Questions about axle swaps

[tennyohpc]

In late jan i will be a owner of a 85 waggy. so i have started thinking about mods to make this thing the most capable. ive decided i want to go with a Dana 60 front axle and a corp 14 bolt rear. ARB locked all the way around. My question is what year/modle vehicles should i look to for these axles. not quite sure if there is any that would not require changing out knuckles on. i dont mind moving perches and shock mounts but id rather stay away from changing knuckles if i could. and is there any out there that is the width of the waggy. I plan on chopping metal and doing bout a 4-6in lift that way i can clear 36's. im gonna keep the 360 thats in there for the powerhouse and the 727 and get a custom dana 300 made as im not too sure on the whole driver side drop to passenger side drop conversion's. any help would be greatly appericiated as im looking to get the parts i need right the first time.

In closing i wanna say you guys have a great board here and im looking forward to contibuting as much as i can.

[J10Mike]

Keep in mind that the axles you are seeking are definately wider than those Waggy axles.
For the front, a 78 or 79 Ford HP D60 if you stay with the driver side drop transfer case. If going to a pass drop transfer case, a GM D60 from the 70s thru like about 88 will work. Both front axles are SOA and will bolt in. Steering mods will have to be made.
The Ford front D60 is a popular upgrade and they are far and few between. In rusty needing a rebuild condition, you can expect to pay anywhere from $1000 to $1500 for it...depending on location. The GM D60s are more abundant and will sell for $500 to $800...again, depending on location.
On the rear, again, a 70s thru ? SRW 14B will work as well. Perches and shocks mounts will have to be modified.
Both front and rear axles will have 8 lug hubs. So, new wheels and possibly tires will have to be considered.
For my J10, I swapped in J20 axles. Everything bolted right up and nothing needed modification.

[crazydog]

Read these before you buy.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/index.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/index.html

[JeepinPete]

If you are going with the D60/14b, you might as well do a SOA while you are at is, especially since the D60 is set up that way anyhow. Use your stock springs and end up with 6-8" of lift. It will flex better, and ride better. Then with the money saved on the lift kit, spend it on a hi steer setup.

[tennyohpc]

how much wider are the D60's compared to stock D44. i plan on atleast cutting the fender for tire clearance. my biggest concern is turning radius without hitting fenders. as for drivers or passenger drop... is passenger drop more of a pita to do. heard of some issues with clearance. im wanting to go with a Dana300 TC and i would perfer to get one that will bolt up directly. are all of the NP TC the same bolt pattern? if so i might just go with a 205 and change the output shaft of the tranny. i want to make sure i do this right the first time. i also plan on doing SOA because like you guys said the D60's are natively SOA anyhow so im planning on most of the lift if not all coming from that. i appericiate the help guys.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

If I were doing an 80's and up Waggy, I would look for a parts Donor Dodge 1 ton, axles will bolt in with no spring perches to move. They are about 6" wider than the Stock Jeep 44's. You could rob the T-Case and mate it to the Jeep Trans. All the NP paterns are the same bolt patern, however they are not clocked the same, so it would not be a simple matter of just bolting up any 205 to your Jeep's 727. You would be looking at a Dodge for that easy swap. Lots of other details you will need to look into, like Steering, lift for the back to equal out the SOA on the front, Drive Shafts ect. I am sure more input will be along shortly;) Good Luck:thumbsup:

[Merc69]

I would look at the Ford Dana 60 for it's reverse rotation/ high pinion. Many say they are costly but anything that says Dana 60 is high cost. If you want to do your build up right plan on a full rebuild and possibly re-gear any front end you choose, unless it is a costly new axle.

The 14 bolt is a great axle and any single rear wheel from a pickup truck should work. If you find an axle from a Military Truck they come with 4.56 gears and usually a Detroit Locker (no air lines to tear loose or leak like a ARB). Shave the bottom of the axle smooth and install an aftermarket (I used a Blue Torch) differential cover. Make the rear axle housing bullet proof and add a BTF (Blue Torch) axle truss with U-Joint protection. While you are on the rear axle look at converting it to disc brakes. When you do that you will have to decide if you want to go with the costly Cadillac calipers with emergency brake or just Chevy truck calipers without the e-brake.

As for the t-case, the Jeep NP-208 is a great case and can be had for reasonable prices. If your budget is deep look at an Atlas, a 203/205 doubled case or a Klune-V 205 combination. The 300 is a case that was designed for the lighter vehilces. My rig keeping the sheetmetal mostly intact is 12 lbs. short of 6,000.

With any build take your time and plan the build, build your budget and then add 20% to your budget to cover costs that you did not figure.

Have fun and post lots of pics as you progress.

[Merc69]

A couple off other things you need to look at also...

You will need to consider drive shafts, find some that can be midified or spend a lot of money for custom shafts.

Also you will need to modify the transmission crossmember (Jeep NP-208) I don't know about the others but would suspect they will need to be modified.

[tennyohpc]

thanks for the help guys. my biggest concern is strength when it comes to chain driven cases. is the 208 up to the job if so i could probally find one easy , with less out of pocket expense. the driveshafts are going to be square tubing as this thing will never see a road. ive been doing as much research that i can. i still have a month or two before i can even think of getting the vehicle but i wanna be up to date when i do cause its going into mod as soon as i get it. i was loooking into the military version corp 14bolt but they seem to be near impossible to find. ill have to keep my eye out for one.

Merc69- on a side note i see your in J-ville i use to live there till i got out of the military and moved out here to new mexico. i sure do miss it though.

