Dana 70 Rear ?

[Rick@battlement]

Would a dana 70 rear be a good option for a 1982 Wagoneer axle swap? Is it equal to a Dana 60? Also what would a fair price be? I am not sure what it came out of, but the seller says it is a 70.

[Stuka]

D70's are huge. Stronger then a D60. You will need at least 37's to be able to get good clearance unless you shave the dif. Dodges used D70 rears in SWR 1 tons. Not sure what else used them besides the M715 (M715 = older weaker one)

[Glenn_tx]

I've got one sitting out in my driveway. It absolutely dwarfs a Dana 60. The axle tubes are 4" thick and seems to weigh about twice as much as a 60.

Sorry, that's all I know about it. I'm trading it for a Chevy 14 bolt.

[oldyellowwagoneer]

I got one in mine and wouldn't trade it for anything. Dennis

[AM Woody]

I've had a couple in 3/4 ton Dodge diesels. A friend has had four or five of those trucks, run up a lot of miles with no maintenance and blown one of them. The shops will tell you the D70 is on borrowed time after 150K unless you reset the carrier backlash - and they can be hard on bearings by this mileage, too. If you let them go longer, they'll spit the shims out and eventually spin the carrier, and usually toast the ring and pinion. Then it gets expensive. I've reasearched this a little bit and I'm starting to believe they need preventative maintenance to live a long life. Your results may vary (actually, you are talking about a lot less torque than a Cummins, so who knows?)

Andy

[Stuka]

Yeah, but who puts 150k miles on a trail rig?

[Elliott]

It's going to be a heavy bugger. The bottom of the diff is smooth for "gliding" over obstacles. Jeep used the D70 in the one ton and one ton dually trucks, as well as the FC170, and the M715.
They came in various widths, Cab and Chassis was typically 63" wheel mount surface to wheel mount surface.

[country boy]

They are HUGE and and as Chi Town said they are high dollar to rebuild. I put over $700.00 in mine all parts no labor. That was just bearings , races and r+p gear. I would look for a D60 or a 14 bolt for a trail rig. Thats my $.02

[AM Woody]

Yeah, but who puts 150k miles on a trail rig?

I guess I was assuming this was a used axle, and it might already have 150K on it.

[scotty]

only reason to use a 70 over a 14 bolt is you get it dirt cheep or free ;) or if you need gears lower than 5.13(lowest available for 14 bolt)

if you can get it cheap and fills your needs,go for it.i like 14 bolts csuse of the "beef per dollar spent" aspect. i only gave $50 for the one im running,and $50 for a whole parts truck that the one designated for my burb came in.70s are scarcer,and not usually that cheap when you find one

nothing wrong with doing alittle preventative maintenance now and then ;)

specially on a trail rig.almost nothing you subject to constant high torque abuse and mud/dirt/water is a bolt in and forget deal. mine gets every fluid changed at least every other trip,diffs inspected,and u joints greased every trip.

now that i think about it,i take better care of my trail rig than my tow rig or daily driver :eek: tongue.gif

the 14 bolt is nice cause the wear described above on high mileage axles can be easily adjusted for without buying parts. on a 150k 14 bolt all you have to do is turn the adjusting rings beside the diff to reset the backlash/preload :cool:

[ November 21, 2003, 06:08 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[netbear]

They make a Dana 80 also.

;^)

[jode]

I think it has kinda been beaten already, but since the deadhorse just moved a bit, here goes:

For wheelin, the strength of the housing isn't (usually) the main factor (unless you are airing out at Top Truck Competitions or running a Dana35 or something). Usually the main factor is the diameter of the axle shaft. So going from a D60 to a D70 doesn't get you anything unless that 70 is running a bigger/stronger shaft (which it prolly isn't) and you still have to deal with the negatives as previosuly mentioned (less clearance, heavier, maintenance, etc.) So unless you need a HUGE carrying capacity in your rig, the 70 is better left alone IMHO

One interesting theory that you hear of from time to time though is to increase the weight of the axles (and other low parts) so that the overall COG of the vehicle is reduced.
However, IMHO, a better school of thought than that is to go flyweight...if you can ;)

[TexasJ10]

I thought a dana 70 and the 14 bolt both had 35 spine 1.5" axles and 10.5" ring gears and weighed the same. There are few 60's that have 1.5" axles.

[tgreese]

Do you really want all that unsprung weight? I'd think you'd be better off with a full-floater D44 with custom axles - they can be made with higher grade material so they won't break. Make the total vehicle lighter and you don't need as much power. Less power means less stress, and less breakage.

