Talk me into getting a 4bbl

[Baker]

I've found a good deal on a "stock" Motorcraft 4350 and matching manifold for my 360. Should I get it? Is it legal in Texas? How hard is it to swap an intake manifold? Is it worth the money/effort? Is it something I can do alone or with one helper in a weekend (this is my daily driver)?



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Baker
'84 Grand Wagoneer 360,727,229, 44 & 20 (3.31s), 30x9.5, stock springs

[Dutch]

Yes you should buy it...Don't know if it's Texas legal...It's very easy to swap an intake manifold (use new valley pan gasket, have a torque wrench handy and don't go nut's with the sealant it can clog water intakes)...It is worth the minimal effort needed...You can do it alone (careful removing the old manifold it is a little heavy but really more awkward than anything else)...It will continue being your daily driver...Do not pull the distributor (as some instructions tell you)...Remove cap and protect the guts.

Right to the point...chuckle
Dutch

[Veepster]

you make want to rebuild(or at least inspect) the inside of the carb before you install.....if it has been sittling a while it probably needs a rebuild or is gummed up..

------------------
Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Cherokee
360 2v, TH400 QT with low
4" skyjacker Rancho 9000's
33x12.50 BFG KO's 8" American Racing Baja Rims
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust, Dyno Max
Infiniti power leather seats
50%LuxuryCar,50%Tractor

[MonsterMash]

First things first. "WWHHHHAAAAA!!!" (secondaries opening up). I'm gonna' do the swap in the near future. I like to have the reserve throttle capacity for a number of reasons such as towing, passing (especially uphill). I'm still basically 17 years old when it come to my cars so I'd like to mess with the neighborhood Blazers as well. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif Gas mileage, Ha! We don't need no stinkin' gas mileage! But seriously, a properly tuned motor with a 4v carb isn't gonna seriously affect your mpgs. Unless.... "WWHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...."

I'm looking for an Autolite 4300 carb. If you decide against the upgrade would the guy sell just the carb?? I'm picking up a manifold this weekend.

------------------
" I'm not going to make policy based on guilt."
--Gov. George "Dubya" Bush

"The internal combustion engine is the single greatest threat to life on this planet."
--Vice Pres. Al Gore
(I guess he walks to work?)

'84GW360--"Spinner"
Sir Gary Boyd's Ford truck ignition upgrade
Electric fuel pump
9.50x30x15 Dirt-Diggers
No emmissions crap (musta' been the previous owner, officer)
Missing interior & exterior pieces
Chipped windshield
Otherwise stock
(soon to be 4v--I'll blame that on the previous owner as well)

[RudyC]

Once you try a foursome uyou will never go back.
Really its way easy. If it's legall in Calif its legal in Texas , heck it's stock watta they know.
Then add gas, stomp foot and laugh and laugh again.

I had a Modified Q jet on mine for a while. It even got better milage when i didn't stomp it with both feet on the gas one hand on the roof......
Uh, drooling again, gotta go...

------------------
AKA RUDY79.
1979 WAGONEER, 360, TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[This message has been edited by RudyC (edited October 26, 2000).]

[Baker]

Sounds like fun. I'll probably do the install over Thanksgiving break (out Wed-Fri, I don't have any classes Tues anyway...5 DAY WEEKEND! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)

------------------
Baker
'84 Grand Wagoneer 360,727,229, 44 & 20 (3.31s), 30x9.5 tires

[MonsterMash]

Hey Baker, have you checked out the throttle linkage? Please post any interesting linkage problems you encounter. I don't have my carb yet but I figure I can modify whatever I need but I'd rather have a nice "factory" fit.

------------------
" I'm not going to make policy based on guilt."
--Gov. George "Dubya" Bush

"The internal combustion engine is the single greatest threat to life on this planet."
--Vice Pres. Al Gore
(I guess he walks to work?)

