R44044 Leaf Spring Info

[jepj2000]

I getting all the parts ready for my 1-ton swap on my J10 which will include 63" Chevy springs under the frame in the rear. I'm considering the Rancho R44044 springs for the front to match the ride hight and am looking for some info.

1. Where's the cheapest place to purchase them?

2. It seems there is a common problem with the main leaf bending, will a stock FSJ main leaf swapped in be stronger? What is a better/best solution if not?

3. How much of the ride hight can I expect to loose with them sagging, I hear they sag pretty good?

4. Is there a better 2"-2.5" lift leaf spring for my application?

Any information and experience running these leaf springs would be great.

Thanks,
Rankin

[j20brett]

they flex like mad and ride pretty well. and as you have stated bend the mainleaf quite easily as i found out. To fix this problem, all you would need to do is a shackle reversal. That way it will put all the force on the spring in tension instead of compression, which is why they bend.

[TPICherokee]

We can get those springs, let me know what kind of prices you find and I'll see if I can beat them. Thanks!

[jepj2000]

they flex like mad and ride pretty well. and as you have stated bend the mainleaf quite easily as i found out. To fix this problem, all you would need to do is a shackle reversal. That way it will put all the force on the spring in tension instead of compression, which is why they bend.

Yeah I'm not sure if I want to do shackle reversal, I think the shackle in the front is better for rock crawling and I don't want to have to run a long travel driveshaft if I don't have to as I'm trying to keep it as low budget as possible. I guess if it came down to that I could run a square driveshaft which is the best of both worlds so to speek.

Where did you get your springs and how much did you pay for them if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks for the info.
Rankin

[jepj2000]

We can get those springs, let me know what kind of prices you find and I'll see if I can beat them. Thanks!

Yeah thanks for the offer, I'll let you know what I can find. My only concern would be the shipping, could be a little pricey.

Thanks,
Rankin

[Tad]

2. It seems there is a common problem with the main leaf bending, will a stock FSJ main leaf swapped in be stronger? What is a better/best solution if not? Rankin,
I have a set here and have read all the same things (for me it means moving hangers also). I would like to hear/see pic's too.
Mine were used from the same SAS Yoda guy I got my 63's from, they have seen little use and look fine, as of now.
I was pondering chopping the eyes off a FSJ front main and adding it to the pack keeping the 44044 eyes, not sure if this is a good plan or not.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RAN%2DRS44044&N=700+4294902526+115&autoview=sku
Summit's price has gone up about $25 per spring in the last 2 years.

[blt2krl]

I have run mine for 3 years and have never had one of the main leafs bend. Never had any problems other than the normal spring sag.

[jepj2000]

Rankin,
I have a set here and have read all the same things (for me it means moving hangers also). I would like to hear/see pic's too.
Mine were used from the same SAS Yoda guy I got my 63's from, they have seen little use and look fine, as of now.
I was pondering chopping the eyes off a FSJ front main and adding it to the pack keeping the 44044 eyes, not sure if this is a good plan or not.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RAN%2DRS44044&N=700+4294902526+115&autoview=sku
Summit's price has gone up about $25 per spring in the last 2 years.

Thanks for the link Tad, with shipping 2 springs came out to be $330.73. I sure would rather find a good used set to save on the $$$$ and hopefully won't have to ship them either even though S&H was only like $25.

Thanks,
Rankin

[jepj2000]

I have run mine for 3 years and have never had one of the main leafs bend. Never had any problems other than the normal spring sag.

How much would you say your springs have sagged?

Thanks,
Rankin

[ncjeepers]

I recently got a pair from Summit.
I'll let you know how they work out.

[jepj2000]

I recently got a pair from Summit.
I'll let you know how they work out.

What kind of setup are you going to be running them with?

Rankin

[j20brett]

i got mine from crazyjeepman for the ridiculously low amout of $200 shipped to my door. :thumbsup:

I know i will need a new mainleaf eventually, but im just gonna press it back flat for the time being.

[Desert Beast]

i ran mine for one trip and bent a main leaf. and im real easy on my rig. ;)

but they did flex great and i would run them if they would work for my application.

[jepj2000]

i ran mine for one trip and bent a main leaf. and im real easy on my rig. ;)

but they did flex great and i would run them if they would work for my application.

