203/205 doubler ingredients

[4x4fEvEr]

im gettin ready to buy all the pieces for my doubler and well i dont know what im lookin at:banghead:

im gonna be runnin an NP435 so i want a 31 spline 203 right? and a married np205 right? both ford products? im only gonna use the front half of the 203 which is called the range box???? and this all goes together with a kit from (insert name of best kit here)

[scotty]

get a 435(or t18) with a 205 attached. id avoid a t18 with a 208 if you want to go the doubler route,as the 208 will have a different stickout length for its input gear,and therefore possibly either a shorter tailsahft on the tranny,or a longer adapter.

i have been told that the ford 203 will have the same stickout for the input as the 205,and the same round NP pattern. im also told it doesnt matter if it comes from an auto or a manual,it will bolt on where the 205 was. this is just what ive been told,ive never laid my own eyes on a ford 203,so i cant really say for sure.

other than that,you have it figured out. youll disassemble and discard the chain section of the 203,and whomever you buy a kit from will either cut down and spline your shaft,or send you a shaft,and take yours as a core. as such,the range box will need disassembled to swap in an appropriately splined output shaft to slide into your ford 205.

the doubler adapter bolts onto the rangebox in place of the chain section,2nd t case bolts to the adapter. rig up the shifters, make some driveshafts and hit the trails :)

as for whose kit to use,i cant remember whose the guys were the most impressed with. imsure desertbeast or blt2krl will chime in on that one.

[Bama Burden]

Northwest Fab was recommended to me because of the clocking ring. Although, I've heard there are shipping problems due to NWF being located in Cananda --- it takes a while to receive it

[blt2krl]

im gettin ready to buy all the pieces for my doubler and well i dont know what im lookin at:banghead:

im gonna be runnin an NP435 so i want a 31 spline 203 right? and a married np205 right? both ford products? im only gonna use the front half of the 203 which is called the range box???? and this all goes together with a kit from (insert name of best kit here)

You will want what ever 203 bolts to your transmission. Not positive the options on this cause I bought a TH400/203 combo. You will need a Married 205 unless your going to go the route like Crazy jeep. I think your setup would be best off with a married setup for better length. I.E shorter setup. You are correct only the gear box of the 203 is used. As far as using only ford products that depends on what fron axle you have. You can use a ford or chevy 203 and then either a ford 205 or chevy 205. The adapter that goes from the 203 to 205 can be setup for either ford or chevy 205. I know I pimp the NWF guys and the reason is noone elses kit on the market is as easy and installer friendly. Not to mention the clockability gives you more options than the rest. I was one of the first to buy their kit. I slapped the whole thing together only to find out the guy who rebuilt my tranny screwed up one of the clutch packs. I tore the whole thing apart agian. I called and talked to kyle, he sent me an entire gasket over night at no charge. Granted it was not an exspenvie deal to begin with but it won me over as a return customer. I have never had a problem with shipping and these guys have always bent over backwards for me. Who ever you decide to go with the doulber setup will put a smile on your face the first time your in double low. :drivin:

[Elliott]

im gettin ready to buy all the pieces for my doubler and well i dont know what im lookin at:banghead:

im gonna be runnin an NP435 so i want a 31 spline 203 right? and a married np205 right? both ford products? im only gonna use the front half of the 203 which is called the range box???? and this all goes together with a kit from (insert name of best kit here)

Ford 203's are hard to come by, you just missed one on e-bay btw...
You don't actually have to use the Ford 203, if you can get the gear (NW Fab... or scrounging) you can redrill the front of an easy to find (and often cheap to free) GM 203. I have a drill template I can loan you when I get it back from another member;)

Your Ford NP435 will adapt to your AMC with a new input bushing for your flywheel, a ford clutch plate and a T176 bell (for the easiest adaptation). I bought a NW Fab adapter with the Ford 31 spline 203 gear as my GM 205 had the long 32 spline input that needed swapping out for a short input and the Ford 31 spline is real common and easy to scrounge up.
My range box is done and I just stuffed the gear in the gear in the 205 yesterday.

[Elliott]

Here's a Ford unit with 5 hrs to go on E-bay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Process-NP-203-Transfer-Case-Ford-Chevrolet-Dodge_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33733QQihZ002QQit emZ120054487882QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[mud_slinga]

I'm probably not lucky enough for some one to have come out with a kit that uses the 208 for a range box yet am I? Looking at some options for the J20 but I was planning on keeping my T18(a??) nice low first gear, I like it :)

[Cecil14]

I'm probably not lucky enough for some one to have come out with a kit that uses the 208 for a range box yet am I? Looking at some options for the J20 but I was planning on keeping my T18(a??) nice low first gear, I like it :)

The NP435 is lower yet...and a bit more versitile box. PTOs on both sides if I recall.


aa

[Elliott]

Cecil is right, the Ford NP435 is 6.68:1. If you have the '80+ T18 that fits the NP208 then you have a 31 spline output and round pattern that should bolt directly to a Ford 203 range box. You should be ready to rock mud_slinga!

[4x4fEvEr]

You will want what ever 203 bolts to your transmission. im guessin for mine i need the ford 31 spline 203 which i have a lead on.

