4bbl Holley carb?

[Mikel2]

Hello,
My 78 Cherokee Chief came with a 4bbl Holley carb, which I think is original. Does anybody know what model it is? How much would a rebuild kit cost for it? It has a pretty nasty tendency to flood while the truck is at steep angles, is there anything I can do to avoid that? This would be my first carb rebuild, so... http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif
Thanks.

Mikel

[RudyC]

No it's not stock.
Take off the air cleaner and on the front of the carb, on the front of choke housing there are some numbers. one line says:
LIST-XXXXX-X
What does your say?
If I can find my Holley book I might be able to tell you.
Rebuilding the holley is simple. just a pain cleaning off all the gaskets.
Experiment by lowering the float levels a little at a time till it gets better.
I just Installed a Holley 4bbl on mine too.
Is it vacuume secondaries?


------------------
"THE GREAT SANTINI"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).

http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[JeepFreak]

Hey Rudy when you find your book let me know and I will shoot a Holley number your way.

------------------
JeepFreak

[RudyC]

Give me the # Jeepfreak.

------------------
"THE GREAT SANTINI"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).

http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[JeepFreak]

Parts stores can't seem to place it from there numbers they have so maybe you will have some more luck.

On the choke housing there are two sets of numbers...

BD457 is the first
2216 is the second

There is also another number on the top of the front left side of the venture casting that reads...

6R 7809

This carb is typical Holley except for the fact that it doesn't use a metering block in the back. In the back it uses an aluminum metering plate with fixed jetting. I have drilled the jets on this block for a little more ummph. Also the accelorator pump housing is very shallow. I could use a deeper pump casting and a better pump cam. I have a little starvation problem with this carb under quick stabs at the throttle. I got the carb for free years ago from a guy that said it was on his Chevy truck but he had no clue where it came from or even what size it was. I am guessing it to be a 650 but could be a 550 for all I know. I just rebuilt it using a universal Holley kit. If you know these carbs really well than maybe you could tell me which power valve is best to use for this application. I have tried both the 6.5 and 7.5 but both seem to act the same to me. I can run a Edelbrock 1406 on this 360 with the current timing and all is well but with this Holley I get some poping thru the carb when I drop the throttle from closed to WOT. I have used Holleys carbs for years with no tuning troubles but this carb has been a tuning nightmare. I am running a primary jet of 75 right now but have went as high as 80 with no luck for my problem. No vacuum leaks to speak of. Like I said I believe it is this carb because my 1406 works fine on the motor. I think if I could find a deeper accelorator pump housing and a faster pump cam(the cam on the throttle) that I may be able to stop this problem.

------------------
JeepFreak



[This message has been edited by JeepFreak (edited January 03, 2001).]

[JeepFreak]

Rudy, was you able to track down this carb yet?

------------------
JeepFreak

[RudyC]

Not yet. Thought I remebered were it was but it's not there. It's still in one of the moving boxes.

What number is the "LIST" number?

Holleys are a love-hate affair at best. LOve that the parts are readily available and easily tuned but when they get those bugs you pull out your hair.
It depends on what the carb was originally intended for. The pump nozzels my be too small for the application or the accel pump lever is not adusted right.
What is your vacuume readings?

------------------
"THE GREAT SANTINI"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[This message has been edited by RudyC (edited January 03, 2001).]

[JeepFreak]

My brother has my vacuum gauge so I can't get any readings there. It will be this weekend before I can get it back. As far as the list number goes those are the only numbers I have. I know what numbers you are searching for but this one just has these. I am sure this is a made for GM OEM Holley but just can't seem to track down what it is. The accelorator pump is functioning perfectly just not delivering enough fuel. I have the cam on number one right now trying to get it to come on a fast as I can. You probably know what I'm talking about with the cam setings???(accelorator pump cam on the throttle) To be honest the carb didn't really start to give me these problems untill I swaped the motor and carb into the 85 Wag. I took the motor out of a 75 Wag. Timing for the 75 is somewhere around 5 degrees BTDC and I am running 13 BTDC right now with the 85's ignition setup. That could be some off the problem there but she ran fine till it got a little cold then seemed to start the popping. Well figured it was time to jet up for the weather so did a rebuild and went from 72's to 75's. She ran better but didnt solve the popping. If you can find out what the carb was meant for then I can figure weather or not it can calibrated for the 360. I ran this setup for around a year in the 75 with no problems so it could be ignition but I'm leaning toward carb right now because I can ropm and stomp with the 1406 on there. I am just not willing to take it off of the 78 Chero for my wifes Wag. Well any info would be helpful. Like I said before I have taken the carb off and went to the local parts store but none of the numbers seem to match anything in there books.

------------------
JeepFreak



[This message has been edited by JeepFreak (edited January 04, 2001).]

