An Ethanol Thread

[Fiodh. Argus]

I converted my FSj to Propane a year or so ago, but am finding it still expensive because it's a petroleum product - the price keeps rising!

One of my dreams in the next two years is to buy some decent amount of land, about 100 acres, and in addition to building my own Mad-Max compound, I would love to try to brew some of my own ethanol. I don't care if it's not as practical for the country at large as a replacement fuel source, ethanol seems it could be very practical for a small personal collection of cars in the future, when oil gets too pricey and everyone else is driving hybrid electrics etc...

I have heard we can get about 70 gallons per ton of straw using a still like this...

http://e85machines.com/

they are quite affordable actually and one of the problems I am thinking about would be how to make it powered by SOLAR instead of wasting more fossil fuels trying to brew the stuff. Like possibly using a solar oven or some solar cells hooked into a battery and water heater element.

here's a link to a wiki page about solar ethanol stills, I just joined the yahoo group.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Solar_Ethanol

Has anyone here made ethanol yet? or converted their vehicle to alcohol fuel?

[FSJ Guy]

They've been making ethanol for years. I think it used to be called MOONSHINE. :D

[Gambler68]

Solar panels are still really pricey..big ones START at $500 each..


course you could always go liberate them, they're all over the place.

Of course, only after the Mad Max era starts and it's a free-for-all ;) :D

[drlocke]

Stilling alcohol is in the end a serious time sink. And does require some energy to do it. At the extent of development of technology thus far solar energy is for the rich only. If you're rich enough to consider it then you shouldn't have issues with fuel costs these days. Dollar for dollar it is the most expensive form of energy by far. Most that live "off the grid" and generate their own electricity using the sun have spent a cool fortune on the equipment, and are "making a statement" more than anything else.

Operating a distillery may work for you if:

1) You have a lot of spare time on your hands, and...
2) You have a wood lot, or perhaps access to the scraps from a lumber mill or such--cheap wood scraps for firing the thing....

3) You have a way of keeping the operation well hidden from the prying eyes of busybodies and John Law.

[Fiodh. Argus]

It's actually legal here in CA to brew your own ethanol as long as you make it non-drinkable after manufacture. (of course I would do that, ociffer!) If you are making a large amount, there is a home fuel permit available.

I am curious if there are ways to automate the process - maybe create a large tank with a sludge pump at one end and just scoop the organic matter in, and have the alcohol flow out at the other end...

it may not seem financially necessary right now but the figures I have read show that ethanol can be created for $1.50 a gallon even if you buy molasses instead of using your own organic materials. Mainly I want to be off the teat of the corporate giants in two years, especially energy companies and also I want to be 85% cleaner than petroleum. Since my studio is at home, I don't drive to work or do long commutes so if 30 gallons could be created every two weeks that would be MORE than enough for me to enjoy my cars and get me where I need to go.

Let me say that again - $1.50 a gallon. That's more than half price these days! And it's 85% cleaner!

the stills in the link above make 30 gallons a day, more or less. I would certainly be willing to manually operate a still for a day here and there, while I'm working on stuff nearby. I could make enough to sell to my friends too.

heck, I might end up selling my propane setup soon to fund the still.

Here's some ethanol friendly fuel hose...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AER%2DFCC0320&N=700+115&autoview=sku

and a fuel filter...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AEI%2D12304&N=700+115&autoview=sku

and a fuel pump....

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D12%2D815%2D1&N=700+115&autoview=sku

and a carb conversion kit...

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+115+324006&D=324006

and a page about converting a carb to alcohol...

http://www.hardtail.com/techtips/alcoholconversion.html

sort of an interesting research project. Even if it cost $5000 to create a small home ethanol plant, it would still be cheaper than buying a new car, and I'd get to drive my jeep for as long as I want.

[Marvin Gates]

We, me and some friends used to use alcohol when racing motorcycles, a long time ago. If the properties of ethanol are the same as alcohol, it takes a lot more to run an engine than gas. We had to drill the jets out to at least double or more in size to get the motor to run. And if you have a fire, you can't see the flames burning, its hard to put out a fire that you can't see. Other than that and the exhaust will make you sick as a dog, its not a problem. :eek: :D :D

[orangecherokee]

And if you have a fire, you can't see the flames burning, its hard to put out a fire that you can't see.

Anyone else have a Ricky Bobby flashback? :eek: :D

I say go for it. I've also heard it takes more fuel to run which in production cars it means they have to fill up more frequently. I don't know if there's any validity to it though. For the amount you drive, it sounds ideal.

[Fiodh. Argus]

here's a great link I forgot to post...

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id1.html

A good friend of mine just came over and was insisting that we should try making fuel from the local slash -wood chip piles so perhaps we'll split the cost of a still early next year.

That "Charles 803" model seems promising. Can't hurt to try! (except for the invisible flames, that's never good)

[Lindel]

Before you get all excited about ethanol, read this:

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_ insight

[Fiodh. Argus]

these negative ninnies don't know beans ... why so down on it? and again I'm not talking about national fuel policy, I am talking about small scale production and use.

ME!! ME ME ME ! it's all about ME!

actually i am curious why everyone insists on E-85? - I want to run straight pure alcohol. Maybe have to have a top fuel dragter instead? That would be awesome to get groceries in.

is the 15% gasoline required for some reason?


I realize there could be a slight drop in power and efficiency but I would deal with it in order to be making my own fuel. making my own fuel, yeah!

[xsonmyeyes]

If I remember my physics 100 class correctly from college (there was alcohol invovled then too...but I digress), the energy you put into making a fuel (or whatever) will be the same -or less- than what you get out in the end, no matter what the process is because of loss of energy due to heat,ect. I'm all for "getting off the grid" and if you can justify the cost and the danger of burning a wood fire near alcohol for the pay-off of some low-cost fuel, I say go for it! BTW, you'll have a nice side buisness in the 'shine industry if you are so inclined :cool:

[Towtruck]

I hope your heat source for the process is environmentally friendly. Sounds like you'll be dumping carbon based polutants into the atmosphere at a pretty good clip. But then I'm sure you'll have a scrubber on your smoke stacks.