Got welder for my birthday!! Q?'s

[jpcoutts]

My wonderful, FSJ tolerant wife bought me a new welder for my birthday. It's a Lincoln AC 225 stick welder. What a great wife I have! I was actually looking at a mig welder and I'm curious about whether or not I should risk seeming ingrateful by trading the stick welder in on the mig? I plan to use it to do body work as well as heavier stuff like bumpers etc.

Any advice from the welders on the board would be greatly appreciated. Plus I could then spread the blame around a little!

Thanks

[Tad]

Trade it.
You will have no fun trying body work with AC stick, probably not much luch either. AC is a pretty intolerant learning curve.

[nsanebiker]

If you do that, let me know how it works out for you. :D

You can use a stick for body work, but you have to have patience and practice on something you don't mind blowing holes through. The easiest way to do body metal is a lot of little welds. Kinda like spot welding, but you have to be careful not to get the metal too hot or it will warp/bow. (actually I do the same thing with a mig)

On the other issue, you know your wife better than we do, so that is your decision on that. :thumbsup:

[KaiserMan]

I agree with Tad. A mig is easier to learn and use then an arc welder.
Body work is sooo much nicer to do with a mig.

I myself, would just buy a mig welder. Will make the wife feel better, and sometimes it's nice to have an arc welder around.

[fullsizejohn]

I am with you kaiserman, migs are wonderful tools but when i really want to put the man on something i pull out the big stick.

I say keep it and wiggle yourself into a mig soon for your body work and such.

Just my 2 cents:D

[jpcoutts]

Thanks for the input Tad and Kaiserman. What is the thickest steel a small mig will be good for? I know that the store(Lowe's) where she bought it has two migs, a 110v and a 220v. Will the 110v weld the 3/16 or 1/4 stock I'm plannig to use for the flat bed for my '67?

[fullsizejohn]

My lincoln mig(110 power) is rated up to 5/16" thickness. I use it up to 1/4 and put my complete trust in every bead i pull.

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

HEY! THAT 225 LINCOLIN IS A GOOD WELDER..BEATS THE HELL OUT OF THEM LITTLE AC JUNK $99.00 ONES...I'VE HAD ONE OR TWO I THINK:confused: .WELL ANYWAY, THEY ONLY COST $75.00 BUCKS NEW, BACK THEN.I BUILT QUITE A FEW STOCK CARS WITH THEM! YOU COULD FORGET THE DUTY CYCLE,YOU COULD KEEP BURNING ONE ROD RIGHT AFTER AN OTHER:cool: GOOD MACHINE:cool: :cool: ....DON'T KNOCK YOUR WIFE,SHE DID BUY YOU A GOOD WELDER,BUT NOT FOR WHAT, YOU WANT USE IT FOR....LOL.. YOU WOULD BE BURNING MORE HOLES :banghead: THAN YOU WOULD BE TRYING TO REPAIR IN SHEET METAL :)

[Tad]

Thanks for the input Tad and Kaiserman. What is the thickest steel a small mig will be good for? I know that the store(Lowe's) where she bought it has two migs, a 110v and a 220v. Will the 110v weld the 3/16 or 1/4 stock I'm plannig to use for the flat bed for my '67?
I have put this setup a few times.
http://millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_dvi/
I know that's pricey, but I have let friends weld on my hood with that and did my entire rear suspension with it in 110V mode on a dedicated 20amp circuit.
My students pass 1/4" face and root bends with it in 110V mode.
I'm not a Miller person overall, buy mostly Lincoln products, but that is one darn fine machine.
I'm not saying you should wait.
There are some darn fine machines out there for 110V use.
Lincoln, Miller, Hobart and ESAB.
My students can also pass 3/16" face and root bends (flux cored) on Lincoln SP135's, which can be setup for gas in a matter of $100 and a few minutes.

[vacca rabite]

Unless you are doing a job with steel thicker then 1/4 inch, go with the Lincoln or Miller 110 V Mig.

For doing body work, you are going to want to get a bottle of sheilding gas, as flux core is much harder to use on thin sheet metal.

