Welding rivet holes

[mmcswain]

Sorry to bring this up if it has already been addressed but I just spent 45 min going through old welding threads and couldn't find my answer. I am looking to purchase a welder (under $350) for the house and the first thing that I need to do weld the rivet holes closed. I have two questions:

1) what is the best welder for this and multiple other small projects around the GW and house?

2) any tips for the welding of the holes themselves?

Thanks in advance

[malodin]

my buddy has one of those hobart handlers, i love it i was able to weld up small guage exhaust tubing with it, if you can weld exhaust tubbing with it i think you can fill in some rivets...other than that cant be much help

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

...the first thing that I need to do weld the rivet holes closed.


any tips for the welding of the holes themselves?

Thanks in advance SURE! JUST TINT AND SOLDER THEM UP...AKA PROPANE TORCH!.......:)

[5quarter]

if you can find a chunk of copper and clamp to the back side then weld the hole shut, the copper wont get hot enough to melt or if you are using a low powered wire welder then a block of steel will work just try not to run the arc on the steel block

[Damaged Goods]

Remove the paint from around the hole. Both sides if possible. Bu try not to remove any metal. You will just burn a bigger hole if it gets to thin. I just finished welding a bunch of holes shut last night. :D

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

if you can find a chunk of copper and clamp to the back side then weld the hole shut, the copper wont get hot enough to melt or if you are using a low powered wire welder then a block of steel will work just try not to run the arc on the steel block

Ive never heard of using copper, always heard to use brass.

[Chevelleguy]

The copper is used to keep the weld from falling through the hole, but the weld won't stick to it. Kinda like putting tape over the back of the hole before you fill it with Bondo.

[95KY sahara]

I'm a welder by trade and I reccomend either a Miller, Linclon, or Hobart. You will be disapointed if you skimp on a machine. Any of these three are quality machines. You probably won't find one, even used, for 350 bucks though.

As for size, you really need to determine what you will be welding MOST. For body work, a 110 volt machine is great. Many people are scared of them because thay only have a 20% duty cycle, but for thin metals at low amperages, they will weld fine. I used a Miller 135 for years buliding custom duct work for a mechanical contractor. It never got hot and quit on me. I don't think they make a 135 anymore, but I do know they make a 140. If youget one of these, be sure to plug it into a 30 amp outlet.

I would reccomend a machine that has an infintie voltage setting. With a selectable voltage knob you are limited to, say, four voltage settings. Then you fine tune it with wire speed. Infinite voltage gives more control over the heat setting, and I like that much better.

If you think you'll be welding 1/4" and over on a regular basis, I'd look at a larger machine. The major companies make a small machine (same size as the 110's) that runs on 220 volts. If you want more, you can step on up to a roll around machine, but I doubt many homeowners really NEED these.

I would reccomend a 110 machine to about anyone. There are exceptions to "homeowners" and you have to decide if you are one. I am. I use a 110 for 90% of my work at home, but I still do enough heavier material to justify a big roll around.

Any way you go, BE SURE TO USE SHIELDING GAS!!!!!! Flux core wire has it's place, but not in ANY 110 machine and not on ANY sheetmetal. Do not buy a cheap machine that isn't plumed up for gas use. You will regret it.

As for actually plugging the holes, be sure to clean them well and then just give a SHORT burst to the top edge of the hole. Then work your way to the bottom. It should only take two or three squeezes on the trigger to plug them up. Be sure not to hold an arc on the metal too long or you'll warp it bad. Remember, short spots till it's plugged up, and let it cool for a couple seconds between them. You'll be fine.

[mmcswain]

Thanks!!


I'm a welder by trade and I reccomend either a Miller, Linclon, or Hobart. You will be disapointed if you skimp on a machine. Any of these three are quality machines. You probably won't find one, even used, for 350 bucks though.

As for size, you really need to determine what you will be welding MOST. For body work, a 110 volt machine is great. Many people are scared of them because thay only have a 20% duty cycle, but for thin metals at low amperages, they will weld fine. I used a Miller 135 for years buliding custom duct work for a mechanical contractor. It never got hot and quit on me. I don't think they make a 135 anymore, but I do know they make a 140. If youget one of these, be sure to plug it into a 30 amp outlet.

I would reccomend a machine that has an infintie voltage setting. With a selectable voltage knob you are limited to, say, four voltage settings. Then you fine tune it with wire speed. Infinite voltage gives more control over the heat setting, and I like that much better.

