anyone?

JINGA</font>[/QUOTE]..
JINGA:...
… Normally aspirated vehicles can use about 1/8 of a pint or so per 20 gallons under 2,000 ft. of altitude. Above 9,000 feet altitude the use ½ of a pint per 20 gallons to help keep the spark plugs from fouling with carbon. If the engine has a carbon problem and it has not been using the upper lube add one pint to 20 gallons of fuel.
… Fuel Injected Normally do not need as strong a mix. Half of the above mix is recommended.
... New or renewed engines should not use upper lubes for about 2000 miles to allow the rings to properly run in.

CARBON & FUEL ADDITIVES
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It works for me ;) … CUL… ds..
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[JINGA]

Sorry Don, I'm just thick headed today.

Are you saying:

"Yes, do it every tank."

?

Thanks.

[Don S]

Originally posted by JINGA:
Sorry Don,

Are you saying:

"Yes, do it every tank."

?

Thanks..
JINGA:... :cool: yes...
I try to use the oil in every tank but if miss one or two fill-ups at low altitude it doesn’t seem to hurt because there will be a little oil still mixed the remaining gasoline. At 13,000 feet will miss it in a hurry…
... I have not tested this system of using upper-lube in an engine with a bad oil consumption problem. On the good side perhaps the use of upper-lube has prevented my vehicles from becoming ‘oil burners'.. :eek:
Good luck :cool: and CUL… ds..
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[Mike D]

time to refresh....its working great in my 230 tornado..helped ALOT

[Elliott]

MikeD... to convert the head for unleaded gas you just replace the valve seats and put in bronze guides.
I ran golden spectrum in my ported Stihl chainsaw and oh boy does it humm!
I dump mower and saw gas in my truck when I run out of beer money and never had a problem with anything other than an odd smell (from my truck).

[SJ Edge]

I just picked up a quart of Mobil 1 Synthetic 2-Cycle oil. Will that work? It says "very low ash content."

What would the difference be between synth and fossil in this case?

[Don S]

Originally posted by SJ Edge:
I just picked up a quart of Mobil 1 Synthetic 2-Cycle oil. Will that work? It says "very low ash content."

What would the difference be between synth and fossil in this case?..
SJ Edge:...
I could only make a guess and would think it would be OK. Give it a try for a couple of years and let us know. Then you will be come our synthetic Guru… :cool: ...
Good luck and ;) … CUL.. ds..
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[Mike D]

Originally posted by Elliott:
MikeD... to convert the head for unleaded gas you just replace the valve seats and put in bronze guides.
I ran golden spectrum in my ported Stihl chainsaw and oh boy does it humm!
I dump mower and saw gas in my truck when I run out of beer money and never had a problem with anything other than an odd smell (from my truck).Would i need to remove the head for that.... and do you know if i can get it/them for a 230 Tornado(64)

[Elliott]

MikeD.... valve seats and guides for the 230 are very likely the same size as something else that has been in production, call a decent machine shop and ask them to see if they can order something for you. You will also want to add valve stem seals to your head, from what I've heard lots of oil ran down the old heads that way as if they even used seals back in '64 they didn't do the job that today's seals will.
Yes you will have to pull the head, so it's probably not worth the trouble until you are ready for a rebuild.
I converted my old '67 Triumph TR4A this way, even found stellite coated exhaust valves for it!
You should be able to locate the right parts if you can find the right shop that knows what they're doing.... I would think that if they can't find your parts that you probably don't want them working on your head anyway. JMHO