PTO installed-update

[KaiserMan]

I finally got around to installing the PTO I got from one of our members.

According to Ramsey the only FS Jeeps that didn't use the STC-3 transfer case mounted PTO where the 232 and 350 powered rigs with the 4-speed transmission. I don't know about the 232/4-speed trucks, but my 350/4-speed combo sat my transfer case right on top of my cross member, making it impossible to mount the PTO under it with out modifying the x-member.

It wasn't too bad to make it fit. Besides having to notch the cross member to clear the gear housing, I found that I that the PTO wanted to occupy the same space as the back half of the tranny mount. So I had to move the mount about 5/8” forward, and since the tranny dips down in front of the mount I also had to move it down ½”.

I still have to run the shifter up in to the cab, make a hanger bracket for the pillow block bearing and get some shafts/yokes/u-joints before I can run the winch.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010001-17.jpg
Spacer for tranny mount. Since the tranny dips down, I had to cut the spacer to fit around it and still apply pressure on the front of the mount.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010002-4.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010003-2.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010004-1.jpg
Tranny mount in it's new location'


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010006-1.jpg
Scrap I used had a hole I forgot to weld up.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010005-1.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010007.jpg
I forgot to make some room for one of the bolt heads, so it actually touches the cross member. Not that it matters.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/p1010008.jpg
And last a shot of the front out put just above the cross member. The exhaust ran right where is it.

[J10Mike]

Very nicely done Tom. I can't wait to see the winch operating.

[PhilG]

looks good . .you have the front bumper for the winch huh?

[KaiserMan]

looks good . .you have the front bumper for the winch huh?
Yep. A Ramsey unit that uses the stock front bumper.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/90916.jpg

I was just thinking of asking you, can you get me a pic of your bearing hanger? I need to make one up, and don't really know where I'm supposed to bolt it to on the frame.

Very nicely done Tom. I can't wait to see the winch operating.
Thanks. I can't wait to fire this thing up. It's been sitting on my bumper doing nothing for almost 2 years.

[PhilG]

sure . .as long as you can tell me what a "bearing hanger" is :-) I am a software developer man . .c'mon

[KaiserMan]

The bracket the shaft runs through (recognize the pic?). I just need to see how it mounts to the frame.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CRNJG/hg.jpg

[BRUTUS]

That is Awesome!

How easy/hard was the install?
Where are you going to put the lever to engage the PTO inside the cab?
Did you have to shim the gears at all? Or is that something you will only find out when it is engaged?

:thumbsup:

[PhilG]

ok . .gotcha . . a lot of rain here today so it may be tomorrow before I can get you a pic if thats cool

[KaiserMan]

That is Awesome!

How easy/hard was the install?
Where are you going to put the lever to engage the PTO inside the cab?
Did you have to shim the gears at all? Or is that something you will only find out when it is engaged?

:thumbsup:

The actual install was easy. Kinda hard to hold it up with one hand and get the bolts started though. Took me a couple of days to get the crossmember done, but that wasn't bad. Would have gone much faster if I had a plasma cutter.

Not exactly sure where the lever is going to come up. But it will be somewhere on the drivers side of the tranny hump. I also got the original shift lever and knob with it.

I think I'm okay as far as gear clearance. I can smoothly engage and disengage the PTO the way it is now, don't know how it will operate while things are moving. I expect it to be fine.

I just scored a nice long yoke assembly and drive shaft; I'm thinking it's going to go on the winch side if it will clear my steering box. So I'm down to needing 4 (maybe 5) yokes, and 2 u-joints (the one I just got feels nice and tight).

ok . .gotcha . . a lot of rain here today so it may be tomorrow before I can get you a pic if thats cool
Phil. Thanks, I appreciate it.

[BRUTUS]

Just my .02 but would you consider having the lever come up between the door and the drivers seat? I was thinking that would be kinda cool.

[PhilG]

do you want a pic of where the PTO lever is in relation to the stick shift in the cab also?

[KaiserMan]

Just my .02 but would you consider having the lever come up between the door and the drivers seat? I was thinking that would be kinda cool.
That would be kinda neat. Would keep it out of the way. But I would worry it might get snagged by seatbelts or feet or something. Doesn't really take that much to shift it.