Everything on this car, from the sheet metal body, to the rotisserie that I made to restore it on, were welded together with a Lincoln 140 (110V) welder.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/97/253639032_0bcca5acf1.jpg

You are going to blow holes all over the place with a stick welder, though they are great for thicker metal jobs.
Zach

[jpcoutts]

The knowledge base with this bunch is truly amazing. Thanks to all of you. Is it safe to say it looks like there is a general agreement that I should be thinking about the Lincoln 110v mig at Lowe's. I read somewhere that you can make multiple passes with a smaller welder to work on heavier pieces, but actually from the looks of Zach's work maybe thats not an issue.

[jpcoutts]

Tad, I looked at the Miller machine in your post. Wow, wish I had a good reason to spring for that, but it would take a little more than I have on hand! I'll have to check on the Lincoln model that Lowe's has on the shelf. I bet it is the entry level machine and it appears that the SP 135 is a step up. Experience tells me to get the best I can afford and that looks like a good option. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.(To you and everyone!)

[tas7107]

Is that a 914 ya got there..Been sooo close to buying one at times...

[Tad]

Cool, I understand, really I do.
Do not buy this.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=28013-1703-K2278-1&lpage=none
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=8958
It is not setup to be able to run GMAW, just flux cored.
That's all I could find on the lowes site.
Do you have a Home Depot in your area?
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0820765230.1173094075@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccgkaddkgdlkmficgelceffdfgidgim.0&MID=9876
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=7112
That one is.
Make sure you research anything you buy so it fits your needs.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/lecotextsearch.asp
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/mig/
http://www.esabna.com/products/mig-welders.cfm
(I do not think ESAB offers a 110V consumer product anymore)

[jaber]

Is there a kit that would make an arc welder into a mig? Thought I'd seen a convertion somewhere.....

[vacca rabite]

Is that a 914 ya got there..Been sooo close to buying one at times...
Yes. 1976. I'll be painting it as soon as that ambient temps get above 70 (about a month from now). Then I get to put it back together and hot rod the motor. :-)

Cool, I understand, really I do.
Do not buy this... (cheap lincoln flux core only welder)

Listen to Tadsal. However, when I got my Mig, I bought it at Loews. The stores in my area all have more welding stuff then what is on the corperate website.

The other thing that I will suggest. Any MIG welder you buy will come with a hand held face shield. Throw it away. Buy yourself an auto-darkening helmet. The difference is night and day. My welding impoved ten fold once I could see what I was doing.

Another trick, when welding sheet metal (which will be most of your rust repairs) is to clamp some copper ( I use a section of flattened copper pipe) to the back of the seam. It acts as a heat sink, and the weld will not stick to it. It makes you less likely to blow holes (but you will anyway, its part of the learning curve).

The only other thing that I will suggest is to make sure you have the metal cleaned on both sides, and make sure that you clean/cut off all the rust before you start welding.

I'll warn you, though. Once you start welding, it gets addictive. You start looking around thinking "I could weld that.... Ohh, and that too."

Zach

[jpcoutts]

The local Lowe's has this one: http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=38790 $457 It is a Pro-Mig 140, plugs in to 120v and seems to be a complete set up except for the gas.

The info on the lincoln site looks like this one would fit my needs. It is a little confusing when you look at what comes with the unit and what will be an extra expense.

[KaiserMan]

I'd second a Miller welder. All my high school shop had for migs where Millers. I loved the things. They took a lot of abuse and never broke down.
I'd kill for the 350X we had.

I'm using a Snap-On welder at home. A 20+ year old AMW-1000. Good for up to 1/4". If they still make them (I doubt it), I would also reccommend one of those.

[babywag]

I learned to weld using oxy/acetylene...

Miller makes a REALLY nice MIG but I can't justify the $$$ for the one I want.

I'm partial to Hobart migs for body work.

I've owned a couple other small mig welders, and the hobart has been the best bang for the buck so far.

[matt thompson]

I had just gone through a cheap hf chinese flux pos, and decided to never waste money on a cheap welder ever again!:banghead: And I was lookin at all the 110v 130amp welders like lincoln, hobart, and miller, I decided though, I'm done with 110 welders and convinced myself to get an 180 miller mig. It's nice to not be as limited on thickness as with 110 powered welders. seriously best $700 ever spent. oh and try a 25/75 C02/Argon mix it kicks a**.:thumbsup:

oh, and babywag, I took a welding class at our community college when I was in highschool, we never learned oxy acet welding, but i always wanted to... I've always wondered why people dont bring porta torches when offroading, wouldn't it be great to be able to cut and weld anything without the cost of a $1000+ underhood welder? The only reason I could come up with is that if your rig caught on fire you'd have a big bomb on your hands.

