Yet another diesel conversion project (YADC)

[budojeepr]

Howdy,

I thought I'd introduce my new diesel Wagoneer project.

After reading as many of the threads about this as possible, I decided to go with the GM diesel for my tired Wagoneer (yeah, Brad W, this is it). I bought a 1984 Suburban that had had a 1995 6.5L installed by Peterbilt in Phoenix. The engine has about 40k on it. I'm also using the TH700R4 and hydroboost from the 'burb.

Bought a Transgo shift kit and assorted accessories, and a head gasket set and accessories. Lots of work yet to do, lots more $$ to spend.

Pics of the 'burb are -> here (http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/) <- ... and I'll post more of the build as things progress. Pics of the Jeep the parts are going into are -> here (http://www.4x4trailhunters.com/my.4x4/vehicle.php?id=54&vid=135) <-.

Two questions (so far) for the experts in the group:

Are -> these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBTOX:IT&item=190173450971&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI) <- CUCV headers worth the coin and effort? Will they fit the engine I have?

Anybody got a wiring diagram for the lockup torque converter control? I have the wiring and the little "PC board in a box", but I'd like to know what I'm getting into beforehand.

Cheers! I love new projects! :thumbsup:

[Rednex4x4s]

I would say those are the 6.2 manifolds on the motor now.I beleive they are the same.I myself would buy some flanges and build my own headers.To bad you dont have the turbo setup. Ihad a freind that put an aftermarket kit on a 6.2 and loved it.Good luck Hopefully by the end of the year I will be doing a Diesel conversion on mine.Im hoping to be able to get enough mileage from MyG-Wag with a diesel to be able to drive it everyday.

[COLOFIREMAN]

I believe it's only a two wire system. Since you have the donor vehicle I suggest you take the wiring from it, that would be the best thing.

I'm doing the same except I'm using a cummins 4BT. Good luck on your swap.:thumbsup:

[DieselSJ]

A couple people on the 6.5 forums have tried those headers and reported no difference. Take your stock manifolds and match-port them to the head and open them up at the flange and they will flow fine. Go with a dual exhaust, at least 2.5", with dual 3" being even better.

Go check out bowtieoverdrives.com. In the section where they have their lockup controllers they have a couple good wiring diagrams. Right now I have mine controlled by a simple switch on the dash.

Make sure the shift kit is for a diesel trans!! Diesel shift points are a lot lower than the gas shift points.

[ohioj20]

"CUCV headers worth the coin and effort? Will they fit the engine I have?"

They will fit, but I'm not sure of any benefits. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me or email me. not an expert, but my dad and I have done three FSJ to 6.2's so we may have a few answers.

[budojeepr]

I believe it's only a two wire system. Since you have the donor vehicle I suggest you take the wiring from it, that would be the best thing. I did grab all the wires and the little box. However, there are more than two wires - I read somewhere that hitting the brakes unlocks the converter, too. Just wanted to know how it all fits. Neither my Haynes or Chilton's manual has the circuit diagram.
A couple people on the 6.5 forums have tried those headers and reported no difference. Take your stock manifolds and match-port them to the head and open them up at the flange and they will flow fine. Go with a dual exhaust, at least 2.5", with dual 3" being even better. Excellent. I'll play with the die-grinder. :D I had planned large dual exhaust. I have a local shop that does fine work, much better than I could ever hope to do myself. They did my 454 exhaust, even called Flowmaster to make sure they tuned it for torque (per my request).
Go check out bowtieoverdrives.com. In the section where they have their lockup controllers they have a couple good wiring diagrams. Right now I have mine controlled by a simple switch on the dash.
Will do. Thanks for the link!

<edit>Couldn't find a diagram...found lots of wiring kits that are interesting and of course would solve the problem.
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=OA1

More info:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/700r4-parts-lockup-wiring-30179.html
http://www.high-impact.net/700r4lockupcontrol.htm
http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/lockup.htm
http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/700R4p1.html
</edit>
Make sure the shift kit is for a diesel trans!! Diesel shift points are a lot lower than the gas shift points. :banghead:
I hadn't known about that! How can you specify? I didn't see anything about that in the Transgo catalog. I only went with Transgo because it's the most-recommended one out there.

Thanks for the help so far!

[budojeepr]

Working on the heads...at least I know now which cylinders were involved (http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/) in the head gasket failure.

JP Magazine had a nice writeup (http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/electrical/154_0804_bjs_dakota_digital_jeep_gauge_kit_modern/index.html) of Dakota Digital gauge clusters for FSJs, so I went a-lookin'. Here are the new objects of my desire:

Dakota Digital (via BJ's Offroad, if they can get 'em)
======================================
$110.95 DSL-2 Universal Flywheel Tachometer Interface (http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=129/category_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd129.htm)
$595.00 VFD3-73J-WAG 1973- 85 Jeep Wagoneer/ J-Trucks Instrument System (http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=498/category_id=310/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd498.htm)
$ 99.95 GSS-2000 Universal Gear Shift Indicator Sending Unit (http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=60/category_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd60.htm)
Total: $805.90
:eek:

Dakota Digital also shows up on eBay...

[budojeepr]

Make sure the shift kit is for a diesel trans!! Diesel shift points are a lot lower than the gas shift points.
Well, the Transgo shift kit arrived yesterday. Seems top-shelf - VERY detailed instructions. And includes parts and instructions specifically for diesels. Whew! You had me worried for a while, there.

