Help! Buick power in my '66 Glad

[Green Giant]

I have been given a '71 LeSabre with a very nice low milage 350 Quadrajet. I have not had a chance to confirm tranny but believe it is a TH350. It's very dark in the garage and I had only a small flashlight to peer under a car that sits on four very flat (get this) bias ply tires. My rig has 327/TH400/D20 combo presently. The more I research the subject of the Buick/Jeep relationship, the more confused I get. My questions are:
If by some miricle the car has a TH400, can I bolt directly to the D20?
If TH350, can I bolt to TH400 directly or do I need an adapter?
If I need an adapter, where can I get one?
I know of all the hurdles I face such as exhaust, radiator, driveshafts, etc.
Any help, advice, BS, etc. would be appreciated.(easy on the BS part) :D

[Crazy_Jeepman]

As far as I know the Bolt Patern on the rear of the TH350 is the same as the TH400, I am not Positive but think that is the case. So it should bolt up no problem. ;)

[Crazy_Jeepman]

The only thing other than the boltpatern that may cause a problem is if the LeSaber used a long or short tailshaft. So that would have to be considered. ;)

[Erix Jeep]

The bellhousing of the BOP 350 is the same boltpattern as the bellhousing on the BOP 400.

In other words, you should be able to simply bolt the engine up to your existing BOP patterned 400 with no adapter.

Generous Motors made them interchangeable that way.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>The bellhousing of the BOP 350 is the same boltpattern as the bellhousing on the BOP 400. <hr></blockquote>
This is true except the TH400 in the Jeep was never BOP, it is a Nailhead bolt patern. Adapter is in place between the engine and trany, AMC to Nailhead, or NailHead to BOP adapter. Example my 70 Wag has the 350 Buick and to bolt it to the TH400 there is an adapter, My 72 Parts wag has the same trans and uses an adapter to hook up to the AMC 360. I can not be sure on what is between the AMC 327 and the TH400 then if there is an adapter it would be a simple matter of replaceing the Adapter between the engine and trany with one from a Buick powered FSJ you will also need the Flexplate and spacers as well.

[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: Crazy_Jeepman ]</p>

[Erix Jeep]

YIKES,,,, sorry guys, wasn't trying to lead anyone astray! (Eric goes crawling back to dark corner to listen/observe!)

:eek:

[Green Giant]

FSJs are rare in this part of the world, I doubt I would be able to find anything from the '70s much less the 60s. Anyone just happen to have an adapter they want to part with?

[Green Giant]

Don't worry about it Eric, that's the way I feel most of the time. Sometimes I feel kind of ignorant when I'm on this forum, but these guys understand and are very patient, that's what makes 'em GREAT! smile.gif

[Green Giant]

Change that, MOST times I feel ignorant. One of my favorite sayings is "I don't think I understand everything I know" :D

[Crazy_Jeepman]

LOL hey don't feel bad. I learned that the hard way. Wondered why I could not bolt one up. Nothing worse than standing there scratching your head looking STUPID &lt;---do that well. :eek:

[Green Giant]

Jeepman, I've definitely got that one down pat. :D

[Banks]

CJ,was the 327 an AMC bellhousing pattern? Marc :cool:

[Rande]

That stupid look is one many Jeep owners master very quickly. ;) :D Within 2 weeks of buying my first FSJ, I had it down pat!

http://www.jwjeep.com/index.html

Try these guys for that Buick adapter. The adapter consists of the bellhousing adapter ring, flexplate spacer. Flexplate, not flywheel.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>CJ,was the 327 an AMC bellhousing pattern? Marc <hr></blockquote>
Yes it is an AMC bolt patern. However it is on its own. No other AMC Bolt patern matches it. ;)

[miked]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Green Giant:
Anyone just happen to have an adapter they want to part with?<hr></blockquote>

i know of one here in CA that could be parted with, i think the guy wants $75. if you're interested i can put you in touch

[miked]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:<hr></blockquote>

This is true except the TH400 in the Jeep was never BOP, it is a Nailhead bolt patern.

i think its officially called a cadillac pattern

you will also need the Flexplate and spacers as well.

yep, very true

and there was an accurate suggestion about tailshaft length, you might be able to take the tailshaft from the old th400 and pump it into the new case

[porchpiggy]

Green giant, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Buick transmission is more likely a TH400, and I'm not sure if you caught it (from reading the thread) but it may be easier to adapt the Buick TH400 to fit your D20 case as opposed to adapting the Buick 350 to fit your AMC TH400. Swap the 350 and Buick Transmission without haveing to come up with an adapter, then make the output of the Buick TH400 look like the AMC400. Slap on the D20. :cool:

[Bigums]

Okay, so lemme see if I've got this straight....