Phil, I'll post a pic of the shifter when I get it installed tomorrow.

Also, that long yoke fits perfectly on the PTO. There wouldn't be enough room to clear the yoke ears if I where using a normal one. Also looks like there will be plenty or room for a yoke on the winch. I was worried it might hit the front cross member, as I raised the winch and bumper about 3/4" for better ground clearance.

Speaking of yokes, does anyone know where I can get some to fit 3/4" round shaft for cheap $$? Tractor supply has them for about $20 each, and the u-joints are also about $20 each. I know it's not THAT much, but I'd like to find a better deal then that if I can.

[BRUTUS]

That would be kinda neat. Would keep it out of the way. But I would worry it might get snagged by seatbelts or feet or something. Doesn't really take that much to shift it.

I was thinking like an e-brake type handle like a Honda or Camaro STYLE where the handle hugs the floor and doesn't stick out any further than the front of the seat bracket. That would keep it out of harms way.

I am just thinking it isn't a lever that you want to be front and center because of the "frequency of use" of it. You want access but not so much that it can be engaged accidentally.

I was also thinking that it might be handy to be able to operate it standing next to the truck with the door open. As in it might offer a little more safety if the cable were to break than being in the cab and having the cable come back through the front window.

Are these for sale often? To be honest I knew about PTO winches but had never heard of this particular one for the D20. Anyone out there have one that they would part with? With or without the winch?

Speaking of yokes, does anyone know where I can get some to fit 3/4" round shaft for cheap $$? Tractor supply has them for about $20 each, and the u-joints are also about $20 each. I know it's not THAT much, but I'd like to find a better deal then that if I can.

Now I am not junkyard genius or anything but you might look at CV joints for some front wheel drive car. From what I have seen they are in that neighborhood size-wise.

[KaiserMan]

They come up for sale once in a while. Usually go for between $175-$300, depending on condition. They seem to have taken a bit a a price hike lately.
There was a rally neat rear output only pto for teh Jeep/Scout D20 on the bay a couple of weeks ago.

An e-brake style lever might work, but it would take a bit to rig something like that up. The stock lever actually looks pretty neat. The middle of the truck isn't good for much anyway with the tranny and transfer case levers there allready, one more won't hurt I guess.

It actually wouldn't matter where the shift lever is, all it does is engage/disengage the pto, and you have to push the clutch in to do that so one would be in the truck anyways.

Thanks for the cv joint tip.

[KaiserMan]

Oh, there is a guy on ebay trying to sell nos in the box Ramsey winch set ups for our rigs. Should include the PTO, yokes/shafts/u-joints, hanger with bearing, bumper, winch and fairlead. He wants $1000 for them. They are listed every once and a while. Really not a bad deal.

Used Ramsey 8-12Klb winches go for $100-$300 all day long.

[Elliott]

Nice, clean installation there Thomas!

Check out these links:

http://www.jeepresourcecenter.com/j2000truck/pto/ (http://www.jeepresourcecenter.com/j2000truck/pto/)

http://www.jeepresourcecenter.com/j2000truck/pto/measurements.jpg

Pillow block:

http://www.jeepresourcecenter.com/j2000truck/pto/100_0377.jpg

[KaiserMan]

Nice, clean installation there Thomas!

Thanks Elliott. I actually have all those pics saved on my computer. Those are pics of PhilG's 71 that I had asked him to take. It was really nice to see how the front shaft cleared the steering box.

[Elliott]

lol, you prolly sent those to me.:D

[KaiserMan]

I guess I missed one when I was saving them! Looked trough the pics again (using your link) and I found this pic of the pillow block.

http://www.jeepresourcecenter.com/j2000truck/pto/100_0381.jpg

Sweet.

Phil, this is the pic I was needing, so you don't have to go through the trouble of crawling around under your truck (again). Thanks!

[Elliott]

Sorry, I shoulda looked closer... didn't notice that one either.:thumbsup:

[PhilG]

glad the pics helped . .one day will get jeepresourcecenter.com going . .just had other projects. Lemme know if I can do anything to help.