[DieselSJ]

<edit>Couldn't find a diagram...found lots of wiring kits that are interesting and of course would solve the problem.
[/URL]

It is under the tech articles -

[url]http://www.700r4.com/tech/tcc/brake_install/diagram.shtml (http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=OA1)

Grab a connector and brake light switch from the wrecking yard and you can put together a lockup harness for about $5.

Glad to hear about the shift kit. Transgo is good stuff.

[budojeepr]

It is under the tech articles -

http://www.700r4.com/tech/tcc/brake_install/diagram.shtml

Grab a connector and brake light switch from the wrecking yard and you can put together a lockup harness for about $5.
Sweeeet. Thank you! :thumbsup:

I already got the harness from the donor - I'll just make sure I grab the brake light switch, too.

Glad to hear about the shift kit. Transgo is good stuff.
There's going to be a learning curve on this one! :cool:

[budojeepr]

Got the 258 out last night. Finally. After working on it for far too long. I've taken many an engine out of a vehicle, but none were as uncooperative as this one. Word to the wise: Don't bother trying to separate the engine from the transmission on this one. The top two bolts are impossible - right behind the head.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Old_six1.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/empty_engine2.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/empty_engine1.jpg

That was ... um ... Phase 4.

Phase 1: Find donor
Phase 2: Disassemble donor
Phase 3: Refurbish donor parts as required
Phase 4: Disassembly Wagoneer
Phase 5: Install hydroboost brake setup
Phase 6: Install donor parts

If you don't break it up into bite-size chunks you end up with yet another unfinished project in the garage!

[malodin]

i love the spray foam insulation...hmmm wonder if it was for exhaust fumes or sound deading?

[budojeepr]

[quote=ClarkGriswald]Looks like some of it came apart on takeoff.[/quote

:D Looks more like it broke apart during re-entry. What a find!

[budojeepr]

...and the donor has left the premises.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/towedAway2.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/towedAway4.jpg

[DieselSJ]

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/empty_engine2.jpg



Yeah, my wiring looked like that. There are only a couple wires that you need. I pulled off the connector at the bulkhead and removed all unnecessary wires at the connector. More than half of those wires can be eliminated.

[budojeepr]

... There are only a couple wires that you need. I pulled off the connector at the bulkhead and removed all unnecessary wires at the connector. More than half of those wires can be eliminated.
Good idea.

It's looking much cleaner in there now that the vacuum brake booster is gone. I've almost got my hydroboost ready to install. Just need to shorten the lever/pushrod a bit. Any recommendations?

Thanks!

[budojeepr]

Hydroboost is modified for assembly...photos hosted courtesy of Photobucket (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/)...

Original hydroboost unit from Suburban:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/hydroboost_01_original.jpg

Modification to mounting bracket - punched out studs and enlarged holes to 7/16". Also added four 7/16" holes for the Jeep spacer:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/hydroboost_02_new_holes.jpg

Detail of pushrod modification. I used the original Jeep end (the Suburban's link end had too big of a hole for the brake pedal's pin). I cut off the 'burb pushrod, threaded it with a 3/8-16 die, and did the same with the Jeep link end. Then I cut off a coupling nut from Ace Hardware (it was about 1/2" too long) and threaded them together. After test-fitting, I used Loctite (blue, medium-strength) to hold them together.

Total length from hydroboost mounting bracket: 5-3/16".
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/hydroboost_06_modification.jpg

Test fit, outside:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/hydroboost_04_test_mount.jpg

Test fit, inside (note: those four nuts are a PITA):
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/hydroboost_07_test_mount.jpg

So now, I'll clean it all up, paint it nicely, and reassemble. Once the engine is in, I'll just use the original 'burb hoses to make it work. I think they'll reach...

Hopefully I'll never have to touch it again.

[budojeepr]

I'm getting close to the "put the engine in" stage. However, I'm also working toward converting to turbo from N/A. Got all the manifolds, now I need to get the turbo and pan.

DieselSJ, did you run a crossover pipe from driver's to passenger side exhaust?

If so, did it result in radiator clearance issues and/or transfer case crossmember location issues?

Thanks!

[budojeepr]

...DieselSJ, did you run a crossover pipe from driver's to passenger side exhaust?

If so, did it result in radiator clearance issues and/or transfer case crossmember location issues?
Aha.

http://www.chaserace.com/exhaust/exhaustwagoneer.html

http://www.chaserace.com/exhaust/images/exwagoneer02_640x480.jpg

[DieselSJ]

Aha.

http://www.chaserace.com/exhaust/exhaustwagoneer.html

http://www.chaserace.com/exhaust/images/exwagoneer02_640x480.jpg

Yup.

[budojeepr]

This time with transmission attached.

The crossmember location works. I'll have to make some slight mods to use the GM adapter with the Jeep crossmember, but it seems easy so far. I did a test-fit with the transfer case...I'll probably have to drill one hole in the adapter to work with the Jeep NP208 clocking.

The steering shaft is dictating how high I can mount the engine in the bay; I'll do a weight-on test to see if that height allows the pan to clear the differential when the suspension flexes. Looks ok right now, but better safe than sorry.

