Any advise about this? What would you do?

[B-itchy Tiger]

There is this continual vibration, subtle grinding noise coming from underneath /back area of my wagoneer.

The first mechanic I take it to says it is most definately the transfer case.

The second mechanic I take it to says it is definately within the rear differential, could be axle or more expensively within the differential itself.

What ever it is, it is not going away and will eventually break and make things worse.

I do not want to keep spending $40 for a diagnosis, who do I trust?

It would be an expensive mistake to fix the wrong part.

[The Anti-Chrysler]

That sound could commonly be caused by lack of gear oil in the rear end, or better yet, wheel bearings in the rear axle.

[mandoneer]

Tie a friend to the undercarrage and take as trip around the block and if he survives than he can tell you where the grinding is coming from!!

[J4GRAND]

I'd bet that it is a wheel bearing. Take it to a brake/muffler shop and have them hoist it up. Turn tire and listen or grab tire and move up/down, in/out. If any movement, bad bearings.

[mandoneer]

actually take the driveshaft off and start and put in gear and see if you can here the noise - if you can than its the X-fer if you cant than its the axle and to make sure put it in 4x4 (with the rear shaft off) and take it around the block if it grinds when its moving and no rear driveshaft than it is prolly the axle- good luck

[B-itchy Tiger]

Anti chrysler - are you refering to the differential fluids? because I had that replaced and it did not solve the problem. Wheel bearings would be a cheaper fix?

Mandoneer - I saved my friend the trouble and just used a lift, and I still get two different viewpoints.

It is so hard to find a reliable mechanic specific to these machines.

[Tad]

Suttle grinding, slight vibration?
That was my wheel bearing noise and symtoms.

[B-itchy Tiger]

Excuse my ignorance, but what where how much to replace Wheel bearings?

My thought is that a wheel bearing goes in the end of the axle and gives smooth/even rotation to the wheels?

[The Anti-Chrysler]

Originally posted by Gregory:
Excuse my ignorance, but what where how much to replace Wheel bearings?

My thought is that a wheel bearing goes in the end of the axle and gives smooth/even rotation to the wheels?I'm not sure exactly how much it would cost to have them replaced, but it shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks, parts & labor. I do everything myself, so I'm a little out of touch to what places are charging nowadays.

I would say though, if other mechanics have been merely parts changing on your rig, trying haphazardly to fix the problem by chance, and charging you anyway after it wasn't the problem, then I think you should go back to them and make them fix it right for you.

Around here, if a mechanic replaces a part that doesn't fix the problem, you don't have to pay for it, or they can put it back as was. Of course they try to make you pay for it anyway, and get alot of people. :mad:

And yes, the bearings are in the rear axle, and support the axle shafts. smile.gif

[ January 14, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: The Anti-Chrysler ]

[Langdon]

My suggestion for diagnosis--get a couple long lenths of cheap clear hose. Attatch them to the vents for the axle and T-case and route the other ends into the cab. Drive around and listen to the tubes, you will be able to determine if the noise is coming from either place. Good luck,

[The Anti-Chrysler]

That sounds like a pretty nifty idea! I'm still guessing it's in the rear axle, though, so maybe start with the rear axle first.

[mandoneer]

when and if you have (or replace the bearings yourself )get the races also dont just replace the bearing I have run into problems with the bearing not matching the existing race exactly and causes slop in the bearing - if you do it yourself get a book on how to do it but it isnt hard and the only part that you should have to have done for you is gettibg the bearing removed and re-pressed on the axle shaft (unless you have a puller and press) you can do it all yourself but IMO is it easier to just have a shop press them on and get new bearing retainers and make sure that you keep the shims with the corrosponding side of the axle and you should be good and save alot of money ,if it in fact is the wheel bearings, do both sides even if only one seems to be the prob

[Gawdzilla.]

just bring it over and let's look at it.

[Tad]

Originally posted by Gregory:
...Excuse my ignorance, but what where how much to replace Wheel bearings?...Not ignorance at all, this is important stuff on a FSJ or any rear Dana44.
There are many posts on this but I'll cover it briefly.
If you have sturdy jack its pretty easy to isolate a bad wheel bearing from something else.
You don't need it running, jack it up, leave the tire on and start yanking on the wheel.
In/out, up/down, back and forth.
There should be no play at all, anywhere, period.
If there is, the bearing is bad, and potentially dangerous, get them replaced if they are.
I've done rear Dana 44 bearings and have screwed them up several times, not always, but it can happen.
I've given up doing them myself, I don't have aproblem yanking the shafts and oil seals, just hate pressing them on.
Most recently I started using Tucson Differential (http://www.tucsondifferential.com/) , it was $59 per side for bearings and oil seals and $15 per axle labor to press them on.
So about $150 to feel safe, well worth it in my opinion.

