3/4 ellipse suspension; dual alternators

[WillyPete]

has anyone ever tried a 3/4 ellipse suspension on a wag? is there a harness available for dual alternators? i saw a 3/4 wrangler last night, and bells and whistles started to go off in my head immediately.

------------------
"Sugar Magnolia" '86 Grand Wagoneer 235/75R15 Wrangler AT/Rs, np229 x-case, bone stock otherwise

[Bahamut]

why dual alts? you can get a 300amp from mean green

------------------
The Beast
1975 Jeep Wagoneer
Bald Tires
Old 360 4v
TFI Stage 1
TH400
BWQT W/Reduction unit non working custom shifter
Slightly Saggin Springs
Good Sound system
my web page (http://www.geocities.com/bahamut_master/index.html)


If ya break it slap it with a welder and see if that works

[scotty]

im thinkin of dual alts,too. reason being is i can 2 63 amp gm alternators fot 21.99 each,with lifetiem warranties. also,if one goes out,im better off with 1 63 amp than 1 dead 300 amp.

cost comparo-how much does the mean green cost? 2 gm for less than 50 bucks...

guess it depends how ya use it,too. ive got mine in mud so much,it seems i take one back every couple months or more(my warranty page at the Zone is reaaal long http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif ). would hate to hafta be doin that with high dollar mean green alternators.

i figure 120 amps would fullfil my lighting and electric fan needs just peachy,dont think i really need an expensive 300 amp mean green.

ur thots?

on 3/4 elliptic suspension,im planin on it someday.prolly not until next year. allready have enuff to do with engine/tranny/xfer swap,pto and winch,and roll cage,along with the other little stuff.

it doesnt look like it really will be too tough. just move the front ount under the frame rail,and find a piece of spring to attach to the other end of the shackle and frame. move perches inboard 4 or 5 inches per side.will let you know more next year when i get into it http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO, swap very soon
widetrac offset dana 44s with clearanced center sections and rear discs very soon
BIG tow truck PTO winch and full roll cage install shortly thereafter
4.0 aquired-4.5L stroker someday...

now we can do some 'wheelin!

[Gladi8r]

I'm not familiar with this 3/4 ellipse suspension. Can someone point me in the right direction on this? What is the advantages/disadvantages? Any pics?

Curiosity is killin' me !!

------------------
DON

1988 GW mostly stock, <---Wifey's truck (won't let me "fix it up")

1971 J-4000,Rhino Grille(to be installed)
360 CID 2v, 245 HP, 365 ft/lb
T-18A, Dana 20, PTO, DANA 44 (Front/Rear)
71 Gladiator Pics (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/gladi8r1971?d&.flabel=fld2&.src=bc)

78 GW (parts truck)
360 4v Th400
Dana 44 F/R
78 Wagoneer Pics (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/gladi8r1971?d&.flabel=fld3&.src=bc)

[jeepbob]

3/4 eliptical suspension will give you a lot more flex, but is it really necessary? It also wuold be very unstable on the road. It does sound like a good way to break parts and stuff a tire under a rock.

------------------
65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 tracloc/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/taurus ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[scotty]

prolly will make it alittle more unstable,bt mine is not really for the road anyway. i like trails that get me really twisted up sometimes. it flexes pretty good now,and it is debateable how useful the extra drop would be.

neccessary? not really... but it would definately be cool! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO, swap very soon
widetrac offset dana 44s with clearanced center sections and rear discs very soon
BIG tow truck PTO winch and full roll cage install shortly thereafter
4.0 aquired-4.5L stroker someday...

now we can do some 'wheelin!

[archiele]

Why not modify a coil conversion kit for a YJ to work on your rig? The cool factor would still be there, and you would have a very stable/ cushy ride. BTW, coil conversions are now available for Samurai's, and are claimed to have 40 inches of articulation out of the box! Imagine being able to articulate over all of those annoying little honda-I-wanna-be-like-every-other-honda-wanna-be's.

------------------
1965 Wagoneer
230 Tornado
'88 Zuki Black 'D' style wheels 'BODYWORK BY ROCK'
'75 Mercedes-Benz (wifies resto project)
http://homepage.mac.com/archiele/

[WillyPete]

gladi8r:

a 3/4 ellipse suspension works like this:

picture a leaf spring pack: now take off the main leaf (the one with the shackle mounts). cut this leaf behind the point where the ubolts to hold it to the axle go. now get specially bent square shaped u-bolts. bolt the half leaf to your frame with the square u-bolts. now attach the shackle to this leaf and to your regular leaf pack.

you now have a rear spring package with MAD flex.

