My Monstro failed smog.....

[jessevargas]

Well my 89 Wag failed smog here in CA and I do not qualify for the Consumer Assistance Program. So I'll have to do it all on my dime. Maybe someone who is familiar with the readings would be able to tell me what I need to change out to get it legal. I've already put in a new air pump, left side air check valve (completely rotted off), made sure all the vents and vacuum hoses are hooked up. Put in a new PCV valve and had it tuned up a month and a half ago. I'm going to put in a new EGR Valve and Catalytic Converter next. Is there something else I'm missing? :banghead:
The readings were as follows:

HC(PPM)
15 MPH - 115 MAX / MEASURED 181
25 MPH - 95 MAX / MEASURED 182

CO(%)
15 MPH - .63 MAX / MEASURED 2.72
25 MPH - .82 MAX / MEASURED 3.35

NO(PPM)
15 MPH - 986 MAX / MEASURED 1378
25 MPH - 846 MAX / MEASURED 1124

Thanks in advance for any help! :thumbsup:

[SBJeep]

Check the power valve on the carb, a very common culprit. The easiest way is to pull the vacuum line and see if gas dribbles out - it shouldn't. If that's bad, it probably destroyed the cat as well if it was that way for long. An exhaust shop can check it with an infrared temp tool. If you're replacing the EGR, have you tested it to make sure it's not working?

[67Wagoneer]

Oh man....my '84 failed smog when I lived in the Bay Area, and I tell you what-those readings look awfully familiar.

I replaced the EGR, rebuilt the carb, did a complete tuneup, replaced all the vacuum/vent lines...still wouldn't pass. Instead of replacing the cat, I stored it at my folks' house out of the area.



;)

[jessevargas]

Check the power valve on the carb, a very common culprit. The easiest way is to pull the vacuum line and see if gas dribbles out - it shouldn't. If that's bad, it probably destroyed the cat as well if it was that way for long. An exhaust shop can check it with an infrared temp tool. If you're replacing the EGR, have you tested it to make sure it's not working?

Thanks for the info, I will check this weekend!

[jessevargas]

Oh man....my '84 failed smog when I lived in the Bay Area, and I tell you what-those readings look awfully familiar.

I replaced the EGR, rebuilt the carb, did a complete tuneup, replaced all the vacuum/vent lines...still wouldn't pass. Instead of replacing the cat, I stored it at my folks' house out of the area.



;)

bummer :mad:

[YellowJeep]

I've got some experience with passing smog tests but no experience with FSJ stuff. I can tell you this:

NO is caused by high cylinder temps. The only thing that get's rid of it is the EGR and the cat. Test the EGR with the vaccum pump and the car off. The EGR should hold vaccum...if it doesn't it's hosed. Start the car and test again. Should bog and nearly die. When/if you replace it, make sure to clean the carbon out of the manifold.

HC is pretty much unburned fuel. So, you could be running rich.

Also, test the CAT(s)It should be about 100 degrees hotter (or more) after the cat than before it. If you need to buy a cat, remember to drive around for 100 miles or so to burn the manufacturing oil out of the new cat.

Assuming FSJs use a 3 way cat, everything should clean up quite drasticaly with a new cat. A new cat can really cover up some serious problems so if worst comes to worse, try that.

Good luck!

[andy d]

IIRC, the cats are only 2 element. The EGR is s'posed to deal with the NOx. Sounds like A carb rebuild, fixing smog equiptment and a cat will fix it. I spent 2 days swapping engines and 6 months getting the new 88 to pass smog. It does now but it failed 6 times.

[JEFFs67Wagoneer]

do you have the o2 and co2 readings??

[jessevargas]

I've got some experience with passing smog tests but no experience with FSJ stuff. I can tell you this:

NO is caused by high cylinder temps. The only thing that get's rid of it is the EGR and the cat. Test the EGR with the vaccum pump and the car off. The EGR should hold vaccum...if it doesn't it's hosed. Start the car and test again. Should bog and nearly die. When/if you replace it, make sure to clean the carbon out of the manifold.