[Tad]

208 is a good case, especially when you factor in it's low range, light weight and availability. Not a great case mind you, I expect to replace mine with a 205 soon, but it has proved itself many times over in many applications.

You do not need the Mil App 14-Bolt (nice to have, hard to find).
Any SWR 14-Bolt will do for a wag/chero application, parts are cheap and readily available.
Open carrier with 4.10's are common (gov-loc is not great but can be welded) Detroit's are a decent price for those rear axles but you need the open carrier.

[tennyohpc]

the only thing i dont like about the 208 is the chain driven. just dont seem as strong as a full gear box to me. and the 205's i cant seem to find much info on mating them up with the 727 tranny. i was figureing that by the time i get the adapter needed and the tc i would be close to what i was looking at. assuming i couldnt get a good deal on a 205 that is. plus when you figure in regearing and a possible rebuild. i think id just rather go with an atlas but atlas i cant find any info on their site about mating to the 727. the TC i was looking at was either http://stak4x4.com/3speed.htm or http://stak4x4.com/d300_transfer_case.htm the first would give me a much lower crawl ratio but even the D300 would offer lower then the 208 or 205. another question i have is it was said the D60 is about 6in wider then stock D44 what would need to happen in order to make this clear the fenders. not sure if you can remove enought material could you or would you have to do away with the fenders all together.I did notice that in your picture on TT FabWorks you have a D44 under the front. I was wondering how this ahs worked for ya. my biggest concern with keeping the D44 is breaking shafts or knuckles due to tire size as i will probally wanna run 38" tires at some point.

Again i wanna say thanks for you guys helping me get my mind straight before i get in too deep to change it.

[Tad]

I do not know much about getting a 205/D300 into your '80s rig, I have to leave that question for the folks that have done that. Not sure, but I thought the D300 and NP208 were about the same low range in stock form, I could be wrong. For my application (TH400) the 208 is more readily available and cheaper, which is how I like things to be.

another question i have is it was said the D60 is about 6in wider then stock D44 what would need to happen in order to make this clear the fenders. not sure if you can remove enought material could you or would you have to do away with the fenders all together.

Yes, about 6" wider than your stock NT D44 but real close to a full width 10-Bolt/D44. I'm running a full width J20 HD44 on H1's, about 34.5" tall.
I have about 2" of spring lift left, 2" body lift and about 1.5" of fender trimmed. I could cut more material from the front but for this tire size it's about right. The rear gets a bit trickier the more you cut, but most of that can be solved with fabwork and creativity.

I did notice that in your picture on TT FabWorks you have a D44 under the front. I was wondering how this ahs worked for ya.
You are looking at RB's old rig I think, on the site mine still had a D27 :eek:
RB changed that 44 out for a front 60 a bit after that page was setup.

I'll probably never run 38's, that's just a bit large for what I need my rig to do. A D60 would be a nice upgrade for me but it's not an option right now, someday.

[Merc69]

I have a Dana 60 up front...

I have a ...yes 3" body lift, spring over with Alcan 2" lift springs and have swapped to wide track fenders and have limited issues.

I plan on selling the wide track fenders and have opened the stock fenders wider than the wide track fenders. I will have to come up with some sort of flair. The one thing I would do is have the folks at Alcan move the spring locating pin about 2" forward and this would have prevented the full stuff rub I get as the back of the fender. Remember I am running 38.5's. Of course I guess I could just install a set of bump stops and prevent any contact.

If you look inside the front fenders there is soooooooooooooo much room that the only way you could rub is to run a tire with not enough lift and have the tires hit the back of the fender on full stuff.

You will encounter more fender cutting for the rear wheel wells...but there is a lot of room there and with the proper application of the Milwaukee hatchet :sawzall: you can stuff a lot of tire under there.

You are going about this build the right way...plan, ask qiestions and then re-plan as needed before you lay one hand on the rig.

Good luck

[Casey]

the only thing i dont like about the 208 is the chain driven. just dont seem as strong as a full gear box to me. and the 205's i cant seem to find much info on mating them up with the 727 tranny. i was figureing that by the time i get the adapter needed and the tc i would be close to what i was looking at. assuming i couldnt get a good deal on a 205 that is. plus when you figure in regearing and a possible rebuild. i think id just rather go with an atlas but atlas i cant find any info on their site about mating to the 727. the TC i was looking at was either http://stak4x4.com/3speed.htm or http://stak4x4.com/d300_transfer_case.htm the first would give me a much lower crawl ratio but even the D300 would offer lower then the 208 or 205.
From just a quick glance at the AA website. The Atlas will bolt up to the 727 and adapter. There are several spline configurations but the one you'll need is listed.
So will the Dana300 and the FSJ 208, both have close to the same low range ratio. Just find a deal on a 60 front, either side drop, and find a suitable t/c. The Atlas would solve any problems there of course.

[tennyohpc]

I really appericiate all the info guys. the more i read the more questions i seem to have. my next question has to do with rotating the knuckles. if i go with the dodge drivers drop or ford drivers drop D60 would i need to rotate my nuckles. also if i go with passenger drop which would alliviate some of the TC finding issues hows the clearance on that side for drive shafts.
again thanks for the help guys!

[Merc69]

I did not need to rotate my knuckles. No bump steer or other related problems. I did go with a High Angle Driveline CV front drive shaft to accomidate the d/l angles.

[tennyohpc]

well i went to the junk yard today and looked at axles i can get any axle for 99 +10$ core. not too shabby. i didnt make it to the GM section but i did check out some fords tons of 10.25 FF axles here. and better news is i found several waggys and a J2000 i think one or two are drivers drop. so its back to the drawing board. Is there and cons with staying drivers drop?