[RudyC]

JeepFreak,
I know about the cam that operates the pump lever.
you do need the vacuume guage though.
When I tuned my carb I got 16Hgs but on my friends identical wagoneer he only had 10 Hgs. And ignition timing affects vacuume readings.
I haven't fine tuned mine yet either as I've been too busy whith the Holidays to do anything. I start something and someone shows up and it's MArgarita Time again. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
not to mention I am selling "The Great Santini" so I may put the Moto 2bbl back on if I get a good offer. Always hold on to a good Holley http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif. Found a nice 79 Waggy Limited i might get.
But I do have to find my Holley tech files as I'm pretty rusty on them by now. Spoiled by my Q jet.
wow 72 to 80s? I'm running 62s on one carb and 58's on the back up carb.
The rear metering plate has a number stamped on it. Do you know what it was? If it's a 600cfm it's usually is marked 30.

Oh did you adjust your float level? Different fuel pump pressure may be keeping the level too low letting your powervalve suck some air.

Before you buy a 50cc pump go up a size on the discarge nozzle.



------------------
"THE GREAT SANTINI"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).

http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[JeepFreak]

Float levels were the first thing I adjusted when I got it back on the truck. This 360 I'm running this on isn't built stock so thats probably why I'm having to use larger jets. I'm running 10:1 with a mild cam but nothing to crazy since I have alot of vacuum gizmos to run. Where are you taking you vacuume reading from?

------------------
JeepFreak

[This message has been edited by JeepFreak (edited January 04, 2001).]

[JeepFreak]

Rudy I finally got the problem solved with the carb. Some reason the gasket for the metering block was wrong one and was blocking the power valve circut completely. Was able to jet down to 65 on the primary's and she runs great. Vacuum reads 15 at idle so I went half of that for the power valve with 7.5 and seems to come in real nicely. Still would like to figure out what this carb is and what it was intended for...Anyone else got a Holley book??? I was thinking that maybe the casting was funny and that it might read 80457 rather than BD457 which would make it a universial 600cfm.

------------------
JeepFreak

[RudyC]

Good call JF,
like i said before on a 600cfm on a 360 i never went past a 66 main jet on a holley (once went .69 but that was a special motor http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif). i settled on a 62 right now on mine.
I sprained an ankle so i can't go to the storage to look in my boxes for the book.
I did however email your numbers to holley tech service to see what they can give us.


------------------
"THE GREAT SANTINI"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).

http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[JeepFreak]

Excellent! I welded an O2 sensor in yesterday evening and tuned the carb again using it. Went down to a final jet size of 63. I posted the results on another thread. Thanks for all the info.

------------------
JeepFreak

[RudyC]

ok i also had a list-80457s on my powerwagon and it is a universal 4barrel (about 200 bucks at PAW a few years ago). i mounted it on a holley street dominator intake.
if i recall the standard jet size was a .66 that i had to rejet to a smaller if i recall 62 or 64 jet. dont remember the secondary plte sice it coud be a #30 so thats a .64 jet size. how much was the O2 sensor? I might try that.

------------------
"THE GREAT SANTINI"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).

http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[JeepFreak]

I went to the local Orielys and got it for $60. It was money well spent. My carb is indeed a 80457. I was reaching and hoping that I didn't drill out the secondary plate to much but it looks like I got it pretty close. Rule of thumb I have heard for Holleys are to jet the back side 6 to 8 sizes larger than the primaries. Well I drilled them out to right at 71 so I got lucky I didn't go to far. According to the Holley book I have the 80457 came with 69's stock which is what this had when I got it. Let me know if you do the O2 thing. I think it was the best upgrade I have done thus far. By the way I got the single wire O2 and just had them look for the cheapest they had.

------------------
JeepFreak

[RudyC]

OK yo are right. long term memory and too many carbs ago. it was a #69. too rich so i went to #66 for a while and went to a smaller size when back up to #64. but went q jet when they would not pass the visual part of smog check cuz the Holley carb.

------------------
"THE GREAT SANTINI"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).

http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[Mikel2]

Thank you all!
Rudy, IŽm 4000 miles away from my jeep. As soon as I come back, IŽll look those numbers up. I saw a book on Holley carbs that I might buy before I start playing with the carb http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif
Thanks again,
Mikel

[joe]

Mikel, are you sure it's a Holley? The stock 4v on a 78 is a Motorcraft(a version of the Holley 4v) model 4350. The ID numbers would be either 6THA4 or 6THM4 depending on if the the rig has an automatic or manual trans.

------------------
Regards,
-joe
63 2-dr Wag, 73 J-4000, 82 CJ-8

[Mikel2]

Hello Joe,
It says Holley in the float bowl. There was a bunch of numbers somewhere else, but I didnŽt write them down http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/frown.gif
Mikel

[JeepFreak]

Get the numbers off the air horn(for the choke butterfly valve) and we can tell you what carb it is. I finally found my Holley book.

------------------
JeepFreak

[RudyC]

The carb i have on now is a holley/motorcraft unit that is basically a standard holley 4160 4bbl with motorcraft written on it and its california emmission legal. I yanked it off a 460 ford truck.

------------------
"BULLSEYE"
1979 WAGONEER, 360,
Holley 600 CFM carb.
Stock 4bbl Intake,
TFI CONVERSION, TH400, Q-TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
http://home.earthlink.net/~zzjoecool/index.html

[This message has been edited by RudyC (edited January 08, 2001).]