Yeah I've read some stories on how easy you are on your rig:thumbsup:! Glad to know that even with you bending them on your 1st run, you would still run them again.

Thanks,
Rankin

[ncjeepers]

What kind of setup are you going to be running them with?

Rankin

They're going under a '75 Chero on CUCV's and 38's.
I have an idea to combat the bending problem (which is common with the stock springs, too). More info to follow.

[jepj2000]

They're going under a '75 Chero on CUCV's and 38's.
I have an idea to combat the bending problem (which is common with the stock springs, too). More info to follow.

I think I know which one you're talking about, is it tan and on 38" michelin military tires?

Rankin

[blt2krl]

How much would you say your springs have sagged?

Thanks,
Rankin

I would say about an inch. This will happen with a flexy suspension. My suspension cycles from negative arch to full droop frequently. I think bump stops woul slow this down.

[ncjeepers]

I think I know which one you're talking about, is it tan and on 38" michelin military tires?

Rankin

Yup, that's the one, only slightly dis-com-bob-ulated right now.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/bullgearinc/pic0042-2.jpg
I'm redoing a lot of the PO's "handi-work" (no, I didn't misspell that).
It should be back in action in a week or two with new suspension, new steering, and 4-wheel discs.
To combat this (pic courtesy j20brett)...
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/katemcy%20feb%202008/DSC00249.jpg
...I'm adding an extra spring clamp at the fixed eye end to loosely hold the main and 2nd leaves together. I'll post a pic when I get it together.

[jepj2000]

Thanks for the info, and I'm excited to see how it all comes together for you.

Rankin

[Tad]

Nice Info Tony.

I'm sure you saw this.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/FrontSpringRepair/05reallybent.jpg

Fixed with a replacement main spring and these clamps.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/FrontSpringRepair/springclips.jpg

Elliott provided the part numbers originally.
I found them local:
AZ Spring Company
Part # 2143
Description: clip/KK 2.50 w/KKL
Price: $2.16 each
I carry spares just in case from now on.

[ncjeepers]

Those are exactly what I ended up using. I was hoping the spring shop could come up with something a little more heavy duty but that'll have to do.

Another observation... the 44044's are too short. As can be seen in the pic below, the stock shackle (foreground) is in danger of inverting (pivoting towards the rear) which would definitely bend the spring. I plan to use a Chevy shackle (background) which is about 1" longer and should help prevent this. Is anyone aware of a heavy duty aftermarket shackle like that?

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/bullgearinc/pic0362.jpg

[Tad]

Is anyone aware of a heavy duty aftermarket shackle like that? Not yet, but I have been running the GM rear shackles up front for 2 years now without any issues.

I was playing around with 2 different sets of aftermarket shackles last night.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/TechPics/shacklepics/which3.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/TechPics/shacklepics/which4.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/TechPics/shacklepics/which5.jpg

I don't like either set for a front SOA application, although I do like the Silver ones with the larger steel bushing, the inner web and grease zerk.

We need to find some with that sort of beef but closer to the same length as the GM ones.
Either that or someone needs to start making them.

[jepj2000]

Tad what 2 brands are you experimenting with?

I was thinking about these, but they look like the silver ones you have.

http://www.diy4x.com/suspension.htm

UDSR Shackle

GM Factory style shackles. Designed to fit a 2.5" wide spring. Comes complete with Greasable poly bushings and sleeves.
These are available in 4,5,6 and 7" lengths.
3/8" thick sides, 5/16" center gusset and a 2" x .25" wl. DOM bushing. Fully welded and ready for abuse.


What have you found wrong with both of the shackles you have been testing?

Rankin

[Tad]

Tad what 2 brands are you experimenting with?

I was thinking about these, but they look like the silver ones you have.

http://www.diy4x.com/suspension.htm

UDSR Shackle

GM Factory style shackles. Designed to fit a 2.5" wide spring. Comes complete with Greasable poly bushings and sleeves.
These are available in 4,5,6 and 7" lengths.
3/8" thick sides, 5/16" center gusset and a 2" x .25" wl. DOM bushing. Fully welded and ready for abuse.


What have you found wrong with both of the shackles you have been testing?

