Is my FSJ EMP-proof?

[Schlagger]

Crazy question I know, but if there were an Electro Magnetic Pulse or something similar like a strong solar storm, etc., would my 84 Grand Wagoneer still work, or are there too many computers? What about my '79 chief?

Just something I always wondered about...I'll put my aluminum foil hat back on now and await response from the electrical gurus.:D

[Lindel]

There aren't any "computers" on either of them if they have the 360. I'm not versed in the 258, so I'll let others talk about that.

That's not to say a big enough EMP won't disable the electronic ignition, but I don't think it's likely. If you have a newer stereo, all bets are off for it.

[Gambler68]

No.

Points would be, but even the oldest FSJs had some sort of solid state ignition control that would fry if I understand it all correctly..

Now..if you parked it in a concrete bunker..sure. :D

[Schlagger]

Both have the 360

[mattmopar440]

Just encase your ignition module in lead :D

[AlsChopShop]

generally the only time you'll have an EMP is in a nuclear explosion... in which case the inability to start your car will be the least of your problems.

now we could have a non-nuclear EMP (NNEMP) but its much more unlikely and won't be very widespread and is not strong unless you are very close to the detonation area.

as far as how a vehicle would be damaged... its my understanding that as long as there is no power (parked) it would be fine. your clock would fry though. what i'd like to know is if an EMP have the ability to de-polorize magnets? if so... how is a distributor effected?

Al

[Schlagger]

My clock is already fried :thumbsup:

[Kali]

ok pulling this one randomly out of my memory, but didnt popular mechanics run an article a while ago where its possible for terrorists to build a 400 dollar EMP that could knock out NYC. The only catch was getting it airborne IIRC.

Anyone else remember that article?

[DanHS]

According to an episode of FutureWeapons, a small nuclear weapon designed to create a powerful EMP, detonated at the right altitude could actually knock out most electronics in the lower 48, if I'm remembering it correctly, maybe it was just one half the 48, or maybe they were just making it up for television. Anyways they said it was a really big area, enough to have a disasterous impact on the rest of the country. Thing is, one first has to have the means by which to design, build, and then launch said nuke to the right location, and that's not really very likely. There may be many who would like to do it, but ultimately cannot or will not.

Anyways, I think a non running vehicle with a simple ignition control like an FSJ would funtion afterwards, but computer circuits are far more delicate and would be damaged by the electromagnetic pulse, and a running vehicle would have it's circuits destroyed. A vehicle with points doesn't rely on any circuitry, so it would just continue to run. On that episode of FutureWeapons, Mac drives a 90's Taurus through an emp field which knocks out anything that relys on computer circuits. The headlights and windows worked afterwards, the radio, clock, and ecm did not.

I'm no expert on computer circuits, electronics, and electro magnetic energy though, so don't take my word for what it would do to anything that uses any kind of complex circuitry or computer circuits, that's just my speculation from what I understand on the topic.

[spaulding]

Imagine a world where only those people who drove FSJ's had operating vehicles just because each and everyone of us have 2 or 3 (up to 12) "spare" ignition mods.

[Heckofadeal]

HELP me justify the expense!!! Would a vehicle with one of the non computer controlled diesels survive such an attack? :)

[goldhammer]

If the circuit for the glow plugs survived, no reason a pre-computer oil burner would not run forever.:)

Note to self- store spare ICM's in lead lined box.

[drlocke]

The EMP would have to be of fairly high energy with a lot of that energy in higher frequencies to affect my Wag that much. I think my MB would start, but that nothing else would work right.

Most newer cars have ignition modules that would probably be compromised by such an event.

Again, as someone posted before, this would likely be from a nuclear event, and a man might be more concerned about why his wife is bleeding than whether their cars would run or not.

[bigun]

No.

Points would be, but even the oldest FSJs had some sort of solid state ignition control that would fry if I understand it all correctly..

Now..if you parked it in a concrete bunker..sure. :D Wrong young grasshopper it would need to be in a Faraday cage! A well grounded copper grid cage.

[yankeedog]

the problem is the current associated with the pulse.if you ever get the chance to look at the inside of an ic chip you would see a circuit which is connected to the pins on the chip by wires smaller than a human hair in diameter.EMP will simply vaporize these wires.solid state devices such as transisitors and diodes do not have these internal wires and are pretty much emp proof.the ignition system you have is what i would call EMP resistant. the ignition coil ,and the module should survive a pretty good jolt.as they are designed to be current handling devices.probaly the inductive pickup coil would fry first since it is not designed to handle any large amount of current..if you want to be EMP proof you need to run igniton points.so to put it short and swwwt anything with an integrated circuit will probly be toast anything transistorized might not ,and anything mechanical would survive.

