d44 + M20 vs 37s?

[Jeep4myBoys]

so, those of you with stock axles and 37s, how do the axles hold up? I'm trying to decide on a lift and tire size for my cherokee - and I'm trying to keep costs reasonable. I'm new to real off-roading, but I'm pretty easy on the skinny pedal. Mostly hard trails with some decend rock crawling, places like Ouray, around Farmington, Moab and Las Cruces are the places I'll be.

What do y'all think? 37s, or should I stick with 35s if I intend to keep the stock axles?

[Jeep4myBoys]

BTW - I plan on upgrading gears, and don't mind replacing Ujoints and whatnot, but I'd rather not mess with swapping axles.

[BRUTUS]

If you are as light on the pedal as you say you are you could probably do 37's. Try to choose a light tire/rim combo if at all possible. Less rolling inertia is your friend and will discount the strain on the axles at least for the time being.

Next thing you have to decide is what gearing you want to go with in the axles. Do you want economy or crawlability or a middle ground type gearset?

[Jeep4myBoys]

If you are as light on the pedal as you say you are you could probably do 37's. Try to choose a light tire/rim combo if at all possible. Less rolling inertia is your friend and will discount the strain on the axles at least for the time being.

Next thing you have to decide is what gearing you want to go with in the axles. Do you want economy or crawlability or a middle ground type gearset?

Good info Brutus - the cherokee will be almost trail only, so I'm thinking 4.88s (the lowest I've found for the M20)

[Cecil14]

Other thing to remember with lower gear sets in smaller axles means smaller pinions. Granted the M20 has a decent sized pinion but it still gets small with tall gears.


aa

[jepj2000]

I agree with Brutus on the light weight tire/wheel combo. Try to stay with a 12.50 width and an 8" wide wheel, that will help on the weight.

I know guys that have made even larger tires survive on D44s, but they know there rigs and no when to apply throttle and when not to, so if you have that kind of control of you rig then you will really shouldn't have a problem with them.

Just don't get mad if/when you do break some parts though.

Rankin

[Cecil14]

Riverbeast ran 38's or 39's on his D44s for a long time. Finally ended up bending the tubes on both axles, though.


aa

[shepherdskeep]

Are you/ have you done SOA? This is what a 35x12.50 looks like on stock 15x8 wagons with the widetrack flares cut off (looks kinda puney):

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/shepherdskeep/Chief/HPIM1035.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/shepherdskeep/Chief/HPIM1034.jpg


I'm planning on 36x13.50 Iroks as soon as my Baja Claws wear out. Since I "lincoln-locked" the rear axle Saturday, that may not take too long :D

[AdamG]

I currently have 37.13.50 r15 BAJA CLAW RADIALS ON 15X8 stock steel wagon wheels. already bought a ful set of spare shafts, just waiting to brake stuff, oh and i AM NOT EASY ON THE SKINNY PEDAL...
Adam G

[Stuka]

As mentioned above, carry spare shafts. I am going to carry spare rear shafts in my J10, and I am only running 34" TSL's.

[scotty]

i ran 38s on my m20 and front 44 for about 3 years without any prollems by running an auto tranny and having a super conservative driving style.

eventually i got tired of always having to take the easy way up,and started driving alittle more "assertively" ;) about that same time i swapped in a t18 and spicer 18 and started breaking the rear axle-axleshafts,spider gears,and i pinched up the tubes to where the pinion was pointing upwards and causing u joint failures. :eek:

in went a shaved FF 14 bolt and i havent worried about it since. i still run a 1/2 ton front(10 bolt) and it only breaks sometimes. im hard on my rig and it holds up well for what it is.i can beat on it as hard as i want,and if a break the front i can always count on the rear to get me back to camp if i unlock the hubs and shift the t case into rwd.

alot of guys here have spent some big $$ on their 44s in gears and lockers,only to find out that they werent going to hold up.im not going to preach the "build it right the first time" thing,because i dotn think everybody needs 48s and rockwells,or even 40s and 1 tons. there is certainly no harm in running what ya got,but my advice is to keep it simple and do NOT spend a bunch of $$ on the stock 44 and m20 until you have a good idea how theyll hold up on your trails with your 'wheelin style. with an auto tranny and a new process low range(208 and 229 have a 2.61) youll get around fine. i drove my rig to the trails and wheeled it with 38s, 3.31s and the auto tranny.

no harm in slapping in some cheap used gearsets,or maybe a cheap locker up front,but for the most part spend any $$ on preventative maintence,tires and weld up the rear.

prolly 75% of the trail breakage i see is due to lack of routine maintenace.change 20 year old seals,grease,and oil,check all the bearings,ball joints, and steering components. this will go a long way to getting you to and from the trails safely.

my 2 cents... :drivin:

[etjeep]

timothy,
As folks have indicated its doable but its probly pushing the envelope a bit.