HC is pretty much unburned fuel. So, you could be running rich.

Also, test the CAT(s)It should be about 100 degrees hotter (or more) after the cat than before it. If you need to buy a cat, remember to drive around for 100 miles or so to burn the manufacturing oil out of the new cat.

Assuming FSJs use a 3 way cat, everything should clean up quite drasticaly with a new cat. A new cat can really cover up some serious problems so if worst comes to worse, try that.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info!
I have a guy in East LA that will put in a new cat for under a hundred bucks. He owes a guy who I work with a favor.
I think I'll just change the EGR Valve out because the PO couln't give any info on the smog stuff other than it passed two years ago (I think he paid someone off to get it passed). The air pump was frozen when I went put a belt back on.

[jessevargas]

IIRC, the cats are only 2 element. The EGR is s'posed to deal with the NOx. Sounds like A carb rebuild, fixing smog equiptment and a cat will fix it. I spent 2 days swapping engines and 6 months getting the new 88 to pass smog. It does now but it failed 6 times.

Thanks for the info! :thumbsup:
The PO told me that the carb is recently rebuilt and there is a sticker on it stting that it's rebuilt. So I will do that as the last resort.

[jessevargas]

do you have the o2 and co2 readings??
I didn't drive the wag to work today but I'll post it tomorrow am.
I would appreciate any advice. :thumbsup:
Thanks!

[YellowJeep]

That is a great price for a new cat, but check it with the infared heat gun before you spend the $$. And, make sure you drive 100 miles or more before testing again after you install the cat or you WILL fail again!

Let us know what happens!

[jessevargas]

That is a great price for a new cat, but check it with the infared heat gun before you spend the $$. And, make sure you drive 100 miles or more before testing again after you install the cat or you WILL fail again!

Let us know what happens!

:) Will Do!

[JEFFs67Wagoneer]

Along with the o2 and co2 readings can you tell me if you were flagged for a "Test Only" station?
I have friends who test and know quite a bit about the smog testing procedures.

[redwings06]

You can try running methonal instead of pump gas when you go to do emmisions. Your Jeep will run and the methonal does not give off hardly any emissons. Just be sure to run the methonal completely out of the tank and fill with fresh gas and run a little to get it out of the lines. Otherwise it will eat through the lines. It works like a charm, blown power valve or whatever. I use it in race engines out here in NM, you should be able to pick some up at a racing or engine shop for around $6 a gallon, just get a couple gallons.

[Louiseven]

My wagon recently passed CA. smog. I had to go to a test only station and this guy was white glove thorough and I passed. I am by no means an expert but after doing a smog search on the CA DMV web page I could see how two of the PO's failled numerous times. Here is my list of repairs:

I did a full tune up all of the usual stuff, plugs,oil and filter change,air and gas filter. Inspected and changed when necessary vacuum hoses and PCV valve.
New gas cap,new smog pump,new check A/P valves, new catalytic converter and lastly a carb rebuild.
I had a shop do the carb rebuild, they claim to have a special technique for the carb adjustment to make sure it will pass smog. All I can say is I passed smog with stellar numbers. Wagon ran like crap. After passing took it back to the shop and they dialed the carb back in to as close to good as they could get it. Big Mary has passed smog, and has sticker on the plate. Nice!!!
I'd hate to recommend the carb shop to you because Although I passed smog my carb is not as good as it should be. But they are located in LA on the east side. PM me if want to give them a shot.