As far as using only ford products that depends on what fron axle you have.

well thats a toss up. i could go either way. i was planning on running a ford front axle, but the 205 for drivers drop is really going to have me cutting out some body material from underneath to squeeze it in plus rerouting my exhaust which i just had done, but i will have a highpinion 60 that way.

if i go with a chevy 205 ill have no issues except ill still be running a low pinion front axle. just a matter of if the HP will make the difference for the extra work.

You can use a ford or chevy 203 and then either a ford 205 or chevy 205. The adapter that goes from the 203 to 205 can be setup for either ford or chevy 205.

thats good news right there.



High pinion 60 with more labor and cost or low pinion 60 that will go in very very easily?

[mud_slinga]

Cecil is right, the Ford NP435 is 6.68:1. If you have the '80+ T18 that fits the NP208 then you have a 31 spline output and round pattern that should bolt directly to a Ford 203 range box. You should be ready to rock mud_slinga!


Thats what I like to hear :thumbsup: thanks for the info, I did not compare the 2 trannies but I knew the 435 Had a super low gear as well but the T-18 is already in the truck :D 203-205 and 5.38s in the axles :eek: (I like low gears lol) although if I can get my hands on some rockwells Id rather run those instead of 60's on the J-truck... okay im done hi-jackin his thread :drivin:

[JeepNOFEAR]

Not sure if this is a good deal or not.

http://bb.tennesseeoffroad.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=011975

[4x4fEvEr]

i dunno . anybody else know if thats reasonable?

[Elliott]

Depends on the set up and if it's triple sticked or not. Some early doublers were ground down 203 tailshafts w/hollow core and the better ones are billet. For all I can tell, this one may be a Toyota doubler 'cause he gives just about no info....

[jeepzilla47]

my vote is for NWF.......very nice kit, easy install, lots of adjustment......plus, they made it easy to use my ford 205 without changing inputs...

[4x4fEvEr]

somebody ask about that kit. i just tried to register a username and everytime they email me my password i cant see it!?

[4x4fEvEr]

ok little confused on my NP435. ive been reading there is a difference in shaft length between a 435 that was bolted up to a 205 or a 208, if true what do i need to do since my NP435 came from in front of a 208. i have the spacer or sleeve or whatever you call it from in between the tranny and t-case from the 208 setup. is that the one to use for the 203 or do i need to use the one from a 205 setup or what?

another question. the np435 will sit closer into the dash since it doesnt require the spacer that went in front of my t-18?

[Elliott]

ok little confused on my NP435. ive been reading there is a difference in shaft length between a 435 that was bolted up to a 205 or a 208, if true what do i need to do since my NP435 came from in front of a 208. i have the spacer or sleeve or whatever you call it from in between the tranny and t-case from the 208 setup. is that the one to use for the 203 or do i need to use the one from a 205 setup or what?

another question. the np435 will sit closer into the dash since it doesnt require the spacer that went in front of my t-18?

I'm not sure where you found the output shafts are different lengths, not to my knowledge (NTMK?) On the SM465, which I can confirm, it used different length adaptors to the case and would suspect if there is a difference with the Ford that it is also in the adaptor length. I think it probably has to do with the variances between the 208/205 inputs and how the tranny tailshaft needs to engage. The 208 input is probably located further foward in the transfer case requiring a shorter adaptor.

What is the measurement of your 208 adaptor to compare with?

The NP435 205 adaptor is 8 5/8" leaving 3/4 of 435 tailshaft stickout (edit, both of mine are the same). I'm not sure if the 208 adaptor is any different... if so I'd bet you want the 205 adaptor as the 203 is more similar to the 205 at the front of the case then the 208.
It will put the tranny closer to the firewall, but the shifter is already bent different to clear a Ford dash. Can't tell you if it's knuckle basher yet, but you can always heat and bend it back a lil if you need to.

Edit, Both the Ford and GM pattern cases locate the input gear in the same location respective to the back of NP435 adaptor I have. The NP435 tailshaft has 2.5"s of spline length and sticks out ~7/8" past the end of the 8 5/8" adaptor. The 31 spline input sticks out of the case 1 1/4" and has internal spline length of 3". The total spline engagement with this set up is ~2 1/8" with the gasket in there.

[4x4fEvEr]

thats good info elliot thanks. going to pick up my 203 today!

[Elliott]

LMK what you measure for you NP435 tailshaft and adaptor.
My tailshaft is ~9 1/2" overall.

[4x4fEvEr]

9.5 seems to be it. got my 203. those things are huge. so 435 to my collar from the 208 setup into my 203 that i just got then get my NWF adaptor kit to bolt on my 205. excellent

[Elliott]

Ah, but you are going to miss all the fun of stripping/rebuilding the range box to redrill the front of the case;)

If you haven't seen it, NW Fab has a manual on the basic process you will need to follow at http://www.northwestfab.com/203-205adaptorinstall.html

[orangecherokee]

this is a good thread and needs a sticky i think. also, if anyone has a 32 spline 203 floating around for cheap let me know. me wanty. :thumbsup:

[elbastardo]

You can get any 203, and buy the 32 spline seperate.

[orangecherokee]

yeah i could but i'm not pressed for it right now. plus it eliminates the hassle of buying more parts.

[Brad W.]

I have some sort of np203 gearbox floating around here, i'll try to dig it out from under the bench and check it out. If its a 32 spline, i'll let you know Nick, I have no use for it at this time. I'll probably go Klune if I decide I need more gear.

[4x4fEvEr]

moving forward on this doubler. what would everybody do for the crossmember to support the 203 and 205? could u reuse the 203 or 205 doubler, drill and cut it to mount to the frame and go on with life or whip out some round or square tubing and fab one up? do you need two crossmembers one for each tcase?

[Elliott]

moving forward on this doubler. what would everybody do for the crossmember to support the 203 and 205? could u reuse the 203 or 205 doubler, drill and cut it to mount to the frame and go on with life or whip out some round or square tubing and fab one up? do you need two crossmembers one for each tcase?

I think there is a good crossmember thread on here to search up in this part of the forum, can't remember if it covered doublers or not. I was gonna try and just fit two OEM crossmembers... but have no idea if that'll work. Maybe you can skip the crossmember under the tranny to 203 and just move it to locate under the adaptor foot between the range box and 205.


Brad, if the adaptor is still bolted to the front of that GM203 and it only has 4 bolt holes for the transmission it will be 27 spline, if there are 6 bolt holes for the tranny it's gonna be the 32 spline.

[orangecherokee]

I have some sort of np203 gearbox floating around here, i'll try to dig it out from under the bench and check it out. If its a 32 spline, i'll let you know Nick, I have no use for it at this time. I'll probably go Klune if I decide I need more gear.

that would be the tits if it was. let me know. :thumbsup:

[oldyellowwagoneer]

On the subject of 205's who has the bearing od and id of the input bearings on a big bearing 205 case and on a small bearing 205 case?
Dennis

[Elliott]

On the subject of 205's who has the bearing od and id of the input bearings on a big bearing 205 case and on a small bearing 205 case?
Dennis

Ford NP203 Input Bearing Dimensions: ****(these are the very same dimensions and part # as the ‘85+ NP 205 input bearing, ref NAPA #BRG210NRJ @ $103.99)


http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Ford203InputGearDimensions2.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Ford203InputGearDimensions2.jpg)

[oldyellowwagoneer]

Thanks Elliott, I guess thats the same as the t400? now how bout the small one? Dennis

[Elliott]

Maybe someone else here has a small bearing or small bearing case they can get a meaurement off of, I only have the large case. Are you just trying to figure how much to have the case bored up to fit a large bearing?

[oldyellowwagoneer]

Maybe someone else here has a small bearing or small bearing case they can get a meaurement off of, I only have the large case. Are you just trying to figure how much to have the case bored up to fit a large bearing?

No, I think I can get a bearing that will let you put a big bearing input shaft (like a T-400 or ford) into a small bearing case thereby eliminating the machine work. Dennis

[4x4fEvEr]

you got all the good info elliot.


ive got everything for my drivetrain but the T176 bellhousing have a hard time on that one. i want to get this setup in my rig.

[Elliott]

I'd look around or post here in the wanted section for a 176 bell, I got ming for ~$45 but if you are in a hurry you can buy one new from www.4wd.com (http://www.4wd.com) for ~$200.

[4x4fEvEr]

I'd look around or post here in the wanted section for a 176 bell, I got ming for ~$45 but if you are in a hurry you can buy one new from www.4wd.com (http://www.4wd.com) for ~$200.


yeah im def not in a 200 dollar hurry, i can wait.

once i get the bellhousing, what clutch do i get? i was reading some stuff from OC and i think scotty about using a clutch meant for a hydraulic slave cylinder with a clutch design for a straight linkage setup being different. mines gonna stay with the linkage so im not real sure what to get. i thought i seen it somewhere people using a clutch out of a mustang.

[Elliott]

If you use stock Jeep clutch components all you need is a Ford disc and an adapted input bushing for the crank available at Advance Adaptors. I can't advise you on hydraulic bits, but if you anticipate a lot of frame flex you might want to go that route. I've done just about as much shifting without using a clutch pedal as I have with one so in the rare case my linkage might bind up I'm not going to worry about it personally... but that's just my feeling about it and it might change if my butt was hanging off a cliff:D

[4x4fEvEr]

ok a ford disc from anything v8 or one from say whatever came in front of the np435. i seen the bushin on novak and advance ill be ordering that next

[Cecil14]

I believe a disk from an early 80s 5.0L mustang with T-5 should have the disk you want. You're looking for an 11" (10.5" if you can't find an 11") disk with a 10 spline 1 1/8 (I think) input.


aa

[orangecherokee]

a chevy disc will work too and is larger than a Ford. I think the Chevy is 11" compared to the 10.5". i could be wrong but I think I'm right. :thumbsup:

as for the hydro i could go into detail about it but it takes forever and i'm slightly annoyed with it even though it works. not beause of the set up but because of all the crap I had to go through.

