Edelbrock Intake/Carb Conversion!!

[Stuka]

OK, today I went down and bought a performer intake for a AMC 360, and a 600CFM Edelbrock performer carb. Now I have some questions for those of you that have done this conversion. First off, I went with a non-egr intake (with egr cost 120 bucks more) Do I have to use a spacer with this intake/carb setup? And if so, is there room under the hood to use the stock air cleaner? The intake also came with no studs to mount the carb to it, so I have to purchase some, which pisses me off in itself. Now as for the carb, It says it cannot be used with the charcoal canister, so do I have to remove this altogether? If so, that means I have to change alot of other stuff, change the type of fuel filter I use, and take out the fuel line going back to the fuel tank. Along with the other two lines that goto the charcoal canister. Also, I got a carb for use with a manual choke, which is what my Jeep currently has, but the carb didnt come with the choke assembly that goes on the side of it. And the carb I have (Motorcraft 4350) now has this assembly molded into the carb bottom. Then my Jeep uses a cable for the accelerator linkage, which uses the ball joint to connect. And it's a pressed fit into the accelerator arm on the carb itself, so I cant just un-bolt it off and put it on the edelbrock carb.

So if anybody has done this conversion, PLEASE let me know any problems you ran into, and how you went around fixing them. Normally I wouldent care, but this is my daily driver. So I have to do this all in one weekend. Thanks for any help http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Snakeyes_Tx]

That's strange because the Edelbrock 600 I bought a few days ago says right on the box that the linkage is compatible with all Chevy and AMC throttle linkages. They are one in the same if I'm not mistaken.

I can get you the model number of the carb if you'd like.

As for the manifold, the carb should bolt right up to it with the proper gasket. If you had to, you should be able to stuff a half inch spacer if necessary.. hey, the extra air-flow room is beneficial anyway.

Obviously you'll have to transfer the oil filler tube to the new manifold.

The only thing hooked up to my charcoal canister is the vacuum resivoir ball for the a/c vents.. my can has only room for one line on it.

You *must* take the rivets out and use the valley deal on the inside of the original manifold! IF you don't, you're going to have a whole new mess of oil consumption problems.

I think I have the same linkage for the throttle.. a cable with a ceiling fan chain like thing on the end that snaps to the linkage of the carb. Sound familiar to your application? If so, you should be able to switch the carb for the one with the model number I've got around here somewhere! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif If not, Edelbrock sells a linkage adapter that you can switch yours for.

You'll still need the valley gasket too. 26 bucks at O-reilly.


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http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/sig.jpg

Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"
360/727/208/44HD/60 <- 2nd of all of them.
"If you don't know what the numbers mean, you don't need to be here!"

[401chief]

first off, i have a 1"spacer on mine, and it clears just fine. i think one of the reasons why the intakes dont come w/ studs is because so many people run different combonations of carbs and spacers which all require different stud lengths.
before you install your intake, you need to remove the heat shield off your factory one and trim it down so it fits your new intake.
you probably bought a 1405 carb. if you want to hook out your smog equipment, you need the 1400, which is the emmisions legal carb. your factory fuel line and filter should work fine. as far as the choke goes, i dont know, i have electric choke. for the throttle linkage, i got that little ball stud thing at kragen.


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<IMG SRC="http://www.pixhost.com/pixt/tyson42/jeep4sm.jpg
">
Red '76 Cherokee Chief w/ 401(no cat)
Edelbrock carb and intake
Edelbrock Performer cam
Milidon timing gears
MSD 6a offroad ignition
MSD distributor
Heddman headers w/ dual exhaust
half dead th400
noisy QT
missing glove box
no radio
worn suspension w/ original shocks from 1976
a black fender
and a saggy head liner that hits my head every time i go over a speed bump
tyson42@earthlink.net


"If it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is"

[Ralph]

Stuka, if you want to make it easier on yourself, save up and get the EGR capable intake manifold and carb, parts numbered 3731 and 1400, respectively.

As for the linkage, Edelbrock's 1400, 1405 (manual choke, non-EGR), and 1406 carbs have universal linkage that'll work just fine.

The lamp-chain Snakeyes is referring to is actually just for the cruise control, and if you'll need a bit longer chain if you intend to use cruise control with an Edelbrock carb. All in all, though, the Edelbrock stuff is pretty much a straight-forward swap and very easy to tune once put together.