'84GW360--"Spinner"
Sir Gary Boyd's Ford truck ignition upgrade
Electric fuel pump
9.50x30x15 Dirt-Diggers
No emmissions crap (musta' been the previous owner, officer)
Missing interior & exterior pieces
Chipped windshield
Otherwise stock
(soon to be 4v--I'll blame that on the previous owner as well)

[Ralph]

If you look at the carb linkage, it'll be an easy fit if the linkage is the same as on your 2-bbl.

As for legal, it may not be checked in Texas but technically it's not emissions-compliant to install a 4-bbl on a vehicle for which there was no 4-bbl carb as an option.

You could feasibly get better gas mileage, since the 4-bbl carb will be more efficient at allowing air in (takes less work), and it may create the mixture more efficiently. These are great theories, the kind you use when rationalizing the swap. But as the previous posts bear out, the fun-quotient pretty much rules out improved gas mileage.

[Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MonsterMash:
Hey Baker, have you checked out the throttle linkage? Please post any interesting linkage problems you encounter. I don't have my carb yet but I figure I can modify whatever I need but I'd rather have a nice "factory" fit.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't have mine yet either...but I'm pretty sure the linkage will hook up. It IS factory, after all (just not at that time...).

[bignblue]

Baker, GET THE D*MN THING! Then have fun smoking all the little Jeeps off the line. Just understand that your off-camber off road performance is going to suffer. Having said that, nothing beats the sound of those secondaries opening up...sounds like a vacuum cleaner just sucking all that air in....

[Baker]

Problem...it's from a '77 with TH400, and I have the TF 727. What do I do about the linkage?

[RudyC]

Cable or that long rod?
That was my sticky point with my Dodge too.
I'm not familiar with the AMC 727 linkage just on Dodges.
is there a rod from the tarnny to a swivel thing on the back of the intake then its attached to the carb linkage or is the rod connected to the tranny and carb directly?
Check the carb to see if it has the attachment for it.

------------------
AKA RUDY79.
1979 WAGONEER, 360, TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[Ralph]

BignBlue, the off-camber performance doesn't have to suffer if you do the right modifications to the carb (and because of this type of problem, I'm assuming you're talking about an Edelbrock 1400-series or Carter AFB). The basic requirements are a good strong fuel pump (at least 5.5-6 psi) and a clean, effective fuel filter, and proper float level.

Also, buy the $8 Edelbrock spring-loaded needle & seat assembly. These keep the floats from bobbing and thus allowing fuel to slosh around the float bowls. This is an easy fix and takes about 15 minutes.

[MonsterMash]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baker:
Problem...it's from a '77 with TH400, and I have the TF 727. What do I do about the linkage?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All the 4v carbs were factory prior to the TF727 being used. Do you have a 4300 or a 4350? Can you use some parts from your 2150? What doesn't match up? I figured the c/c would need some mods but I thought the throttle linkage/springs and such would work. How about the throttle solenoid? Maybe I'll check into a Quadra-Flush if the Motorcraft isn't a direct connect. Keep us posted.



------------------
" I'm not going to make policy based on guilt."
--Gov. George "Dubya" Bush

"The internal combustion engine is the single greatest threat to life on this planet."
--Vice Pres. Al Gore
(I guess he walks to work?)

'84GW360--"Spinner"
Sir Gary Boyd's Ford truck ignition upgrade
Electric fuel pump
9.50x30x15 Dirt-Diggers
No emmissions crap (musta' been the previous owner, officer)
Missing interior & exterior pieces
Chipped windshield
Otherwise stock
(soon to be 4v--I'll blame that on the previous owner as well)

[RudyC]

I think the 4350 was still used on TF727s. I may have a core lying around my moms garage protected by black widows. Maybe i'll look and see this weekend.

[MonsterMash]

According to my Chitlin's the 4v was used on 360s from '73-79 and on 401s from '74-78 (no 2v available). Model year 1980 was the first year with the TF727 (TH400 from '64-79). My manual only goes up to 1986 but I don't believe a 4v was used after that.