I may be able to salvage the stock heater box, but it'll be close. That exhaust manifold gets really close, and the turbo outlet looks like it'll go right through the box.

Pics (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/) (via Photobucket (http://photobucket.com/)):

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/01_Engine_Trans.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/03_P-side_clearance.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/05_on_crossmember.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/06_on_crossmember.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/07_D-side_mount.jpg

[DieselSJ]

Your engine looks extremely low in your chassis. Check the clearance between your oil filter and the yoke on your front diff. My engine sits higher than yours and I have less than 1" clearance between the yoke and the filter when the axle is on the snubbers (and trust me, with the weight of the diesel, the snubbers are getting used daily!!!).

What turbo are you using? If you are using a stock GM turbo with the outlet pointing down, you ***MIGHT*** be able to keep the stock heat/AC. There was no way mine was going to work with the MHI turbo.

http://members.cox.net/mark.linder/wag/exh6.sized.jpg

[budojeepr]

Your engine looks extremely low in your chassis. Check the clearance between your oil filter and the yoke on your front diff. My engine sits higher than yours and I have less than 1" clearance between the yoke and the filter when the axle is on the snubbers (and trust me, with the weight of the diesel, the snubbers are getting used daily!!!). Thanks for looking. I didn't take an "engine in bay" shot last night. My memory seems to show it at about where yours is. :rolleyes: I'll check. Moving the engine up or forward results in steering shaft interference. I hope I don't get in too much of a bind.

We lose that much clearance?? My snubbers are about 8 to 10 inches above the axle right now. Time to seriously consider spring upgrades before I drop the engine on them.

What turbo are you using? If you are using a stock GM turbo with the outlet pointing down, you ***MIGHT*** be able to keep the stock heat/AC. There was no way mine was going to work with the MHI turbo. I'm trying to source a GM turbo. I'm not planning on running a lot of boost, so I'm not going to be that picky about getting a GM-8 over a -5 or -3. I have a T3 Garrett off of a Volvo (VW project) that I was using as a model to try to get an idea of clearances. Like yours, the T3 exhausts straight out the back - no way that would work.

Again, thanks for looking!

[DieselSJ]

Look at the pic earlier in this thread that shows one of my mounts. The lower mount hole in the block is about even with the top of the frame. I did have to trim my driver's side mount to clear the steering shaft.

[budojeepr]

Look at the pic earlier in this thread that shows one of my mounts. The lower mount hole in the block is about even with the top of the frame. I did have to trim my driver's side mount to clear the steering shaft. I see. The problem lies in the difference between the Novak mounts (http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/engine_mounts/mmx-wc1.htm) and the Advance Adapters (https://eshop.advanceadapters.com/commerce/ccpc1057-1369-28p-n-71300729-chevy-v8-26-4-3l-v6-engine-mount-kit-713007-713007.htm) (?) you used. AA allows you to put the engine higher than the Novak units.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/07_D-side_mount.jpg

http://www.chaserace.com/exhaust/images/exwagoneer03_640x480.jpg

I may have to return my Novak mounts and go get AA ones.

I emailed Novak with a picture and asked about it, and - no lie - the support guy called me back within 5 minutes! He had a couple suggestions, which I'll try, and if this doesn't work he'll exchange these new style mounts with the old-style mounts, which is actually what I used on the 454. We'll see...

[budojeepr]

Here's what I'm thinking about doing for this motor mount:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/mount_mod_5.jpg

It's a piece of 1/4" wall rectangular tubing, notched to clear the steering shaft, that spaces the Novak adapter away from the frame rail.

The only problem I see with it is making sure it's securely fastened to the frame. I can use the notched area to drill a hole for a rosette weld; two of the shock mount bolts will go through one wall; and I'll put a flange across the bottom, spanning the frame too.

What say ye?

[Stuka]

Did the GM exhaust go under the oil pan like that? It may be an illusion, but looks like the drive shaft will hit it with articulation?

[DieselSJ]

Did the GM exhaust go under the oil pan like that? It may be an illusion, but looks like the drive shaft will hit it with articulation?

The stock GM exhaust went around the back of the pan. They didn't need to worry about driveshaft clearance because those trucks were all IFS. There wasn't room in my chassis to route it the stock way (or I would have just used a stock GM crossover). The exhaust guy did a great job of keeping things clear of the driveshaft and diff. I cycled the suspension and it clears...at least in the garage - we'll see what happens if it hits the trails.

[budojeepr]

Eric at Novak is sending me a new set of "classic" mounts today. I don't even have to return mine first! But they're boxed and waiting for the paperwork...

Lemme tell ya, Novak has been a joy to work with on this. Give 'em a try if you're converting something.

I guess I'll work on making the transmission/transfer case adapter work, make some fuel lines, play with the fuel filler, theorize about strengthening the frame, order a shifter, order a gauge, order a differential gear/rebuild kit, find a turbo and oil lines and oil pan, do the wiring (start, glow plug, torque converter lockup).

...sigh. Nothing to do. I'm bored.

:eek:

[DieselSJ]

This should help with your glow plug wiring...

[budojeepr]

This should help with your glow plug wiring...Thanks!

Whoa. I'm gonna need my readers...

[budojeepr]

See http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showpost.php?p=735455&postcount=9:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Lockup_wiring_diag.png

[budojeepr]

Got the new motor mounts from Novak today. They look exactly like what I need. They even sent a UPS ticket to send the old stuff back.