Just do yourself a favor a figure what it will cost to "refurbish" your old axles (re-gear, lockers, bearings, shaft......aka everything but the tubes and housing) vs. changing axles.

[Jeep4myBoys]

All good advice, thanks guys. I'm really torn on the direction I want to go. I'm thinking either SOA and 37-39.5s, or just a 4" lift and some trimming to fit 35s.

My GW has 4" and 33s, so that's fine for the easier trails (I'm locking the rear as soon as the lock right shows up :D ). So I'm thinking I may as well go big with the wide track. It's got 2.73s, so a gear change is definately in order regardless. Maybe I'll just keep an eye out for a 1980+ J20 to steal the axles out of and do the swap when I do an SOA.

I'm still not a hard core crawler, so I'm not really sure if I want to go that big yet . . . but by the time I can afford an SOA and donor J20 maybe I will be :rolleyes:

[adamsclarke]

I looked at it this way. I already had J20 axles and if i wanted to regear and rebuild them, i'd easily spend what a junkyard chevy 60 and 14 bolt cost. And if your lucky you can find them with 4:56 and lockers occaionally for cheap....
I agree that if you are light on the pedal...then they'll hold up for awhile...but eventually you'll want to go bigger.....so I say spend the money right the first time and go 60s.
Keep looking...there are deals out there...I got my matching set for $700....so figure a few bucks for new ujoints and some elbow grease and seals...and i am well below what building a 44 would cost.

[jepj2000]

I agree with adamsclark on that. I'm doing the same thing, I was torn between building my D44s that are under the J10 now or spending the money once and buying the alredy bombproof Dana 60 axle. The best part about doing a Dana 60 swap is that any improvement to the axle will be worth the money, where as trying to build a Dana 44 is only trying to make it survive and they will still break.

If you are thinking there is a chance you would ever go bigger than a 37" tire then wait till you can afford to do it right the first time. It will be so much cheaper than trying to make you Dana 44s work.

Rankin

[Slick Willie]

Wheel the jeep when your rear locker gets installed. You'll be surprised what that will do for your capabilities. If you run a locked rear, open front, 35's at the right air pressure, you can go a lot of places you can't with open diffs and 33's.

[Stuka]

Wheel the jeep when your rear locker gets installed. You'll be surprised what that will do for your capabilities. If you run a locked rear, open front, 35's at the right air pressure, you can go a lot of places you can't with open diffs and 33's.

Or 37's and open difs for that matter. A locker can really make up for tire sizes.

[Jeep4myBoys]

Wheel the jeep when your rear locker gets installed. You'll be surprised what that will do for your capabilities. If you run a locked rear, open front, 35's at the right air pressure, you can go a lot of places you can't with open diffs and 33's.

Different jeeps. The rear locker is going on my 88 grand wag - which I want to keep looking as sharp as it is, so it's a street jeep that will take me and the boys camping and fishing.

The 82 cherokee is currently stock height on 31s, that's the one I'm planning on building up, and haven't yet decided whether to go 4" and 35s or SOA and 37s. Of course - if I get into changing axles I may as well go to 40s . . .

So it would be pretty costly to put the lift and 35s on to decide whether it will work or not. I'm trying to develop a plan first so I only have to do it once! The Cherokee will get front and rear lockers regardless of tire size.

[Slick Willie]

Well, if you're getting lockers for front and rear 1/2 ton axles, I'd be worried about 37's. My buddy runs 38" ground hawgs with open D44's on his Cherokee. He has babied the throttle, but the tires are bald as crap, and without grip, it's lasted a good 2 years (about 8 trips).

Some people say lockers will break shafts easier. Some say lockers help shafts last. I can see the argument both ways, but the bottom line is with any given combination of traction and a little too much gas, you'll be sitting on a trail putting in your spare shaft or pinion.

Also, the lower the gears, the more torque set on the axle guts. The higher the gears, the more stress on the driveshafts. If it were me, and I had to keep the little axles, I'd put a rear locker in and run 35's max. But if it were me, and I am, I went ahead and swapped in one tons, got bigger tires, and called it a day. But I hate trail repairs, I hate not being able to get started on a rock that's too big for my tires, and I really hate breaking parts. Especially if it meant getting off the trail or not. I've left my Wag stranded overnight before, and even the next day, I was worried about getting if off the trail. But that wasn't axle related.