brake issue: I ain't got any.....

[slackin']

well, I finally talked the wife into driving me the 70 miles to pick up my first FSJ (j10). I had looked at it prior to picking it up and everything felt and looked fine, although I knew it was a major POS, the mechanicals seemed good. I had the PO get the truck inspected before I bought it since the inspection was up nxt month. came back fine.

anyway, Im about 15 miles into my return trip and I lose my brakes. nothing... nada... zip. luckily no one was too close and I zipped over to the right and hit the ebrake... nothing there either. I then pumped like a mad man and was able to get some stopping power. I then pulled into the closest parking lot and stopped. after calming down I notice Im at a **** Jeep dealership. I filled out an overnight form and dropped the key off for them to check it out in the morning.

luckily my wife was only 10 minutes further down the highway going home so she turned around and rescued me. she has YET to speak to me.

anyway, Im new to FSJs but not to cars. I crawled all over that thinng and found no leaks or blown lines anywhere on the truck. the MC was full. The fluid was NASTY but full.

Anyone want to venture a guess to my issue? Im stumped. could it be as simple as air bubble? the truck had been sitting for some time. the brake pedal was grabbing very low prior to the failure and the truck was pulling to the left a bit as well.

after letting the truck sit for a few minutes, they seemed a little better but I was NOT going to drive it the rest of the way home. figure the jeep dealership was fate and that is where I should leave it.

thanks for listening. carry on.
:banghead:
-chris

[mafos4471]

Had the SAME thing happen to me a couple months ago, ended up being the master cylinder. 35 bucks at NAPA and about an hour in the driveway and she worky like new...:thumbsup: But then again it could be the wheel cylinders, proportioning valve...

[chrisnsarah]

You either got a large air bubble, a leaky cylinder or caliper or line, or a ruptured master cylinder.

Coincidence. My MC ruptured and leaked until there was no fluid for the rears and the light came on. I could see the fluid out the weep hole near the booster.

New cylinder, bleed brakes, good to go.

When you get vehicles that sit for a long time and didn't have a brake fluid flush, the water in the fluid will rust and eat away at the bores in the cylinders. You'll have working brakes until the seals cut themselves against the rusted areas and fail.

[slackin']

Im glad to hear the MC is so cheap.
Dropping it off at a dealer is NOT my first option. But there was no way to get home with it on easter sunday. towing would be way too expensive.

Like I said in my first post, there was zero fluid loss in the system, so Im thinking it will be the MC.

Im just upset because I was cruising ghetto-fabulous in my new FSJ-POS and was loving it.

[710 Burner]

.....or, one section of the master cylinder had already failed, thus leaving you without a backup system and the other section failed while you were driving.

[slackin']

UPDATE from the STEALERSHIP.

it's going to run me $360 for MC, labor, and "power" flush of the system.
they warned me that after the service, I may blow other components. real great. all I want/need to do is get it home... then I can do everything myself.

at least it's cheaper than having it towed the rest of the way home.

:banghead:
:banghead:

[The Anti-Chrysler]

If you can tow it back some way, a master is cheap, and easy to change.... and all else required is bleeding the brakes. $360 is rediculous... but not a surprise.

[slackin']

yes, it is an easy thing to change. I was going to go through this all when I got it home.

I agree that 360 is pricey... but it is a dealership afterall. I guess I'll just consider it a "convenience fee". It's one less thing I need to do to it... and I won't get dirty. :thumbsup:

At least I didn't lose my brakes in front of a hyundai dealership. :D

[chrisnsarah]

yes, it is an easy thing to change. I was going to go through this all when I got it home.

I agree that 360 is pricey... but it is a dealership afterall. I guess I'll just consider it a "convenience fee". It's one less thing I need to do to it... and I won't get dirty. :thumbsup:

At least I didn't lose my brakes in front of a hyundai dealership. :D

If I were you, I would do this.

Get a MC, brake fluid, and a bench bleeder kit from the parts store. Less than $40 for everything if you get a rebuilt MC.

