Does this make sense to anyone but me?

[motox-010]

I was lookin at BJ's and I was tryin to piece a kit together in my head, I came up with this. I could get the front lift springs for 74-91. and the full lift for the 63-73. From the 63-73 lift I would use the rear leafs, brake lines, shocks, and ubolts, and the front leafs for the 74-91. All I would have left is the front leaf for the 63-73. And I could probally sell those to some pre 73er.

[KaiserMan]

Why don't you jsut but the rear springs seperately? Pretty sure BJ's sells them that way.

[Tad]

The rear post bushing sizes are different between '73 and '75.
Pretty sure (beside the limited # or rigs) that's why they do not offer a package for '74-'75 Wag/Chero's.
Have you talked to them recently?
They may very well already have this figured out for you.

[motox-010]

I cant get the rear springs cause I own a '75 :banghead:
That is what I said to one of the online help guys. He said it should work.

[KaiserMan]

The rears should your wag if you install the correct bushings in them. AFAIK both a 73 and 75 use 52" long, 2.5" wide springs packs with a centered spring pin.

[motox-010]

I thought that the rear springs had odd bushings in the 74 and 75?

[KaiserMan]

Yes, that's why you would have to swap in the correct bushings to fit your 75. The springs them selves should be the same.

[motox-010]

But then I would have to get shocks, brakes, and other things seperately. I wanna make as few purchases as possible. I dont have enough money to get it now though. By the time I do get money they will hopefully have a full kit for 74 and 75.

[big71j2000]

my 71 has 52" springs on it i just had a brass bushing made for it them, i went with hangers under the frame now so i don't have posts anymore

[srobertsfsj]

I thought that the rear springs had odd bushings in the 74 and 75?

This is correct. When I lifted my '74 J20 I just bought a BJ's 6" lift and took the rear springs to the local spring shop and they re-rerolled the front eye of the rear springs to fit the stock bushing. Cant remember what it cost but it wasnt too bad IIRC.

[motox-010]

IIRC (now that I understand that acronym) the front springs are the same for 74-^^. But the rears are different in that they are post mount instead of the box. But, the 75-vv have post mount rears, just different bushings, while the the front is not the same mounts at all. Any way I take it, there will come a point in this where I will have wander away from a kit to get somethin right. Whether it be buy a full kit for 76-^^ and sell the rear springs for the right style, or buy a full kit for the 73-vv and sell the fronts for the right style.

[Tad]

Wait, stop, you are over analyzing this.
Your fronts are the same as all '74-'91 FSJ springs (not taking into account spring rates for various models).
Your rear are 52" springs, just like the '63 to '73 (and many GM rear springs) FSJ models but with different sized posts (and the related bushings that fit).

Now:
From your sig I see you are in SD and that's a big place.
Are you close to a spring shop?
A shop that is worth a Poo?
The problem with bushings (I have even got the wrong ones myself a few times) is that there are a great many versions and sizes out there.
A good spring shop, in a major area, will have access to all the books, sizes and numbers available that can fit.
(that link in my sig, the part about the Triangle Springs, that's nothing new, the shop found some GM 52" replacement springs and found the correct bushings to match)
If that's not an option:
Then you are going to have to do some measuring (you know they are 52" long, you know the spring pin is centered).
You are going to want to know the following:
The OD of the bushings (the area inside the spring eyes where they fit).
The ID of the bushings (the post size).
The ID of the width of your rear shackle (it's about 2 15/16", some call it 3").

I'm sure you have tried BJ's and Hell Creek.
If it was a setup that was avalable, it would be out there.
Read that "Early Wag Lift Seach" thing again, it's just a blueprint on what worked for others and to this day, no '74-'75 Wag/Chero owner has found the Pot-O-Gold at the end of the rainbow. If they had, we would know.
Baring that: Call Alcan (but they are going to need the numbers).