I've got the Buick350/TH400/D20 combo. I've never looked that closely, but there's an adapter in there, yes?

Here's my main question: I'm leaning towards a big block swap. Would a Buick 455 bolt right up? With or without the adapter? What about a Caddy 500? Olds 455? Pontiac?

Okay, so that's 5 questions.... tongue.gif

Can anybody clarify? TIA!!!!

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Yes you have an adapter between your trans and engine. The adapter is a Buick Olds Pontiac (BOP) patern. So yes the engines you mention will bolt up. However you will need a flex plate spacer. ;)

[jeepbob]

The bolt pattern on the early T400 was a Buick only thing, Caddy used the same bolt pattern as 348 chevy then switch to the modern B.O.P.C. pattern. The newer Buick motors went to the pattern when the nail valve replacement motors came out (350, 455 etc) If the Buick car has a short shaft t400 in it then your D20 and adapter will bolt right in place of the tailstock of the tranny. However if it has a T375 which is T350 guts in a T400 case you will have to get a T400 or adapter for your existing T400. 78 to 83 Caddys had just the tranny you are looking for. If the Buick has a long shaft T400 then you will have to put a short shaft out put shaft in it. You could use the one from your existing tranny.
Confused yet? :D

[Bigums]

Just slightly... :D

Okay, so If I find a '78-'83 Caddy with a big block, the motor will bolt right in (not really, but for arguments sake)? Or the motor and tranny will bolt right to my D20?

I think what I'm getting at is, am I looking for a engine/tranny combo to eliminate most of the headaches, or will just finding the right engine make it happen?

Thanks to you both for replying.

[Blackjack]

Green Giant,
Why don't you come up to Mass and you can have my 350, T18, D20/60 set up. Then you'll know it will bolt in plus you'll have a real tranny not a slush box! See my post in general discussion on my '71 J4800.
Marc

[jeepbob]

If you find the 368/472/500 caddy motor with the short shaft T400 then your t/case and adapter for the t/case will bolt right up to the Caddy tranny.
If you get the nail valve buick to buick 350 adapter for your tranny then any late model rear drive Buick (V8 or V6), Pontiac, Olds, or Caddy V8 motor expect those made by chevy and the 151 Pont 4cyl will bolt up. You could even use a Caddy ht4100 if you wanted.

[DrChop]

I just did the Caddy 500/TH-400/20 swap into my '28 (which uses a '76 J-10 chassis). Jeepbob is correct, your easiest option is to use a '77-up short tail 400 from a Caddy, and simply remove your tailshaft housing (6 bolts) and bolt up your 20. You can use any '70's Buick, Pontiac, Olds, or Cadillac engine with this trans, giving you a good pick of engines to choose from.

That said, I should have put the Caddy in my '28 earlier. The 500 is GREAT for getting it moving, even with 4.11's in the axles and 38.5" tires.
I could never get the tires to spin with the stock 258, now it's an everyday thing if I breathe too hard on the Go pedal... :D :D :D

E-mail me at drchop@hotmail.com if you have any more questions about the swap, I'll help out however I can. I'm also in process of moving my website from Geocities to www.angelfire.com/extreme3/drchop (http://www.angelfire.com/extreme3/drchop) and plan to get some pictures of the Caddy driveline swap up there soon.

Doc

[Green Giant]

Thanks for the info. Porchpiggy, I'll cross my fingers and get some light so I can find out what tranny I have. If I DO have a 400, how do I change the tailshaft? The only thing I've ever done to an automatic is change the filter. But I'm willing to try since I'm gonna swap anyway. :confused:

[66 Gladiator]

a quick clarification on the "BOP" TH400 Jeep trannys. Those slushboxes are UNIVERSAL cases and were sold to a lot of non GM auto makers. (rolls, jag and others) The adapter ring mounts a BOP bolt pattern to a GM UNI TH400 case. A similar adapter was also used for a brief time behind the 360 when AMC took over. I believe the same ring was used with the jeepster V6/TH400(yes they were TH400's!)

So, the easy swap is to get the original adapter ring that was used for the '68 to '70 or so B350 powered FSJ's. That's not too bad of a swap.

Buick used the TH350 behind the small blocks and used the TH400 behind the big blocks, so I am sure your doner is a TH350.