[patruckboss]

had the same problem, finally got it to pass with carb rebuild, but during the rebuild i noticed what i believe is the major problem with the jeeps not passing emissions. when you set the idle to where it should be the idle circuit and transfer slots are exposed. cars with hot cams sometimes have this problem so the carb pulls fuel from the idle and transfer slots which makes it real rich. the trick with a 4 barrel is to open the scondaries to give it a little air and turn the idle down to make it adjustable. since i have a 2 barrel what i did was bend the throttle blades just slightly which allowed me to turn the idle down thus using only the idle circuit, dont have the slips but it passed, plugs are cleaner, sounds better. if i did it again i might drill a hole in each throttle blade so i can get it more precise but it seems to do fine the way it is.

[jessevargas]

Along with the o2 and co2 readings can you tell me if you were flagged for a "Test Only" station?
I have friends who test and know quite a bit about the smog testing procedures.

CO2
15MPH: 13.1
25MPH: 12.7
O2
15MPH: .2
25MPH: .2

TEST ONLY

tHANKS!

[jessevargas]

had the same problem, finally got it to pass with carb rebuild, but during the rebuild i noticed what i believe is the major problem with the jeeps not passing emissions. when you set the idle to where it should be the idle circuit and transfer slots are exposed. cars with hot cams sometimes have this problem so the carb pulls fuel from the idle and transfer slots which makes it real rich. the trick with a 4 barrel is to open the scondaries to give it a little air and turn the idle down to make it adjustable. since i have a 2 barrel what i did was bend the throttle blades just slightly which allowed me to turn the idle down thus using only the idle circuit, dont have the slips but it passed, plugs are cleaner, sounds better. if i did it again i might drill a hole in each throttle blade so i can get it more precise but it seems to do fine the way it is.

Thanks for the info!

[JEFFs67Wagoneer]

Here's some info I got.

" check the air filter? On a quick look of the numbers the o2 is low and so is the CO2. It's also running rich. Another issue you are going to have is the NOx. Right now it's high and the chamber is being cooled by the rich mixture. Once the mixture is under control the NOx will go up.

I would check the state of tune, wires cap etc. The HC isn't silly so I don't expect much. Be sure to check the timing it's very important here. 89 for Jeep was still carb right? I'm not sure if it was computer controlled or not, if so you will need to determine if it's actually in control. My guess is you have some issues with the carb of fuel control. The low CO2 numbers could be due to lack of O2, or it could be a tired cat, find the fuel delivery issue and then retest before you spend the coin on the cat."

[babywag]

For what it's worth...
Performed a full tune up before my test...
plugs/wires/cap/rotor/air filter/fuel filter/oil change

06/21/2005 FAIL
15MPH (CO2% 12.67) (%O2 2.54) (HC 36) (CO% .06) (NO 1469)
25MPH (CO2% 12.51) (%O2 2.82) (HC 22) (CO% .05) (NO 1261)

06/25/2005 PASS after replacing EGR valve
15MPH (CO2% 12.73) (%O2 2.56) (HC 40) (CO% .06) (NO 138)
25MPH (CO2% 12.73) (%O2 2.57) (HC 22) (CO% .03) (NO 145)

I have no idea what it would have been before the tune-up, but just the EGR made a HUGE difference on mine.

[jessevargas]

Check the power valve on the carb, a very common culprit. The easiest way is to pull the vacuum line and see if gas dribbles out - it shouldn't. If that's bad, it probably destroyed the cat as well if it was that way for long. An exhaust shop can check it with an infrared temp tool. If you're replacing the EGR, have you tested it to make sure it's not working?

Well the cat was toast. I had it changed this Sunday and did the muffler too. I changed out the thermostat and ended up breaking the thermal vacuum switch. I couldn't find it locally so I'm waiting for it to be delivered from Napa. The Muffler guy told me that more than likely the carb screwed up the cat. It was really clogged. I'm surprised that the engine wasn't getting hotter that usual. I have the 2150. Where exactly is the power valve? The PO told me it was rebuilt and looks decent but I want to check like you suggested.
Once I install the tvs i'm going to load the gas with some additives (44) and go have it tested again since the retest is free.
Thanks for the help, everyone!:thumbsup: