Jeep at the track today

[Ghinmi]

Just as the title says, finally got some track time with the Wagoneer today. I was driving back from a car show and saw the track was open. It happened to be a test and tune day, so $20 and a tech inspection later I was on the track. It was pretty empty and I was able to take 9 runs in under 2 hours. Times are as follows:

14.9300 @ 93.17
15.0330 @ 91.81
14.9431 @ 92.54
14.8742 @ 92.75
14.9119 @ 92.77
14.8329 @ 92.78
14.8761 @ 91.99
15.6169 @ 87.55 (accidentally left it in drive)
14.9440 @ 92.78

Things I learned:
1. Running WAY rich. If I launch hard off the line I get a good 60' but it stumbles and runs slow (see the MPH on my second run). I have to ease on the throttle to get any kind of pull through the lower part of first gear. Since I wasn't planning on racing I didn't have any tools and couldn't do any tuning. It will run a good bit quicker if it can get off the line decently.

2. It will light up the tires past the burnout box. Everyone with street tires was driving around the water box and dry hopping before staging. I tried it in emergency drive and spun the tires pretty good. People were taking pictures the next time I ran.

3. Emergency drive does NOT like speed. Transfer case made bad noises going over 40 or so in emergency drive. Ran in normal drive for the rest of the night with no noises. I had to deal with the front tires spinning off the line but it didn't seem to affect my times.

4. Running in drive sucks! Car in front of me left wheels up, then took a hard left. Had to shut down and wait for track cleanup and when I started back up I instinctively put it in drive instead of first. Worst time of the night by far.

5. No one expects a Wagoneer that runs decent. I know 14's aren't exactly fast but everyone was really surprised. I could make some money decent money surprising the ricers.

6. It's WAY too heavy. To be exact, 4370 lbs with me (150 lbs) in it. I've got to do lots of little things to lighten it up, remove rear seat, swap to aluminum bumpers, etc.

7. Could use lower gears. With 3.54s it's just starting to pull in third as it crosses the stripe. Could use 4.10s or so.

All in all, a pretty good first time at the track. At least now I know what I've got to work on. Sorry I didn't get any pictures, I was there on my own and didn't have a camera anyways. I want to go back next weekend and I'll get pics then. :fsj:

Greg

[Jeepstress]

3. Emergency drive does NOT like speed.
HOLY CRAP!!

Transfer case made bad noises going over 40 or so in emergency drive.
NO $HIT! :omfg: I sure hope you got a spare transfer case. :rolleyes:

[Dmntxn77]

Not bad... I bet one of those ricer drivers made an mpeg of you racing one of his buddies.. Might find it on youtube..

[DanHS]

Nice times, lighten that thing up and get some better gearing and a part time t-case, perhaps you'll get into the 13s. I wonder what times my Chero would get.

[Ghinmi]

There wasn't really much rice at the track this time. I've been there before when it's overflowing with 16 and 17 second ricers. I did beat up on a celica though.

As far as the transfer case, it's just bucking because it can't differentiate the power. I can see where it could take it's toll over time but I only did it once. If quadratracs are as strong as Flint says they are I should be fine. :rolleyes: I've got a few spares anyway.

As far as going quicker, I think with enough tuning and little stuff I can cut a fair bit off the times. Going to a full time 2wd setup would probably help a lot too. I've already got a straight tube front axle, I just need to have a 2wd tranny built and find a rear axle. Don't know how far in the future that is but it will happen. I've got a few things I'm going to do for next week and see what happens. I'll get some pics and vids then too.

[FSJ Guy]

You DON'T need E-drive at the race track!!!!!! (Or on any hard paved surface)

You'll destroy your t-case, drivelines or axle shafts if you do! :eek:

[jeeping1974]

its your jeep, run it how you want and where you want..... but i have to agree with the others. when you get a new case, get one with a part time kit in it and then take it back. i wish that i could drag mine but its not inspected or regsistered and i'm not too sure if it'll pass tech inspection at the local strip.

[Gambler68]

awesome :thumbsup:

When I got my 79 Chero, the PO said 'watch this'..put it in 1st and TROMPED IT, and shifted up through the gears. It sold me on the rig. (so did driving 800 miles to get there).

I haven't repeated that, but that's the one time I really really remember feeling power in the thing.

If you're going to be romping at the track, why not build a Th400 that will let you hold gears and shift properly? That and some fenderwell headers..would make ricers poop.

Shoot, if you can't wheel it..drag it! :thumbsup: :drivin:

[Millerluck]

Thats cool Greg.

Was it the track on the way up to the sand dunes?

Get some pics next time for sure.

Larry

[PlumCrazy]

Shoot, if you can't wheel it..drag it! :thumbsup: :drivin:

Man after my own heart.