[Gambler68]

Wrong young grasshopper it would need to be in a Faraday cage!

hmm well since most concrete bunkers are built with rebar inner structure, couldn't one find the grounding point and hook up some current to it? :P

Cars and aircraft. When lightning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning) strikes an aircraft or a car the electric currents induced on it are forced to travel on the outer skin of the vehicle's body. If you were in a car, and the car got struck by lightning, it is not in fact the rubber tires that would save your life. If the lightning can jump from the sky to your car, then it can jump from your car to the ground. What actually happens, is by being enclosed by the car's cabin, the lightning travels around you, though the conductive frame of the car. This is because the car forms a Faraday Cage. Other signals such as mobile phone signals penetrate the skin of cars and aircraft because the wavelength (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavelength) of the signal is significantly smaller than the holes present on the surface of the conductor (the windows). The BBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC) television program Top Gear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear) once sat the presenter Richard Hammond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hammond) in a car while it was struck by a simulated lightning bolt of 800,000 volts at the Siemens High-Voltage lab in Berlin.


doesn't relate totally to EMP but that sure makes me feel better about wheeling in thunderstorms :P :P

[DieselSJ]

HELP me justify the expense!!! Would a vehicle with one of the non computer controlled diesels survive such an attack? :)

If the circuit for the glow plugs survived, no reason a pre-computer oil burner would not run forever.:)


The glow plug controller (at least on my 6.5) is a fairly stout unit with no "sensitive" electronics. Even if it did fry, a manual controller is super easy to build out of an old Ford style starter relay.

[bigun]

faraday cage

http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/emp_and_faraday_cages.htm

[Stuka]

Only engine that is EMP proof is a crank start diesel. Although a gas engine with points could be made to be EMP proof, but you would still have to crank start it.

[shackwrrr]

you talk of crank starting. but what about having an air starter like to old trucks. could one be made from a starter with a bad motor by adding a air motor from a tool or something.

[BarryL]

EMP will knock out any electronic circuit with silicon chips unless it is "hardened". That includes the ignition control module on Jeeps and the electonic ignition parts. Thos items can be knocked out by simple static electricity.:D

[Schlagger]

Well, so far I've gotten answers indicating that my electronics can be knocked out by anything from static electricity to an atomic bomb. I guess some more research is needed in this area-for those who care anyway!

[Rednex4x4s]

Actually in the case of the Faraday box.The product inside must be insulated from touching the box by sometning IE paper wood foam ect. In the case of a vehicle,Your best bet would be to own an early model no computerized diesel engine vehicle like the military H-1 Hummer.Or just an old chevy truck with a 6.2 diesel.Everything else if you would just unplug it some things will survive some wont but most of your less complicated things IE older FSJ's will be ok if not plugged in or running at the time of the explosiion. Now the problem is will you know if and when this will happen Probably not.As far as the detination over the US it would tke a 20 megaton bomb detinated 200 miles over the US to wipe out the electronics in the whole country and then some.

[jeepfan93]

Yes I remember that one and its scary. But if you recall the rebuttals form the readers, everyone agrred that if it were that easy they would have done it already.
ok pulling this one randomly out of my memory, but didnt popular mechanics run an article a while ago where its possible for terrorists to build a 400 dollar EMP that could knock out NYC. The only catch was getting it airborne IIRC.

Anyone else remember that article?

[Rednex4x4s]

The hardened thing is very complicated and doenst always work.

[jeepfan93]

And like Al said If your that close, be worries about being immediatly incerated and your ashes being scattered across the dessert.
But what i want to know is that you live in new mexico,and your asking tjis, you know something we dont't

[Rednex4x4s]

Exactly Im really not worried about it cause if you do live through the Nuc. then good luck cause the chance you will live long after that slim to none and how boring would that be.Not to mention I personally dont know anyone with a bomb shelter and enough food and water and a way to filter the air for oh say 16 to 24 months.

[Schlagger]

I think a strong, centered solar storm is more likely than a nuclear event, but with the crazy stuff happening in the middle east lately, you never know. It would be nice to know that my vehicle could survive such a storm.

I'm not some crazy nut job with a bomb shelter and a safe room, I just watch too much Discovery channel. :D

[mdill]

OK so everyone is buying in to the EMP pulse thing, lets get real.