------------------
"Sugar Magnolia" '86 Grand Wagoneer 235/75R15 Wrangler AT/Rs, np229 x-case, bone stock otherwise

[newbie]

a 3/4 ellipse suspension works like this:

picture a leaf spring pack: now take off the main leaf (the one with the shackle mounts). cut this leaf behind the point where the ubolts to hold it to the axle go. now get specially bent square shaped u-bolts. bolt the half leaf to your frame with the square u-bolts. now attach the shackle to this leaf and to your regular leaf pack.

Exactly, you would have to move the springs inward a few inches, so that they'd fit under the framerail, which would mean moving the front spring mount underneath the frame, but this type of suspension would give you a rear shackle flip, plus killer droop. I'm working on some plans for a 3/4 elliptical suspension, and trying to figure out on paper what will work and what won't, so as soon as I come up with something, I'll post it!

I'll keep ya posted!
Newbie

[tuck]

I've seen it done on a J-10
He threw the springs under the frame and added the 3/4 ellip. setup and some honkin' big shackles. It flexes really well, and he says it drives fine on the road.
I think inboarding the springs is definitely a good idea, and 3/4 can work if you really need the flex.

------------------
Drive it like you stole it

[newbie]

Yeah, and if saftey is an issue, you can always put square "U" bolts towards the end of the 1/4 spring to keep it snug to the frame. In this way, it would act just like a shackle bracket, except when you are off-road, you can unbolt the U bolt and have mega flex! (also forgot to mention, this 3/4 elliptical setup would possibly require moving the gas tank like River Beast has done)

Peace,
Newbie (double stars!)

[This message has been edited by newbie (edited April 30, 2001).]

[WillyPete]

i believe you're right about the gas tank, newbie. i hadn't thought of that. durn. maybe a smaller gas tank on the driver's side, and a 20 gallon XJ or ZJ/WJ tank where the spare normally goes...

------------------
"Sugar Magnolia" '86 Grand Wagoneer 235/75R15 Wrangler AT/Rs, np229 x-case, bone stock otherwise

[newbie]

Here's a picture of a 3/4 elliptical on a CJ http://www.off-road.com/jeep/reviews/3_4elliptical/DCP00536.JPG Could you imagine the sick amount of droop you'd get with a 3/4 elliptical and revolver shackles??? (I would seriously doubt the safetyness of such a setup, but just think about it!)

hope this helps!
~newbie

[This message has been edited by newbie (edited April 30, 2001).]

[Panther]

I have seen a few 3/4 set ups but none on FSJ but I like the idea. I saw a scrambler with the longer rear springs that are like 56" long or so with a center bolt that moves the axle forward on the spring (same as FSJ but can't remember where the spring was from). The "buggy" 3/4 spring was also very long but no quite 1/3 of the length the 56" spring. On a CJ7, like the one in the pic, the shackle does not lay flush with the frame so the buggy does not provide as much travel as it would on the longer scrambler or FSJ. My friend did one on a YJ when this was the (SWB) craze last year and removed it because of too much off road wheel hop. He's putting it back on this year but this time with the "U" bolt brace mentioned. This was more of an issue off road than on (but may not be not as much of an issue factoring the weight of the FSJ). Depending on the type of trail, he will either remove the brace or keep it.

Anyway, I think this with be a great rear option with a SOA front. Again, you'd have to move the spring hanger underneath the frame and then locate the 3/4 buggy. Another thing to keep in mind is that a thicker more stout main leaf spring should be used for added strength. Also, no one really talks about the fact that the distance of the spring on the axle contributes to added wheel ravel and flex. When doing this you're moving the springs closer in on the axle and the wider the spring on the axle, the less the wheel travel and flex. This is why the CJ has a slight advantage over the YJ because the frame is narrower and the springs are closer together. The spring has to do less work to obtain up and down axle movement.

Hope I'm making sense, I just really am liking the idea of the front SOA and rear springs under the frame with 3/4 elliptical. Someone go for it so we can see the proof in the pudding http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

[newbie]

....and with rusty's offroad doing the front shackle reversal buggy springs on the front is a possibility too!

[WillyPete]

so what we're going to end up doing here is having an FSJ with more flex than a hungarian gymnast http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif

hehe. talk about "saggin' wagon"

------------------
"Sugar Magnolia" '86 Grand Wagoneer 235/75R15 Wrangler AT/Rs, np229 x-case, bone stock otherwise

[newbie]

Willy Pete,

Yup, and as soon as I take the proper measurements and firm up my design, I'll email it to ya! (probably take a couple weeks to do it right)