I'll try 'em out later (in the morning when it's not a zillion degrees in the garage - we hit 103 today), and as usual, post some pics and commentary.

[budojeepr]

The new motor mounts work much better.

Passenger side:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/02_Mount_passenger_01.jpg

Driver side, before modification:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/03_Mount_driver_before_mod_01.jpg

My modification to allow steering shaft clearance. Drilled a new hole 1-1/16" up from middle hole, cut off corner to clear:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/05_Mount_driver_mod.jpg

The fit, after the mod:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/06_Mount_driver_after_mod_02.jpg

Looks like it will work famously. I'm ready to tack-weld the mounts and check the fit. Then, burn them in. I think I'll move that gas can in the background before I strike a spark. :D

New issue: The transfer case clocked to work with the GM adapter hangs too low. The front drive shaft will hit the crossmember, and the transfer case is a rock-attractant. I'm going to investigate custom transmission/transfer case adapters...

(I got to do my bench-press practice today! An NP208 is a lot lighter than an NP205!)
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/07_tcase_01.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/07_tcase_02.jpg

[wickedwagon767]

Well well


what are you concocting here Bradford:eek:

Is this going into Leroy?

[wickedwagon767]

Howdy,

I thought I'd introduce my new diesel Wagoneer project.

Nevermind. I went back and actually READ the original post

:D

[budojeepr]

Well well
what are you concocting here Bradford:eek:
Is this going into Leroy? Welcome back, ww. Haven't seen you around these parts in quite a spell.

I thought this project would be a simpler one than the 454 for Leroy. HOWEVER, that is not the case. I'm (re-)learning the lesson that there is no such thing as a one-component swap.

Change the engine and transmission, and end up with new heads, injectors, glow plugs, intake and exhaust manifolds, switching to turbo, transmission shift kit, new torque converter, rebuild the transfer case, modify crossmember, upgrade front suspension, new exhaust, probably will modify drive shafts, new shifter, different heater core/fan, cooling system. Fancy-pants digital gauges. Oh, and re-gear the front axle and put in a locker while I'm at it. Woosh.

And I found out last week that CA DMV lost the Wyoming title and wants me to get a duplicate before I can renew the registration. I already did that once...:banghead: Anybody heard from user "Brad W" lately (rhetorical - I'll do a search)?

I won't have to worry about the high cost of diesel fuel. I'll be smack out of cash by the time the Jeep's ready to drive!

[DieselSJ]

New issue: The transfer case clocked to work with the GM adapter hangs too low. The front drive shaft will hit the crossmember, and the transfer case is a rock-attractant. I'm going to investigate custom transmission/transfer case adapters...

(I got to do my bench-press practice today! An NP208 is a lot lighter than an NP205!)
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/07_tcase_01.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/07_tcase_02.jpg

Are you missing something? Like maybe your rubber mount? Doesn't it go between the crossmember and the adapter? That will raise the tcase a couple inches.

[budojeepr]

Are you missing something? Like maybe your rubber mount? Doesn't it go between the crossmember and the adapter? That will raise the tcase a couple inches. Good eye, nice catch. The GM adapter is already a couple inches taller than the Jeep one. I was already planning to drop it via a crossmember mod so that the rear output would be in the original location.

It's the clocking that did it. It rotated perhaps 15 degrees CW (from the front) which dropped the front output quite a bit. I can design the crossmember modification around the front output, but it's still going to put that transfer case in harm's way. A nice custom adapter (like this one from Novak - $485.50 (http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_137g.htm)! :eek:) would solve all these issues; I just don't have the technology myself to create one.

[DieselSJ]

Good eye, nice catch. The GM adapter is already a couple inches taller than the Jeep one. I was already planning to drop it via a crossmember mod so that the rear output would be in the original location.

It's the clocking that did it. It rotated perhaps 15 degrees CW (from the front) which dropped the front output quite a bit. I can design the crossmember modification around the front output, but it's still going to put that transfer case in harm's way. A nice custom adapter (like this one from Novak - $485.50 (http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_137g.htm)! :eek:) would solve all these issues; I just don't have the technology myself to create one.

How about running a clocking ring? MUCH cheaper than an adapter.

[wickedwagon767]

I thought this project would be a simpler one than the 454 for Leroy. HOWEVER, that is not the case. I'm (re-)learning the lesson that there is no such thing as a one-component swap.

Anybody heard from user "Brad W" lately (rhetorical - I'll do a search)?

I won't have to worry about the high cost of diesel fuel. I'll be smack out of cash by the time the Jeep's ready to drive!


I'm running into some of my own potholes! Absolutely right. No sucha thing as a one-component swap. I'm swapping Dana60's under Sinjin with 38's. The Quadratrac won't survive...which means T-case swap and driveshafts......oh,wait, forgot the D60 front swap means I get to/have to run crossover steering too.......more power,cooling,cage,bumpers.......bank loan!

you can only hope to retain some sanity by laughing at yourself

:D

Brad W just posted within the last day. Just don't remember where I saw him post:rolleyes:

[budojeepr]

How about running a clocking ring? MUCH cheaper than an adapter.Never heard of such a thing. Got a vendor? How would it work? Would the thickness of the ring affect the strength of the shaft/spline/input gear joint? Would that also affect the drive shaft lengths? The way it's working out now, even with the Novak adapter, I won't have to change the drive shafts at all.