[Brad W.]

chevy half ton is an 11" disc, yes.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Is the Jeep T18 input not 1 1/8 10 spline? I swear I remember it being that??

[4x4fEvEr]

called advance and it looks like everything including the throwout bearing , bushing, disk, new pressure plate is gonna run me around 330 bucks but thats centerforce stuff. im hoping i can crossreference centerforce numbers and come up with somebody elses disk. who should i go with?

#384180 on the disk
#cf361675 for the AMC pressure plate

[4x4fEvEr]

Is the Jeep T18 input not 1 1/8 10 spline? I swear I remember it being that??


i believe it is and the np435 is 1-1/16

[JeepsAndGuns]

Ok, got ya. I was thinking the ford was also 1 1/8.

[Elliott]

Following directions at: http://medusa.ih8mud.com/NP205/Doubler.html (http://medusa.ih8mud.com/NP205/Doubler.html) I pulled the shift rail (and oil seals which I replaced) and modified my 205 for twin sticking today. It went real smooth just enlarging the notched sections ~7/16". Put back together, it shifted fine and did not allow the front axle to go in a different range then the rear axle... which is all good. I just did the notching with an angle grinder with a cut off wheel and then scotch brighted it smooth.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_ShiftRod-1.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/ShiftRod-1.jpg) http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_ShiftRod-2.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/ShiftRod-2.jpg) http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_ShiftRod-3.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/ShiftRod-3.jpg)

[orangecherokee]

called advance and it looks like everything including the throwout bearing , bushing, disk, new pressure plate is gonna run me around 330 bucks but thats centerforce stuff. im hoping i can crossreference centerforce numbers and come up with somebody elses disk. who should i go with?

#384180 on the disk
#cf361675 for the AMC pressure plate

if you find a good deal let me know please. i want the 15 finger pressure plate not the 3 finger.

[4x4fEvEr]

if you find a good deal let me know please. i want the 15 finger pressure plate not the 3 finger.


i cant seem to crossreference that centerforce number or find a 15 finger right off hand either. this will require deeper investigation

[orangecherokee]

coo. let me know.

[4x4fEvEr]

lets see here: got my bellhousing (t-176) my two tranny (np435) two tcases(203 and 205) now im missing the clutch componets and the doubler. still gotta pull apart the 203 clean it up and open up the 205 to make sure all is well.

looking to purchase the clutch junk once i sell my t18

[McRoth]

I take it there's no easy way to attach this to a Jeep 727 without special adapters?

[Elliott]

I take it there's no easy way to attach this to a Jeep 727 without special adapters?

Haven't looked at the 727 but you can probably drill your 727 bolt pattern into a GM/Dodge 203 range box and find the correct splined input...

[4x4fEvEr]

if the t-18 sale goes well ill have my clutch and related items ready to throw it together. pics to follow

[oldyellowwagoneer]

I take it there's no easy way to attach this to a Jeep 727 without special adapters? Dodge 203's have the correct spline count and may just bolt on using the dodge tailshaft adapter. I have a dodge 203 and just used the dodge tailshaft and adapter in a jeep trans so the adapter is steel and not aluminum. Dennis

[Big-wagon87]

YEh I have a dodge 203 laying around too. took it off my dodge np435 I looked at the 203/205 doubler. my 205 is a dodge with a 435 adapter already on it. It just seemed easier to bolt the 205 up and look into a lomax kit later on. I checked into the clockrings and shafts needed to make a doubler. kinda high. $789 for $200 more I can have a lomax kit. but the 3 stick setup could be sweet. I never cleaned my 203 up to see what it would take to mate the 205 behind it.
Good ideas and sites on this thread Chris

[4x4fEvEr]

cracked open the 203 today to separate the range box from the rest. the shifter linkage was a ***** to get unhooked. the only thing i need off the 203 is the range box and what gears sit inside it that are connected to the splined shaft that goes into the rear output right? that shaft sits inside the 205? i made a mess out of needle bearings pulling it apart. hope i didnt mess up

[Elliott]

They aren't hard to separate, or shouldn't be, just back off/remove the bolts after removing the tail houseing, punch the pin on the shift rail, split the cases and stick a screw driver in there to pop off the shift acutator... if you bent it you don't need it anyway.;)
Keep all the large roller bearings for spares (there are some fine ones you can toss).
Here's NW Fab's guide to what you need and if you don't already have a large retaining ring remover... buy one now: http://www.northwestfab.com/203-205adaptorinstall.html

[4x4fEvEr]

thanks elliot. all those large roller bearings have already been sent to that big scrap heap in the sky. going to read that article now

[Elliott]

Ok... so who's got pics of where the shifters locate in relation to the tranny tunnel cover on a FSJ installation.... ???

[McRoth]

Well, I found a 77 Dodge 203 yesterday for $50! What 205 should I look for to put on my 88 GW drivers side drop? I'm thinking that I'll try to build my own adapter, it really doesn't look that hard. Anyone here built their own?

Thanks!

[Bama Burden]

Well, I found a 77 Dodge 203 yesterday for $50! What 205 should I look for to put on my 88 GW drivers side drop? I'm thinking that I'll try to build my own adapter, it really doesn't look that hard. Anyone here built their own?

