Student Roof Racks Revisited

[Tad]

I took out most of the numbers, it makes the post to long. Will send them to anyone who wants them.

With the help of the folowing members -
miked, tadsal, typeO, John V, John, Langdon, bentpushrod, JB, typeO, Freezer, billyrb, Ridgbak, LostWolf, typeO, wagdriver, Tiger Shark, dws and jettfuel. The data was finally compiled, converted to decimals and evaluated (mean, median & mode) and the reconverted back to fractional amounts where posible.

Now we can move foward on developing roof racks.

Member numbers with rigs older than 1976 (mine too) were deleted, the numbers are too eratic and not enough to justify (they throw the math way off). If you have an older rig, your're just going to have to relocate and patch some holes like me.

The Mean (average) is not as reliable as the Median (the middle point) or the Mode (most frequently occuring number). You can notice the Median & Mode corespond exactly.

Length
Mean (would only convet back into 1/128" increments - not very useful)
0...3.5083333333333333...28.366666666666667...31.3 5 56.254166666666667...59.758333333333333
Median
0...3 1/2...28 3/8 ...31 3/8 ...56 1/4 ...59 3/4
Mode
0...3 1/2...28 3/8...31 3/8...56 1/4...59 3/4

Width
Mean (once again not very useful)
46.279605263157895...............46.27960526315789 5
Median
46 5/16......................46.3125
Mode
46 5/16......................46.3125

We expect to have the first prototype done by late April/early May, work the bugs out with some local/So AZ members and figure out shipping arrangments (that's yours Ryan) during the summer.

We hope to be ready to produce/ship by mid to late August.

I hope all this text & data doesn't get to overwhelming. In a nutshell this is the size.

Length - Center to Center screw placement =
0...3 1/2...28 3/8...31 3/8...56 1/4...59 3/4

Width - Center to Center screw placement =
46 5/16

[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: tadsal ]</p>

[Ridgbak]

--Wow, 'nothin wakes me up like a good series of 15-place decimal figures!!!
--Just one thing T, I think that second Mean figure of 28.36666666666667 should be 28.366666666667(3~)
-- :D :D :D

[Tad]

Ridgbak, I'm hoping you'll join us this summer and be brave enought to take your rack off for a trial fit?

Yeah, that average thing drove me crazy for about an hour this morning till I decided it was worthless.

;)

[Ridgbak]

--You bet I'll assist ya'll this summer.
--Hmm...summer? Doesn't that start next wednesday when the temp reaches 90 degrees, and stays at least that high? LOL
--The only thing I have planned is the Ouray Field Exercises.
--You may do whatever you like to my beast, as long as it includes a 401 R&R and a lift. :D

[Tad]

Ridgbak, 401 r&r, sure, course there is that lesson I learned back in the 70's from my first boss, "if it's less than 1/16", get Tad out of there".
Summer is only outside at the shop, inside is 6000 sqft of 68 degree AC.

[billyrb]

Tad, sounds GREAT! I can't thank you enough for putting all this together, in addition to compiling all the measurements and getting averages. I'm not sure if everyone on the list yet realizes what some of us are creating yet (not just the rack, but rather a group that creates together, learns together, and helps others, including people we have never met). We are such a diverse, multi-ethnic, multi-talented group of individuals.......when we realize the opportunities of working WITH one another, the possibilities are ENDLESS. We can accomplish so much more by discussing our ideas, dreams and wishes, and grouping them together with the appropriate people to bring them to fruition! Ok, I know, but I really feel that we (as a list) can do so much more by pooling our resources, talent and knowledge, as we have thus far on the roof rack design.

Just my $.04: Tad, you are one heck of person, and I look forward to meeting you in person one day, my friend.

~ryan

[looch]

Tadsal---just wondering what size of tubing that you will be using? How tall will the racks be?

[Tad]

Ryan, yeah, that is not only very cool, but very important in our times right now. Add in the fact that it's a group of high school students doing the production/learning about manufacturing/find a need and developing a product, blah blah blah. Most corporation claim they support education, might even cough up a little cash now & then, it's not the same as actually giving them a real life experience to work with.

looch, it is 16 gauge, 1" square tube, here's a look at the corners.

Roof Rack Prototype Corner (http://members.cox.net/tadsal/cornerbig.JPG)

Now that the measurments are settled we will start on the mounting pads, backing plates and how far off the roof this needs to be, what do you think? I'm thinking it better clear the roof by at least 2".

[billyrb]

Your suggestions of 2" min. sounds good to me. Have we come up with ideas for the flooring? Are there going to be crossbars? Where are we looking to place them? I have some ideas on paper, just need to scan them and load to my webpage.....

~ryan

[Tad]

Ryan, please anything you can scan send direct to me also, I have a cable modem so downloading is fast.

I still like the 1" crossbars supporting 1/2" sq tube going the length of the rack, removable for cleaning, waxing, removing dead birds and whatnot.

I have this dream/vision/halucination of these being able to hold a small block without buckling.

Still pondering the folding tailgate & haven't looked into the nameplate for the school, thinking about one of those little adhesive aluminium things they stick on all our equipment.

[billyrb]

If ya'll have some sort of press, you could imprint the name/logo of the chapter.....or, you could have the kids cut their logo (as a negative print) into a piece of sheet metal, and weld it to the rack......lots of options. As for scans, I can draft up some stuff in autocad this coming week and shoot it over to you, with dimensions, etc....btw, do you have access to autocad?