Moot point...I've already ordered an adapter, sans shaft, from Novak. :D

Here are some pics from last night's welding of engine mounts, and the suspension with the engine weight on (I know, a lot of stuff is still missing that would add a lot of weight). A nice stroke of luck - one of the holes for the welds in the Novak mounts on each side works for the shock mounts. How cool is that?

Also, the front axle/suspension/steering is still WAY dirty. That whole assembly is coming out so I can do spring work and gearing, once I have the engine/trans swap stuff worked out. Then it's clean and paint time!

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/dside_welded_1.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/pside_welded_1.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/engine_in_dside_1.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/engine_in_pside_1.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/pside_suspension_weight_on.jpg

[DieselSJ]

A clocking ring is just a 3/4" thick ring that bolts between the trans and transfer case. It has multiple patterns so it lets you clock the tcase in 5 or 6 different positions. Advance has them, and I would imagine that Novak has them also. IIRC they were about $100 or so.

[budojeepr]

The Novak adapter came in yesterday. Seriously nice piece of casting/machine work. I'll have some time this weekend to put it in and get the crossmember all set.

Then we're off doing details. Feels like it's coming together!

[budojeepr]

Got the transfer case mounted up with the Novak adapter today. The foot they supplied bolted right to the same holes the old one used. It's all in the same location; the drive shafts should not need any modifications save new u-joints.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/08_tcase_01.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/08_tcase_02.jpg

My assistant, Rock Star. Not good at swapping tools or fetching the occasional beverage, but he has a great can-do attitude.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/08_tcase_03.jpg

[budojeepr]

Well, got the turbo last night. I took pics, will download from the camera later.

It fits! No sheetmetal cutting necessary, and I may be able to use the stock heater box too!

Now I'm going to have to get serious about the dual batteries setup; I'm putting the second one in the back under the seat - got a hole cut out and starting to fab a box.

Then I'll start sticking the body parts back on.

Woot! Maybe I'll have a tow rig for an August Rubicon trip in the J-truck!

(Going off-topic here, but it's just a feeler: Anybody interested in running the Rubicon in August? I did it last year and had a blast.)

[budojeepr]

I've put on the front sheet-metal...figured out that the Wagoneer had been in an accident, driver's side bashed a bit and some parts replaced. Anyway, it all fit together, with some persuasion.

Also, because of the crash, things were kind of squished together, so I could not fit the 4-row radiator from the J-4000 truck. I bought an aftermarket aluminum cross-flow - the same one I'm using with Leroy and the 454 - from Summit Racing. Here's the saga about fitting the radiator and fan...

First, I decided to use the fan from the Jeep I-6. It has more blades than the GM fan, steeper pitch, the same blade diameter, and it's also a clutch fan. It's also slightly shorter than the GM fan...so I measured from the water pump pulley and figured out I needed 1-7/8" more space. Moving the engine/trans/transfer case back is out of the question at this point, so I made a cutout so I could move the radiator forward.

I used the scissors jack from the GF's Honda, along with a length of DOM tubing I had in the bin, and jacked the radiator supports apart. This allowed the radiator to fall down into place; once I loosened the jack it tightened up again like the Jaws of Death. On these Jeeps the radiator is offset about 2-3/8" to the driver's side (best I can measure), I guess to allow space for the battery on the passenger's side. I used the shroud from the I-6 (since it already fit and the offset was built-in), with some trimming with the jigsaw. Luckily the whole thing fit fairly nicely and the shroud looks like it covers about 1/2 of the fan blade when viewed from the side.

I did a bit of junkyarding (shoe-shopping, I say) and found a pusher fan out of an upscale Mercedes 450 SEL. Had to remove the Mercedes radiator to get it out, but it's perfect. It fits right in the rhino grille area and should be a nice addition to the cooling system. Pics to follow as soon as I can carve out some time to play on the computer.

[budojeepr]

Well, this being Labor Day I figured I'd Labor At The Computer.

Two days ago I participated in the festive Pick n Pull 1/2 Price Day and scored two fairly nice seats from a '96 Chevy Astro (remember The Jetson's dog? Rasro? :D) Van. I removed the pedestal from each and then removed the pedestal (brackets) from the stock Jeep seats. I put the Jeep brackets on the Rasro seats and match-drilled two holes. I reassembled it with hardware found lying on the bench, then cussed a bit and took it apart again and reassembled, this time with all the springs and levers to make it adjust.

The holes fit fairly well with the holes in the floor, and the seats are pretty comfortable (MUCH more comfortable than the stock buckets). The discerning eye will see a couple other interesting details (not necessarily of the seats).
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Seats1_th.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Seats2_th.jpg

They need to be cleaned up a bit, and I think I'll go find some nice covers.

Next here are some shots of the turbo going in:
As received from eBay seller:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Turbo-in-a-box.jpg

Test fit:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Turbo-test-fit-1.jpg

Then I removed the spot welds on the grille support:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/106_3539_th.jpg

Did a basic bondo/fill/sand/paint job to last until I paint the whole thing:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/106_3543_th.jpg

Here it is, assembled and fit with the grille on. That's a battery cable from the second battery (mounted in the back-back) running across the top...I hadn't trimmed it and soldered the terminal on yet.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/106_3545_th.jpg

More assembly pictures...