Thanks!
You'll be needing a ford 205 for that drivers drop. Shouldn't be too hard to dig one up. It'll have a female input and you can get an intermediate shaft from ORD to use with your homemade adapter. good luck

[McRoth]

Cool, Thanks!

[orangecherokee]

Anybody have exploded views of the 203 and 205?

[Elliott]

Here's the Ford NP205, Thanks Pete:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_NP205-Schematic-ford_205tc-1.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/NP205-Schematic-ford_205tc-1.jpg)

Here's the NP203:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_203_3.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/203_3.jpg) http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_203_4.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/203_4.jpg)


Best 203 schematic:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_NP203diagram.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/NP203diagram.jpg)

[orangecherokee]

thanks Elliot and Pete! Here's what fell out of mine this weekend...
and I need to put it back together. I'm thinking a machine shop might be better suited to deal with my mishap.

[McRoth]

How do you go about setting up the shifters for this? Especially if I twin stick the 205?

[orangecherokee]

There are a bunch of different ways. Right now I've been reading a really good thread on pirate about air shifters. They use pneumatic cylinders and dash switches to engage the cases. Pretty trick.

Then there are cable shifters. You can pick these up for fairly cheap and run the lines whereever you need to. You'll still need to set up shifters but with these it kinda gives you more options.

Finally, there's the old fashioned method. Cut a hole in the floor and run the shifters straight from the case. There a bunch of twin-stick kits on the internet including ebay. I'd just find a design that works and copy the idea and save yourself a few bucks.

I believe Northwest Fab makes a triple stick kit but it costs around $350.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Nick I guess I am not following you, are you meaning the transmission shaft? or the actualy input in the 203 range box? Anyhow I will answer it like this. The input from the 208 will not work in a 203, even though it is a 32 spline input. However a 32 spline output from the transmission will fit any 32 spline T-Case, except for where length of that shaft is wrong, and that in most cases will be specific to T-Case being used. I am guessing you have a 203 from behind a TH350, if so then you will need an input from a 203 that was behind a TH400

Here is a 32 spline 208 and 27 spline 208 comparison

http://www.crazy-jeepman.com/Tech/NP208inputs.JPG

[malodin]

Orange, i work with pneumatic air cylinders all day long, ive been thinking on a way to use them, i.e. q/t e-drive shifter(so you know its engaged) ive got everything from long stroke to short 1" stroke cylinders, and lots of spares. can you give me a link to that thread?



There are a bunch of different ways. Right now I've been reading a really good thread on pirate about air shifters. They use pneumatic cylinders and dash switches to engage the cases. Pretty trick.

Then there are cable shifters. You can pick these up for fairly cheap and run the lines whereever you need to. You'll still need to set up shifters but with these it kinda gives you more options.

Finally, there's the old fashioned method. Cut a hole in the floor and run the shifters straight from the case. There a bunch of twin-stick kits on the internet including ebay. I'd just find a design that works and copy the idea and save yourself a few bucks.

I believe Northwest Fab makes a triple stick kit but it costs around $350.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

thanks Elliot and Pete! Here's what fell out of mine this weekend...
and I need to put it back together. I'm thinking a machine shop might be better suited to deal with my mishap.

Vaseline or some stickey Grease in the Gears where the rollers ride, place the rollers in the grease, place the gear assy in the case and slide the shaft in. I know.........it sounds easy ;)

[Elliott]

Here's the 203 input for a Ford case, the external dimensions are the same as the other 203 inputs:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Ford203InputGearDimensions2.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Ford203InputGearDimensions2.jpg)

[bigun]

Well, I found a 77 Dodge 203 yesterday for $50! What 205 should I look for to put on my 88 GW drivers side drop? I'm thinking that I'll try to build my own adapter, it really doesn't look that hard. Anyone here built their own?

Thanks! I think cowkiller did. I don't know if it will help but this guy shows how to take a 203 apart and put it back together.
http://www.alaska4x4network.com/showthread.php?t=19670

[orangecherokee]

Here's the 203 input for a Ford case, the external dimensions are the same as the other 203 inputs:

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Parts-Junkyards/Ford203InputGearDimensions2.JPG

Elliot, I did more searching and found out that you can use any 203 input in any 203 case. They're pretty much interchangable. :thumbsup:

Pete, I see what you mean. Elliot got to my question a little quicker and that's when I found the information above.

Malodin, look under Gen4x4 Discussion on Pirate4x4.com/forum. The title of the thread is "Air Shifted 205" or something like that. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543426

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Yup that is correct, you can swap the input for whatever style you need. Like I had mentioned in my reply above: "I am guessing you have a 203 from behind a TH350, if so then you will need an input from a 203 that was behind a TH400" that would give you a 32 spline input. I believe it to be the only input you can use, and its kind of rare. Since the 203 was never behind a 32 spline manual trans it limits your search to just the TH400 version.

[orangecherokee]

yup, that's right. i always pick the rare parts. It took me almost 6 months to find a 205 with the round bolt pattern. The hunt is afoot! :drivin:

[Elliott]

Short hunt, check the wanted column for your listing.:)

[Alon K.]