[401-J10]

I have one of those AC-225 stick welders and i love the thing! True, it isn't good for body work but when it comes to heavier metal i'd trust it with my life. Besides, once you learn how to stick weld it is so much more fun than mig welding. The only thing i didn't like was having to install the 230V plug for it.

Lincoln has a carbon torch for the 225 that makes it more versatile.

[YellowJeep]

I have the el-cheapo Harbor Freight 110 welder. I bought it on sale for $200 and bought the tank to convert it from flux-core. For $200 it is pretty darned decent. Not as nice as my buddies miller or anything, but it you are cheap (like me) you might consider it.

Regardless of what MIG you buy, I recommend you spring the extra $$ and get rid of the flux core wire. I never got it to flow well when running a bead regardless of how thick the metal was.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=6271

[shimniok]

Mine's a 110V 90A Century MIG with cart with everything but the tank itself that I got at some hardware store (Lowe's or Home Depot or something). Supposedly it'll weld up to 1/4" (multiple pass tho). It was a stretch to spend the ~ $400 so I'm happy with it tho still trying to learn. When it comes time to do bumpers etc I will think about springing for a stick welder, as I doubt I can afford even a used high end MIG. IIWY I'd keep the stick for welding the big stuff and think about a MIG for bodywork as my reading echos the comments here.

Michael

[jpcoutts]

I'm trying to come up with a convincing story to tell the wife about why the welder she bought me isn't everything I need! Don't you just hate it when your really sweet wife does something that you wish you could tweak just a little bit! I'm still waiting to see what everybody thinks about the Lincoln 120v mentioned in my earlier post.

[shimniok]

There are times when it's better to be grateful and keep the pie hole closed. :D

Michael

[PhilG]

just keep it and add it to the tools . .I am sure it would have its place . .add a MIG later.

[Gadzooks2]

I would get the best welder you can afford, you will have it a long time and use it on projects you never thought of.

Also, If your'e not great welder, you better be a good grinder!!:rolleyes:

[Kaiser]

Dont know much about GMAW (MIG), but do know a bit about GTAW (TIG) and SMAW (Stick) welding. Finally stepped up the arsenal to the Miller DyNasty 200DX, and a Miller Spectrum 375 Xtreme (plasma):thumbsup: .
If its strictly auto work you want to be doing then yes GMAW is where you want to invest your $. Fortunately any good one will also have a SMAW capability as well.
Miller makes the best (no biases with that statement at all, honest), and has the most incredible customer service out there. The service you WISH you could get every day 365.
Just realize that there are limitations to each process. Ive heard some good things about the el' cheapo Clarke MIG boxes off of ebay, and the Harbor Freight MIG is okay. Just make sure you get enough Amps (150+).
Another thing to consider is whether you have 110 or 220 capability. Dont want to buy a 220 unit if you only have 110!:banghead:

[irbob]

It sounds like you didn't drop enough hints to your loved one on what type of welder you would like. Hints are great. It's even better when they give you the money and say, "go buy a welder". It's OK to trade it for a different welder. She is an understanding person, I can tell because she lets you have a FSJ. My wife knows not to buy me anything without consulting me about the purchase first.

It looks like your getting a lot of really great advise. The only thing I can add is the setup I currently have for bonding two pieces of molten steel together. Gets me fired up just thinking about it.

I have a Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 (http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=2494)and hardly use it, mostly because the go switch is broke. I use the bajevees outta my Millermatic 175 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Miller-Millermatic-175-with-Runner-Gear-MIL-907049_W0QQitemZ300086975257QQcategoryZ113743QQssP ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), (The new 180 (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_180/)model starts at $958, WOW) 220v w/gas, up to 1/4". I have a full size oxy/acetylene setup and a bunch of grinders. You tend to use less grinder wheels with the more experience you get.

