Four Holer Intake!

[drlocke]

Finally got one for the 327!

Many thanks to DARWIN! :thumbsup:

Now I just need to find a suitable 4bbl for it. I'm open to suggestions as to the more reliable ones used in this app. :thumbsup:

[Ristow]

shall i find and prep a 4180 holley for you?

[drlocke]

shall i find and prep a 4180 holley for you?

Sounds like a plan!

And I do believe I am remiss in my first posting not to send thanks to you as well for all your help in finding an intake for me. Many thanks again! :thumbsup:

[Ristow]

glad to help.

i think i have another 4180 here,i need to order a few gaskets for Jons',i'll the ones i need to put one together for you too.gimme a lil' time,i'm a bit slow,but steady.;)

you favor a manual choke,correct?

[drlocke]

glad to help.

i think i have another 4180 here,i need to order a few gaskets for Jons',i'll the ones i need to put one together for you too.gimme a lil' time,i'm a bit slow,but steady.;)

you favor a manual choke,correct?

I am of the old school, but whatever you feel is best is fine by me as far as the choke is concerned. If we go for the manual type I do still have a knockout left on the dash for the cable.

And no problem on the timeframe; it'll be much warmer here before I tear into that project. :thumbsup:

[Gambler68]

Congrats!! I've had one for almost 2 years now, but haven't done jack with it. Came with a valley pan too. Let me know what you find for gaskets, I need to do mine. I need to have it sandblasted, or maybe just give it a good swabbin in naval jelly and see how that works.

Dunno about carbs..I have a Holley 4bb 600 cfm that Flint gave me to try on it, but haven't done anything yet with it.

[tgreese]

If money is no object, the 470CFM Truck Avenger would be good. A Motorcraft 4100 would work too - basically a MC 2100 with vacuum secondaries. Used on HiPo 289s (small venturi - unobtainium!) and 352/390 Fords.

[drlocke]

Congrats!! I've had one for almost 2 years now, but haven't done jack with it. Came with a valley pan too. Let me know what you find for gaskets, I need to do mine. I need to have it sandblasted, or maybe just give it a good swabbin in naval jelly and see how that works.

Dunno about carbs..I have a Holley 4bb 600 cfm that Flint gave me to try on it, but haven't done anything yet with it.

A buddy of mine got me a gasket kit from somewhere when I pulled the heads and had them overhauled and updated for no-lead. I'll email him and ask.

I'd lean towards chemical derusting rather than sandblasting. If it doesn't all come out of the thing then there will be sand in places where sand should not be. :eek:

I've gotta clean up the one I just got, and I'll probably use the jelly and then agitate the thing in a large tub of water until all the acid is rinsed away.

Perhaps a Super owner can tell me what paint goes on the intake....

[KaiserMan]

Dave, if your buddy can't get you a gasket set for that intake I know an old boy that might have it. Heard of NB Pease in palmer? He probably has the largest stock of NOS parts for cars from the teens into the early 60's in New Engalnd.

[Gambler68]

Thinkin, since ya have the time and a slew of electrical equipment handy, you could always set up a plastic tub and let it soak with some current appplied to it..it can be done with a car charger...wait here's a cool site!