If a nuke goes off some where close, there are a couple issues.

1) Radiation, in low doses IC memory will get corrupted, in higher doses latch up may occur, but only if the chip is under bias at the time. Satellites just shut down while a big event happens and wait for it to pass, that plus some other design techniques allow them to survive.
Now our stuff has no such protection so if the truck is running the ignition module may fail, the digital clock also, but little else.

2) EMP It is just the current induced in closed loops to resist the change in magnetic field though it. Given most everything in our trucks is in a steel box (leaky as it is) that will attenuate the field to a large degree so I don't see much effect on any of our systems, chip wires are small but the enclosed loops are also extremely small, don't see that as an issue.

Carry a spare module in case you are driving while the event happens, some iodine pills and if you are too close to the event you have no worries either.

Ohh, and remember only head shots work on Zombies


Mike D.

[Rednex4x4s]

X2 on the Discovery channel.

[Rednex4x4s]

actually if the parts arenot insulated from the metal box IE Farady box it will not work they will ground to the box but hell your still in a boat load of trouble if any f these such things happens so what the heck.BTW check out that HLS terror watch list it says IFSJA in big print.

[rustywagoneers_com]

OK so everyone is buying in to the EMP pulse thing, lets get real.

If a nuke goes off some where close there are a couple issues.

1) Radiation, in low doses IC memory will get corrupted, in higher doses latch up may occur, but only if the chip is under bias at the time. Satellites just shut down while a big event happens and wait for it to pass, that pulse some other design techniques allow them to survive.
Now our stuff has no such protection so if the truck is running the ignition module may fail, the digital clock also, but little else.

2) EMP It is just the current induced in closed loops to resist the change in magnetic field though it. Given most everything in our trucks is in a steel box (leaky as it is) that will attenuate the field to a large degree so I don't see much effect on any of our systems, chip wires are small but the enclosed loops are also extremely small, don't see that as an issue.

Carry a spare module in case you are driving while the event happens, some iodine pills and if you are too close to the event you have no worries either.

Ohh, and remember only head shots work on Zombies


Mike D.

great info, and stuff I very strongly thought about in the past.

While studying EMP, I came to the conclusion that I would keep a spare:

Ignition module, alternator, ignition coil, and starter solenoid (and starter relay, if equipped - also, a spare shutoff solenoid if 6.2 diesel powered - the cold housing pressure advance I would live without) in a couple of 50-cal ammo cans. (properly grounded ammo cans, and the components would be insulated - aka faraday cage)

Reasoning being, that if the 'event' was far enough away that EMP was light in my general location, that I could make any repairs (if necessary) while getting everyone loaded up and giving them their potassium iodate.

And if the EMP was bad enough to melt starter wiring, then most likely our proximity to the blast radius would have negated any further need for operational motor vehicles.

As far as Zombies go.... the previously rotted state of most of their flesh will make them fairly easy on a deer strainer... just remember what the motivational poster said.


'Preparedness - Because those G@wd-D@mned zombies aren't going to kill themselves'

peace
Dave

[yankeedog]

you could always of course keep an extra module ,coil and pickup stored in a metal box.

[mdill]

Dave caught what I missed, the alt in our rigs may fry on a radiation hit, It is under bias at all times. So install a batt dissconnect, that should save it from the radiation hit.

I wonder if the ARB bumpers are Zombie rated ? How about a plow blade ? what is the energy differance required to plow zombies vs. say a foot of heavy snow ?

Mike D.

[aerocorey]

Would my 6A survive?

[scantar]

Would my 6A survive?


The EMP or the zombies?

[aerocorey]

The EMP or the zombies?

:lol:

The EMP. No question that Herc is zombie-proof.

[cajun_lad]

Holy cow. This thread needs to be dissected and recomposed into 2 different threads in its own category. One for EMP, and one for zombies, both in their own "Things you may want to discuss but will never happen in our lifetime, so why bother?" category.

Oops, I just contributed ... just call me a hypocrite. But seriously is this thread about EMP or Zombies or are the 2 somehow related? I'm so confused. :confused: Guess it's a good thing I started my SOA w/ 4" lift spring project. With this much lift, my BJ's Dozer bumper should sever those zombies' head clear off!!!!