Comparison Chart (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_175.html)

I put an electric dryer plug on the end of a 90 foot extension cord so my MIG will reach anywhere around the property I need it to go. After using gas with my MIG I wouldn't even consider getting one without a built-in gas hookup. The welds are 95% cleaner, which means less cleanup and prettier welds.

[Tad]

The local Lowe's has this one: http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=38790 $457 It is a Pro-Mig 140, plugs in to 120v and seems to be a complete set up except for the gas.

The info on the lincoln site looks like this one would fit my needs. It is a little confusing when you look at what comes with the unit and what will be an extra expense.
Jim,
Sorry, just got back to this thread.
That's Lincoln's hi-end 110V unit and should serve you well.
You will need the adapter coupling to run CO2 instead of Argon for that regulator (different tank fitting and CO2 is way cheaper that Argon) they probably do not sell the adapter at Lowes, it's about $18 at a welding supply store (you'll be going there for wire anyway).
Our SP-135's are going on 4-5 years of daily use and we have only ever broken one ($12) internal part.

[Bama Burden]

If you didn't mind getting a reconditioned unit, Tool King has good prices on Hobart machines. You can a little more welder for basically the same price as the lowes/homedepot stuff.
http://www.toolking.com/productinfo.aspx?cid=323&productid=10929

I also say keep the buzz box. They're nice to have around and a buzz box that only has an AC side will make you appreciate the mig even more.

[Kaiser]

Oh, and if youre looking for deals...
B&R off of Ebay is pretty good, but its Cyberweld that usually does them in. Lots of people who have had great experiences with the two.

[jpcoutts]

Tad, I'm glad to hear that the Lowes item is not the low end of the market. I'll probably be looking in that direction because that's where the stick welder came from. Thanks for the tip on the gas fitting. In response to the posts about learning to weld with the stick welder, just how steep is the learning curve? Keep in mind I'm pretty handy with tools etc. but have absolutely no welding experience. I see a lot of grinding wheels in my future! As for the pie hole...like I said she is very tolerant, and not bad looking I might add!

[Kaiser]

Get yourself a 5 lb box of both 6013 and 7018. Get a bunch of 0.25" square plates (hit your local scrapyard for about 20-30lbs of "coupons") and practice, practice, practice. A week and 10 lbs will get you some confidence.
Take some time to perouse, and take each step deliberately...
http://www.weldingweb.com/
http://www.millerwelds.com/education/library.html
A grinder, som acetone (for cleaning), SMAW gloves, a chipping hammer/wire brush, and a good auto darkening hood will get you going faster (really requirements).:cool:
I would not buy this stuff from HD. Find yourself an Airgas near you. Will give you a good local connection/relationship that will serve you for years. 7018 needs to be taken care of too BTW, but you can look it up on weldingweb for more beta!;)

[Mikel]

Well, aren't women allowed to exchange that piece of jewelry or purse you bought them? Take the welder back and get a MIG... She'll never notice it :thumbsup:

[jpcoutts]

I've done some more looking and the Lincoln Pro Mig 140 has infinitely variable wire feed rates from 50 to 300 inches/min, but has only 4 pre-set voltage settings. How much of a limitation is that. I looked at other units that have infinitely variable voltage that seems to be a more flexible setup. Am I expecting too much from this type of unit?

[irbob]

I guess the important question for us would be how much cash you are willing to spend. Figure that out and buy the best unit you can with that amount. It boils down to funds at this point.

Did you look at the comparison chart I posted earlier?

[vacca rabite]

I've done some more looking and the Lincoln Pro Mig 140 has infinitely variable wire feed rates from 50 to 300 inches/min, but has only 4 pre-set voltage settings. How much of a limitation is that. I looked at other units that have infinitely variable voltage that seems to be a more flexible setup. Am I expecting too much from this type of unit?

That is the exact welder that I have, and I love it. The same thing from Home Deopt is the Lincoln 1400HD (or HD1400 - I don't recall).

Anyway, it is a fantastic little welder, and they are supposed to last forever.

I've gone through a couple spools of wire on mine, and it just keeps on going. It is a great welder for sheet metal. You have to use flux core wire for doing thicker metal (1/4 inch) but that should not be a problem. I don't know that there is anyhting on these rigs that has a wall thickness of more then 1/4 inch.