http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/electrolyticrust.html

If you're looking for a effective, relatively safe, and (best of all) cheap method for removing rust give electrolytic rust removal a try. I know that it sounds intimidating but it is actually very simple and won't damage the underlying material. This method basically consists of submerging the rusty metal in an electrically conducting solution of washing soda (also known as sodium carbonate). I've been told that baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) also works but I have no personal knowledge of this. The positive lead from an automotive battery charger is connected to a steel electrode and the negative lead is connected to the piece to be cleaned. When the charger is turned on a reaction occurs at the metal/rust interface on the object. this loosens the rust so it may be easily brushed off. This method does not appear to damage the underlying metal in any way, it seems to only remove the rust. Of course it will not improve the finish of the metal under the rust so any pitting on the metal will remain, just the rust will be removed from it. The cleaning solution should last almost indefinitely, only add water to replace that lost by electrolysis and evaporation.
Important Safety Precautions
The cleaning solution is alkaline and will irritate the skin and your eyes. Always use eye protection and rubber gloves when working with the solution and rinse off any spills.
The battery charger must be completely shielded from the cleaning solution. Make sure the battery charger is in a location where you won't accidentally spill any water or cleaning solution on it. The 6/12 volt leads from the charger are relatively safe but it is still possible to get a shock if you put your hands in the cleaning solution or touch the electrodes while the power is on. Turning off the power to the charger will eliminate that risk.
One of the side effects of the electrolysis is that the water will break down into its components, hydrogen and oxygen. For this reason you should work in a well ventilated area and avoid any sources of ignition, ie. cigarettes, or sparks from shorting out the battery leads.What do you need to start?
water
washing soda (sodium carbonate)
a battery charger (with a current meter if possible) or a car battery
steel or iron electrode (I use rebar as it's cheap and the anode will eventually be eaten away)
a plastic tub (slightly larger than the part to be cleaned, although it is possible to clean a part with some of it sticking above the solution and then rotating it to clean the rest it may leave a small mark or discoloration which is undesirable)http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/_graphics/shop/electrorust/electrodiagram.gif The Procedure
The first step in the process is to prepare the cleaning solution. dissolve roughly 1 tablespoon/gallon of washing soda in water. Ensure that all the crystals are dissolved.
Roughly clean the steel anode. It doesn't have to be perfect just good enough that you can get good electrical contact. Attach the positive lead (red) from the battery charger to the steel anode. Submerge the anode in the cleaning solution, ensure that the clamp from the battery lead isn't submerged. If it is it will be eaten away with this process. The steel electrode will also be eaten away but very slowly. If you are trying to clean a large piece you will likely need more than one anode as this process almost works "line of sight". In other words the anode and part to be cleaned shouldn't be hidden from each other, for example if you are cleaning a large piece and only have one anode the side facing the anode will clean better than the side facing away from the anode. You can use multiple anodes so that the piece to be cleaned is surrounded, just connect them together with wire.
Attach the negative lead from the battery charger to the piece to be cleaned. Submerge this piece, it doesn't matter if this clamp is submerged as it won't be eaten away. Ensure that this piece and the anode don't contact each other as this will cause a short circuit. They should be separated by several inches.
Turn on the battery charger. If the current is too high on the battery chargers current meter there are a number of things you can do to reduce it;
increase the distance between the part and the anode
dilute the solution by adding more water
if you have a 6/12 volt charger set it to the 6 volt settingIn the picture below you can see the plastic drum I use for cleaning large parts. The electrodes around the side are pieces of rebar connected with the black wire on the outside of the drum. If necessary I can have all the electrodes connected or only some of them. The piece that is in there has been connected for a few hours and you can see the rust colored scum now floating on the top of the solution. It's not visibel in this picture but the negative (black) lead from the battery charge is connected to the bar from which the part is hung.
http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/_graphics/shop/electrorust/plasticdrum.jpg Once it is set up and working you should see small bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen coming of the electrodes. Now you just have to wait. the time required to clean a part will depend on many variables:
size of the part
current used
how badly rusted the part isIf necessary it is acceptable to leave the operation on overnight so long as it is not in an enclosed space (see the safety precautions above). You may have to move the piece occasionally for better cleaning as the best cleaning is done on the part that is in direct view of the anode (line of sight). If a piece is too large to fit in the bath you will obviously have to rotate it at some point. It may also be necessary to take the part out of the bath and clean it with a wire brush to remove some of the now loose scale which will look like a dark sludge.
You can use a plastic scrub brush an water to remove the sludge, if it looks like you took the piece out too soon simply put it back in the cleaning solution. Once the piece is finished it will be a grey color. If it is an antique this may be an acceptable finish, otherwise use a wire brush to remove the grey oxide coating. Now you have to make sure the piece is dry so that it won't start rusting again and put some sort of rust inhibitor, wax, or oil coating.
Below are some pics of a test I did. As usual I forgot to take the before picture so the first picture is a different disc blade that was rusted the same as the ones that I had done. The second picture is what the disc looks like after being removed from the cleaning solution. The black stuff on it is quite loose and came off easily with a wire brush. The final picture is of the completed disc blade after wire brushing.
http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/_graphics/shop/electrorust/discbladebefore.jpg http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/_graphics/shop/electrorust/discbladepart.jpg http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/_graphics/shop/electrorust/discbladeafter.jpg NOTES
Sound plating should not be affected by this process but if it is loose for any reason it will likely flake off.
The cleaning solution may soften some paints.
Remove wooden parts/handles before cleaning if you plan to submerge the whole part.
The cleaning process relies on electrical contact for the cleaning. If you are cleaning a piece with more than one part (such as a pair of scissors) you must make sure that both parts have good electrical contact with the negative lead from the charger.
If you want to clean a piece that can't be submerged you can use a sponge soaked in the cleaning solution. Place it on the piece then an anode on top of it and make the electrical connections as before. You will have to rewet the sponge to ensure it doesn't dry out.
Use your imagination for the containers. You can use whatever will safely hold your parts, such as tupperware containers, plastic drums, vinyl eaves trough, wooden container lined with plastic, or whatever works for your piece.
This method may also help remove rusted screws or other fasteners.
While I have not concerned myself with it yet there is a chance that metal cleaned this way may be subject to hydrogen embrittlement. This can happen in many processes such as electroplating or welding. It should not be a problem unless you are cleaning hardened steel such as saw blades, knives, or chisels. If you are and you intend to use the item (rather than simply displaying it) you may want to try baking the part in an oven, I've heard of using temperatures from 300°F to 440°F (150°C to 225°C) for several hours. ASTM-B633 is a standard relating to zinc plating of parts and it specifies baking at 375°F (190°C) for 3 hours within 4 hours of plating. As I haven't done this myself I can't provide any more information on the process other than to say that you will have to watch the temperature to ensure that you don't affect the temper of the piece.