Good showing on a two ton rig "BIG THUMBS UP"

Wayne S

[Ghinmi]

Just to clear things up, it's bone stock except the engine. I know there's a lot of things that need to be looked at but I just wanted to see where I'm at.

Like I said before, I only did one run in emergency drive to combat spinning the front tires. I'm not planning on doing it again. I still do use emergency drive to clean the tires before the run. A part time kit isn't going to help me much, if at all. The only advantage you get is not turing the front diff and driveshaft. It's still turning the transfer case. Plus I won't have nearly as much traction. Might even be slower.

As for the transmission, I'm not going to waste my money on it while it's still 4wd. When I drop the money on one it's going to be 2wd. I'll get a pair of drag radials to get the traction back.

No fender well headers for me, I'm actually thinking of running ful exhaust out the back with resonators at the end to quiet it down. People won't know what hit them.

Larry, it was the track in Martin (just north of Kalamazoo). It runs right next to US131 so you can sometimes see some racing as you drive by. How far away is it from you? Sure would be cool to have a 'running of the Wagoneers' someday.

[fulsizjeep]

Impressive. :cool: :thumbsup:

Have you installed manual hubs for the front yet Greg? I would not run Edrive like that in 4WD, only with hubs unlocked or front shaft pulled. Actually, for the 1/4 mile runs like this, I would remove the front shaft anyway. That will decrease rotating mass and weight. ;)

Oh, and where are the 4 wheel burn out pix? :D

[Stuka]

e-drive is perfectly fine for a straight line, it only binds up when turning. But I would NOT run it in RWD for drag racing. AWD is a HUGE help when launching. My cherokee would smoke the rear tires when I launched it.

I am surprised your wag only weighs 4300 pounds? My cherokee weighed in at 5000+ wit me in it. Although I had a larger tires/aftermarket bumpers. But I would expect them to be closer, the bumpers are only 50 pounds or so.

Nice runs though.

[jeeping1974]

Shoot, if you can't wheel it..drag it! :thumbsup: :drivin:

thats what i want to do with the next j10 that i get. build it into a street/strip truck. it would definetly be different.

[1977cherokeechief]

thats what i want to do with the next j10 that i get. build it into a street/strip truck. it would definetly be different.

HIJACK***you just stole my idea that i have/had with the j10 i am buying, HIJACK***


pretty sweet times you have, especially for a jeep!

[Scoot]

Take the engine out and put it in a gremlin, pacer, hornet, rambler, etc. Just keep that thing away from my Mustang GT!

[fulsizjeep]

e-drive is perfectly fine for a straight line, it only binds up when turning. But I would NOT run it in RWD for drag racing. AWD is a HUGE help when launching. My cherokee would smoke the rear tires when I launched it.

I think I can see your point here Brandon. You are going to have a little wind up in normal 4WD that could cost some time. The spline in the differential brake cones will also take more of a beating with hard launches when it is not locked. I would not be afraid to run a NOS QT and unlock the front end to run edrive RWD though. ;)

[Tad]

I know absolutly nothing about racing but "14.8329 @ 92.78" in something with the aerodynamics of the Lincoln Memorial just sounds impressive.
:thumbsup:

[billyrb]

if you haven't already, spend some money on your braking system before the other upgrades. Do a 3/4-ton front caliper conversion, ceramic pads, high performance fluid, etc. (hydroboost or dual diaphram), and consider a rear disc swap.

Other than that, cool that you took it to the track and awesome to see you improving your rig and running it LEGALLY at the dragstrip. I still can't believe how many idiots post that they raced someone at a stoplight or down a road. Morons risking everyone else's lives. The dragstrip is the only place to do that stuff.

[jeeping1974]

HIJACK***you just stole my idea that i have/had with the j10 i am buying, HIJACK***


pretty sweet times you have, especially for a jeep!

:lol: every since i saw a pic of a N/T lowered and a black j10 built into a street truck i loved it. you'll probably have an easier time finding a j10 in good enough condition though to do it in as the ones up here int eh north east are rusting and rotting away fast.

[Ghinmi]

E-drive, in theory, would work okay in a straight line. Problem is that you will never get the front to turn at exactly the same rate. I would really like to find a way to launch in e-drive, then unlock it as it's going down the track. However, with no vacuum under WOT you can't shift the case.

The braking system is all stock stuff, but it is all new and works well. Keep in mind that I'm running 28" tires. With small tires it takes less braking force to slow down. To be honest, it stops plenty well for what I'm doing. I will be going to rear discs when I go 2wd just for the cool factor though.

For weight, there's a few reasons I'm so light. I have bench seats front and rear, no a/c, no cruise, no power seats, windows, locks, no roof rack, aluminum wheels, no stereo, and no low range on the transfer case. Plus a bunch more that I probably forgot. I could get it a lot lighter by gutting it out but I like having a full interior and such. I still hope to get under 4000 with a full interior (minus rear seat) eventually.

