Bad front driveshaft angle

[uplandhawaii]

I'm getting close to rolling my wag out to go play but I'm having issues with my front driveshaft.
I have a SOA with 2.5" AAL using a chevy 10 bolt mated to a 727/D300. Cross member clearance is good using standard u-joints but the shaft binds at the yokes. I couldn't run the double carden joint because it hit the tranny pan. Even if I clearance the yokes I still bind when I try to flex it.

So far I came up with a couple ideas to help me fix it: rotate the pinion up by shimming the axle(I'm not cutting or rotating the ears on the axle), get a clocking ring and try and clock it down some.
Would pushing the axle forward and shimming it up help much with the binding? (I have a front crossmember with axle hangers set up to run 52" chevy springs)

Any ideas? I want to get this out and running by bird season!:banghead:

[Dmntxn77]

I rotated my pinion up 1.5 degress (IIRC) when I welded the front perches on.. It helped, but I am only SOA with stock springs...

[jeeping1974]

clocking rings for the dana 300s are a great idea and should be used. also a small shim in the front would help out greatly.

[tylerd13]

I rotated my axle up an inch or so when I was weldin the perchs on and it works fine. it wasn't enough to mess with steering.

[Bob Barry]

I'd use the Chevy-springs to move the axle forward, and ditch the AAL's in favor of trimming the fender.

[BRUTUS]

Any ideas? I want to get this out and running by bird season!:banghead:

OT What birds do you have on the big island? I know Oahu is bird-free because of the introduction of the mongoose... right?

[Casey]

There's a guy around here running a 727/300 with a two piece driveshaft.
It's actually in a stretched YJ with a SOA GW 44 front on Wagoneer springs. If I get the chance again I'll get some pics. I was sceptical at first but the thing works great.

[uplandhawaii]

I'd use the Chevy-springs to move the axle forward, and ditch the AAL's in favor of trimming the fender.

Yeah I was thinking of losing the AAL's, but I already cut 3" off my fenders. I don't want to cut more off, it won't match the rear.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/OahuJeepers/uplandhawaii/HPIM0437.jpg

[uplandhawaii]

OT What birds do you have on the big island? I know Oahu is bird-free because of the introduction of the mongoose... right?

Well Oahu is not totally bird free, there are still areas to hunt quail and dove. On the Big Island I hunt erckel, chucker, turkey, ringneck pheasant(blues, greens,gold), quail, and doves. My english pointer will be going out for her first season this year, my shorthair is semi retired now.
The mongoose did damage the bird habitat but the state eradicates them in all of the hunting areas. The mongoose was a big failure on the part of the state.

[uplandhawaii]

There's a guy around here running a 727/300 with a two piece driveshaft.
It's actually in a stretched YJ with a SOA GW 44 front on Wagoneer springs. If I get the chance again I'll get some pics. I was sceptical at first but the thing works great.

I'd like to see how he has that front shafts set up. I don't think I want to go a 2 piece up front but that sounds interesting.

I just bought my shims, 3,4 and 6 degree steel shims and I'm ordering the clocking ring now. Next day off I'm going to stretch the front using the 52's. Hopefully I'll be able to retain my hi-steer, if not then I'll just go cross over with the 52's, shims and ring.

I wish I could have run the carden joint.:mad:

[Bob Barry]

Yeah I was thinking of losing the AAL's, but I already cut 3" off my fenders. I don't want to cut more off, it won't match the rear.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/OahuJeepers/uplandhawaii/HPIM0437.jpg

Well, how big a tire are you going to be running?

You're not worried about clearance with that tire if you lose the AAL, are you?

[uplandhawaii]

I'm going to stick with the 35's but may step up to 37's when I install the 3/4 ton running gear.
I'm a little concerned with rubbing if I drop it. Right now it'll stuff the tires in the wells and not rub.

Do you think I'll have clearnace problems?

[uplandhawaii]

Still waiting on my shims and clocking ring. But I decided to take out the AAL. The front dropped down a little over 3". I swapped out the small jeep shackles and used chevy shackles, looks to be about an 1" longer. The pinion angle improved a little but clearance on my exhaust and driveshaft may now become an issue.:mad:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/OahuJeepers/uplandhawaii/HPIM0615.jpg
With the way its set up now I will definitely have to use a lower bump stop on the pass side to limit the up travel. The rear is jacked up by a couple of inches, I may leave it this way for when I tow my small trailer.

[10fenny]

i had a similar prob on my 86 blazer wit 38's and 10" lift. two piece driveshafts are the way to go, u dont want any more than 30 degress on the ujoints. two piece just splints the angles

[uplandhawaii]

Got a pic of the set up? I don't know where I'd mount the carrier bearing.

[Stuka]

Why no go with a high angle shaft?

[Slick Willie]

Put the shims in and check clearance before you clock the D300. In other words, do the easy fix stuff, if still no worky, do the hard stuff.

[uplandhawaii]

Why no go with a high angle shaft?
2 reasons, one is the cost of the shaft and shipping and the other is that I don't quite understand what a high angle shaft really is.
When I checked almost all of the references to a high angle shaft was those with a a double cardan joint. Right now with the tranny pan interefence a "CV" joint won't work, the barrel part of the joint hits my pan. I'm guessing the double cardan, "CV" joint shafts are what most wheeler's mean when they talk about high angle shafts.