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J ust
E mpty
E very
P ocket

[Stuka]

Ok, went and exchanged the manual choke model for one with a electric choke. i figure this will be easier in the long run. Also bought the intake carb mount studs, and a linkage adapter kit so it will work with my current cable. And i worked some stuff out, so that it looks like it will all work fine. BTW: my cherokee is a 75. And as of right now vehicles only have to be smogged here when you buy/sell a vehicle. So, I think everything is gona work out ok http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
1975 Cherokee
[/list]
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
360 4v, T18 tranny (with granny)
[/list]
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
Spicer 20 T-Case
[/list]
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
Dana44 w/3.58 Gears and LSD front&rear
[/list]

[Va-Rob]

I'll have to agree with Ralph with getting the EGR manifold. If you havent built the engine to run with out EGR it will never run right with out it. Check back when you have to new manifold and I'll give you the full rendition of my manifold swaps. (done it twice)

Rob

[Stuka]

um.....all a EGR does is recycle gas fumes to get better gas milage. You loose horse power in the process. First thing you do when you supe up a chevy is buy a EGR bypass and block off.

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
1975 Cherokee
360 4v, T18a
Spicer 20 T-Case
Dana44 w/3.58 Gears
[/list]

[Va-Rob]

Ok, Let the pinging begin.

Rob

[bchesley]

My wag does not have the metal hoses that go from the exhaust to the EGR and it runs fine. What would be the difference? I am going to take all the smog crap off when I do a manifold swap. I live in texas!! We have no smog laws in my little town!

BC

[DLyons]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka:
um.....all a EGR does is recycle gas fumes to get better gas milage. You loose horse power in the process. First thing you do when you supe up a chevy is buy a EGR bypass and block off.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is exactly what I thought. I took off my EGR and pitched it in the trash. A week later I noticed that my engine had developed a severe ping. I am currently planning on putting in a mild cam and switching to a four barrel carb. (A Q-jet preferably!) Maybe this will take care of the pinging and get a little more power in the process.


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DaveLyons
84 Grand Wagoneer
74 Grill & Round Headlights
360-727-229-3.31s
2" Suspension Lift
2 1/2" Body Lift(HomeMade)
Krylon Burgundy
Product of "Redneck Engineering"
88 Chevy Beretta GT (Work car, gas mileage, high speed cornering)

[Stuka]

I have taken the EGR off a million chevy's before. if you just take off the EGR off a stock manifold, then yes, it will screw up. but if you get a whole new intake that has nothing too do with the EGR, then it wont. A EGR allows a engine to pass smog by making it run hotter, so it burns more of the gas. So if you ping, its because you are either running very lean, or you didnt block off the ports inside the intake that the EGR uses.

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
1975 Cherokee
360 4v, T18a
Spicer 20 T-Case
Dana44 w/3.58 Gears
[/list]

[Va-Rob]

I'll get on the soap box for a few seconds.. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif)

First of all. A stock amc 360 is not desgined to run without EGR. Period... You can do what ever you like but in the long run you'll spend more money and time trying to get the engine to stop pinging you'll wish you had the EGR.

The EGR is actually not part of the emmisions system but a result of it. With the lower cylinder compression and lower Octane in todays fuel and the lack of lead in the fuel EGR was found to stop pinging or pre-detination.

Doing away with the emmisions system whether required in your state or not just makes you pollute. you won't gain any horse power by disconecting it. I think if you look back through some old post you'll find may more people who are having to restore emmisions systems to pass smog inspections because many more places are requiring it.

If you want horse-power go to a speed shop and have them build you an engine the right way. Other wise just enjoy lumbering down the road in your FSJ.

Rob

[Va-Rob]

Quick corection.

I was incorect when I said the EGR system isn't part of the emmissins system. It is.

EGR It actually LOWERS combustion tempeture.

Rob

[RudyC]

Very true. I had pinging and had no EGR and had to run the holley richer than i liked OR run more expensive gas. I reinstalled the EGR and was able to jet it leaner without running higher octane gas.


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79 WAGONEER (SOLD IT, BUT WILL FIND A LESS RUSTY ONE LATER)
79 DODGE STEPSIDE, 318,HOLLEY STREET DOMINATOR INTAKE, 4BBL HOLLEY,TF727/275X16 GOODYEAR EAGLE GTS
pictures at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1500380&a=11321052

[Stuka]

True, you have to run gas with more octane. Thats a given, my 65 mustang wont run on anything less then 89. I already run my jeep with 89, so it shouldent effect me to much. I never run 87.

[Tom 400 CFI]

Guys,

I've got to go with Stuka here. The ONLY factors that are contributing to pinging on you vehicles without EGR are jetting and timing. MOSTLY TIMING. The factory put the EGR on for the SOLE purpose of reducing combustion temps, which reduces NOx. The result of this was LOWER CYINDER presure during EGR operation. (only at part throttle!). Lower cylinder presure means less power -poor drivability. They factory compensated by adding (calibrating) more vacuum(also ONLY operates at part throttle) advance during EGR operation.

So when you remove the EGR you then have and over-advance timing situation at part throttle, which results in pinging. By retarding your timing, you are curing the pinging, but your timing is not optimized for idle and full throttle.