If the failure was in the MC and not the wheel cylinders, you should be able to bench bleed the MC and immediately install it. You'll have a minute amount of air in the line where you connect to the brake lines, but this will get you on the road and at least get you home. You can even gravity bleed the system if you want, but I wouldn't change breaking off any corroded bleeder screws until you're home.

I know I'm weighing money vs. safety, but if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then have it done at the dealer. Is there maybe another shop close by that will give you a better rate?

[skeletor]

where are ya in va?

[slackin']

where are ya in va?

truck's in richmond (dealership is haynes jeep)... Im in charlottesville.
was taking 250 back home to stay off of 64. If I took the highway, I would have made it home, but I think the 100 stoplights on Broad street did me in.

Im just going to leave at the dealership. if it were an aircooled VW or porsche, I wouldn't think twice about doing it myself in a parking lot, but since I only owned the truck for 25 minutes... I think it's best to leave it to the "professionals" for now.

[mafos4471]

If I were you, I would do this.

Get a MC, brake fluid, and a bench bleeder kit from the parts store. Less than $40 for everything if you get a rebuilt MC.

If the failure was in the MC and not the wheel cylinders, you should be able to bench bleed the MC and immediately install it. You'll have a minute amount of air in the line where you connect to the brake lines, but this will get you on the road and at least get you home. You can even gravity bleed the system if you want, but I wouldn't change breaking off any corroded bleeder screws until you're home.

I know I'm weighing money vs. safety, but if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then have it done at the dealer. Is there maybe another shop close by that will give you a better rate?

The master cylinder i bought from NAPA came with instructions on how to bench bleed it. It's not at all that difficult and like I said, it only takes an hour or so to take the old one out and put the new one in. Get the quart size brake fluid, you'll need it. When I bled the brakes out, I went until I got CLEAN fluid at the wheel cylinders, that way I flushed the system in the mean time.

For 360 bills, you could replace all the wheel cylinders, pads, maybe rotors and drums, and soft lines.:thumbsup:

[Chuck Brown]

...had the same thing happen last year coming back from a car show in my '65 Mustang, which only had a single resevoir in the M/C. Last stop light from home and just like you....nothing, zilch. Ended up dumping her on the soft shoulder, and nearly had a heart attack, complete with that whole tingly left arm sensation and rush of adrenaline.

The bore in the M/C had corroded, had pits, the fluid was contaminated and it couldnt make a proper vaccum seal to actuate the wheel cylinders. I think I paid maybe 40 bucks for the replacement and the install with bench bleed took maybe 45 minutes, with basic handtools.

I guess it all depends how much value you place on the convenience of having the dealer handle the work, but I'd borrow a trailer from somebody or even rent one from Uhaul for under 50 bucks, rather than eat the $360 bucks.

So, trailer + brake fluid + NAPA M/C you're looking at maybe 100 (+/-) bucks, plus whatever the cost of running around + gas, etc.


Good luck, I'd be interested in hearing what the dealership says.

Chuck Brown

[Gil]

Similar thing happened to me. Brakes felt like nothing I have ever driven. Some people told me it was just a "FSJ thing". But it just felt wrong to me. So, for safety sake, I took it to a mechanic. The front brakes...almost gone; rear brakes...GONE. After replacing rotors, pads, shoes, drums, brake cylinders...no pressure to the front brakes: Master Cylinder bad. Replaced master cylinder. Brakes were binding :banghead: . Turns out the spacer for the hydroboost was 1/8" too thin...got an extra spacer and now brakes work fine. Almost $500, though...but as a newbee to wrenching, I thought it best to let a pro do it...for safety sake. Still can't believe that someone told me it was just a FSJ thing...there is no comparison to what I have now and what I had (NOTHING) when I got the Jeep.

For me, until I am comfortable with those things in the tool box...what are they called...Oh yeah, tools...any safety related jobs will go to the mechanic. Good luck at the dealer...I hope it stays at the price they quotes.

[cherokees]

when driving these older jeeps its always good to have a backup plan. my backup is AAA. at around $70 a year its a life saver. they will bring you gas, or as in this situation tow it back to your house where you can take a closer and safer look at it.

