Stainless steel engine bolts observation

[pb]

Just thought I would pass along my experience with the stainless steel bolt kits off of ebay. About 2.5 years and 10K miles ago I put a rebuilt engine in my Jeep. I used the stainless steel bolts from those kits off of ebay. Looked sharp when it was all put together. Everything was torqued down according to specs and locktite was even used on some of the bolts (intake and some of the bolts on the TC). I even went back after 1k miles to double check some of the bolts (exhaust manifolds, some of the intake that I could easily check, etc). Everything other than the exhaust was good and tight. After that I would periodically check the exhaust, but that was all I would check.

Fast forward to this past weekend when I pulled the engine to check the camshaft bearings and cam & liftes due to excessive noise and no oil pressure on the top of the engine. I thought I had a bad lifter. I could run the engine with the valve covers off and it would just trickle out not spray everywhere.

There were literally 4 ss bolts that I had to exert some pressure on to remove on the engine!!! The rest took an easy turn to release with the socket wrench and I used my fingers for the rest of the way even with the locktite ones on the intake. Some even were removed without a socket wrench all together.:eek:

The intake was thus loose and I think that may have caused the coolant in the oil that apparently just recently started - I dropped the oil pan and changed the oil a few months ago to change the oil pickup and saw no coolant in the oil then and drove it about 40 miles since. I'm not positive on that so I am debating on whether to pull the heads and replace the head gaskets while the engine is out anyway just to be sure. So now I'm tearing the engine apart to see if there was any other damage from this :( First time with coolant in the oil so any suggestions on what should be checked or doesn't need to be would be appreciated.

Anyway if you are using stainless steel bolts, my recommendation is to check them frequently.

[Gambler68]

did you use the set from boltlocker? guy from florida?

[pb]

Yes it was the set from Boltlocker. I'm pretty sure I still have the business card that was sent with them that I can double check for you. They all came in little ziplock bags marked for each part/accessory.

[Careful34]

I read somewhere using SS anything will cause the metal it's in contact with to corroud (sp? rust) quicker, so I've been limiting my use of it since then.

[backpack09]

I read somewhere using SS anything will cause the metal it's in contact with to corroud (sp? rust) quicker, so I've been limiting my use of it since then.

SS into Aluminum will very often end up seizing up.

[AMX factor]

Use lots of anti seize. That will help with corrosion.

[Gambler68]

Yes it was the set from Boltlocker. I'm pretty sure I still have the business card that was sent with them that I can double check for you. They all came in little ziplock bags marked for each part/accessory.

yawp, that's his stuff.

hmm..concerns me since I bought a set for my 401 build which hasnt been done yet.

Aren't torque settings messed up when you add Anti-seize to the bolt? I think Billivistas writeup on fasteners over on Pirate talks about that..

[shimniok]

My understanding is that SS is softer at lower temperatures than regular steel. Why not just use ARP bolts (altho I guess they are super $$$$$)

Michael

[BRUTUS]

Aren't torque settings messed up when you add Anti-seize to the bolt? I think Billivistas writeup on fasteners over on Pirate talks about that..

YES they are different torque specs. Anti seize is equivalent to adding a lubricant to the threads. Torque settings will increase from dry to lubricated threads.

[Gambler68]

YES they are different torque specs. Anti seize is equivalent to adding a lubricant to the threads. Torque settings will increase from dry to lubricated threads.


sees, ahs knows stuff! *bows*

What I don't know is how much more you add to the torque setting when using anti-seize.

[Ristow]

some say SS doesnt stretch like other steels,so the torque isn't retained.so if a gasket collapses a bit,the bolt is now loose.

[Gambler68]

I'll probably just use mine then for accessory stuff, and get some decent intake bolts. At least they're handy for matching new ones up too.

[Tigger4X]

Talk about timing, I was about to order said SS bolt kit while my engine is out. Guess I won't being doing that and saving myself a lot of :banghead:


.

[Elliott]

sees, ahs knows stuff! *bows*

What I don't know is how much more you add to the torque setting when using anti-seize.

IIRC the aviation specs are ~15%, but I would say don't lube the threads. Screw the stainless, it's slicker then the grade 5 your should be using anyway.;) It's worthless bling and I don't believe it's even as strong as grade 5.

[yeep74]

IIRC the aviation specs are ~15%, but I would say don't lube the threads. Screw the stainless, it's slicker then the grade 5 your should be using anyway.;) It's worthless bling and I don't believe it's even as strong as grade 5.

Stainlees stretches and twists much easier under the same load as regular steel. IMHO Stainless is for holding floodlamps on a boat. Most stainless is not even grade 2, although they do produce graded stainless. You would know it them bolts are $$$.

B

[DieselSJ]

sees, ahs knows stuff! *bows*

What I don't know is how much more you add to the torque setting when using anti-seize.

You actually want to use LOWER setting on the torque wrench when using any type of lube on the threads.

[yeep74]

You actually want to use LOWER setting on the torque wrench when using any type of lube on the threads.

Ditto. I usually say about 5%. But that is me I do not like my work coming apart.

B

[Elliott]

Thanks Brandon & Mark, I knew the specs ten years ago at Boeing... but never had occasion to use them.

I think that where some problems come up with the manifold bolts (other then when you use stainless) is that there's a couple you can't torque straight on and you really need a crows foot adaptor/90* to your torque wrench handle to be even/accurate on your torque down. :thumbsup:

[PlumCrazy]

I'm using the bolts on the 389 for the convertible. Mostly in non-stress applications like the tin, fuel pump block off, timing cover, oil pump and distibutor hold-down.
I've never had bad luck from this dealer http://stores.ebay.com/PVA-BOLTKITS-RACE-FOR-A-CURE-TEAM-1

Wayne S

[pb]

I did see at the time that the torque needed to be adjusted for the antiseeze and did accomodate for the ones that I used it on. IIRC it was around 7% difference (I had saw a website saying 5% and another saying 10% so I split the difference).

FWIW, they were loose on everything I had used them on, other than the four odd ones that held - 3 of which had no locktite while one did. I think the long bolt studs/ for the PS and AC were the only things holding the water pump on.

Anyway, at least it made for a quick teardown.

[J4GRAND]

Like PlumCrazy said, I used a SS bolt kit but only on non-stress components where the torque wasn't critical and used anti-sieze on all the bolts especially on the water pump where you have SS bolts, an aluminum timing cover, and cast iron engine connecting- this is the recipe for massive galvanic corrosion.

[chrisnsarah]

I give a :thumbsdown: for SS on any engine bolt, especially ones that are internal. No chance of corrosion anyway. I heard the same horror stories of SS not being able to stretch like a normal bolt and the galvanic corrosion.

I would recommend staying with OEM bolts and lubing and torquing them to specs. I use loctite on internal bolts,like head and crank bolts and antiseize on water neck, water pump, and external accessory bolts.