[shackwrrr]

howabout PTO implement shafts?

[KaiserMan]

The local Tractor Supply has a bunch of implement shafts in stock, but non that are round. I think I can get some pre grooved drive shaft stock from Napa, but I'm not sure how much $$ they want for it. Easy enough to make though, so I'm not worried about the shafts.

Thanks again Phil.

[KaiserMan]

Okay, shifter pics.

Took me from noon to 30 minutes ago to get this done. Simple things seem to be taking me a long time lately.

The lever coming off the PTO is Ramsey, as is the shift lever coming through the floor. I made the linkage in between. Thank God for a box full of old clutch linkage parts. This PTO is from a CJ or something, it isn't from a FSJ, and thus has the incorrect shift setup. A Ramsey PTO from a FSJ would put the shifter on the passenger’s side of the tranny hump.

Stock (according to the knob) shift pattern is Up=engaged,
down= disengaged. What I ended up with is the same, however one has to move the lever forward before shifting in or out, as the pics show. Also, little chance of me hitting the lever, it's not even close to my leg, or the tranny shift lever when it's in 1st (the closest gear to the pto lever). The crappy red weather seal is temporary until I can find the correct style accordion boot.

Also a pic of the long yoke. I love freebie


http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91186.jpg
Yeah, I know the linkage isn't straight, I'll adjust it some day.
I used a bolt and nyloc nut instead of a pin so I could squeeze the parts together and make it a little harder to shift.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91187.jpg
Sweet yoke. You can see that I would not have been able to clear the yoke ears with a shorter one.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91183.jpg
Down and out

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91184.jpg
Moving forward to shift

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91185.jpg
Up and in

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91188.jpg
Clears my leg great. I need to clean my carpet.

[PhilG]

looks great . .nice carpet too . .and I love the tennis shoe . .my shift lever is on the other side of where you put yours . .but nearly in the same position towards the seat. Since yours is scooted over the hump . .did coming from that way help get more clearance between the PTO shaft and the steering box? I know mine is very close . .it clears and doesnt knock, but it is very close. Awesome.

[KaiserMan]

My clearance will be the same as yours. The pto is in the same spot (it's the same unit as the one under your truck), just has a different shifter bolted to it.

Those used to be my good sneakers, but I've pretty much killed them by working in them.

[BRUTUS]

Oh, there is a guy on ebay trying to sell nos in the box Ramsey winch set ups for our rigs. Should include the PTO, yokes/shafts/u-joints, hanger with bearing, bumper, winch and fairlead. He wants $1000 for them. They are listed every once and a while. Really not a bad deal.


Can you post a link.... This is all I can find.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8000-lb-Heavy-Duty-Ramsey-Winch_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43984QQihZ014QQit emZ330068460802QQrdZ1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ramsey-8000lb-Winch_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33653QQihZ014QQit emZ330071282834QQrdZ1

Thanks

[KaiserMan]

Can you post a link.... This is all I can find.

They aren't up right now. The seller has them posted every two months or so. He might have them listed in his e-bay store though (if he has one).

I'll send a PM your way if I see one of the kits.

[KaiserMan]

I found the perfect shift boot tonight. Very close to what Ramsey supplied.
The only difference is that the Ramsey boot would have been wider at the bottom, and this one is the same size all the way to the top.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91192.jpg

Know what it's from?

It's from the back of an old Bendix master cylinder. The original one from my Jeep to be exact. Pulled the push rod from the m/c, yanked this baby off and slid it into place on my PTO lever.

Edit: I was just looking at some pics online, and a VW bug M/C boot looks identical to the Ramsey boot. I'll see if I can't pic one up some time.

[bamatj]

these are the kind of threads i like seeing. i love your truck. :thumbsup:

[William 79ge]

No Doubt KaiserMan You should compile some information and make a build-up post of almost everything done to your truck with pics etc. I love it, Keep up the good work!!

[KaiserMan]

Thanks guys. I haven't been able to touch this thing since Friday. I's been raining here. Supposed to let up later this week though. Getting tired of not being able to drive it. Would have been done along time ago if not for the weather.