[srobertsfsj]

when driving these older jeeps its always good to have a backup plan. my backup is AAA. at around $70 a year its a life saver. they will bring you gas, or as in this situation tow it back to your house where you can take a closer and safer look at it.

x2 AAA is well worth it. Even if you don't use it, it's still a great piece of mind.

[Mahamotorworks]

I got roadside assistance with my Statefarm insurance. I know that they will grow to love my Jeeps.

MAHA

[slackin']

update. it is done at the dealership.
they actually came in $50 lower than their estimate, so Im glad about that.

however they tell me that it pulls to the left under braking. It was doing this prior to them failing. I was hoping that would be fixed with the MC.

they tell me they bleed all 4 corners and were able to flush everything. so it's not a blocked line (by what they say).

anyone have a idea of what it could be? stuck caliper maybe??

looks like it will be a new brake system when I get it back home.
Is NAPA a decent place to get parts for FSJs? Im used to having to mail order all my parts on my other cars, so simply going across the street to NAPA would be awesome.

thanks again for listening. I was hoping I bought a mechanically decent truck, but looks like I got boned (once again).

-chris

[J4GRAND]

Is NAPA a decent place to get parts for FSJs?
Yes, a very good place especially one that still has old time books and doesn't rely exclusively on the computers. The brake parts are mostly the same as Chevy parts so they'll be plentiful. As for it pulling, sounds like a bad hose or caliper.

[cincyjeeprs]

Brakes are overated. It's all about the gearing!! (Maybe that's why some guys spell it "breaks").:D

I feel your pain. My ZJ jumped the serpentine belt the other day on the interstate in the pouring rain on the wrong side of town. Sure, all I needed was an idler pully and a new tensioner. Almost $400 later, AAA and the dealer had me back on the road. Sometime you do what you got to do.

My bet is on a sticking caliper.

[Chuck Brown]

anyone have a idea of what it could be? stuck caliper maybe??

-chris

Im new to FSJs myself, so please correct me if Im wrong as I didnt catch the year of the truck, or whether you had a front disc-rear drum setup, or drums at all 4 corners.

A lot of my older Fords w/ 4 drums will generally pull (right) under extreme braking even on a bone dry surface, and its just an inherent part of the experience. If youre like me and grew up with drums, you know what Im talking about. Im gonna guess that if it wasnt Goober and Gomer flushing your system and going over the MC, then more than likely they already checked your rotors/pads for wear or warpage and ensured that your calipers moved freely.

Just my 2 cents, what the heck do I know...Im still new to this forum!

Chuck Brown

[slackin']

IT'S HOME!

finally got the wife to drive me back out to get the truck. dealer came in at 260. a whole 100 cheaper than their initial quote. all I have to say is wow. Ive never heard of that happening before.

I have brakes now but still pulls to the left and to be honest I don't have too much confidence in them. I'll be replacing the whole system first off.

anyway.... Where can I get a new proportion valve? NAPA doesn't list one.

thanks!

[Elliott]

BJ's Offroad has new ones... They have an add in the vendor section here.

[beloth]

update. it is done at the dealership.
they actually came in $50 lower than their estimate, so Im glad about that.

however they tell me that it pulls to the left under braking. It was doing this prior to them failing. I was hoping that would be fixed with the MC.



This could be a warped rotor or caliper on it's last legs...i had a AMC concord once that would dive to the right...fun times...found out the rotor was ~ when it should have been ---:rolleyes:
got me a new rotor and then no more diving to the right when hitting the brakes.

R

[beloth]

I got roadside assistance with my Statefarm insurance. I know that they will grow to love my Jeeps.

MAHA


is this avaliable with liability insurance or do you have to have full coverage...and what did it run you if you don't mind me asking?:confused:

[chrisnsarah]

This could be a warped rotor or caliper on it's last legs...i had a AMC concord once that would dive to the right...fun times...found out the rotor was ~ when it should have been ---:rolleyes:
got me a new rotor and then no more diving to the right when hitting the brakes.

R

Or a stuck caliper. Either the caliper piston or the caliper is not sliding freely on the bolts.