Anybody have any idea where I can find the spline data on the TH400 output shaft? I'm building my own doubler and need to respline the output shaft of the 203.
I assume it's some standard (SAE?) or other, so a reference to the correct standard will be very useful.

thanx.

[orangecherokee]

does anyone know, if I have the 465 with the 32 spline long output and round pattern adapter, do I need the th400 to 203 adapter to bolt to it or do I tap the face of the 203 to fit to it? Also, if you tap what about the rest of the face on the range box and the shaft at the bottom that holds the gears in the range box. I need to tell someone soon and I can't find out. thanks

[Elliott]

If you are trying to mate the SM465 to the 203 you will want a SM465 NP208 adaptor and drill the pattern into the 203 after rotating to the position you want. Check with ElBastardo who recently did this. The SM465 NP205 adaptor is too long to use.

[Bama Burden]

Ya, use the 208 adapter and tap the 203 face

[orangecherokee]

The SM465 NP205 adaptor is too long to use.
yeah but the th400 to 203 is small. will it not bolt up to the adapter I already have in there? it adds an inch or maybe 2. i think i just need to see a pic.

[Bama Burden]

aren't the round pattern 205 and 208 adapters the same?

[orangecherokee]

yes.

edit: here's a pic of what i'm talking about. This is the th400 to 203 adapter.

[Bama Burden]

I'm a tard, couldn't figure out why you were wanting to put 2 adapters back-to-back. I think you're just going to ignore the end of that shaft. It's not going to walk out or else it would be beating the hell out of the stock 203 adapters

http://www.northwestfab.com/images/np203redrill.JPG

[orangecherokee]

that's exactly what I was wondering. i was afraid that shaft would walk out.

[Elliott]

aren't the round pattern 205 and 208 adapters the same?
No, they are different lengths.
The SM465 208 adapter is 8 3/8".
The SM465 205 adapter is _____?
With a SM465 there is no point in even bringing a TH400 adaptor into the equation.
As far as keep the 203 intermediate shaft in place just build a strap to go between the two old adaptor holes pictured that are plugged, bolt it in there. You can rotate the shaft to have the flat square to the strap.

[orangecherokee]

that's what i'll need to do then. thanks

[Elliott]

What's the length of your SM465-NP205 adapter Nick? Can't find my info around here...

[Bama Burden]

Are all round pattern GM 205s 32 spline input?

[orangecherokee]

I'll have to measure Elliot. I knew at one time but it has slipped me since then. I don't know if I'm going home this weekend but if I do I'll check. Also, I know mine is the 208 adapter but my 205 bolts to it.

[Elliott]

Right, it's the same bolt pattern. The 208 adapter just doesn't have the same NP205 cutout used to fit around the inside shifter rail.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_SM465-NP208Adaptor.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/SM465-NP208Adaptor.jpg)

BTW, it's the same issues with the Ford NP435 - GM 203 adaptation, only when you have the Ford 435-208 adapter fit to the GM 203 the adapter will mate with the notch in the 203 intermediate shaft.

I have a drill template that I used for my Ford pattern, it has only one hole that is different then the GM 208 (which is marked in pen). I could mail that to you to use if you want. You could clock it to match how your pattern should line up by just indexing off of the bearing retainer rather then bolting it straight to the 203 as I designed it for my application.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_PilotTemplateLayout-Ford-Dodge-Jeep-Pattern.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/PilotTemplateLayout-Ford-Dodge-Jeep-Pattern.jpg)

Drill template located
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_JigLocated.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/JigLocated.jpg) (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10016/JigLocated.JPG)

Pilots
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Pilots.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Pilots.jpg) (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10016/Pilots.JPG)

Threaded for studs
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Threaded.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Threaded.jpg) (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10016/Threaded.JPG)

Adaptor fitted
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Adaptor.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Adaptor.jpg) (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10016/Adaptor.JPG)

[j20brett]

This is probably a little OT for this thread, but does the rear output shift rail need to be in any particular gear, as in 2hi, 4hi, N, or 4low, to punch out the roll pin and remov the rail?

[Elliott]

I just punch the shifter all the way to the rear.

[j20brett]

well i got it pulled...here's what i found...

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/0210071332a.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/0210071332.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/0210071331a.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/0210071331.jpg

pete was saying that it was the interlock pins that caused those grooves...it still wont shift completely into 4-low

[Elliott]

Looks like you need a shift rail... maybe more. Not sure how that could happen... maybe something jumping around in the case(?). Strange... do you have a parts case, or access to one?

[j20brett]

nope no parts case...but im sure i could prolly find one around here...maybe. I was thinking that it would fix it when i twin sticked it since that would be ground down anyways...or just weld the indents and grind back smooth. Still cant figure out why the shift fork wont push the collar far back enough to engage the rear output...

[Elliott]

For that to happen I'm thinking you have bigger problems, but I've only been inside the 205 a few times. Chances are that if you swapped that shift rail out for another it still won't go into low range... be my guess. What shape is the shifter fork in?
Out of curiosity, have you pulled the other rail to see what shape it's in?

