removing inner kunckles is hard work!

[scotty]

this aint FSJ tech,but i thot the fabricators amongst us might want to toss some ideas around.

im attempting to build a hyrid front axle for my xj,with either cj 30 or 44 inner knuckles(or knuckle yokes if youd rather call them that ;) ) sos i can use different outers,and eliminate the sealed bearing hub assembly and end up with lockouts.

i have managed to remove the inner kunckles without magor damage to either of the axletubes. now the cj 30 inners will slide right on the tubes,but the u joint ends up further out,due to the funky shape of the xj knuckle. custom inner shafts arent an option,as i want to keep my disconnect. i therefore need to move the inner knuckles out from where the stock ones are,so i can position the u joint properly inside the iner/outer knuckles.

i was hoping the ID of a 44 would be the same as the OD of the 30 tube,so i could just cut the tubes off a 44,make approprite length,and slide em on.however,from what i can see of the 44 tube,it is only about 1/4 more OD than the 30
tube,and the ID is waaaay small. like alittle over 1 3/4 inches. too small to fit over the OD of 2.5 on the 30 tube,and not really enuff OD to machine out the inside out so itll slip over. hmmm. i may have to use 30 knuckles after all,but find some tubing that fits the OD of the xj,and a piece the same diameter of the xj tube,and sleve it together.looks like a trip to the metal yard is in order.

i brought an outer knuckle downstairs,sat a 44 spindle on it, and am now wondering why i dont just make an adapter for the jeep spindle? i could make it from a flat plate and a piece of tube the same OD as the ID the hole in the knuckle. the spindle is small enuff i could notch it to clear the 3 bolts that would hold the adapter to the knuckle. i could put studs in the
adapter,just like the stock 44 knuckle,and make the hole in the adapter just big enuff for
the protusion on the rear of the spindle. then the bolts wouldnt really be supporting any
weight. if i put the 44 stubshaft in the spindle on the knuckle,allowing for about 1/4inch
or so adapter,looks like the u joint would be in about the same spot as the stock stub
for the sealed bearing hub.of course, 297x inners would still need to be obtained to hook to the 44 stubshaft. then theres the issue of brakes,and wether the bigger rotors would hit the arms on the knuckles...

ur thots? smile.gif

[CowKiller]

to much to read, but sounds like a big project.

[bigblack'74]

scotty keep us posted as my roomate and myself have had the same idea for his TJ

[gsmikie]

http://www.moserengineering.com/images/hompage/Moser_Home_1.jpg moser will shorten and respline any axel and give any bolt pattern you want i use to use them all the time he use to shorten and respline a axel shaft for $53.00 on a 72 hour turn around just to open a whole new world he also does tranny shafts

[scotty]

that would be fine for the driver side,but the pass side has the disconnect,wich is not really shorten-able. the outer part of the inner axle with the splines is HUGE,and has a hole in the middle with a little bearing that a little nub on the inner part of the inner shaft slides into.anyway,the big fat splined part(where the coupler rides that connects the inner and outer parts of the inner) necks down drastically after the splines. in order to shorten,it would have to have enuff fat part to machine splines into. it doesnt. from what i can gather the shafts will need to be about 1" shorter in order to simply put the cj 30 inner knuckles in the same spot on the xj 30 tubes. definately cannot shorten and add anther inch of splines to the outer part of the inner axle. :(

ur thots?? smile.gif

[krob725]

www.currieenterprises.com (http://www.currieenterprises.com)
much easier
tongue.gif

[gsmikie]

moser also will build you anything you want

[Panther]

scotty, whenever I read these posts I get confused but I like it because I like piecing things together and doing custom stuff too. You can have theories as to how you think it will work but you never know until you get there. That axle has 2.5" tubs and you have to shim an extra 1/4" for the CJ knuckles? I probably shouldn't ask questions but should just read along and watch the suffering, lol
So you ended up using 44 outers and 297 joints?
Sure currie or moser could build something but why pay them for all the fun of making this work yourself?

[bvibert]

Originally posted by Panther:
Sure currie or moser could build something but why pay them for all the fun of making this work yourself?Thats exactly what I was thinking :D Why pay them so that they can have all the fun? tongue.gif

[Sundowner]

....why don't you just cut the brackets off of the 30 and weld them onto a 44?

[scotty]

gsmikie,i tried to get moser to make me some custom,no-neck down shafts for my d70,and they didnt want anything to do with it. i doubt theyll want to have anything to do with making me a shorter outer disco axle. and if they would,i prolly wouldnt want to pay them what theyd want for it.

krob725,sure it would be easier,but see panthers response. its not about being easy,its about the fun,challenge,and feeling of satisfaction of making it myself.

panther- the cj and xj d30 use the same diameter tubes(2.5"). i could right now attach the cj 30 inner knuckles to my xj housing and put it toghether with a set of shortened inners.

the 44 looks to use about 1/4 inch or bigger diameter axletubes,therefore the 44 inner knuckle is too big to slide onto the xj 30 tube. until i take some actual measuremnts,it looks like the inner knuckle will need to sit right about where the tube ends. that why i need to figure out how to space them out.imthinking maybe ill just find some tube with an ID that fits the OD of the 30 tube and simply enlarging the hole on the 44 knuckle to fit that OD.

my goal at this point is to simply use the cj spindle,rotor,etc. so i can use the stock 260x joint inners. i have 2 spare sets of those :D at some point i will try and find some inners that accept the 297 joint sos i can use 6 lug stuff with internal mount lockouts.i currently have all the cj parts in stock,so as soon as get the knuckles figured out,the expense of putting it together will be minimal. cept for maybe having to buy some kind of tool to set caster...