[MonsterMash]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baker:
Problem...it's from a '77 with TH400, and I have the TF 727. What do I do about the linkage?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is the problem with the linkage? Is it a real BIG difference?


------------------
" I'm not going to make policy based on guilt."
--Gov. George "Dubya" Bush

"The internal combustion engine is the single greatest threat to life on this planet."
--Vice Pres. Al Gore
(I guess he walks to work?)

'84GW360--"Spinner"
'84 Ford truck ignition
Electric fuel pump
9.50x30x15 Dirt-Diggers
No emmissions crap
Otherwise stock
(soon to be 4v)

[Baker]

The 727 has some kind of off-the-wall kickdown/passing gear linkage that's not on the TH400. Lokar makes a kit to eliminate it, but it's $70, and I'm too cheap/broke for that.

Could I swap the throttle thingy* from my 2150 onto the 4350?


*--the doohickey connected to the throttle shaft that all the linkages attach to, and pull on in order to open the throttle.

[MonsterMash]

Is there an attachment point for the kick-down somewhere on your linkage? I looked at one today on a '75 and I coulda' sworn the linkage was identical to mine except for the c/c connection. I would bet if you have to you can modify something off your 2150. Are you sure that the linkage hasn't been previously modified?

------------------
" I'm not going to make policy based on guilt."
--Gov. George "Dubya" Bush

"The internal combustion engine is the single greatest threat to life on this planet."
--Vice Pres. Al Gore
(I guess he walks to work?)

'84GW360--"Spinner"
'84 Ford truck ignition
Electric fuel pump
9.50x30x15 Dirt-Diggers
No emmissions crap
Otherwise stock
(soon to be 4v)

[scotty]

the linkage yall are refering to is not simply a kickdown,it is a"trhottle pressure linkage" in torqeflight speak.this linkage is very importnt and must be retained and adjusted properly,as it controls the trannys shift points.if you leave it unhooked,it will not shift correctly.wether you use an aftermarket cable conversion,or factory mechanical linkage,it must remain attached.my 360 in my j truck orginally had a 18a,so this linkage was not there.when i swapped in the 727 i had to find the linkage and install it.was somewhat a PITA.if i remember correctly,it bolts to the tranny and cyl head,no bolting onto the manifold.the throttle arm is prolly in about the same place,so the linkage may work as is.you may need to add something on the throttle lever on the carb to attach the rod(mine is temporarily attached with 'gulp' a couple of zip ties-ill fix it right soon,i swear) and in a worst case,you may need to make the rod just alittle longer.im pretty sure you can make it work pretty simply with the 4bbl. let us know how it goes.

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana 20 swap very soon
searching for dana 18 to replace the 20...

[Baker]

Another question: I have some flourescent lime-green (like this guy http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif, but more intense) spray paint. Would it be considered sane to paint my air cleaner box (and possibly valve covers) with it when I get the 4v? http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Anybody that has a 70's (preferably '77) 4350 carb, could you please post/email me a closeup pic of the throttle linkage on it? I want to compare it to my 2150 and clear up the confusion...I'm not buying the carb & manifold until I'm sure it'll fit.

[RudyC]

Why not i painted mine Caltrans center divider yellow from the upsidedown spray can they left on the freeway:)....

------------------
AKA RUDY79.
1979 WAGONEER, 360, TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[scotty]

my axlehousings,transmission,and xfer are purple,and my leaf springs and diff covers are red. the air cleaner in my clebrity is pink http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif id say go for it with the flo green!



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana 20 swap very soon
searching for dana 18 to replace the 20...

[Michael]

Vroooooooooooooom
Vroooooooooooooom

yes it is legal in texas. Just make sure you keep all your emissions stuff.
Want to say more power.....Do it. Rebuild the carb first.