[Jeepstress]

OK - overzealous FSJ zombies smashers now have their own thread. :rolleyes:

[Gambler68]

One could hypothesize that there is equal likelyhood of zombies or an EMP attack, but it's never a bad idea to plan for it :P

With Chavez rallying southern american countries against us, just think of hordes of Haitian zombies walking out the ocean, coinciding with a high altitude ballon deployed EMP burst. It could happen! You all would be screwed! :D

[SteelHorse]

easy solutions:

To survive an EMP - transplant a cummins 'B' series and be done. You don't even need an alternator to run those things...unless you want int/ext lights, or you can recharge your battery daily.

To survive a zombie attack - watch "Shaun Of The Dead" - take notes.

[incommando]

If the circuit for the glow plugs survived, no reason a pre-computer oil burner would not run forever.:)

Note to self- store spare ICM's in lead lined box.

What self-respecting diesel has glow plugs??? LOL :D

[chrisnsarah]

I see a future Mythbusters episode in this thread:D . They already debunked the myth that cockroaches aren't the most hardy nuclear survivors.

[Rednex4x4s]

Man this is great . I really gotta get out some more though or I might start taking some of this seriously.

[AlsChopShop]

so EMP's cause zombies? or is it that zombies are not effected by EMP's? :huh:

Al

[Eugene 1]

generally the only time you'll have an EMP is in a nuclear explosion... in which case the inability to start your car will be the least of your problems.

Al

:funny: :lol:

[rustywagoneers_com]

Although I am enjoying this thread, for the humorous value of it, there are also factual concerns as well. I took me a lot of time of sitting and thinking to come to the point of view I expressed in my previous post.

When you first uncover information, it tends to take up a large part of your focus, and eventually you can balance everything back out again. (IE, going from the falsehood that we are invulnerable and 'it could never happen here' to the 'chicken little - the sky is falling' and then finally to what appears to be the rational point of view).

The truth is that indirectly, here in the USA, we are taught that a 'nuclear war' is the defacto end of everything. Indeed for many people and in many places, it would be.

However, in the 'former' Soviet Bloc nations, those kids who are our age were always taught growing up that the great takeover of everything would START with a nuclear exchange. Just big enough to paralyze (mentally) the survivors in the opposing nation.

Then, in about 2 - 3 weeks, when the 'hot spots' and the 'cool spots' are fairly easily identified, you go ahead and put boots on ground, and raise the glorious flag etc etc etc.

Will it ever happen in our lifetimes? I sure hope not. But to say it is impossible, would be folly.

The solar activity thing, just as possible as the limited nuke exchange.
Zombies, well, hey, if things ever got that crazy, all bets are off...

Not to be a big buzzkill, because I am having fun also.
peace
Dave

(SingItWithMeNow.... 'Duck!........ and Cover...')

[Lindel]

Now, the next question to answer. Is an EMP FSJ-proof...;)

[mdill]

Now, the next question to answer. Is an EMP FSJ-proof...;)

Would this be a real FSJ or the "ideal" FSJ ?
A real FSJ is a non conductor as the Fe2o3 (rust) will not do much to stop or slow down a EMP pulse.
Now an ideal FSJ huge lump of conducting iron will absorb and dissipate EMP.

Mike D.

[Gambler68]

This thread was better pre-zombie-segregation :p

[chr1s]

those guys/girls out in Colorado cant even deal with vapor lock... how in the h3ll are they gonna deal with an EMP? :lol: :rolleyes: :thumbsup:

[Jeepstress]

those guys/girls out in Colorado cant even deal with vapor lock... how in the h3ll are they gonna deal with an EMP? :lol: :rolleyes: :thumbsup:

Doood...... :mad: I have never vapor locked. Now the boys....... well..... whatever. :whistle:

Play nice, Chr1s.... as high priestess I could prolly raise my own army of the undead and be Queen of the Zombies! Mwaaahaaahaahaahaaaaaaa :bluelaugh:

[chr1s]

those guys out in Colorado cant even deal with vapor lock... how in the h3ll are they gonna deal with an EMP? :lol: :rolleyes: :thumbsup:

there.. i fixed it Krista :D

[Jeepstress]

there.. i fixed it Krista :D

What a nice boy! :D Now I won't have to have my minions eat your brain. :cool:

[chr1s]

What a nice boy! :D Now I won't have to have my minions eat your brain. :cool:

ya know.. im just gonna leave that alone... i just am :eek:

:angel:

[rustywagoneers_com]

What a nice boy! :D Now I won't have to have my minions eat your brain. :cool:

Somebody NEEEDS this for a sig line....