Turbo oil feed line, 3/8" aluminum:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Turbo-oil-feed-line.jpg

Assembly showing radiator, hoses, fan, shroud. I'm using the Jeep I-6 fan (same diameter, more blades, hopefully the clutch works for this application) and the Jeep shroud, trimmed to fit. Upper hose is one from my box o'stuff and some Ace Hardware PVC fittings. The lower hose is a stock one, trimmed to fit.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Assembly-from-side3.jpg

Better shot of the radiator mount modifications. I moved the radiator forward about 1-1/4". You can also see the accelerator cable. I pulled one from a junkyard 6.2L and it fits, just had to trim the little plastic thing that goes through the firewall.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Assembly-from-side2.jpg

Side shot showing turbo and battery, too:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Assembly-from-side.jpg

Final pic for today shows Mercedes pusher fan in front. I used wisdom gained from my recent Rubicon relay-blowing-up trip to wire the fan. It has a 40-amp relay, an inline 30-amp circuit breaker, and 12-gauge wire. I also bought a nice switch to control it. I'm hoping the clutch fan will do most of the work and I only have to switch on the pusher in traffic or other low-rpm applications. We'll see...
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/Assembly-from-front.jpg

I'm currently working on drive shafts (clean and new u-joints), turbo oil return line, heater hoses (stuck plug on the water pump! GRRRR!), fuel tank filler hose, and testing and cleaning up the hurrah's nest of wiring.

Since there's a fairly excellent chance of never getting an intercooler to fit in this space, I'm considering a water-injection system (http://www.duramax.bizhosting.com/My_Truck/water_injection.htm) (watch out! pop-ups!). Any opinions?

Also, the Dana 44 rear axle currently has 3.54:1 gears (the front still has the stock 2.72:1). The calculator on Novak's web site (http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/gearing.htm) says I'll turn about 2500rpm at 75mph (27" tire dia., measured radius from ground to axle center, .76:1 trans overdrive, 1:1 transfer case). If I switch back to the AMC20 with 2.72:1 gears, rpms drop to about 1930.

For a turbocharged diesel that's going to see mostly highway cruising (VERY little 'wheeling - Leroy does the rock crawling) and maybe light towing, which is the better rpm range? Opinions?

Then I should be able to put in the fluids, run the oil pump with a drill motor, and start it! Nothing to it! Clear sailing! What could possibly go wrong?

[DieselSJ]

Where are you going to mount the oil cooler? They are an absolute necessity for these engines.

Looking good so far! Is your stock heater going to work?

What turbo is that? GM-?

Gearing - is that a 700R4? If so, the OD is .70, not .76. I'm running 3.31 gears with the stock 235/75/15 tires and things feel like they would be better with a 3.42 gear. 2.73 will be way too low. I don't have a tach on mine so I don't know what PRMs I'm turning, I just know that a slightly lower gear would be nice. At 55mph with the converter locked I can barely generate any boost (2-3psi) because the revs are so low. Your stock turbo might spool up a little easier though.

[budojeepr]

Where are you going to mount the oil cooler? They are an absolute necessity for these engines. Oil cooler is from a V8 Grand Cherokee, and is mounted next to the driver side headlight. Hopefully the hole that's usually blanked off with rhino grilles will give it enough air flow.

I also have a trans cooler mounted under the passenger side.

Looking good so far! Is your stock heater going to work? Dunno. I took it off in preparation for the turbo install. I'm going to test the fit a bit later. Hopefully I can use it; however, I've had to remove the air conditioning condenser and assoc. junk. Perhaps I'll go with a Vintage Air setup later - having no A/C in Redding, CA in the summer...sucks. For example, we're expected to remain above 100 degrees (daily highs) for the next week. And it's September. Ack.

What turbo is that? GM-?Dunno. How do I tell? There is a raised numeral "5" in two places along with a bunch of other numbers and text. No tag, at least any I can read. It's from a '96 Yukon if that helps.

Gearing - is that a 700R4? If so, the OD is .70, not .76.Yes, stock 700R4. By cracky, you're right. A 30% overdrive?

I'm running 3.31 gears with the stock 235/75/15 tires and things feel like they would be better with a 3.42 gear. 2.73 will be way too low. I don't have a tach on mine so I don't know what PRMs I'm turning, I just know that a slightly lower gear would be nice. At 55mph with the converter locked I can barely generate any boost (2-3psi) because the revs are so low. Your stock turbo might spool up a little easier though.That is good information to have. I'll stick with the Dana until I know more. Looks like I'll be re-gearing the front axle! Thanks!

[budojeepr]

Well, I've gotten to the point of trying to start the Diesel Wagoneer! Fuel pump works, glow plugs work, starter works...but I'm not getting fuel out of the IP. I'm getting fuel to it, I'm sure - the filter filled up, and it even pressurized the line into the IP.

I cracked the fittings to all the injectors (at the same time), but even when I turn the engine over for 10 seconds or so, nothing comes out...

So I think I'm having issues with the wiring on the injection pump. None of the wiring diagrams in any of the three manuals I have for the diesel Suburban show the injection pump wiring.

