Hey Scotty!

[tc]

Scotty (mem#224), I was looking through the arcives for a driveshaft brake and noticed you saying that you and your friend installed a vw turning brake on his xj chero. If you don't mind, what is a vw turning brake and where could I get one? I ask because I would like to do rear disk brakes but don't want caddy calipers $$$. So I'm looking for a different means for an e-brake. Thanks for any help you can give. smile.gif

[scotty]

my xj friend and i both have VW steering brakes hooked to our rear brakes. i like to call it "manual traction control" smile.gif it is simply a 2 master cyls that are operated either by dual levers or a single lever to apply the brakes individually.

we are using the dual levers,with a single lever you cannot apply both brakes at once,only one or the other. they can be obtained at any buggy type off road store,pick up a "VW trends" if there is not such a shop in your area.

it is installed inline to the rear brakes: from factory proportioning valve to turnig brake,line from brake to each rear wheel. i use a 77 gmc front brake line to go from the framerail to the front chevy/gmc 1/2 ton caliper.

people who ride with me are amazed with how they work- i can be in a situation with a rear tire spinning,apply the brake,and contiue forward progress. people who are watching from the outside are sometimes very confused when a tire suddnely stops spinning tongue.gif

i can also use them to hold myself still in the middle of a hill while i use right foot on the throttle,left foot on gas. pretty cool. my xj friend made a lever that keeps his handles in the upright postion,making a very effective parking brake. i will eventually add one as well. in the mean time,i have a hydraulic "park lok" installed on the front wheels. it is also a buggy item. it goes between the master cyl and proportioning valve on the front brake line. i apply the brakes,push the button,and the frot brakes are locked till i apply the brake pedal again.

the park lok will run you round $40,the steering brake $100 and up. both work very well,ad the only downside is that brakelines must be run inside the cab to use either iside the cab. the park lok coule easily be installed in the floorboard,so that the knob sticks thru,but the brakelines and unit itself are mounted underneath. whenever i get around to istallig the disc brake 14 bolt into my burb tow rig,i plan on mouting it this way,so i can tap it with my foot to engage it.

if all you need is a parkiug brake,id go with the park lok. ive heard of people using an electric line lock from a speed shop as well. i used the park lok cause i wanted something that was completely mechanical,and didnt need any battery power to function.

hope this helps,anyway. smile.gif let me know if ya have any further ques about it...

[johnwom]

Hey Scotty,

This is a really interesting post and I saved a copy if it as an MSWord document for future reference.

One question - In the 3rd paragraph there is a typo that I can't figure out, "from factory proportioning valve to turnig brake."

What did you mean by a 'turnig'?

Thanks,

John

[scotty]

sorry,i use the terms "turning brake" and "steering brake" brake interchangably redface.gif some other people may call them "cutting brakes"

any way,i simply meant that the line comes from the factory proportioning valve,into the steering brake. there is a single in and dual out on the unit,so a line goes from it to each rear wheel.

while the steer brake is after the proportioning valve,the park lok on the front wheels is before(between the master cyl and proportioning valve)

hope this clears up the confusion smile.gif

[tc]

Thanks for the info scotty, just one or two more questions. What parts do I need to perchase and can I get them at autozone or napa? Oh one more, so you say you use two master cyls, are they small or are the as big as a fsj's? Are they tied in with the front brakes or are they seprate. I just ask because I've busted my brake lines twice out wheeling so I'm just looking for a second way to brake, just in case.

[scotty]

the steering brake is basically 2 small master cyls with levers to work them.

that is another good thing about using them. if my engine stalls,i can very effectively brake down a hill with the steering brake by pulling on both levers. the unit is manual,and not dependent on the engine being running. it works the same if its running or not. my Qjet doesnt stall that often(wheres some wood ;) ) nut when it does,the steer brake will let me creep gently back down the hill,or old myself in place while i get it restarted.

you will need to purchase the unit itself,some brake line adapters(since they are designed for german braking systems the fittings are metric) and enuff brakeline to run to where you want to mount it.

i believe i got my adapters at the 'Zone(seems like they were 10mm male threads to a 5/16 brakeline,but dont quote me on that,its been awhile since i bought em ;) )

its a pretty simple install. hardest part is getting the system completely bled. :eek:

[tc]

Thanks Scotty I apreciate all your help.