this will leave me with a 5 on 5.5 pattern. i have 2 narrow trac amc 20s(fsj versions-plus a 3rd set of spare axlehsafts) so ill possibly use one of them in the rear with the 5 lg pattern drilled into the flange. or maybe ill keep the 35 and not worry about the different patterns. havent got that far yet... tongue.gif

sundowner,id thot about that,but its way easier said than done. the driver side control arm mount is part of the pumpkin,and even if it was safe and easy for me to weld something to the cast pumkin with my mig welder, methinks it will be ALOT more work to get all those barckets in just the right spots on a 44 than simply using the 30 and swapping the inner knuckles. removing them is the most tedious part,and ive allready got that done,tho im still sore from the hammering. its not like you can slap it on and have it drive worth a crap when dealing with steering/suspension geometry.

further,i dont think a 44 is worth the work. i thing the reverse cut 30 is pretty comparable to the standard cut 44 as far as gears go,the 44 shafts neck down almost as much as the 30 at the smallesst parts of both,so if i beef up the housing i think the rev cut 30 is pretty comparable strengthwise. strong enuff,anyway,as this is(as i have to keep reminding myself ;) ) after all,my daily driver,not my trail rig. rev cut 30 should be pelnt strong for 31s and street driving,with the occasional mild off road excursion.

ur thots? smile.gif

[Bob Barry]

Scotty:

I don't know if this would be any easier, but it's another way to appoach this. Instead of pressing the outer knuckles off and on, would it make more sense to adjust the length of the tubes themselves, by pressing the old ones out of the pumpkin and pressing in longer ones? Of course, I don't where you'd source longer tubes from, but I guess plain tubing stock would be a starting-point, maybe using two stock tubes spliced together on the long-side with some tubing with the same I.D. as the stock tube's O.D.

Just throwing things out there.

[scotty]

the control arm brackets and spring buckets must remain where they are on the tubes,so making entire new tubes would require the removal and reinstall of theses pieces in exactly the right spots. not really worth the work,i dont think. if im gonna go thru that i may as well just add the brackets to a 44. since the brackets must remain in their original places,i have about 2 to 2.5 inches of tube outboard of each spring bucket to work with.im thinking putting a piece of tube oustide of the xj tube,then using the 44 inner kuckle on that is gonna be the way to go...

soon as im off the 'puter im heading to the metal yard to see what theyve got or can get...

ur thots? smile.gif

[Bob Barry]

I think the easiest course of action, in the end, will simply be to weld the XJ attachment points to a D44. If you can talk about cutting the ears off the ends and sleeving the tubes to weld on the D44 outers, then you're certainly in the realm of the time, skill and effort required for relocating brackets.

[Panther]

How about leafs and a shackle reversal?

Forget those goofy coils, they're over-rated and more trouble than it's worth. Too many silly brackets and arms, buckets, too complicated and are they really that much better in the end?

I know several of you will disagree, guess I'm getting impatient and confused with this axle swap....
Lee

[scotty]

i may swap leaf springs into it in the future. i may attempt to put the coil brackets on a 44 in the future,just to see if i can do it. for now tho,i want to figure it out from this angle smile.gif

ive found some tubing the snugly fits the axletubes. i now just need to figure out what 44 inners to use. ive got a jeep housing here,and achevy housing and a scout housing i need to to round up and check the inner knuckles on.

also keeping in mind this is my daily driver. if it were my trail rig,them coils and this cute little 30 would be gone :D

panther,patients,my son-ive almost got it figured out! tongue.gif

im still not sure why,dr bob, you think it would be easier to add brackets to a different axle? the control arm brackets are not perpindicular to the axle,they are at angles,so those angles would need to be right,as well as the relationships to each other and to the coil buckets. and they would all have to be placed on the axle in the correct relationship to the inner knuckles for the proper caster. plus the track bar bracket,and the sway bar mounts. the track bar and sway bar would prolly be not too bad,but if i compare the control arms and coil buckets(6 brackets total) to 2 inner kunckles,its not such a tough choice for me. the knuckles will be easier to get inthe right spots-theres only 1 way they fit on the tube ;) then all i gotta do is twist em tongue.gif

maybe im just not a good enuff communicator/typer to explain what im doin... :confused:

ur thots? smile.gif

[Bob Barry]

I understand what you're doing. I just keep taking you up on your "ur thots" offer... ;)

I just guess the whole thought of upgrading a D30 in any way, shape or form is somewhat alien to me. Sure, you'll be able to run six-lugs up front, and you'll have a stronger spindle, but you could match a 6-lug rear axle simply with a wheel-adapter.

Go for the sleeve, though; it does sound like your best bet.

[scotty]

i gotcha,dr bob ;) as a fellow fabricator and do-it-yourselfer, your opinions have alot of weight with me,so i just wondered where you were comin from. weve got at least 2 more of these rev cut 30 housings layin around,so i may end up doing the bracket swap one day,as that sounds like a fun project as well. i just like the expierence i get from different things. lots of times cutting and repositioning the inner knuckles can be needed to keep stock caster angles while changing pinionangles,and now that ive doe it,it was lots a work,but defiantely nothing to be afraid of. id go so fars as to say id rather grind/pound off a set of knuckles than i would grind off a set of axle perches! on a leaf sprung axle would be easy as pie-only real reason i had some trouble is i couldnt get my grinder in some spots due to the freakin' coil buckets,so i had to cut thru part of the knuckle with my sawzall :eek:

ur thots? (keep em comin...) ;) smile.gif