Rankin
They all came from parts trades so I can't truthfully say I know who made them. I've had the silver ones for a few years and just noticed the bolt holes are plasma cut, that leaves a taper with a rough edge that will scar the bolt, the others have oversized bolt holes, I have not indexed them for exact size but they are way sloppy with a 9/16" bolt inserted.
I may try to redrill them at the GM length with the proper size hole.

[ncjeepers]

Thanks for the tip. I wasn't aware of that vendor. He has some nice stuff and those 4" shackles fit the bill.

I have several sets of those extended shackles removed from the front ends of various vehicles. I'll check to see if I can cut down one of those sets. As Tad's pics show, some styles cannot be shortened.

[69 Gladiator]

Not yet, but I have been running the GM rear shackles up front for 2 years now without any issues.

I was playing around with 2 different sets of aftermarket shackles last night.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/TechPics/shacklepics/which3.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/TechPics/shacklepics/which4.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/TechPics/shacklepics/which5.jpg

I don't like either set for a front SOA application, although I do like the Silver ones with the larger steel bushing, the inner web and grease zerk.

We need to find some with that sort of beef but closer to the same length as the GM ones.
Either that or someone needs to start making them.

Now that's what I'm talking about. Work on that mug right at the kitchen sink :thumbsup:. Spending all the dough on JTruck parts, not beer . J/K.

This may have already been covered and I missed it, tell me again why it you don't use the shackle reversal on these trucks. It seems that it would eliminate the spring bending problem up front. Sorry if I overlooked it, I scanned through here quickly.

[Desert Beast]

Tad what 2 brands are you experimenting with?

I was thinking about these, but they look like the silver ones you have.

http://www.diy4x.com/suspension.htm

UDSR Shackle

GM Factory style shackles. Designed to fit a 2.5" wide spring. Comes complete with Greasable poly bushings and sleeves.
These are available in 4,5,6 and 7" lengths.
3/8" thick sides, 5/16" center gusset and a 2" x .25" wl. DOM bushing. Fully welded and ready for abuse.


What have you found wrong with both of the shackles you have been testing?

Rankin

i run these shackles and they are pure beef. they are one of the only things that have not broken on my rig. and they take some abuse right up front.

[ncjeepers]

This may have already been covered and I missed it, tell me again why it you don't use the shackle reversal on these trucks. It seems that it would eliminate the spring bending problem up front. Sorry if I overlooked it, I scanned through here quickly.
IMHO, reversals have lots of problems with no real benefits to the average user. Things like fenderwell/firewall clearance, driveshaft travel, lots of stress on the front of the frame, brake dive, and amount of work involved, to name a few.
Seems to me the negatives vastly outweigh the positives for anything but a high speed truck.

[jepj2000]

i run these shackles and they are pure beef. they are one of the only things that have not broken on my rig. and they take some abuse right up front.

Well thats good to know. I'll be saving for those too now I guess.

Rankin

[69 Gladiator]

IMHO, reversals have lots of problems with no real benefits to the average user. Things like fenderwell/firewall clearance, driveshaft travel, lots of stress on the front of the frame, brake dive, and amount of work involved, to name a few.
Seems to me the negatives vastly outweigh the positives for anything but a high speed truck.

I thought he was rock crawling with his rig. Most of the rock guys I know do the shackle reversal to eliminate any possibility of bending a leaf out on the trail. And that is one negative I wouldn't want to happen if I can prevent it at the shop. Street trucks don't need this mod. But I've never had a street truck bend a front main leaf. :D

[jepj2000]

I thought he was rock crawling with his rig. Most of the rock guys I know do the shackle reversal to eliminate any possibility of bending a leaf out on the trail. And that is one negative I wouldn't want to happen if I can prevent it at the shop. Street trucks don't need this mod. But I've never had a street truck bend a front main leaf. :D

I am going to be doing rock crawling, and I tend to agree with ncjeepers opinion on this. There are a lot of negatives for a shackel reversal, and I feel the shackel in the front is better for rock crawling because as the springs compress the axle moves forward forcing the tires into to ground which increases traction, SR's allow the axle to move away from the ground.

There are cheaper ways of solving the bent leafspring problem otherwise no rockcrawler would run shackels in the front.

Rankin