To properly eliminate the EGR, get and adjustable vacuum advance diaphragm from Summit, and tune it to match your new combo. Pinging at WOT has NOTHING to do with EGR/no EGR, as the EGR NEVER operates in that situation anyway.

BTW the EGR has not been functional in my own 360 powered J-20 for years, and by simply plugging the vacuum port for the vacuum advance(so I have none) I have had NO problems with pinging. I run 85 octane, and it runs beutifully.

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'83 J-20...Saved it from the crusher!

[This message has been edited by Tom 400 CFI (edited May 14, 2001).]

[Stuka]

Finally somebody who agrees with me http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

[jeepbob]

You do not have to remove the shield off your old intake just be sure to run the full valley gasket or the pcv will pick up oil.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[bigjim]

I have done this edel brock swap and didn't use the egr manifold or the valley pan, extremely rich in the fuel department and oil every where an orfice existed. so after a while i pulled out the ole valley pan and installed it and the cover that came supplied with the intake for the pcv valve and no more oil (except the valve covers) constant leaking and retightening on the gasket.

but now that i have read the posts i beleive that i do have a heat problem very hot under the hood and the paint is wearing out on hood right over the engine.

it runs rich and i like the edel brock 1406 carb, easy to tune, but it doesn't work on extreme angles at all.

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something wicked this way rolls

[RudyC]

Real simple. You need the EGR only for the smog check and since you don't get checked there don't worry about it. Since you are using and aftermarket carb it will probably be on the rich side from the factory and therefore be ok. The pinging comes from using a STOCK carb with stock jetting and no EGR. On Q jets you just raise the needles a little. On my holley I switched to a 2 stage PV. Otherwise I would have to go up 2 to 3 jet sizes. It ran ok that way but it idles better with the smaller jets and it keeps my plugs cleaner.
Since you have the Edelbrock carb just jet it with richer needles and stiffer springs.

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79 WAGONEER (SOLD IT, BUT WILL FIND A LESS RUSTY ONE LATER)
79 DODGE STEPSIDE, 318,HOLLEY STREET DOMINATOR INTAKE, 4BBL HOLLEY,TF727/275X16 GOODYEAR EAGLE GTS
pictures at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1500380&a=11321052

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka:
um.....all a EGR does is recycle gas fumes to get better gas milage. You loose horse power in the process. First thing you do when you supe up a chevy is buy a EGR bypass and block off.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the EGR only opens under high manifold vacuum, so under wide-open throttle, it cuts out entirely and does not affect full-throttle performance whatsoever. The beef most people have with it is over driveability problems.

And don't get me STARTED on what Chevy people do...

&lt;JK!!!&gt; http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[Matt W]

stuka, i agree w/ you on the whole egr thing, i hav'nt got one and i'm willing to bet i have probably, not for sure, but probably the highest compression ratio on the board...9.6:1, hence i run 91 octane (ouch) and run NO vac advance ( your 360 distributer should have 14 to 19 degrees of advance cintrifugally anyway) vac advance is useless, just ask a racer or any performance mechanic that builds high compression engines.
I haven't tried this, but if you do get pinging after this install, try using a lower temp thermostat and a 4 core radiator, mine was a 360 2 bbl w/ towing package so it has the 3 core. the front of my truck is so hot after driving in 70+ degree temperature for 30 minutes or more, you'll burn yourself by touching the grill. Anyway, what i ended up doing was running less initial timing and setting mixture a bit richer. Yes...YOUR MILEAGE WILL GO DOWN! but your engine WILL make more power, i'd also get some quality headers too http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif...along w/ dual exhaust or atleast freer breathing single exhaust.

[Stuka]

Actually, I am pretty sure Snakeyes runs 10:1 compression with flat top pistons. As for the EGR thing, sure I will need to do a bit of fine tuning afterwards. I was already expecting to do this. On my first day to work I will prolly have to pull over a few times just to make ajustments ( I drive 20 miles to work, going up from 3000ft elevation to 5000ft elevation). I will let ya guys know how it goes after this weekend. lets hope all goes well =)

BTW: I have actually always been more of a Ford guy, but work on just about everything.

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
1975 Cherokee
360 4v, T18a
Spicer 20 T-Case
Dana44 w/3.58 Gears
[/list]

[This message has been edited by Stuka (edited May 15, 2001).]

[Va-Rob]

Definatly use the heat shield. Have the manifold with you at the parts store so you can get the right PCV gromet and valve. Make the throtle linkage adapter and make sure it bolts flush to the manifold before you install. Most definatly usr RTV sealent to seal the front and rear gasket areas and toss the rubber things that come with the valley pan gasket. finally let it sit over night so all the sealent can cure before starting.

Good Luck
Rob