If you think you'll be welding 1/4" and over on a regular basis, I'd look at a larger machine. The major companies make a small machine (same size as the 110's) that runs on 220 volts. If you want more, you can step on up to a roll around machine, but I doubt many homeowners really NEED these.

I would reccomend a 110 machine to about anyone. There are exceptions to "homeowners" and you have to decide if you are one. I am. I use a 110 for 90% of my work at home, but I still do enough heavier material to justify a big roll around.

Any way you go, BE SURE TO USE SHIELDING GAS!!!!!! Flux core wire has it's place, but not in ANY 110 machine and not on ANY sheetmetal. Do not buy a cheap machine that isn't plumed up for gas use. You will regret it.

As for actually plugging the holes, be sure to clean them well and then just give a SHORT burst to the top edge of the hole. Then work your way to the bottom. It should only take two or three squeezes on the trigger to plug them up. Be sure not to hold an arc on the metal too long or you'll warp it bad. Remember, short spots till it's plugged up, and let it cool for a couple seconds between them. You'll be fine.

[firecaptain13]

I've had great luck with my Craftsman 110 with the shielding gas. I've even pushed it and done some welding on 1/4 inch just to see how well it did. Shielding gas makes all the difference on making a good weld and it's worth spending a little extra on a welder that has or can be converted to use shielding gas

[danjohnson67]

Yes, get a welder with gas, I picked up a cheep 110 flux core wire welder for little stuff around home since I don't work at the shop anymore. I never used flux core before, always stick or MIG. I hate it! I sure do miss the Miller. As soon as I can save the money (and find a good deal) I'm upgrading.

[mafos4471]

I'm a welder by trade and I reccomend either a Miller, Linclon, or Hobart. You will be disapointed if you skimp on a machine. Any of these three are quality machines. You probably won't find one, even used, for 350 bucks though.

As for size, you really need to determine what you will be welding MOST. For body work, a 110 volt machine is great. Many people are scared of them because thay only have a 20% duty cycle, but for thin metals at low amperages, they will weld fine. I used a Miller 135 for years buliding custom duct work for a mechanical contractor. It never got hot and quit on me. I don't think they make a 135 anymore, but I do know they make a 140. If youget one of these, be sure to plug it into a 30 amp outlet.

I would reccomend a machine that has an infintie voltage setting. With a selectable voltage knob you are limited to, say, four voltage settings. Then you fine tune it with wire speed. Infinite voltage gives more control over the heat setting, and I like that much better.

If you think you'll be welding 1/4" and over on a regular basis, I'd look at a larger machine. The major companies make a small machine (same size as the 110's) that runs on 220 volts. If you want more, you can step on up to a roll around machine, but I doubt many homeowners really NEED these.

I would reccomend a 110 machine to about anyone. There are exceptions to "homeowners" and you have to decide if you are one. I am. I use a 110 for 90% of my work at home, but I still do enough heavier material to justify a big roll around.

Any way you go, BE SURE TO USE SHIELDING GAS!!!!!! Flux core wire has it's place, but not in ANY 110 machine and not on ANY sheetmetal. Do not buy a cheap machine that isn't plumed up for gas use. You will regret it.

As for actually plugging the holes, be sure to clean them well and then just give a SHORT burst to the top edge of the hole. Then work your way to the bottom. It should only take two or three squeezes on the trigger to plug them up. Be sure not to hold an arc on the metal too long or you'll warp it bad. Remember, short spots till it's plugged up, and let it cool for a couple seconds between them. You'll be fine.

X2, this should be auto posted to all welding threads. I too weld every day and couldn't agree more.

[tgreening]

I do a bit of welding around my shop from time to time and I'd have to agree with sahara when it comes to your budget. You are going to be hard pressed to find a mig machine of just about any type for that much money.

The next question I would ask is just what kind of welding do you intend to do? If you are looking at doing mostly sheet metal you need to think about that budget. If you intend to be welding on plate steel like frames and such, and given your budget, I'd give serious thought to a stick machine. It can be found within your budget, you don't have to worry about gas and it will be useful on frame work or other types of fabrication. The lowest end mig machine is beyond your budget and wouldn't be useful for much beyond stitching sheet metal together. The drawback to the stick is that is useful for just about anything BUT sheet metal.