I have a photo I took before I disassembled everything:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/IP_wiring_labeled.jpg

There is a connector with three leads on the Throttle Position Sensor. One pink, one tan w/trace, and one yellow. The Haynes Diesel techbook I bought says the pink gets battery voltage, and the yellow is for EGR. However, the same book says the (nonexistent) blue wire is for EPR (Exhaust Pressure Regulator). There are two more leads on a separate connector that are for the transmission (doesn't allow lockup in 4wd). I figure none of these are affecting the fuel feed.

There are also two male spade lugs on the top if the injection pump. The one closest to the front they say is the injection pump solenoid, and should get at least 9 volts. They hint in the text that it's a pink lead...picture shows it's pink, but I don't know where it comes from. The lug lower down and rearward is the cold advance terminal. A picture in the manual shows that it's just a jumper from the IP solenoid, but my donor was rigged with the cold idle solenoid, which makes more sense.

OK, I put 12 volts to both the IP solenoid and the cold advance terminal, and tried again. No luck. Manual says you have to have a good fuel return line (low back pressure), so I simply pointed the detached fuel return line into a cup and tried again. No luck.

What else can I do to try to get fuel out of the injection pump? Please help me get this thing started!

:banghead:

Brad

[rowdy235]

bad injector pump? Sorry don't know a whole lot about diesel but there must be some way to test it.

[budojeepr]

bad injector pump? Sorry don't know a whole lot about diesel but there must be some way to test it.Well, for now I'm hoping one of our local diesel-heads will pipe up with wiring directions. :D

[budojeepr]

Never mind, I got a link to the wiring on another forum. Also a bit of instruction on bleeding the air from the fuel lines helped. :p

Video clip (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/?action=view&current=106_3715.flv)!

[dd76522]

sweet!! looks like this thing is really comin along well!

[The PIG Smith]

I am glad you solved that wiring/starting issue.
You are now the default Go-2-Answer man for Diesel Wiring! HAHAHAHA

[budojeepr]

I am glad you solved that wiring/starting issue.
You are now the default Go-2-Answer man for Diesel Wiring! HAHAHAHAYou'll get what you pay for...I wasn't thinking when I first started it (exulting, actually). Then turned off the key and it still ran...I'd jumpered the wire on the injection pump. Just took off the jumper and it died.

The wiring is deceptively simple - starter, fuel pump, and injector pump solenoid are all that are needed to run. Glow plugs, alternator, oil and water temp, etc. are just extras. Granted, without glow plugs you'll probably burn up your starter, but...

[budojeepr]

Well, I was nearly ready to back it out of the garage for the first time Sunday, when I remembered to check the lug nuts on the front axle (I'd left 3 off and the other three loose on each wheel while it was up on jack stands).

I shut it off, tightened lug nuts, cleared junk off the fenders and from around the wheels, and went to start it back up. CLICK. No start.

Did some testing and found that the starter solenoid pops out as it should, the starter won't turn. Don't know why, but a 24-year-old starter from Oregon can go bad suddenly.

I checked AutoZone and Kragen, and both have starters available, $179 and up for remanufactured units. !!

Checked eBay, and got a BRAND-NEW one for $84.95. Shipped today already, shipping is $30. Pays to shop around, I guess.

[JeepinPete]

I am really looking forward to seeing how this does for you. How much clearance do you have between the back of the heads and the firewall?

[budojeepr]

I am really looking forward to seeing how this does for you. How much clearance do you have between the back of the heads and the firewall?Hey JP, sorry, I never saw your reply. I've been waiting for the starter to come in...I moved the engine back as far as I could without clanking the heads into the firewall. I'd say there's about 1/2" clearance now.

Coupla updates...

- I found out for sure that the stock heater core and fan won't fit with the turbo on.

- The new starter works great. Dual battery setup works great (second battery is in a case in the back). Glow plugs work. Electric fuel pump works. Lights, fan, other accessories work. Yaaaaaaay.

- I started it up tonight, backed it out of the garage (for the first time since February?), putted up and down our private road. Sounds good. Yaaaaaaaaay.

- It still needs more ATF?? I've got nearly 3 gallons in there now!

- Leaks a bit of coolant from the bottom hose where it's clamped to the water pump. Gonna see if the clamp needs tightening.

- Leaks a bit of oil where the bulkhead fitting (hose from the turbo oil outlet) goes into the oil pan.

- Power steering and hydroboost brakes work just fine.

[budojeepr]

Well, I've buttoned up the oil leaks, taken care of (most of) the loose wires, and reassembled the big parts. After I took the pics below, I put on the hood and took her for a drive today - took the dogs out to the local "nature preserve" for a bike ride/dog run, then off to the store to pick up a couple things.

This vehicle is MUCH more fun to drive than my diesel Jetta! :drivin:The dogs think so too.

It's really strong, I can hear the turbo whine, and since it's only got a 3" or 3-1/2" downpipe and no exhaust pipe or muffler, it really sounds like a hotrod. The 4-speed auto works great except I have to start out in first and then go through the gears manually. I wonder if I set up the valvebody with a full manual setup. I'll have to go look at the steps I went through again.

I'll take a video next time I drive it, but in lieu of my venture into Hollywoodland, here are some pics:

It was a beautiful day, temps in the 80's, light breeze. GF's on a trip out of town, so it was a nice peaceful day. :D
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/106_3723b.jpg
If you squint you can see the Mercedes pusher fan in front of the radiator. Works like gangbusters!