[KaiserMan]

Little update. I mocked up the driveshafts today. Looks like I'll have penty of clearance except possibly by the pitman arm. I'm going to head back out later and make a bracket for the pillow block bearing then weld on two yokes. After that I should be done.

Take a look.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91530.jpg

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91529.jpg
Plenty of clearance at my crusty exhaust pipe.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91527.jpg
Plenty of clearance at my steering box.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91528.jpg
This might be a problem. I can raise the shaft up if I have to.

[PhilG]

taper the shaft on that section :-)
I still havent converted mine to power steering . . I am anxious if I am going to run into this and what you do. As always, I let you do the work and I mooch the information :-)

[Mikel]

Thomas,
Where did you get that carpet??
Thanks,
Mikel

[KaiserMan]

Thomas,
Where did you get that carpet??
Thanks,
Mikel


$10 Wal-Mart brand 8x10' indoor-outdoor carpeting. It actually fits pretty well. And for $10, it will be cheap to replace when it wears out.

I got the hanger made for the bearing. I'm not in love with it, but it will work. The two pieces of angle you see are welded to another that it bolted to the frame. One bolt. I need to either weld on a tab to catch another bolthole, or I may just go the easy route and weld it on. I still need to do a bit of work on it. And if anyone wants to know what I didn't make the "nice" looking sides of the angle and pillow block facing the front, it's because I wasn't paying attention.:banghead:

Tons of clearance everywhere. I moved it up a bit to clear the pitman arm.


http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91531.jpg

[jepj2000]

I wonder what kind of fun stuff I'm going to run into when I get all my PTO stuff in for my jeep. Everything looks great and keep the info coming because I'll be needing it when I get to do this to mine. Keep up the good work Thom.

Rankin

[KaiserMan]

Thanks. Are you going to end up with that winch setup that one of our members (I forget his name) has for sale?

[jepj2000]

Yeah I'm suppose to when ever he gets around to sending me pics and and getting shipping dates organized. He is really busy right now trying to get his own truck going to meet his deadline. But I sure hope I get it because it comes with everything I am going to need.

Rankin

[KaiserMan]

That's cool. It's one sweet bumper and winch setup. I think you may have to respring your truck though. It looks like a heavy 'ol pig.

[jepj2000]

Yeah no joke! I guess thats 1 more reason to get the Hell Creek kit for my truck. I think the only thing I need are new bumper mounts so I may need your drawing you said you had. It even comes with the shifter and every thing. I can't wait to get that thing on!

Rankin

[JeepsAndGuns]

The axle is not gonna move up far enough to hit it when you hit a bump will it?

[KaiserMan]

No. The driveshaft is actually pretty high above the axle, it just doesn't look like it in the pic. Plus the front doesn't have that much travel. Also, the bearing and mount are actually behind the axle tube, not right over it as it looks in the pic.

[shackwrrr]

action pics !!!!!!!

[JeepsAndGuns]

cool, just let us know how it does!

[KaiserMan]

I had a dream last night that I used my winch to hual a Chevy out of a mud pit. Guess I must really want this thing running.

[jepj2000]

I think thats a pretty good sign that its time to get it going (haha). I bet it worked like a dream too pullin out that Chevy.

Rankin

[KaiserMan]

Actually, not really. I should have said "tried" to winch. There was a large hill, and the top was a complete mud pit. I parked a bit down from the top to avoid sinking in and winched from the slope. Well the Chevy was really stuck and I started pulling myself up hill. Then the dream shifted to something else. I guess he's still stuck there.

[KaiserMan]

Okay. All finshed up. Sort of. I still need to cut two of the set screws down and pick up two new snap rings for one u-joint. One lived up to it's name and snapped off across the garage to parts unknown and one deformed somehow. I had to take two of the yoke/u-joint assemblies apart when I welded the shafts on. Everything clears nice, turn freely and in general looks good. Now I just have to spool my cable on (150' 3/8") and eventually get a new hook. The cable was a Christmas present from my father. He asked for HD cable for an 8Klb winch, and for some reason the company he bought it from put a 2-ton hook on it:rolleyes: Anyone know a good place to get a hook from? I'd like somewhere around a 6 or 8 ton rated hook.

http://fsjworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/TAR/91544.jpg

[jepj2000]

What about tractor supply (or related store) they sell all kinds of warn winch stuff at the local one down here. Other than that I'm sure you can order one off the web somewhere.