[scotty]

most rear d60s have a 30 spline,1.31" shaft,like a 44 :eek: so comparing comaring a 60 to a 70 is comparing apples to oranges,IMO

a 70 is in the same league as a 14 bolt. some older dodge and m715 rear 70s have 23 splines,but most had 35,and all are 1.5". 14 bolt shafts are also 1.5",but only 30 spline.since the shaft diameter is the same,there is not really a loss in strength. very few people break either 14 bolt or 23 spline d70 shafts

as was mentioned,both the 70 and the 14 bolt have a 10.5" ring gear. there are many versions of rear 70,so they are harder to shop for. the heavy duty "B" casting rear axles have a 2 piece carrier,and 4 spider gears like the 14 bolt. very comparable and very worth using for the right price

the housing doesnt get nearly as much attention as it deserves,IMO. my frined and i have bent front and rear 44 housings,as has riverbeast. i think alot of the little prollems people have with wearing out ball joints,seals,bearings,even snapping axlesahfts and u joints are the result of a housing thats been tweaked over the years.i think its very important to start with a straihg housing and truss it so it stays that way.

i put a truss on my 14 bolt,tho its prolly ulikely id bend it,i can hardly pick up the empty housing by myself ;) but if you plan to abuse a rig with big tires,a truss is a must. they are easy to make with a few bucks worth of scrap metal

i agree with keeping sprung weight to a minimum,but its my opinion that a person should not worry about adding unsprung weight in the form of bigger axles.

putting the 14 bolt in the rear of my rig actually made a difference in how it wheels,presumably due to the added unsprung weight.i can now go places in 2wd that i needed 4wd to go before :D i worried about adding all that weight up until the 1st time i wheeled it ;) now i consider it one of the best mods ive made. you can beat on and bounce your junk around all day long with 38+ sized tires if you upgrade to trussed d70 or 14 bolt. you gotta take it real easy if you want to run 35+ tires on a 1/2 ton,skinny tube 44. a rear 60 is better since its full floating,and has a beefier diff,but its still not up to par with a 70 or 14 bolt unless you bore out the spindles and spend some $$ on some BLING custom 1.5" shafts

my $.02 on 60/70/14 bolts anyway smile.gif

[ November 21, 2003, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[RBJ]

I have a D70 that I will be using in the rear, FWIW from my reading the D70 only hangs about 5/16" lower then a 60 and you get 1.5" 35 spline shafts. They do have better clearence then a 14 bolt IIRC. Mine was form a Dodge with 4.56 gears and posi. The thing is huge though with 4" tubes and does weigh about 400lbs-500lbs I bet. You can shave a good amount of weight pitching the drums and going with disks. They are not nearly as common as the 14 bolts so they are a bit harder to find. Good axle IMHO.

[porkchop]

There is a disscusion on the zone about the M715 axles strength, no one on there has broke a D70 and they have done some crazy trash. Only a few have broke a front D60 and they deserved to break more with what they were doing. I don't know where the myth of the weak M715 axles came into play. The only reason guys change the M715 axles out is because of the odd wheel pattern and parts avaiability.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by porkchop:
There is a disscusion on the zone about the M715 axles strength, no one on there has broke a D70 and they have done some crazy trash. Only a few have broke a front D60 and they deserved to break more with what they were doing. I don't know where the myth of the weak M715 axles came into play. The only reason guys change the M715 axles out is because of the odd wheel pattern and parts avaiability.Spline count, SUA, closed knuckle and drum brakes, especially turning radius are reasons for some to swap the M715 axles out. But then, I've never heard of anyone breaking anything on either of the M715 axles so I don't buy into the "weak" myth either PC.
You can swap on disc brakes for the front, go SOA and get some nice wheels from Stockton, so turning radius would be my only issue.

[blt2krl]

Give them to me I will brake them smile.gif

[scotty]

yeah,me to. smile.gif

maybe not the rear,but i betcha i could brake the front ;)

definately add a truss to an m715 60. they got skinny tubes. at least the couple that ive looked at in real life

[over2land]

Elliot...Why would you wanna go SOA on a truck that clears 38"s stock?

I agree on the turning radius issue though.

[blt2krl]

Originally posted by over2land:
Elliot...Why would you wanna go SOA on a truck that clears 38"s stock?

I agree on the turning radius issue though.Articulation comes to mind..

[Stuka]

elliot: what does it being spring under axle have to do with strength? A SUA setup is superior to a SOA in the fact that you will get WAY less axle wrap (I have visually seen a SOA setup get major axle wrap up front on a few occasions) Which I would consider to be a plus for strength. It does have less groud clearancce, but not less strength.