[mandoneer]

actually the axle should have .006 end play to be properly seated and that is a measurement that you can FEEL but not SEE so when you pull on the wheel you should feel a very very very small amount of play in and out , top to bottom or left to right you shouldnt feel anything or such a smallamount that you cant be sure that you even felt anything ,even with the .006 end play because the play that you are feeling on the in and out is the cage allowing the stress of the "squish"factor and if you have no play than you will burn the bearing QUICK , and 150 for bearings to be pressed is alot high in my opinion and why would you need to have a shop install the seals you can do that with a drift punch and a hammer so the only thing that I would advise is to have the bearings pressed on by a shop so if they screw them up you can go back but most shops wont screw them up because it is almost fool proof with the right equipment - BUT and I mean BUT if your SAFE FEELING is what your really after than DONT AND I mean DONT do it yourself and have some shop do the whole thing because it does take some trial and error and you will always second guess yourself (as always happens when you do something for the first time )but whatever ya do GOOD LUCK and For Gods Sake At The Least Have Fun Doing It !!!I.E. if your FUN is doing it yourself than go for it but if you like spending money (like all good capitalists should ) than go for it that way ... my $0.02

[Rande]

Before you take the rear axle apart, check the ujoints in the driveshaft. If one is bad, the driveshaft will amplify the noise. It also makes it hard sometimes to tell if the noise is coming from the tcase or the axle because the whole driveshaft is making the noise.

[B-itchy Tiger]

Gawdzilla - I just spent the day in Monrovia watching flicks at the 12plex for freeeeee...

Anyway, I did not feel comfortable to drive the wagoneer out there for possible damage, however I thought about you.

One of these days for sure, This vibration things gotta go...

[B-itchy Tiger]

I need to find someone local who I can trust and is not going to cost me an arm and a leg.

[Gawdzilla.]

good luck! I don't know of any mechanics here who are Jeep pros. The only decent mechanic I know of is a bug guy in Mar Vista. Dunno if he's even there still since it's been years since I've lived there. What I would do is put the whole thing on jack stands and have someone run it thru the gears slowly to isolate the noise. Or do what Langdon said-it's really easy to push a hose on a vent nipple and put the other end inside the wag. Listen to it yourself. Don't trust the guy at the shop who's lookin to go to Cancun on your dollar. Hearing a noise is free- wiggling wheels and ujoints is also free. After you do that, you should have a better idea of what to take apart and fix.

Free movies, eh? How you manage that?

[B-itchy Tiger]

I will take it to the mechanics I have worked with since the begining and diagnosis as mentioned above.

The free movie thing, well I did the artwork on the walls in that theater so free flicks are the perk..

[Gawdzilla.]

if they'll let you in under the lift have them show you where the problem is. I wouldn't trust 90% of the mechanics here.

[Wagoneer622]

I'm with Rande on the driveshaft u-joints. I had a grinding noise on my 83 with vibration and it turned out being bad u-joints and a cheap easy fix you could do yourself

[badaboom]

Gregory ,
Ditto Rande comments.
Ditto Gawzilla comments.

Also if you do drive the jeep and get it to normal operating tempeture when you come to a stopping point you can take your hand and feel the wheel/rim sometimes you may feel a high heat condition. If this is to be true, its is most probably the axle bearing.(careful here I have felt some hot ones).
I hate to put this spin in here but sometimes on worse case senarios with the axle bearings. If they require replacement and are the problem area you can sometimes have a acutal axle problem which may require replacement of the axle itself. Could be a propagated issue from the bearing or the axle has a problem that gave the the bearing the problem.

Good luck resolving your bad vibrations.

[ January 16, 2004, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: badaboom ]

[B-itchy Tiger]

Thanks guys, I just spoke with my mechanic and we will put it back on the lift Monday and take a closer look..

[Rogue]

I do not want to keep spending $40 for a diagnosisthey actually charge you money just to listen to a noise? that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while - man I need to move to California and get a job! geez! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[B-itchy Tiger]

Yeah, it is quite an irritation especially when one is not a mechanic by day and depends on the truth of others.

I wish it were not the case in this town, but it seems very hard to find an honest mechanic oround here.

[Gawdzilla.]

gregory where do you live? Do you have a jack and jack stands? I can stop by on the way home from work one day and check it out w/you if you like. I'm not up to par with the rest of the guys on the board, but I think I can tell the difference between a noisy TC and a noisy bearing! Plus I can swing a pretty mean 10lb sledge! lol

[B-itchy Tiger]

Wow, that is very nice of you Ed,
However I believe it all just went last night.

Shifted from 2wd to 4wd to get up a steep slippery mountain. Sure enough on the way back I switched back into 2wd, when it engaged, there was no power and just a bad spinning sound. So I switched back into 4wd and got home which was close by.

Seems like a transfer case after all? You would not happen to have an extra one would ya?

CRAP! - It was just over a year old too!

[B-itchy Tiger]

I live in L.A. at the crossroads of FAirfax and Melrose by the way...Will be nice to meet you one of these days..

[Gawdzilla.]

read and try this:
http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=023735#000000

[ January 17, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Gawdzilla ]