opinions needed

[crownedclown]

hello, my name is wayne , and im from washington state. i own a 76 cherokee chief w/t. it currently runs the original 360. im looking for advice/opinions on a number of topics relating to improving/modifying said jeep.

1. 401 or 360- which should i build? i have two 360 (76/84) i have 1 401 (77) i assume the 401, but would appreciate comfirmation

2. i dont want anything to extreme. my intended uses/goals are as follows durability/reliability. power, yet drivable on and off road.

3. tire/wheel size? type? what the optimal size/type 4 all purpose use? i want agood look, but more importantly i want the perfect combo of street drivability, and off road capability

4. engine/tranny combo- i have both a 84 -727 and a 76-th400. modifications?

5. suspension- whats the best way to go? over/under axle? whats the "best" way to lift 4 clearence/capability? products? once again my goals being off road capabitilty and street drivability. the "perfect combo"lol

6. brake upgrades? i currently have a disc/drum combo. should/can i convert to all disc?

7. fuel injection or carb. ? do they even have fi 4 the 401? if so is price justified by perfor. relability, durability?

8. axle mods/upgrades?

9.rearend mods/ upgrades?

10. transfercase?

11. basically i need opinions/advice on any and all potential mod/upgrades to optimize my on/off road performance. once again i want the perfect combo of both . i realize they are many schools of thought on all the matters and would love to hear them all regardless of cost. (of course cost is an issue but i would like to weed through all "thoughts" to make the most imformed decisions possable

12. im sure there r many items i have left out (in my haste to post and receive answers) and would appreciate any /all contributions.



i have waited nearly my entire life 4 this opportunity to build my dream jeep. my friends and family all think im nuts. (they just dont understand)lol. i was put in aposition to basically have any vehicle i wanted(whithin reason) and i chose the one that ive dreamin about since i was a young boy. ty 4 your impu/time/patience.

wayne
washigton state
crownedclown68@msn.com

[TexTJ209]

Personally, for something driven on the street that isn't going to be too extreme...


401, of course. ;) TF727 and TH400 are both great trannys, but I like the 400 better...just personal preference, plus seeing as how yours is a 1976 it should already have the TH400. For something thats occasionally offroaded yet still street driven, 33" or 35" tires with a 4" suspension lift seems to work well, and doesn't require extensive modifications. You CAN do a rear disc conversion and hydroboost even, but they aren't a requirement...only really good upgrades.

I hate carburetors, so I'd say fuel injection. Some here will prefer the simplicity of a carburetor, but I prefer the low maintenance of a well setup Fuel Injection system. Howell and Edelbrock make FI systems for AMC motors, along with a few others. Edelbrock and Holley make some nice carburetors too, if you choose that route.

For 33s or 35s, the D44 axles that your cherokee already has will work fairly well unless you beat on it pretty hard. Regearing to 4.10 gears and maybe upgrading the axle shafts will make a big difference, but isn't required.

For the TCase, since yours is a 76 that is I'm assuming equipped with the TH400/QT you can try and find a D20 that should bolt up to the AMC version of the TH400. The Quadratrac All-Wheel Drive case is a good one, but lack of parts availability in addition to high maintenance makes me not suggest them. Flint will chime in otherwise. ;)

[RAMBLINFSJ]

Look on the side of the block it will be stamped 360 or 401. I would definitely build the 401. It has forged pistons and crank. Might be alittle more expensive to build but worth it in the HP department. Get a BJ'S Offroad or Rusty's Offroad 4'' Lift Kit, that should do it for clearance. The Rusty's Kit is cheaper and you'll get it faster. The engine and tranny combo depends on your transfer case and axles. Which side is the pumpkin on on the axles you a using? The brakes should be fine. By all means go fuel injection. Holley pro-jection is good and affordable and will fit the 401 with which ever intake you want to run. Sorry it's not as technical as I'd like it to be but that's my fault. Hope something I wrote can help.:thumbsup:

[TexTJ209]

Look on the side of the block it will be stamped 360 or 401. I would definitely build the 401. It has forged pistons and crank. Might be alittle more expensive to build but worth it in the HP department. Get a BJ'S Offroad or Rusty's Offroad 4'' Lift Kit, that should do it for clearance. The Rusty's Kit is cheaper and you'll get it faster. The engine and tranny combo depends on your transfer case and axles. Which side is the pumpkin on on the axles you a using? The brakes should be fine. By all means go fuel injection. Holley pro-jection is good and affordable and will fit the 401 with which ever intake you want to run. Sorry it's not as technical as I'd like it to be but that's my fault. Hope something I wrote can help.:thumbsup:

He brings up a good point, and something I forgot to mention. Later 80s model FSJs had their front axles offset to the opposite side of the rig than your 1976, so you can't use T-Cases from any of these era rigs without swapping your front axle.

[Serious Johnson]

Wayne:

First, welcome to our silly little club! Next, understand that a W/T Cherokee is pretty dang capable in stock form, and any modification serves just to tune it toward your specific needs. If I had that rig, and still lived in Seattle with limited funds, I'd tune it up and slap some 31" BFG ATs on it and call it good until the next financial windfall came.