Rankin

[KaiserMan]

I'm just going to hit Napa. If they don't have it I'm sure a buddy of mine will. He owns a machine shop and deals with a lot of different u-joints.

[jepj2000]

Yeah I'm sure it won't be a hard to find. Can't waint to see that thing workin.

Rankin

[KaiserMan]

Well, if you have read my other thread about the gears (that post was a brain fart) then you know that I got the winch running. Runs perfect. No noise from the pto, smooth engaugement. Just runs backwards for what I want. Left cut gears with the winch facing forward give me an underwind winch, I need it to wind over the top of the drum, so i need some right cut gears. I had a feeling it would do this. No big deal though, it still works. I just have four speeds out and one hella low in (instead of the other way around). Runs of of reverse which is 7.55:1 and the winch has a reduction of 60:1. So untill I get some RC gears I won't be winching anything fast. I can power out fast in 4th gear though:)

[Elliott]

It could take you a good long while to find those gears you need. Have you thought about a cheaper option, at least until you find the gears? It was pretty common practice to fit winches that had inputs offset from the pto shaft by adding sprockets and chain to the ends of the driveline. You'd need to swap your winch around again however... and make the pto shaft end adjustable to take up chain slack.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Whats wrong with the winch spooling in from the bottom? Thats how both my warns wind. Since you can spool out real quick, just spool it all out and wrap it the other way. Or is there some reason you cant, that I just dont know about?

[KaiserMan]

It could take you a good long while to find those gears you need. Have you thought about a cheaper option, at least until you find the gears? It was pretty common practice to fit winches that had inputs offset from the pto shaft by adding sprockets and chain to the ends of the driveline. You'd need to swap your winch around again however... and make the pto shaft end adjustable to take up chain slack.
According to information I've found (came from Braden, should apply to any winch with L and R cut gears), it's not what side the gear is on, it's the direction the winch is facing and the rotation. Left cut gear facing the front of the truck provides an underwind winch, facing the rear it winds over the top. Right cut geared winches will wind under the drum when facing the rear and over when facing the front.

Here is a link to the chart. Scroll all the way down.
http://www.paccarwinch.com/service/wormidentify.asp

Whats wrong with the winch spooling in from the bottom? Thats how both my warns wind. Since you can spool out real quick, just spool it all out and wrap it the other way. Or is there some reason you cant, that I just dont know about?
The bumper was only made to take an overwind winch. I could make it work, but I would have to cut up the center of the bumper, lower the winch and move the fairlead down, which would leave it hanging very low. It would be a pretty ugly, akward setup.

[Elliott]

Ok, I didn't think that through very well... Now I wonder about the top wind - originally rear mount Ramsey 12,000 winch I have which I'd planned to put up front. In my case I could have a Chelsea pto geared to run opposite of the engine direction to make the winch run the correct direction (if needed) without changing the more expensive Ramsey gears. I wonder if you could do that with the Ramsey pto, change the gears in the pto to reverse direction? Or maybe the Ramsey Ford D20 gears would reverse shaft rotation? Don't know it that's possible, but probably cheaper then changing gears in the winch itself. Whatcha think?

[KaiserMan]

That's not a bad idea. I have no idea how to go about making the pto spin in the opposite direction of the engine,, but a buddy of mine who is a machinist might. Worth looking into.
Don't know about using Bronco D20 parts, I know they used a different pto then Jeep and IH. There are a couple of flea markets coming up next month, I may be able to find an R series winch there. I might just end up putting this winch I have now in the back, mounted behind the bumper.

[mark]

very nice work!thats awsome

[jepj2000]

Dual PTO winches would be sick! I say see what you can find in the fea markets and get the corect winch for the front and run the one you have in the back. That would be so cool!

Rankin