[j20brett]

yeah i didnt know if there was enough slack where the indents were ground in that something wasnt sliding far enough in to let it fully engage in 4-low. Shift fork seems fine to me...shifts into 4-hi, 2 hi and neutral without issue. No i havent pulled the other rail as there was no problem with that one. But when i took off the inspection cover and watched the fork slide the collar, everything was fine till it went to go into 4-low. There seemed to be about 3/32" of slack in between the collar and shift fork...just enough to let it not fully engage. The front output engages btw, just not the rear.

Here's kinda what it looks like when the front output is in 4low and rear is almost there (as far as the rail will let it go)

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/gear-1.jpg

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I think I asked you this before, but did you try to slide that colar all the way without the rail in place, using a couple screw drivers. You want to verify that it will actually move, before blaming the shifter.
If it does slide in and out of all its modes without the shift fork and rail, then it obviously is in the shift rail or fork. I would say by what I can see in the pics where the interlock pins are digging into the mode detents so deeply that there is an issue there. The interlock pin WILL stop the rail, its supposed to. Take a grinder and take out the burs and dents, in the shift rail, try it. Its my guess when the pin hits the dents on the mode detent, it stops there. Pull the interlock pins and then try shifting all the modes with your shift rails. The other shift rail can also cause your problem as well. The interlock pins need to be able to shuttle back and forth ALL THE WAY, if it gets hung up on the other shift rail in a dent, and you try to shift low on the other shift rail, the pin is not going to allow it to happen because the interlock pin is not in its proper detent on the oposite rail, because it is hung up in a dent or bur. I hope that all makes sense. :rolleyes:

[j20brett]

:confused: (i need a deer in the headlights smilie lol)

i think i caught most of that. and yes the collar will move all the way over to where its supposed to be with the rail out.

Should i weld and then grind down where the interlock pins dug into the detents or just grind them flat?

And for pulling the interlock pins, is this major surgery to the case?

I'll pull the other rail this weekend and wee how it looks.. should be same process as removing the other rail right?

I really appreciate all this info...its starting to makes some sense!!:rolleyes:

[orangecherokee]

If you need spare parts let me know. I have a spare 205 case that I robbed a fixed tailshaft off of. I might even have a set of spare rails.

[j20brett]

Sweeeeet...i'll let you know...how hard is it to take this thing apart...and put back together?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I assume you are twin sticking this T-Case? You need to grind the area where the damage is anyhow, so I would not weld it, Just touch it up with a grinder, extend the detents as instructed in twin stick Mods.............You are shifting this thing now, as a single stick action right? If not, maybe thats the problem. Since you have isolated the problem now to be in the shift rails, next thing I would do is pull the other rail and check it, slide it back in and Do not put the fork on either rail. Put the detent balls and springs in, and then try to get all the mode positions on the shift rails. If you can't and I bet you won't, you then know for sure that is the problem. You can pull the interlock pins, and yes the guts pretty much have to come out to do it, but I think I would touch up the rails with the grinder and try it then. You can run it without the interlock pins, however getting the front output in Low Range and Rear in high or vise versa would be possible, in the heat of the moment that may not be a good thing, though it would be funny to watch :thumbsup:

[orangecherokee]

Sweeeeet...i'll let you know...how hard is it to take this thing apart...and put back together?

no clue but i like gear driven cases. in no way does it take a rocket scientist to put one together. best thing is get a dig camera and take pics of eaxch step if you think it'll take more than a day or so. that way you have reminders!

i took my 203 apart two-three weeks ago and put it together like it was nothing this past weekend.

[j20brett]

Yes i am going to twin stick it eventually so i could grind it out next weeknd and be done with that part of it. But will i still be able to use it as a single shift after grinding the rail? I dont have the funds to buy the sticks now. Sounds like i have some fun times ahead here.:rolleyes: On a side note, would an auto parts store sell a ball bearing that i could replace the detent ball with...its quite worn as well.

[bigun]

IYou can run it without the interlock pins, however getting the front output in Low Range and Rear in high or vise versa would be possible, in the heat of the moment that may not be a good thing, though it would be funny to watch :thumbsup:
It ain't when your trying to figure out "what the H3ll is wrong now"!!!! LOL

[McRoth]

I was looking at Jed's Machining's adapter & noticed that there is no bearing in it for the shaft between the 203 & 205, where other ones I've looked at do. Is this bearing necessary? Hopefully not, as it will make making my own adapter MUCH easier without having to locate it exactly right.

Thanks!

[Elliott]

Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by a bearing in the adaptor between the cases... none of them I know of use one. For the early figure 8 bolt pattern NP205 there is a seal that is required in the adaptor, but the bearings are specific to each case.

[McRoth]

http://www.northwestfab.com/203-205adaptorinstallpg2.html
This is the one I think I was looking at. Glad that it isn't really necessary though!

[orangecherokee]

I've seen what you're talking about and I'm actually using it. I figure one more bearing couldn't be that bad for it :thumbsup: I can't find the picture I've seen but I've seen it. ORD and NWF don't use it but I'm not sure about Stazworks.

[orangecherokee]

http://www.northwestfab.com/203-205adaptorinstallpg2.html
This is the one I think I was looking at. Glad that it isn't really necessary though!

that's the one. I guess I stand corrected. NWF does.