Oil cooler is in the 2nd headlight hole in the driver's side. I'd like to find a couple of those headlight guards they put on the Baja 1000 trucks for those holes.

Had cardboard down because I wasn't sure if I'd fixed the oil leaks - valve cover, bulkhead fitting into the oil pan...
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/106_3724b.jpg

There's a lot in that little engine compartment!
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/106_3726b.jpg

Dig the Ace Hardware/AutoZone air intake plumbing.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/Diesel%20Wagoneer/106_3727b.jpg

I still have a bunch of things to do.
- I'd like to get that full digital dash setup. Current gauges do not work properly.
- Figure out how to put in an EGR valve, if it's required by CaDMV.
- Get water injection system. Maybe wouldn't need EGR if I have water injection.
- Figure out how to get heat and A/C.

This of course presupposes I still have any ready cash during/after the holidays.

[budojeepr]

Here are a couple videos I took with my digital camera this morning...:thumbsup:

I haven't had the exhaust made yet, so the downpipe terminates just under the front passenger side floorboard.

Enjoy! :drivin:

Link: Leaving the driveway (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/?action=view&current=106_3734.flv)

Link: Cruising 55mph (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/?action=view&current=106_3735.flv)

[Mikel]

Here are a couple videos I took with my digital camera this morning...:thumbsup:

I haven't had the exhaust made yet, so the downpipe terminates just under the front passenger side floorboard.

Enjoy! :drivin:

Link: Leaving the driveway (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/?action=view&current=106_3734.flv)

Link: Cruising 55mph (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z176/budojeepr/?action=view&current=106_3735.flv)

Wow, that sounds so much better than my can-full-of-marbles :rolleyes:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/bw1339/th_MOV04253.jpg (http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/bw1339/?action=view&current=MOV04253.flv)

[budojeepr]

Wow, that sounds so much better than my can-full-of-marbles :rolleyes:
I couldn't see your speedometer, but it's encouraging that you're passing other cars! That never happened to me when I had the 258 in it. Perhaps I'll experience that pleasure soon. :p

[budojeepr]

OK, let's close this thread. The rig's essentially done, and anything interesting that happens later can be shared later.

Here's the list:

Was: '81 AMC 258
Is: '94+ GM 6.5L diesel (turbo added)

Was: TF 727 auto transmission
Is: GM TH700R4 auto transmission

Was: Vacuum-boosted brakes
Is: GM hydroboost brakes

Engine work:
- Major cleaning job
- New (reman) heads
- New injectors
- New glow plugs
- NOS intake manifold for turbo
- NOS exhaust manifolds for turbo
- New gaskets
- GM-5 turbo from GMC Yukon
- Jeep 6-blade cooling fan (original GM had 5 blades)

Transmission work:
- Major cleaning job
- Transgo full (not Jr.) shift kit, set up for diesel
- Derale extra-capacity pan with cooling tubes
- New TV cable

Transfer case (Jeep NP208) work:
- Major cleaning job
- Rebuilt with new bearings and seals
- Transferred GM input shaft to Jeep case to handle driver-side drop

Other stuff:
- Oil cooler from 5.7L Grand Cherokee
- Aftermarket transmission cooler
- New diesel torque converter
- Aluminum cross-flow radiator from Summit Racing
- Stainless steel radiator hoses
- Modified Jeep fan shroud
- Dual batteries (one in rear)
- Homemade air filter manifold for turbo
- Novak transfer case adapter to allow correct clocking
- Full 3-inch exhaust with single glasspack muffler
- Downpipe and crossover from eBay
- Balance of system from local shop
- B&M shifter, mounted on driver's left floorboard
- Stock GM glow plug controller
- Stock GM lockup controller
- Seats from Chevy Astro van
- Seat covers from Grocery Outlet ($6.99!!)
- Mercedes pusher fan for auxiliary cooling
- Autometer electronic turbo boost gauge

My first real test-run was last weekend. The Jeep performed admirably, with great power and smooth operation. The turbo works great, it stayed cool throughout (although the outside temps were in the low 40's). Got 18.3 mpg, mixed mountain, dirt road, and flat highway.

It still has one major problem: Sometimes it will not start when warm. Cold starts are a breeze; run it for a while, stop, and it will not start after a few minutes' rest. I believe it's a fueling problem, perhaps a leak in the supply side, but it's hard to diagnose.

Potential problem: I may yet go for a professionally-rebuilt transmission. I'm suspicious of it because I don't understand autos all that well, and I worked on it anyway.

Inconveniences: No heat. No A/C. No stereo. Crap interior. No 4wd (need to re-gear front axle). These things will be rectified as time and money allow.

Major future show-stopper: still need California registration. I'll write that one up separately.

Things I'd like to add:
- Water injection.
- Stronger cooling fan.
- Manual wastegate controller.
- Manual torque converter lockup controller.
- Aussie lockers, front and rear.
- New paint - thinking matte black on lower half,
blue to match interior painted surfaces on upper half.
- Headlight rims, covers for big holes in front fascia.

Joys: Pulling out into traffic, the only worry being the hope that I don't spin out. Cruising at 75mph with no effort. 18 mpg (hoping to boost that with various small adjustments). Driving a Jeep instead of a VW.

If anybody has any questions about the swap that aren't answered in the rest of the thread, feel free to PM me.

Cheers,

Brad