~ryan

[irbob]

That is an awesome rack. When you say removable, are you thinking about firmly securing 3 cross members and then having the basket clamps down to the x-members for easy removal? Like wing nuts on 6 corners or something? Just curiouse. Thanks for all your hard work guys.

[irbob]

Buy the way have you thought about adding 12-1/2" x 1/4" x 20", well nuts to your kit? I just bought 12@75 cents each at sutherlands. The auto parts had them but only in metric. I hate metric.

[Tad]

Ryan, don't have AutoCad but my plasma cutter imports ACad files, just don't zip them to send, I'm on a Mac & they get all messed up, if I burn them straight to CD I can get them into work.

irbob, something like that, has to be shipable, thinking 3-4 linear sections that drop over 4
x-members, well nuts are a must (some of us don't have racks at all), I think I could do a pretty decent bulk purchase from Copper State Nut & Bolt up north here, I run a standing PO with them during the year.

[JB]

Im impressed with the progress, much quicker than I anticipated, I have been holding off buying a roof rack or even looking at them for that matter because Im saving my money for a "TaD-RacK" , Conferr just might as well file chapter 7...

[bentpushrod]

Tad, great progress! And you and your students efforts are appreciated. Very much looking forward to getting a rack.

One quick suggestion in regards to the logo. Could it be made so we would have a choice of having/not having the logo? I'd prefer not to have a logo if possible. Just personal preference, that's all. I don't like stickers, names, etc... on my vehicles.

Thanks

[joe]

Tadsal, just curious here since I'm not much into bolting to a tin roof...any plans maybe for a gutter mount option?
Would the finished product be powder coated, painted or come primed? Be nice to personalize it with HiLift mounts, shovel mount tabs, light mounting tabs, tire hold down brakets etc w/o having to destroy a good finish?

[Tad]

JB
Let's not call it a tadrack, sounds like I would be somehow responsible, ConFerr (shhh) we don't have a legal team do we? I don't think they can sue a 17 year old student could they?

bentpushrod
The logo is just a thought, I'm not sure if we even have he rights to put the IFSJA letters on there (don't even know who to ask). They would just be plasma cut letter that members could order optionally and weld/screw on themselves. I don't like logos either, my policy is you have to pay me to advertise for you. There would be a small (3/4" x 1 1/2") ID tag, with a serial number on there in some inconspicuous spot.

-joe
No plans for a gutter mount at this time, what you could do is order one without the mounting legs/feet and adapt your own. These have to be simple enough to be built by different students, in different classes, over different years. They would be offered in, unfinished steel, grey oxide primer and satin black. That way we can keep the cost down and people can get what they want.

[joe]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tadsal:
-joe
No plans for a gutter mount at this time, what you could do is order one without the mounting legs/feet and adapt your own. <hr></blockquote>

That'll work ;)

[Tad]

-joe
Good, I was assuming some members might prefer that setup. I do think that with the backing plates we're designing that tie into the body above the headliner, that the weight will be transfered into the stronger part of the body above the door & rear window.

[billyrb]

Bent, with regard to the logo's, as tad said, it is an option. You'd have to read the original thread I started to see how that came about. I don't believe in lots of advertising either, but this, to me, is a unique situation. Personally, I would like some sort of logo or plate with the name/names of the kids who are making this rack, or the welding chapter's logo on it. But again, it is a personal preference.

One thing which might need to be made clear is that this rack is being built by a non-profit highschool welding class. This isn't being produced by an off-road company for profit. The sale of these items is to give the students a project to work on, cover their material costs, and to give a donation to the welding chapter for the students. Not sure if everyone knew that or not, so I just wanted to mention it.

Tad, for the autocad stuff, email me and we can talk about some ideas, etc.

Keep up the good work, as it is greatly appreciated.

~ryan

[Tad]

Ryan, thanks, we'll cover that cost thing in detail more when the time gets closer but these things are going to be dirt cheap compared to what's out there. I foget the ConnFerr price but it was about the price of my wagon when you got done buying the rack, floor and paid for shipping on both.

When we get back from spring break on April 3 we're gonna kick @#$ on the prototype. I've declined all staff projects to dedicate more time to this (and the eternal sandblasting of my small wagon parts).

One thing that hasn't come up yet is a thin rubber mounting pad that goes between the foot & the roof. Any ideas? Needs to be slighlty bigger than a stock one so we can slot the screw holes about a 1/4 in each direction. Something easy to make a template for and cut.

[billyrb]

what about poly-urethane gaskets?

~ryan

[irbob]

Sounds good tadsal. LOL at the "tad-rack". :D

[Tad]

billyrb
Poly-urethane gaskets sound fine, probably be cutting our own on a paper cutter or something, we'll deal with it when we get there.

irbob
Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[wagdriver]

Tad no thanks needed for my small part. Glad to do it. I have an idea or two for the joints at the corners if you are interested. What you have looks good so far. These things take on a life of their own, as you well know. It will keep you and your students busy for sure, good luck! It will be a good learning experience for the young guys. I'll try to get some sketches together.

[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: wagdriver ]</p>

[Tad]

wagdriver
Send me anything you would like, if it's a PC based file that's not GIF,PIC or JPEG, don't compress or zip it.

[Duckman]

I wan't to help support your class. I want one when they are ready. I would much rather assist, in a small part in teaching some kids than I would load up the checkbook of a large company like conferr. Great work, keep up posted.

[Tad]

We'll start putting together a list as soon as we work out the bugs.