Spindle Nut Removal

[Troutnut]

I am beginning the job of replacing the front wheel bearings and front axle u-joints on my 77 Wagoneer with a Dana 44. I found the tech article on in it our tech library and it referred to the "locknut removal" tool needed and said to just fit it onto the nut and reef on it to remove it. I purchased a new NAPA #2467 4 Wheel Drive Spindle Nut Wrench for the job ($21.49!) which appears to be a weird looking black and poorly made socket with 4 lugs that ALMOST fit into the 4 lugs on the spindle nut..(better description below)

The first try resulted in it almost engaging the lugs and one shaved female lug on the spindle nut as the tool slipped off the nut. Subsequent tries seem futile and dangerous to the nut.

Did they sell me the wrong tool or are these things just made to fit all trucks a little bit and none very perfectly? Any tips before I strip the lugs on the spindle nut and really get myself in hot water?

I've put a description off a socket such as I bought below...

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Your friend in Montana

Dennis
(4-Wheel-Drive Spindle Nut Wrench (Octagonal)
(SKU# KDT-2467)

3-7/8" octoganal spindle nut wrench. This four-lug wrench removes spindle nuts on a wide variety of Chevy, GMC, Dodge and Ford 1/2 and 3/4 ton 4-wheel-drive vehicles. Features uniquely designed lugs for maximum strength. Use with 1/2" square drive tool.

Wrench fits spindle nut on Chevy, 1/2-ton GMC, Blazer, Bronco, Bronco 11, Ranger, Explorer, 1/2- and 3/4-ton Ford, spline-type hub, IHC 1100 series and 1/2-ton Dodge vehicles. Will work on Ford vehicles with ratcheting type lock nuts on front axle.)

[Celadus]

For what it's worth, my $50 snap on socket fits just as poorly.
Finally got mine off by holding it as square as possible and using a 2 foot breaker bar and slapping it with the palm of my hand.
Good luck.

[Bob Barry]

The socket that our Jeeps use is perfectly round, and has four little "tangs" sticking out to engage the slots in the locknut.

The socket I bought also has a ring welded around the circumfrence of the socket, which slides over the outside of the round spindle nut and positively locates the tangs in the slots. I've never had any trouble breaking the nut loose with this one, but I've never tried one without the ring.

[Snakeyes_Tx]

The retainable ones are nice.. the ones like most of us have SUCK period. Here's what I did to make it a little easier.

I took a file and shaved just a hair off each edge of those little legs on that socket. That way it wasn't an absolutly tight fit (sometimes the paint on those **** sockets make the leg too thick to fit on the nut!!!)

Then, you gotta hold that thing PERFECTLY square to the ground or busted knuckles will result. Use a breaker bar and pull slowly. One hand on the breaker bar, the other hand over the socket to help keep it in place! It'll come out.. trust me... when you do the TWO on one side, you'll get the hang of it for the other side ;)

[andy d]

yup, last spindle work, decided to rent a socket from a-zone. didnt work. i resorted to my earlier shade tree hack method, a screw driver and a hammer. torqued it down by feel. 6 months 3000miles later, there are no funny noises and the wheel hasnt fallen off :rolleyes:

[Troutnut]

I finally figured out why the socket didn't work...It is completely wrong for our Jeeps, but close enough you can make yourself nuts trying to make it work.

After much fiddling, I figured out that the lugs weren't even engaging the lugs on the nut. The exact cause was hard to determine because I was working in the blind. After about 10 trips to the old electric grinder (which caused me great heartburn because of the $22 cost and a long trip back to town) I finally got it ground up enough to work good.

Here were my problems and solutions:

1. The inside diameter was very slightly too small. I put a chamfer on the inside edges of the lugs tapering from smaller to larger to help lug engagement.

2. The lug pattern on the socket does not match the lug pattern on the nut. With two of the lugs engaged, the other two were off by perhaps 1/8 inch. It was completely impossible to engage all four lugs. This took a substantial shaving of the lugs inside edges until a good fit was obtained. The resulting lugs are probably half the width they were when I bought this thing.

3. Because this was made to fit other rigs, the face of the socket inside the lugs was a wavy uneven mess making it difficult to get a secure feel when it was mated up with the nut. Grindered that all pretty flat except for a deep semi-circular indent in between each lug.

Once you have one of these nuts in your hand, and the grinder...its not too bad to convert it to a tool that works. I plan on taking photos and getting this up on a web page as soon as I can get to it in case others have this problem.

Thanks everyone for the ideas and help. "Smokey" (the 77 Wagoneer that turned into a fire truck during the big Montana wildfires last year and probably saved our home) and I sure appreciate this site and all of you.
http://yourphotos.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_photo&pid=70882

Your friend on Montana

Dennis

[Troutnut]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Troutnut:
[QB]I finally figured out why the socket didn't work...It is completely wrong for our Jeeps, but close enough you can make yourself nuts trying to make it work.

Took the spindle wrench back today and discovered that NAPA sells the correct wrench for $16.99. They didn't even know they had it...I found it myself in an area they don't look I guess. The main guy there (who is normally great) said he's been selling the wrong one forever and I'm the first one to notice. The right one still doesn't work as good as the #2647 socket I customized with my grinder...

[Driftwood]

I bought my socket at NAPA. I used it on my 84GW with no problems at all.

[nograin]

Bob Barry,
Do you remember what brand & part number the tool is that you have?

[Michael]

You have to make sure it is square on the bolt. It is best to spray some degreaser in there so it will not be so slick. You have to use some force to get them loose. Like I used a rubber mallet and a breaker bar. I few pops and it came loose. They are torqued to something like no more that 50 ft/lbs. Do not quote me. With that you would have to use some force. Good luck.

[Bob Barry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nograin:
Do you remember what brand & part number the tool is that you have?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I just went out to the truck to check, but all it says on the socket is "Not for Impact Use", and I don't believe I saved the packaging (it was a few years ago that I bought it).

I think it was a K-D or Lisle piece, though; I just picked it off the shelf at Pep-Boys, so it's not an esoteric item.

That retaining ring really does make it easy to undo those nuts; it was worth the extra $5 or so over the cost of the ordinary socket.

[nograin]

Thanks. I had a lot of confusion at my local store. None of the 3 or 4 variations are designated for Jeep. The GM ones have more complex pattern, so it was easy to rule them out. They have one in stock with a 'sleeve' but it is fixed - doesn't slide. If its wrong, it will be difficult to modify.

I might to wait until I open the hub up and use some dividers to get some measurements.

BTW. Seems to be difficult to cross reference the AMC tool numbers. Bummer.
This one is J-6893-D if anyone wants to try however.

[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: nograin ]

[Bob Barry]

That's the one; the sleeve on my socket is a ring welded to the socket, with the four prongs enclosed within the sleeve.

And it won't be listed for Jeep; it will be for a '73-'87 Chevy/GMC 1/2-ton or something like that.

[nograin]

The tool that works (spindle nut remover for Dana 44 manual and permanently locked hubs) is...

OTC No. 7157 (made in the USA)
The O.D. (on the locknut & nut) 2.18"
Inside of the notsh is 1.905
It does have a collar welded on. and boy that helps when trying to turn the wheel and operate the torquewrench.

Other applications for the tool are:
93 up Ford Ranger, Bronco II, Exploder w/ manual hubs
95 up F, 1/2 ton. 3/4 ton, 1 ton & Full size boncos with manual hubs
59-85 F 1/2 ton. 3/4 ton & full size Broncos with manual hubs
60-90 GM 1/2 ton, and full size blazers/Jimmy
69-72 International 1/2 tons
69-89 Dodge 1/2 ton with manual hubs.

BTW. Autozone no longer has the tool if they ever did.

[64Trvlr]

I've been using an OTC 7270A for years and it works great.
:cool:

[nograin]

So either they are the same (except IIRC the 7270A doesn't have an outer ring/sleeve) or different ones for different years?

The 7157 fit like a glove. I brought the lock ring with me to the store that had one in stock. (it wasn't even screwed on and fell out when I opened the hub) :rolleyes:

Oh yes, the PO had quite a mechanic.

[Charly]

What the heck are you guys talking about?

I've only seen two general variations of this socket (not including the ones for the early CJS which is just a 2 1/16" hex socket) the 4 prong (over many years, I've never seen a different four prong pattern, i believe there is only one) and the 6 prong (which is for 3/4 tons etc).

Then there is a combination socket which has both (expensive).

The four prongs (there are both internal and external versions, but I've seen both work fine) cost only $10 around here.

The one I have fits perfectly on my '85 nuts.

Charly

[nograin]

OTC 7156 has a larger diameter and otherwise looks the same (about 1/4"). No way will it work. (I tossed the sheet with the exact measurements.) I also measured an open (non-collared) versions at the local Autozone and the only four pronger they had would have just barely caught the lockring. Possibly the same size in theory, but a cheapo tool, or maybe actually not the right thing.

I don't think the problem is that it was rare, but rather no one knew that is was the right one for this application. :confused:

[River Beast]

I got mine from a mom and pop store in 94 far a K% I had... I guess I got REAL lucky....I have one that cradles the nut perfectly every time and I have used the dogsnott out of it.... I paid $15.99 :D

[Dan G]

You wouldn't believe I just did this whole thing last night without looking at the board. (Stupid of me!) Anyhow, I took a very scientific measurement with my pinky and index finger and guessed at the three sockets on the wall at Pep Boys.

I got the right one, however, there was a bit of metal flash on one of the 4 teeth that was causing it not to fit. A bit of scraping with the screwdriver (the file was too far away) and it fit perfectly. Also, I didn't need a breaker bar, or that much effort, was it on too loosely? From andy d's post, using a screwdriver, I can't be too far off on the torque.

It was $12.99 and is a "Performance Tool number W1269, 1/2ton 4wd wheel bearing locknut tool" for all kinds of vehicles, but Jeep wasn't listed. It has the outer ring which makes aligning it a bit more difficult at first, but once it's on, it's got a great grip.

[nograin]

Tight will probably work on the locknut. The official number is 50 ft lbs or greater. The spindle nut is 50 ft lbs and back off 1/6 of a turn (45 degrees will do) while turning the wheel. (Then adjust a wee bit to get the perferated washer to pick up the slot and the pin in the wheel nut)

[CSmith]

I struggled with the same problem a month ago. I finally stumbled on the right tool: KD #2467 at NAPA. It does not have the outer ring, but is a quality piece that engages properly. You DO have to keep it square with one hand, so I can see the advantage of the outer ring. The packaging does not mention Jeep at all, so remember the #2467.