[KaiserMan]

Quick question. What exactly is different about the 74-75 posts? I've heard that they some have a mix of 7/8" and 1" posts, while some have all 1" posts.

Doesn't matter what the rear most post is, since his shackle goes on that. Reuse the stock shackle and you only have to worry about the front(rear) post. IF that is a 1" post, then why can't he can just order up a set of Hell Creek 70?-73 Gladiator/J-truck rear springs, since those year trucks have 1" posts (the ones that take rubber bushings anyway) both front and rear and are the same 52" length as the Wagoneer springs.

The front bushing would fit if his post is 1", and the rear bushing will as well since it just takes the 9/16" shackle bolt. Then all he would have to do is order up a set of 74+ frnt springs.

[motox-010]

So I should probally go measure that post and find out what size it is.

If any 74/75 post mounters would chime in on how they acquired lift, it would be much appreciated.

[jepj2000]

Hell Creek's website says they have lift springs for all FSJs now, so why can't you just get everything from them? If that does not work just run blocks in the rear until springs are beening produced, bocks are not bad at a 4" hight and are not expensive either so you won't lose much money when get lift springs for the rear. This way you will have everything you need except for the springs and then you can just swap those in later.

Rankin

[srobertsfsj]

Quick question. What exactly is different about the 74-75 posts? I've heard that they some have a mix of 7/8" and 1" posts, while some have all 1" posts.

IIRC they are 1" posts, on the J20 at least. Not sure what the waggy is.

[Tad]

Quick question. What exactly is different about the 74-75 posts? I've heard that they some have a mix of 7/8" and 1" posts, while some have all 1" posts...
I think the only place we have found that mix is my '72 J2000 (rear front at 1", rear rear at 7/8") just another one of those things we can not seem to explain.
:(

[KaiserMan]

I think the only place we have found that mix is my '72 J2000 (rear front at 1", rear rear at 7/8") just another one of those things we can not seem to explain.
:(
AFAIK all of the 70?-73's have that. Mine does. on the 63-69?'s all of the posts both front and rear where 7/8", then starting in 70? Jeep used a heavier duty 1" post for the front of the rear springs.

So the 74-75's have 1" front and rear for the rear springs? If so the HC springs should work.

[motox-010]

The reason that I wanted to do the thing at BJ's, is because it would be easier to get it all from one place. I didnt want to track down shocks, brake lines, etc.

I looked at the Hell Creek site and could not find any springs for my year Wag.

[jepj2000]

Have you tried sending Hell Creek an email about your wag. I have heard that they have really good customer service there and he might be able to help you out. I just looked at the website and it says 74-75 FSJ lift kits are available. I would think sinse it is labeled as a kit, not just springs like he labels the 63-73 lifts, that it will come with everything you are looking for. If it is just springs then just order those from there and then oder everything else from BJs that would not be bad at all because they should help you out with the rest of the stuff for sure. Thats what I would do.

Rankin

[motox-010]

Checked with Hell Creek, and they do in fact have the parts for a 4" kit. But it runs $740!

[KaiserMan]

Yeah, no one ever said that Hell Creek lifts where cheap. They are pretty spendy as far as FSJ lifts go.

What do you get for that price?

[motox-010]

Here is the email I recieved.

Hi,
We understand that the only difference between the 1976 Wagoneers, and the 1975 Wagoneers is the rear post-mount spring. We do, indeed, have the rear post-mount springs with the 1 inch front bushings, so, if all of the rest of the parts are correct, then we can offer you a complete kit. Our rear springs give a 4 inch lift, so, if you want a 6 inch kit, we will
have to sell you 2 inch blocks for the rear springs. We have 6 inch front
springs for the 1976 and up Wagoneers, which are the same as yours.

The price of the kit is $740.00, plus actual UPS Ground to your Zip Code.

Thanks,
Tom


Havent got back to them yet, but the site says they have kits. Dont know what they contains though.

[KaiserMan]

Not that bad since it's a complete kit. Tom will do you right. If you have the cash for it I'd go this route. Hell Creek has A+ customer service and good products.