I was thinking of ordereing up a couple of Tom Woods superjoints to see if that may help if the shims and ring don't work. The cost of them fit within my budget and I can always reuse the joints in another application if they don't work on the jeep.

I'm stuck till I get the other parts in but my next step will be to run the superjoints if the shims/ring don't work. Then failing that I plan to swap out t-cases if I can find a jeep 208.

Thanks for the help guys!

[uplandhawaii]

Put the shims in and check clearance before you clock the D300. In other words, do the easy fix stuff, if still no worky, do the hard stuff.

Thats my thinking as well, I always start with the small, cheap and easy stuff first then work my way up.

[Stuka]

The double carden used on FSJ's is not a high angle joint. A high angle double carden has double the operating range. Or, you can go with bigger u-joints, such as 1410's, which have a huge operating angle.

Oh, and if you swap to a jeep 208 you will also need to swap out the front axle ;)

[Mikel]

Got a pic of the set up? I don't know where I'd mount the carrier bearing.

Wouldn't a two piece shaft severely limit travel? :confused:

[uplandhawaii]

The double carden used on FSJ's is not a high angle joint. A high angle double carden has double the operating range. Or, you can go with bigger u-joints, such as 1410's, which have a huge operating angle.
Okay thats what I was looking at, a double carden shaft. That will not fit unless I clock the t-case down, the double caden joint is just to big a dia. to fit, unless I clearance the pan with a BFH!;)

Oh, and if you swap to a jeep 208 you will also need to swap out the front axle ;)
Yeah I know, I just scored some 1 ton axles too! If I could find a jeep 208 I would have gone that route. I've called all the parts yards in the state and no one has a jeep 208.:banghead: One of the draw backs of living in the islands.

I'm going to make this work, one way or another! I do not want to install the 60 and H072 or 14FF if I cannot use my current set up.
My shims came in so I'll install them this afternoon. I'm sure if that doesn't work the clocking ring will.

I'm glad I have this board as a resource, I haven't met another FSJ owner/wheeler on the island yet!

[uplandhawaii]

Wouldn't a two piece shaft severely limit travel? :confused:

I don't know I have no experience with that. I;d like to see pics though.

[Slick Willie]

U joint maximum operating angles:

1310 - 30
1350 - 20
1410 - 28-37

[uplandhawaii]

Okay got the 6* shims installed, the drive shaft angles looks way better with no binding. I measured pinion angle and its at 10*. Is that okay or too much?

[Stuka]

10 degrees in relation to what?

Also, your steering is going to be very loose feeling with those shims. As the caster angle is now way off, so it will want to wander on the road, and no return to center for the steering wheel.

[JoshH]

Yeah I know, I just scored some 1 ton axles too! If I could find a jeep 208 I would have gone that route. I've called all the parts yards in the state and no one has a jeep 208.:banghead: One of the draw backs of living in the islands.

I'm going to make this work, one way or another! I do not want to install the 60 and H072 or 14FF if I cannot use my current set up.
My shims came in so I'll install them this afternoon. I'm sure if that doesn't work the clocking ring will.

I'm glad I have this board as a resource, I haven't met another FSJ owner/wheeler on the island yet!You can use a Dodge 208 with your 727. I did it with my Cherokee and GM 10 bolt front axle.

[Dirtball]

U joint maximum operating angles:

1310 - 30
1350 - 20
1410 - 28-37

What exactly does this mean? That if you have 1310 ujoints you can just switch to 1410s and have more operating angle? Or that you have to change to 1410 yokes first so that you can use them? I'm quite ignorant in this area...

[Tad]

Or that you have to change to 1410 yokes first so that you can use them?
Yes, you need to switch yokes.
Not sure if that is an option for a Q-trac rig, never looked into it.

[Dirtball]

That's really what I thought, just wasn't sure...

[uplandhawaii]

10 degrees in relation to what?

Also, your steering is going to be very loose feeling with those shims. As the caster angle is now way off, so it will want to wander on the road, and no return to center for the steering wheel.

10* in relations to horizontal, I used the garage floor as my base. The pinion was at 3* before the shims. Using my ball joints as my reference point and my angle finder the center line between the upper and lower are at about 1-2* positive caster.

Do you think thats enough? What did the factory FSJ's have for caster, 4* like most other jeeps?
Since I'm using chevy axles should I try to find reference to what chevy 1/2 tons had for caster?

[uplandhawaii]

In regards to u-joints I'm going to order Tom Woods superflex joints, should give me the extra operating room I need. I already clearanced my yokes as much as I could. With the shims in place the shaft does not bind. If I need to use a smaller degree shim to help with the caster then the superflex joints should help.

[uplandhawaii]

You can use a Dodge 208 with your 727. I did it with my Cherokee and GM 10 bolt front axle.
Did you have to grind something down? I know from what I read here it is not an exact fit, something had to be filed down right?

[Rogue]

can you flip the cardan ( install the shaft bassackerds ) ?

[uplandhawaii]

can you flip the cardan ( install the shaft bassackerds ) ?

I don't know I've never seen it run backwards. I got my clocking ring in so I'm sure I can clock it down to run the carden joint now. I'll see on my next day off.