Zach

[cincyjeeprs]

I'll second the Miller DVI, if you can scrape up the bucks. My son expressed some interest in welding so we got him a welding class at the community tech school for a Christmas present a couple years ago. He took to it real well, so we got him the DVI for his HS graduation present. He had it for 2 days, came home, told me he had to get some aluminum to practice on because he had a job interview THE NEXT DAY. Long story short, he bluffed his way into the job and spent the last year and a half making aluminum fire truck cabs. Just changed jobs and is now doing Stainless Steel tig work. Now he has a career. Best present we could have gotten him.

Oh yeah, the DVI; 110/220 is REAL handy. 110 for the light stuff, 220 for the heavy. Made a 100' x 10 ga. extension cord to drag around to all of the fleet.:fsj:

[jpcoutts]

Thanks guys! Irbob, the chart is where my question about voltage controls came in, and my funds are probably going to be no more than a self imposed limit of about $500. I have no doubt that I would like the Miller. My practical side says that's too much since it's for my hobby, not my daily work.

All of you that have chimed in on this thread are really great and that is what makes this board what it is.

Thanks.

P.S. My wife has shown her beauty once again by telling me it's OK if I trade the stick unit in on the mig.

[jpcoutts]

I have one last question to resolve. It's about the voltage control. The Lincoln 120v units are available with pre-set voltage "taps" or with continuously variable voltage controls, hence the model distinction 140t or 140c. Will the "c" model be easier for a novice like me to learn to use and be more versatile in the long run or will it not make that much difference for the extra $100 or so? Vacca Rabite, you don't seem to think so, what about the rest of you guys?

P.S. I read on a welding board that Miller and Hobart machines are the same with different labels....True? The Hobarts are in my price range.

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

I DON'T LIKE THE LINCOLN 110s,BECAUSE THEY CANT DRIVE STAINLESS....I LIKE THE KOOL PLASTIC CLAMP HOLD/DOWN LINCOLN HAS :mad: ........MY AIRCO MAY BEEEE OLD...BUT THAT SUCKER HAS NO PLASTIC PARTS AND WILL DRIVE STAINLESS WIRE, ALL DAY LONG....OLD IS GOOD :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Tad]

The Lincoln 120v units are available with pre-set voltage "taps" or with continuously variable voltage controls, hence the model distinction 140t or 140c. Will the "c" model be easier for a novice like me to learn to use and be more versatile in the long run or will it not make that much difference for the extra $100 or so?
Not much difference to speak of. I go back and forth between both types throughout the day.

P.S. I read on a welding board that Miller and Hobart machines are the same with different labels....True?
To the best of my knowledge the machines are made by the same facility with the same parts.

I DON'T LIKE THE LINCOLN 110s,BECAUSE THEY CANT DRIVE STAINLESS
With their SS drive kit they do better, but yes, it's still a sucky way to do it.

I LIKE THE KOOL PLASTIC CLAMP HOLD/DOWN LINCOLN HAS
Me too, but that's the only piece we have ever broken.

[Heep80]

man, that welding web looks like a good site. whats a ball park number for a mig for body work/bumpers/cage? and all the goodies to go with? :rolleyes:

[MrThorn]

Unless you are doing a job with steel thicker then 1/4 inch, go with the Lincoln or Miller 110 V Mig.

For doing body work, you are going to want to get a bottle of sheilding gas, as flux core is much harder to use on thin sheet metal.

Everything on this car, from the sheet metal body, to the rotisserie that I made to restore it on, were welded together with a Lincoln 140 (110V) welder.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/97/253639032_0bcca5acf1.jpg

You are going to blow holes all over the place with a stick welder, though they are great for thicker metal jobs.
Zach
Don't waste your cash on Lincoln or Miller, Hobart is the only one that still uses copper coils. I'm also a 15 yr. cert. welder from L.A. to Colo.

[jpcoutts]

I was all set to buy the Lincoln 140t at Lowe's for $447. Just take the stick machine back and come up with an extra $150. When i got there today the price on the welder had gone up almost $100 in the last few days. It was $457, now $547. I think I'll just take my cash and go to the farm supply and buy the Hobart machine with very similar specs for $449.