[motox-010]

I will just have to find out what it is composed of tomorrow.

[motox-010]

Well, it is a complete kit

Hi, Sawyer,

Besides the springs, the kit includes Nitro shocks, a steering stabilizer
cylinder, u-bolts, brake hoses and a drop pitman arm.

Thanks,
Tom

Just gotta get about $800 together.

[motox-010]

If I wanted to do a 2" body lift, what else would I need to do on top of the suspension lift?

[jepj2000]

I say go for it. Sure it comes with a higher price tag than most kits but it will be the best rought for your jeep. If you have the money this is what you would want to do. Like Thom said they will treat you right with there customer service too.

Rankin

[jepj2000]

What is your goal for a lift hight?

Rankin

[motox-010]

Well, I have been talkin it over with my friend. And I think I wanna go 7"
First 4" will be acquired with the Hell Creek kit.
The next 2" will be a body lift.
And then the final inch to put me at 7" will be 1" blocks in the rear and 1" lift shackles in the front.

Calculated it at around $950

Man, my friend cant even get 4" for his dakota under 1 grand

[jepj2000]

Yeah tell me about it! I put a lift on my 01 chevy HD and Don't want to even think on how much that cost.:( Lets just say I could have 4 FSJs now instead of 2. OK what size tire are you wanting to run? Is your cherokee a wide track or narrow track?

Never mind it is a wagon sorry about that!

Rankin

[KaiserMan]

Why don't you just go SOA? it will get you your 7" and probably cost less, even after you adress the steering.
You will have to raise the rear, but that would probably be as simple as a shackle flip and an AAL or block.

[jepj2000]

Yeah I agree soa would be the best bet for that amount of lift. Talk to Tadsal about all of that. That should give you the perfect amount of lift for the front and if you could get the spring lift and bock for the rest to match. I think this would be a better way to get there than a body lift.

Rankin

[motox-010]

Would the SOA stuff for the front of the 76 and up work for mine? If so, then I would prefer to go that way.

Also, do 35s sound about right for a 7" lift? Or should I go bigger? I wanna be able to keep my fenders intact.

[jepj2000]

Yeah I would think so everything I have heard of is the same. Send tadsal a pm about what your goal is and he should be able to tell you what you need for a complete as possible kit. I think you would be much happier with this set up when going with this much lift.

Rankin

[motox-010]

Ya, I looked on the site, and it is only $109 for the front kit. But after I do the welding on the axle, it is prett much for good right? I am still gonna have to get some info and what not on rear suspension.

[jepj2000]

It does not have to be. you can leave the original spring perches on and if you wanted to go back to stock then just cut the soa perches off and you are back at stock. I think if you can find a 2.5" or 3" block and plus the 4" springs for the back then you should be good on the rear.

Rankin

[KaiserMan]

I think you will be lucky to get 35" tires on with 7" of lift. BJ's reccomends 33" tires with thier 6" lifts.

[jepj2000]

Out comes the sawsall! I agree it will be a tight fit. But see what happens.

Rankin

[motox-010]

So should I run 33s and have room for flex?

[jepj2000]

Well what kind of wheeling are you wanting to do with the wag?

Rankin

[motox-010]

Well, this summer I hope to make it to Ouray. Then there will be some muddin in the hills here. And trails in the hills. Which range to real easy to built 4x4s have trouble in it. And there is a "Death Pit" I wanna try.

[jepj2000]

Well if you don't do a lot of flexing then you could pull off 35s. You can cut the fenders some to make a little more room and maybe have room for both 35s and flex. If you wheel a lot the body won't be in good shape at the end of it anyway so keep that in mind. Plus sense it is metal you can always fix what you cut off or dent. So I would put 35s on there, cut the fenders and have fun. If you don't want 33's and 35s won't fit then there are some 34x10.5 super swaper LTBs that might fit a litte better.

Rankin