[Chuck Brown]

I'm a welder by trade and I reccomend either a Miller, Linclon, or Hobart. You will be disapointed if you skimp on a machine. Any of these three are quality machines. You probably won't find one, even used, for 350 bucks though.

As for size, you really need to determine what you will be welding MOST. For body work, a 110 volt machine is great. Many people are scared of them because thay only have a 20% duty cycle, but for thin metals at low amperages, they will weld fine. I used a Miller 135 for years buliding custom duct work for a mechanical contractor. It never got hot and quit on me. I don't think they make a 135 anymore, but I do know they make a 140. If youget one of these, be sure to plug it into a 30 amp outlet.

I would reccomend a machine that has an infintie voltage setting. With a selectable voltage knob you are limited to, say, four voltage settings. Then you fine tune it with wire speed. Infinite voltage gives more control over the heat setting, and I like that much better.

If you think you'll be welding 1/4" and over on a regular basis, I'd look at a larger machine. The major companies make a small machine (same size as the 110's) that runs on 220 volts. If you want more, you can step on up to a roll around machine, but I doubt many homeowners really NEED these.

I would reccomend a 110 machine to about anyone. There are exceptions to "homeowners" and you have to decide if you are one. I am. I use a 110 for 90% of my work at home, but I still do enough heavier material to justify a big roll around.

Any way you go, BE SURE TO USE SHIELDING GAS!!!!!! Flux core wire has it's place, but not in ANY 110 machine and not on ANY sheetmetal. Do not buy a cheap machine that isn't plumed up for gas use. You will regret it.

As for actually plugging the holes, be sure to clean them well and then just give a SHORT burst to the top edge of the hole. Then work your way to the bottom. It should only take two or three squeezes on the trigger to plug them up. Be sure not to hold an arc on the metal too long or you'll warp it bad. Remember, short spots till it's plugged up, and let it cool for a couple seconds between them. You'll be fine.

This pretty much sums up what you need to know perfectly!
My Father in Law owns a steel fabrication shop down the street and I consulted with him first before getting my Lincoln 180 (220v) for about 6 bills, and he told me that no matter what I decide on, to spend the extra cash and go with the 220v and aim for a rig that will handle stock LARGER than what you THINK you'll be working on.

Even if you think you'll only be working on 1/8" or 3/16" stock, aim higher so you dont eventually find yourself boxed into a unit that wont handle that unexpected 1/4" plate project that will inevitably come your way.

Im real happy with the Lincoln 180, and luckily my garage was hooked up for a washer/dryer unit, so getting access to enough juice isnt a problem.

Flux core is going to take a little more practice if you've only worked with a bottle in the past (I never used flux core MIG before this) as it tends not to be as clean, but I've had a lot of success when doing frame work or building my own rotisserie and upright axle storage stands for example.

Spend a full weekend practicing, you'll love it!!

Chuck Brown

[95KY sahara]

This pretty much sums up what you need to know perfectly!
My Father in Law owns a steel fabrication shop down the street and I consulted with him first before getting my Lincoln 180 (220v) for about 6 bills, and he told me that no matter what I decide on, to spend the extra cash and go with the 220v and aim for a rig that will handle stock LARGER than what you THINK you'll be working on.

Even if you think you'll only be working on 1/8" or 3/16" stock, aim higher so you dont eventually find yourself boxed into a unit that wont handle that unexpected 1/4" plate project that will inevitably come your way.

Im real happy with the Lincoln 180, and luckily my garage was hooked up for a washer/dryer unit, so getting access to enough juice isnt a problem.

Flux core is going to take a little more practice if you've only worked with a bottle in the past (I never used flux core MIG before this) as it tends not to be as clean, but I've had a lot of success when doing frame work or building my own rotisserie and upright axle storage stands for example.

Spend a full weekend practicing, you'll love it!!

Chuck Brown


Just remember that a 110 will do fine on the occasional heavy stock IF you prep the joint correctly. You can weld frames and square tube and whatever you want with a 110 machine. You just have to know the correct way to prepare the joint. Don't expect to run a bead over a crack in a frame and penetrate 100%. Use a grinder to cut a vee where the crack is, then weld it up. If you're welding plate together, but a bevel on each piece. (AWS code is 22.5 degrees on each for a 45 degree vee) This will make the root of the joint much thinner, allowing you to penetrate all the way through. It will take a few passes to fill heavier joints, but you will have a joint with 100% penetration. This is common practice in all structural and pipe welding, although most of each is done with stick.