[tc]

Sorry, one more question, Could I run both rear calipers with one master cylinder I ask because I'm going to be locked in the rear so stoping one wheel won't help me. thanks

[tc]

oh, is there a special make and model of vw I need to ask for? thanks, sorry for all the questions.

[scotty]

no specific thing to ask for. the units are universal.

a steering brake is going to come with 2 cyls. you will have to run a line out to each rear wheel. i am not sure if you could maybe T the 2 out puts together? im thinking this may not be such agreat idea,cause if you only pulled one handle,the pressure would also push on the other sides cylinder,thru the T

they do make a "staging brake" that is a single lever,single cyl,single in,single out. youd hook it up the same way,only difference is that youd have a single line running back to the rear axle. that may be more what youre looking for,since you could pull the 1 lever and apply the brakes to both rear wheels. the staging brake is not any cheaper,tho. both it and the steer brake sell for around $100.

heres some info that may be of some help: the brand im using is CNC,i think it is one of the more popular brands with the buggy guys(maybe we have some buggy enthusiasts here that can verify)

but any way,here are some CNC partnumbers:
-dual handle,angled handles,3/4" bore cyls,red anodized balls onthe handles: CNC 452AR3/4

-staging brake,straight handle,blue anodied ball: CNC 412SB3/4

the first part number is the one im using. it also can be had with a smaller 5/8" bore cyls for drum brakes,tho i cant see drums being effective in our heavy FSJs. maybe on a lightweight rail buggy it might not be so bad, but i wouldnt bother with a steering brake with drums in an FSJ.

the dual cyl models can also be obtained with single levers in 5/8 and 3/4" bores, you have a single lever to activate the 2 cyls,push the lever forward to brake 1 wheel,pull it back to brake the other. again,the disadvantage to this setup is that you cannot brake both wheels at the sime time,only one or the other.

both the dual and single levers can be obtained with straight up and down levers,or angled forward levers,and with red or blue anodized balls. the angled forward levers were the most comfortable to use for my application,but i guess it may depend on exactly where youre going to mount them.

i can give ya some numners for other models,if ya like.

the "park lok" im using i think is made by imperial,and its number is BP 5579

the shop where i got mine is "larrys offroad" you can call 800 375 4546 to get a catalog,or go to www.larrysoffroad.com (http://www.larrysoffroad.com) and see if he has any pics of therm there...

further ques? smile.gif

[Desert Beast]

ive built sandrails and bajabugs and ill go with scotty and say that CNC is one of the best, Jamar also makes a turning brake.
Scotty one question though, ive had turning brakes in sandrails and baja bugs and i was wondering how well it held the FSJs (being as heavy as they are)?

[scotty]

so far its held up just fine. been in there over a year now,1st with the 44,now with the 14 bolt. only thing is i wouldnt bother with drum brakes. it will stop a 38" tire from spining,even if its completlely in the air, and transfer all power to the other side with discs smile.gif

once i put a d20 back in,i should also be able to put the xfer in FWD and spin the front tires while applying the brake,and be able to pivot on 1 rear wheel :D

[ November 04, 2002, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[FSJeeper]

Scotty, are you running lockers? Especially in the rear? If so, how can you put one brake on and pivot on one wheel, power will be going to both wheels and will be locked?

I have modified my NP205 to be able to put the front axle in drive and the rear axle in nuetral with no power to it. This is with an extra shifter.

I am going to run a separate brake cable to my rear discs with caddy park brake calipers and separate brake levers. If the caddy park brake calipers will hold, then I can lock out the rear axle and pivot on either rear wheel.

I have heard the caddy park brakes do not work very well so I will just have to wait and see, if not, then I will go with a setup like yours.

[tc]

Thanks Scotty for all your help. Treyl

[ November 04, 2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: tc ]

[scotty]

fsjeeper,i am open in the rear. although,if there is enuff traction for a locker to unlock,you can still pivot on one rear wheel by putting the xfer in FWD.

that mod to your 205,it sounds likda like a twin stick shifter ;) ive got one for my d20 as well. cant get FWD only with a spicer 18,but the 20 is like the 205 with a hi,neutral low for each axle. this is another reason im going back to the 20. i got real used to the twin stick d300,and ive been bummed out about not having a fwd only ever since i put in the spicer 18...

i have located a guy selling 465/205s for $100 apiece. ill be picking one up for whenever the time comes that the 20 is deamed inadequate ;)