As far as running on the street, to be honest it's more fun on the track. It's too much work to race on the street. It's hard enough to find someone to race, but finding a safe place is hard too. No problems at the track. :) Not to mention the obvious safety factor.

[War Wagon]

Nice runs. I saw this on the net a while back.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/jwillettgn/Drag%20Racing/ProStock.jpg

[1977cherokeechief]

:lol: every since i saw a pic of a N/T lowered and a black j10 built into a street truck i loved it. you'll probably have an easier time finding a j10 in good enough condition though to do it in as the ones up here int eh north east are rusting and rotting away fast.


highjack*** the one i just fund has a great frame and body, the bed is rusted through at the first cross member from the tailgate, then the floors are gone, so somebody just rivited in alunimum(sp) in over the rust!:lol: highjack***

[Gambler68]

hmmm...I have a gutted Cherokee in the garage..and a 401 in someone elses garage..ditch the QT and convert the TH400 to 2wd in there..too bad there's no drag strips nearby ;)

[jeepdad56]

brakes are over rated...:D nice job showing the public what a a jeep can also do...:thumbsup:

[jeeping1974]

hmmm...I have a gutted Cherokee in the garage..and a 401 in someone elses garage..ditch the QT and convert the TH400 to 2wd in there..too bad there's no drag strips nearby ;)

why a th350? get a TH400 out of a FSJ add a 2wd tailhousing and output shaft and call it a day... right after building it to handle globs of power.

[Gambler68]

I was thinking 350 pre-edit because they are lighter by 20 lbs. Then remembered what it costs to get the adapter :P

Greg-found your page here! very cool!
http://www.dragtimes.com/Jeep-Wagoneer-Timeslip-13560.html

[Gambler68]

1/4 mile time:
Trap Speed:
Weight of vehicle
with driver (pounds):

Horsepower @ flywheel = 264.25 HP

that's awesome for a stocker!!

1/4 mile time:
Trap Speed:
Weight of vehicle
with driver (pounds):

Horsepower @ flywheel = 307.27 HP


even awesomer if you're at stock weight perchance!

[Ghinmi]

That drag Jeep is really sweet! Fiberglass fenders, plastic windows, converted to a 2 door, slicks, cage, etc. Something tells me he's got a LOT of coin in that thing. Wonder what he runs?

That dragtimes.com calculator is not very accurate. Here's a better one that shows horsepower at the wheels. The calculators that show crank horsepower will be way off since they're using driveline loss data from 2wd cars.

[Millerluck]

Yeah that's the track I tought it was.

This was in Hot Rod

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/113_0603_jeeps_from_hell/index.html

Later

Larry

[Ghinmi]

Larry, is your Jeep still on the road? It's the last test and tune of the year next weekend (Saturday noon to 6). I have no idea how far of a drive it is but it would be cool to have another Wagoneer racing. :) If not I can totally understand.

Yeah, I've checked into Todd's '73 before. There's some good pictures of him at GAD IV in this gallery. http://cgi.amcforum.net/amcpics?usedir=gad_07&usepage=1
I've been trying to find out how to get a hold of him, I've got a few questions for him. I found some old race results from 2002 where he was running a 9.50 dial in the 1/8 mile. I'm running mid 9.50's in the 1/8 right now before tuning. I'm willing to bet he was running a pretty similar setup to what I have and could give me some pointers. If anyone knows how to get a hold of him, please let me know. Here's my favorite picture of his Wag.
http://amcforum.net/images/shows/gad_07/n/IMG_1557.JPG

[DanHS]

Wow that's pretty cool, but he'd probably shave half a second off his quarter mile by losing that air deflector! :rolleyes: lol

I found some article from Hotrod Magazine (http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/113_0603_jeeps_from_hell/index.html) (http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/113_0603_jeeps_from_hell/index.html)that says he pulls high 11s, and has about 520hp from a 401 bored .060 to 412 with 9.8:1 comp, Indy cyl heads, a somewhat lumpy cam, airgap intake, and 750cfm Mighty Demon carb. Pretty cool. Hmm, now maybe a N/T Chero with a blown 401 with aluminum heads, airgap intake, 650cfm blower carb, the right cam, headers and straight pipes, 2wd conversion...

[Millerluck]

Sorry I have her in my garage for body work.

I passed that track many times on my way to the Dunes.

We'll have to do that next year sometime.

Larry

[Ghinmi]

Well, I just got off the phone with Todd, he gave me a ton of information about his previous setups and what to expect. He's actually really successful bracket racing with it, event wins, season championship, etc. He's thinking of coming up to Michigan next year for a race, maybe that's when we sould round up all the Wagoneers for a track day? He agrees that I should be running quite a bit faster so we'll see what happens next weekend.