360 vs 401, unless you intend to tow 7,000 lb over Snoqualmie Pass, is basically a matter of how fond you are of hearing the tires squall and how tolerant you are of fuel bills. A 360 can fairly easily & cheaply be made to equal the output of a 401, but of course the bigger motor can go even farther, if that's what you want. By the way, just check the block near the motor mounts to find the size. 360 has "360" cast there, 401 has "401" -- simple, eh?

Later 727 vs. earlier 400 would depend mainly on what front axle & transfer case you want to use, since that choice causes the front punkin to switch sides. One is about as strong & capable as the other, and parts are readily available for both. Going with the 400 means using a Quadratrac full-time case, which is pretty darn good, but has some peculiar maintenance issuse. Some part-time cases may fit behind a 400, but someone else will have to advise on that. The 727 can take either a 228/229 full-time case, or the excellent 208 part-time unit.

For 4" of lift (which is a lot for a W/T), you needn't go to a spring-over front axle. Just replacement springs (like BDS 4401s) should let you run wide 33s or narrow 35s easily, and little more than a dropped Pittman arm keeps handling close to stock.

Brakes are minimal on these rigs, and not a lot exists for cheap upgrades. 3/4-ton Chebby front calipers fit, and use slightly larger pads, but that's no panacea. The primary issue is small front rotor mass relative to the weight of the rig, and changing that gets tricky. Rear discs are almost completely useless because the old drums are more up to the task than the stock front discs.

Fuel injection (at least a setup that controls both fuel & spark) is always better than a carburetor, so that's just a matter of what you want to spend and how many of your brain cells are calcified at the carburetor age. If I lived near sea level with big mountains right out back, fuel injection would be a no-brainer. After ditching the silly slushbox for a manual trans, that's the best single upgrade I've made to my old Jeep, as it lets me run from Carolina to Colorado without having to swap carbs in Kansas. Plus, 18 MPG is a lot easier to swallow than 9.

Axles: your D-44s should be fine unless you start getting into extreme stuff and/or huge tires. They're about the most common axle on the planet, and parts/upgrades are cheap & plentiful.

Transfer case: If you drive a lot in rain or snow on pavement, I'd recommend the full-time Quadratrec or NP 229. They both work great in most conditions, and are just a little easier to break than a part-time case. If you have to have part-time for some reason, D-20 goes with the earlier front axle, NP-208 with the later (of course, custom variations are essentially unlimited). Both are very good, and the 208 is lighter & smoother in operation.

Hope this helps a little bit. Please keep us posted on the actual path you take, and we'll surely not be shy about offering opinions.

S.J.

[Geeeep]

What if any are the emissions rules in your area. That will help guide the engine buildup. If there are none, I'd go for the 401 :) TH400, QT. It came in the W/T cherokee and will be easy to put back in.

[CustomWag]

Hey Wayne,
Welcome from Oregon, and let me be the first to say.....

:worthless:

[goldhammer]

You can use the 727 and put a CJ D300 behind it if you keep the pass drop punkin. Might have to clock it down to clear the pan. The 400 you can get output shafts and adapters for almost any transfer you could want from AA or Novak. If you have the 400 in there now and go to the 727, you will need to swap out to a motor specific flex plate for the 727 and don't forget to pull the bushing from the end of the crank that the 400 uses. 360 and 401 flywheels and flex plates are not interchangable due to balancing differences.

Plenty of tech articles dealing with some of your Q's, and a good search function here to look through them.

Welcome to the nuthouse:D

[nw_upstart]

Good to see another FSJer come outta the woods in my area!

I've been tackling the hills around here with my stock drivetrain setup (360/T18/D20) and haven't had much trouble yet. I've got a little lift and some 33x12.50's. The biggest drawback I'm at right now is tires. I'm looking for that "perfect" street/offroad tire for around here.

If you ever want some help with your rig or want to hit the trails, just let me know. Meg is eager to have some other FSJ's to play with!

[Kali]

If you want a combination street/trail rider id suggest a BJs 2" lift and either 32x11.50 tires on 15" wheels, or you can go to a 16" rim and fit a 33" tire that is still 11.50 wide (i think its the 285/75/r16). I'd go with either 3.73 or 4.10 gears with an auburn limited slip in the rear. Definitely build the 401!

[waggy401]

I think you should send the Cherokee and the 401 down to me. :p :drivin:

Seriously, I've had a 401 in the past (the origin of my user name) and have a built 360 now. I'd go with the 401.

A spring lift would be the easiest way to go if you aren't going to do any crazy 'wheeling. The wide-tracks have an automatic advantage as they can run larger tires than narrow-tracks at the same amount of lift.

The stock brakes work decently if they are properly maintained and you don't run huge tires. There are some upgrades as mentioned above, with the Hydroboost being the most signficant.

I like my Howell fuel injection so far. Between that and the ignition upgrade, I have never had an AMC engine running this smoothly before. I do have an idle issue I am working on, but I think it is the result of something stupid that I did while building the engine. :banghead:

[Tigger4X]

Not much else to input but to reinforce the 401 and TH400 as well as the 4" lift to give you those 35"x12.5" tires nicely.