[drlocke]

Thanks for the electro-derusting tip! :thumbsup:

[drlocke]

Dave, if your buddy can't get you a gasket set for that intake I know an old boy that might have it. Heard of NB Pease in palmer? He probably has the largest stock of NOS parts for cars from the teens into the early 60's in New Engalnd. Thanks! I have other business in Palmer at some point in the near future, so I'll look 'em up. :thumbsup:

[Gambler68]

Thanks for the electro-derusting tip! :thumbsup:

hehe, I know it was a big c&p, but it's cool no? nice and eco-friendly too, although I love the naval jelly, that stuff is great for small pieces.

[chrisnsarah]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/schowalterc/327manif.jpg:D

[Gambler68]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/schowalterc/327manif.jpg:D


Hillborn mechanical fuel injection? suuure :D

[bigun]

There is a guy on one of the IHC sites who read and old article talking about using a 10% solution of sulfured molasses to take off rust it works quite well in fact the last I read he had gone to a farm auction and bought a stainless steel milk tank big enough to put fenders in.

[james1414d]

or you can spend the 20 bucks it takes to get it shot peened at an engine builder.

[Gambler68]

or you can spend the 20 bucks it takes to get it shot peened at an engine builder.

mine has rust in the runners..basically surface rust all over it. What shape is yours in DR?

[drlocke]

Newly acquired 4-holer--as unpacked.....
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/drlocke/Intake4.jpg

Old 2bbl setup.....
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/drlocke/holley2209a.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/drlocke/holley2209b.jpg

[Ristow]

love the throttle cable!

[Gambler68]

oh my, that's as fugly as mine! Now, that's the higher compression one off a Super, correct? not an Ambassodor or marine?

[Ristow]

oh my, that's as fugly as mine! Now, that's the higher compression one off a Super, correct? not an Ambassodor or marine?


whatcha' mean,higher compression one?-manifolds 'aint got nuthin' to with compression.

[Gambler68]

whatcha' mean,higher compression one?-manifolds 'aint got nuthin' to with compression.
The Vigilantes in the SuperWags ran a higher compression engine from what I've seen, that's what I meant.

edit: although I remember seeing something about those 327s having higher compression, I can't find anything that says that now...hmm

[flatbackdragon]

Ryan-from what I've found the 327's then had either 8.7:1 (2bbl) or 9.7:1 (4bbl)
Difference being from piston height with the 3 15/16" pistons used with the 4bbl and 3 7/8" pistons with the 2bbl manifold.
Available in 65-66 Ambassador, Classisc and Marlin as well as 66-67 Jeeps either way.

[Gambler68]

Ryan-from what I've found the 327's then had either 8.7:1 (2bbl) or 9.7:1 (4bbl)
Difference being from piston height with the 3 15/16" pistons used with the 4bbl and 3 7/8" pistons with the 2bbl manifold.
Available in 65-66 Ambassador, Classisc and Marlin as well as 66-67 Jeeps either way.

thanks Phil! :thumbsup:

silly question..are the 3 15/16" pistons still able to be bought?

[drlocke]

thanks Phil! :thumbsup:

silly question..are the 3 15/16" pistons still able to be bought?

IIRC a buddy of mine knows someone who can supply whatever is needed for one of those old Rambler engines. Hard to find parts--but not impossible.

[drlocke]

oh my, that's as fugly as mine! Now, that's the higher compression one off a Super, correct? not an Ambassodor or marine?

IIRC the PO sez this one is off a hi-po AMC car and not a Jeep. I'll need to re-examine my PMs.

[drlocke]

BTW I am reconciled that I am not going to get Super Wag performance by merely switching out the 2bbl carb and intake for a 4bbl setup. I think I'll get some increase in output. But I was hoping to at least get some degree of leaner burn at lower throttle settings. And I am not madly in love with the 2209 that's on top at the moment. Not all that swift a carb in my observation; I can adjust it for a nice lean idle and get a reasonably smooth idle--sometimes. But at slight off-idle throttle positions, or coasting downhill, I am getting a rather annoying rich smell to the exhaust if the tailgate window isn't tightly up. I think I can do better than this setup seems to be able to deliver.