[H Callaway]

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j289/hcallaway/DSC00964.jpg

What I really like about this machine is that it can do up to 1/4" on 110. The company that sells these really stands behind them and offers over the phone advise that really helps guys like me that have never welded before buying a welder. My brother in law is the head fabricator for Newman Hass Racing. Champ Cars, Indy Cars as well as being an expert in every type of welding. This is what he picked out for me. I think he has a Miller, but this was the best bang for the buck. HTP even offers videos that show how to do it.
http://www.htpweld.com/products/mig_welders/mig_140.html
This is my little machine:
The MIG 140 boasts all of the features and functions of our larger machines, such as spot and stitch welding. Because it shares many of the components of these machines, you're assured of a smooth welding arc. The MIG 140 can plug into any 110V outlet, and it weighs only 135 lbs., so you can easily shuffle it around to various projects.

With 140 amps of welding power and six heat settings, the MIG 140 is recommended for use on materials up to 1/4 inch thick- the majority of automotive applications- all with the ease and performance you expect from HTP.

[JPSwapMohn]

I have been reading through welder/welding stuff tonight as I sit in this tent waiting for a ride out of the sand box. Thank god for wireless internet, even if it is $27/week!

Anyway, I expressed interest in taking a welding class when I get home. I have done some spot welding and such but nothing more. So the wife also said she thought it would be fun. **(she scored a -2 on that Rate Your Wife post..but how can I deny her a new welder? :o)

So, does anyone else out there have advice on choosing a machine? I figure I at least want something that would allow my to attempt to fab up bumpers and such. Not sure I ever will, but I like the idea of being able to. It looks like I might be doing some perches for an axle swap as well if things work out.

I ran across a write up on an Air Liquide 200 and a few others. I know the Miller/Lincoln/Hobart are the makers of choice. Holts' HTP looks like it would probably meet my needs as well.

The info on this tread is really good for those of us that are not garage-shop heros..

bm

[66 K-Wag]

I'm really pleased with my Lincoln 3200HD. It's a 110v wirefeed unit that can run sheilding gas or not. Keep an eye on daBay and you can save $150 - $200 off the Home Depot price. Works perfect for what I need it to do.

Also - Get a mask right off the bat. Those little handheld shields that comes with many new welders are a waste of time (how many people have you ever seen welding with one hand?). I think I paid $50 from Northern Tools for mine...

[JPSwapMohn]

Are you able to weld thick stock with it? I guess by thick I mean bumper material and such.

[66 K-Wag]

Gasless its rated to 1/4" but I think thats single pass.

[Billygoat]

I have to disagree with the flux core sucks on sheet metal.
I have a Lincoln 110v (not sure the model), and I weld 22 ga up to 1/4" with 0.30 flux core single pass on a regular basis. I have the gas regulator but have not gotten a tank yet (I have had the welder for 8 years).

Now it is a totaly different disciplin that gas welding, similar to stick, yet not...
In fact when I grab a 220 or 440 MIG welder at work I have a hard time.
I have also welded a lot thicker metals, they just take more prep (double bevel edges) and multiple passes.

My FIL is a state certitfied pressure vessel welder and he has not only complemeted my welds, he suggested that I do some work for a couple people......that was 1 heck of a compliment to me.

and for a beginer, any basic welding class would be a huge benifit.

[FSJ Guy]

I bet that once you're used to gas welding, flux core DOES suck on sheetmetal! LOL!

I welded an exhaust system together with an arc welder, once. It doesn't look pretty, but it was tight. It wasn't an ideal situation, but it worked.

[Billygoat]

I bet that once you're used to gas welding, flux core DOES suck on sheetmetal! LOL!


That is very possible!!!
But flux core is a lot more portable, with out have to drag a tank around.

[tgreening]

That is very possible!!!
But flux core is a lot more portable, with out have to drag a tank around.


Flux core has its place. If you are going to do any amount of welding outside then flux core is the way to go if you want to use wire. Maintaining a gas shield outside can be problematic at best.

If the bulk of your welding is going to be done inside then gas shielded is the way to go. Less mess to worry about and the wire cost savings is significant. Since most units will come will come with a cart with built in tank holder, dragging said tank around the shop shouldn't be much of a problem.