[azwagoneer80]

Sweet running rig!! High 14's low 15's are better than most of the ricers I see at the local track here. I think the only time that I could beat anything but a stock honda civic is if it was raining.

[FSJeep13]

I dont know about anybody else, but I'd really like to see someone taking video of you and your black Wag burning rubber... :cool:

[fulsizjeep]

http://amcforum.net/images/shows/gad_07/n/IMG_1557.JPG
Hot diggity. Stand On It! :thumbsup:

[Ghinmi]

I dont know about anybody else, but I'd really like to see someone taking video of you and your black Wag burning rubber... :cool:

I'll see what I can do. :) I've never gotten the tires to spin like that on the street though. Only in the burnout box (driving around the water). It's supposed to rain this Saturday (last test and tune of the year) so I can't guarantee any track vids this year. :( Sunday is supposed to be nice though so I can't get track videos I'll take a few on the backroads (don't worry, I'll be safe). I've got one of those windshield mounted timers and it's fairly accurate so I should be able to get some new (unofficial) times even though the track is closed. I'll keep you guys updated.

In the mean time, here's a video of how it launches. If you've got a good set of speakers you can hear how much it picks up once it gets going. You can also hear how long it takes the tranny to shift. :o Btw, speedometer is not accurate during acceleration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpH9QoVVrAk

[Charlie_B]

I thought I was on my Evo Forums for a minute. Thinking to myself "This cant be a Jeep, he's running something else at the track, or he's talking about a different kind of track..." Nope. Definitely awesome to see a FSJ at the strip. Is dragging your sole plan for the jeep? Or just something to do once in a while in between offroading? Nice times BTW.

Maybe I missed it...but what where you 60' times?

Im guessing around low 2s, then nosing over after the 1/8th. I run 1.7s in the car w/ 13.0 ETs and 105 traps. And that is off par for what my car should be doing.

[Ghinmi]

Yep, I plan on doing quite a bit of drag racing with it. No offroading for me. Too much time and $$ to beat it up on the trails.

Here's a full rundown of my best run.

2.236 --- 60ft et
6.269 --- 330ft et
9.556 --- 660ft et
75.25 --- 660ft mph
12.404 -- 1000ft et
85.37 --- 1000ft mph
14.8329 - 1320ft et
92.78 --- 1320ft mph

It should be doing a lot better off the line. My 1/8 and 1/4 mph are fairly high for the et. The big thing is that the 1/8 is way slow for the 1/4 times, especially with the aerodynamics and 4wd that I have. It's actually picking up time after the 1/8 for some reason. I can get it to launch HARD but it bogs bad and kills my 60'. As it stands right now I can't even floor it until after the 60'. Once I start tuning it, I expect to pick up a lot on the short times and hopefully get solidly into the 13s. Once I get the engine running right then I can start tweaking on the car itself and hopefully pick up some more. We'll see what happens.

Btw, what mods do you have on your Evo?

[Charlie_B]

Mods on the Evo are: 3" turbo back exhaust, boost controller, tubular ex. manifold, bigger front mount intercooler, bigger lower intercooler pipe (hot side), intake, HD clutch, lightened flywheel, steel clutch lines/brake lines, Walbro fuel pump, wideband, and Ive been learning to tune with my laptop (which is probably the biggest reason for it being slower than it should be :( ). The way it sits, it should run 12.5-12.8 @ 110 or so.

I plan to go through it over the long winter with some parts being replaced due being poor quality (peebay junk installed by the PO), and hope to "borrow" and inch or two from the car (coilovers) to put on the Chero (4" lift):drivin: , then R comp tires for Auto-X.

[Ghinmi]

Well, they cancelled the racing today. :( Looks like no more racing until next year. I did rip apart the carb and find out part of what was wrong. It had the right jets but they had been drilled out A LOT. Put the correct jets back in and it seems to run a little better now. Still doesn't do very good off the line but it's better than before. Hooked up the accelerometer and made a quick run. I don't count any of those numbers as hard facts since they're not at a track but they should be pretty close.

2.13 --- 60ft et
6.03 --- 330ft et
9.23 --- 660ft et
77.3 --- 660ft mph
11.98 -- 1000ft et
14.35 -- 1320ft et
95.7 --- 1320ft mph
5.80 --- 0-60

It picked up some on the low end but it's still not what it should be. It won't even chirp the tires anymore but the 60' is better so I guess I'm not complaining. I'm sure the po of the carb did other stupid stuff, now I've just got to figure out what. I'm kind of torn between tearing into this one or just buying a new 750. Guess I've got all winter to think about it. I'll try to get a couple vids tomorrow since it's supposed to be nicer out.

[Elliott]

Maybe drop a Predator on there... :D