[Gambler68]

I'll dig mine out and take a pic here inna few. Be interesting to compare them..and I need to get off my butt and get it cleaned up. Granted mine runs, but once the dry weather strikes here it's only going to leak worse..best to hit it while it's still in pre-sap run hibernation :D ;)

[Ristow]

dave-you're gonna have a pair of large,efficient annular boosters.

the top 2 are the primary.the bottom 2 are the secondaries,they are leg type boosters,probably what your current 2 barrel has,not as efficient as the annular type are.

i can put a stiffer spring in the secondary diaphragm,so the secondaries open late,if you like,for better economy.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/milltownmike/P10500331.jpg

[KaiserMan]

That intake doesn't look too bad. Shouldn't take much to clean it up. D&D Machine over in Easthampton can hot tank or put it in the shot cabinet for you. They did my 360's intake and it came out well.

[flatbackdragon]

Ryan-2 places I could find that have 2 different pistons for 327's but do not give details as to sizes, guess ya'd have to email/call them to get specs

www.kanter.com (http://www.kanter.com)
www.americanpartsdepot.com (http://www.americanpartsdepot.com)
www.amcstore.com (http://www.amcstore.com)
some are listed under AMC or Rambler, heck even Hudson, they all used the willys 8-327 and most internal parts are hard to come by but I think the second on list has quite a few parts for them,
There is a amc327 on ebay that is in NW ariz for 300$

[Gambler68]

Ryan-2 places I could find that have 2 different pistons for 327's but do not give details as to sizes, guess ya'd have to email/call them to get specs

www.kanter.com (http://www.kanter.com)
www.americanpartsdepot.com (http://www.americanpartsdepot.com)
www.amcstore.com (http://www.amcstore.com)
some are listed under AMC or Rambler, heck even Hudson, they all used the willys 8-327 and most internal parts are hard to come by but I think the second on list has quite a few parts for them,
There is a amc327 on ebay that is in NW ariz for 300$

I know Kanter..they want 50 bux a piston..(ironically, I sold the original Rambler engine to one of their guys that works at Kanter Customs. (cough..for what I paid for the entire Rambler actually :thumbsup:). I'll check out the other two..

I have 2 kaiser jeep 327s, one running pretty well in my 68, and a complete spare that Flint gave me.

[drlocke]

dave-you're gonna have a pair of large,efficient annular boosters.

the top 2 are the primary.the bottom 2 are the secondaries,they are leg type boosters,probably what your current 2 barrel has,not as efficient as the annular type are.

i can put a stiffer spring in the secondary diaphragm,so the secondaries open late,if you like,for better economy.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/milltownmike/P10500331.jpg

Sweet! :thumbsup: Lookin' good!

As for the spring I'll leave that up to your better judgement. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I have never floored the go-pedal in this beast. And have never had the need. I'd say set 'er up as you would your own.

[drlocke]

That intake doesn't look too bad. Shouldn't take much to clean it up. D&D Machine over in Easthampton can hot tank or put it in the shot cabinet for you. They did my 360's intake and it came out well.

That seems to make the most sense thus far as regards cleaning up this ductwork.

[Gambler68]

Thanks for inspiring me to finally DO this, instead of thinking about it :D

Does yours have the same casting numbers? or similar? And what's with the screw I found on the bottom?

I still need to break out the flexshaft dremel and clean up the insides, but the hard part is done. Used Naval Jelly and brass brushes on a drill.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intake1.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intake2.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intake3.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intake4.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intake5.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intake6.jpg

[KaiserMan]

Looks good. You sure it's a screw and not a casting mark? I've seen a lot of castings with marks in them like that. Looks just like a screw head.

[Gambler68]

Looks good. You sure it's a screw and not a casting mark? I've seen a lot of castings with marks in them like that. Looks just like a screw head.

that's probably what it is, yeah.

[Ristow]

they do that just to screw with us.:lol:




shut-up mike!

[Gambler68]

I needed to paint this before it started rusting again, soo...*whips out can of ceramic coat hi temp engine spray*
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intakedone1.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/cheech7474/intake/intakedone2.jpg


still need to clean the runners but the outside was taken down to almost shiny cast iron :)

[backpack09]

Don't you need to bake that after you paint it :)

[Gambler68]

Don't you need to bake that after you paint it :)

You can for 'added' durability, but you dont have to. Few hours in high altitude, high UV southwest sun makes it pretty darn hard as it is.