[Elliott]

Oh, that bearing... :D That is the bearing that is in 203 rangebox backing plate. The other doublers don't incorporate it into their plate?

[Elliott]

Here's a link to Pete's divorced doubler build for folk with a lwb looking at options: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=45170

[Elliott]

Finally got the other part of my NWFab doubler so I swapped inputs around, straightened out a few things... put the twin stick shift rod in the figure 8 205, stuffed some new seals in it and assembled the works.
T176 bell, Ford NP435, GM NP203 w/Ford 31 spline input and re-drilled face, Ford 31 spline 203 output, GM figure 8 NP205 w/ford 31 spline input and HAD rear flange - rotated up and ~flat, custom triple stick by a super member here (still needs the linkage arranged):

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Assembled-1.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Assembled-1.jpg)

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Assembled-2.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Assembled-2.jpg)

Time to pull the T18/D20 and get measurements for the driveshafts (after I set the shift linkage up).

[McRoth]

That looks great Elliott! lot of work there, it sounds like, with all the swapping.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Couple questions Elliott,
Can you measure from the front face of the 203 range box, to the rear face of the doubler adapter where it bolts to the 205. Just curious as to exactly how long it is.
Also, can you measure from the front bellhousing surface to the end of the tailhousing. Just wondering how your 435's length compares to my nv4500.

I have a ford 203 range box just sittin here, trying to figure out if I want to spend the money to slap it in there or not.

[Elliott]

1) 9"
2) ~46.5" to the face of the rear flange

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Sure is a Pretty Lookin setup! Congrats! So the Adaptor between the Ford NP435 and GM 203 is what? Ford NP435 to NP203 adaptor or something else? Or are all the adaptors for the NP435 to NP T-Cases the same? I don't know enough about the Ford stuff, and I like to know these things! ;) Besides the Shifter boss and the clearance in the adaptor on the drivers side has me wondering

[Elliott]

Pete, I'm not sure if the Ford 208 adaptor is shorter... probably as the inputs are different then the 205 I believe. I don't have a measurement for a Ford 208 adaptor....
I used a Ford 205 adaptor with a length of 8 5/8" which is the same length as th Ford 203 adaptor (probably the same unit actually).
Using the GM 203 drilled up to match the Ford adaptor I have ~ 2 1/8" of spline engagement using the Ford 203 input gear. If you were to use a Ford 203 you'd pick up another ~1/4" of spline engagement as the Ford 203 is slightly recessed for the adaptor.

[orangecherokee]

Elliot that's beautiful. Nice work man. I can't wait to hear about the performance. I should have mine done too real soon. I'd also like to see your clearance issues. Keep the pics coming :thumbsup:

[JeepsAndGuns]

One other question for ya elliott, in the pic, is the 205 clocked up as far as the kit lets you, or just slightly?

[Elliott]

Thanks Nick and yeah, I got to looking at the clocking and I just put it together like that 'cause it seemed high enough with the bottom of the 205 level with the bottom of the rest... looked like the front output would be above the crossmember under the doubler mount. It could actually go quite a lot higher, perfectly flat + from the looks of it. I want to keep the driveline angle at minimum while keeping the smooth Jeep belly line.

[4x4fEvEr]

**** way to go elliot that set up is hot! when i started this thread i had every intention of building my doubler, which i have all the parts except the doubler, you know the expensive part of the setup. but since i decided to compeletely tear my jeep down to a frame,body and engine ive run out of money and cant build mine now, so i gotta just run my 435/205 and then once i get the money go back into it. it will just cost me more to do the driveshafts twice i guess. atleast im running 60's front and rear now and 5.13 gears, i should be able to turn my 42's pretty good for now. i hope everybody else wanting a doubler gets theres built :thumbsup:

[Desert Beast]

looks good man, im running the NWF doubler also and i love it. (well haven’t really run it yet :D ) but it is the best one out there imo. most adjustability and (when i bought it) the only one that had a billet intermediate shaft.

[orangecherokee]

where are you guys getting your gaskets from? NAPA, AZ, Advance, O'Reilly, etc? I need the one for the back of the 203, the front of the 203 (which is a 208 pattern) and the 205. has anyone got the PN#s?

edit: anyone used Allstategear.com? they seem to have quite the selection.

[Desert Beast]

i got all my gaskets from NWF in thier rebuild kit for the 203 and the 205.

[Elliott]

I snag gasket kits off ebay, but here's a couple sources for some of the individual gaskets, some of which are hard to come by:
http://www.quad4x4.com/New%20Process%20NP205%20Transfer%20Case.htm (http://www.quad4x4.com/New%20Process%20NP205%20Transfer%20Case.htm)
http://www.drivetrain.com/transfercasesparts.html#New%20Process%20Model%2020 5 (http://www.drivetrain.com/transfercasesparts.html#New%20Process%20Model%2020 5)

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I made my own when I did my doubler. Though I am not sure its cheaper, since gasket paper is not cheap, if you can even find it these days. :rolleyes2:

[Desert Beast]

I made my own when I did my doubler. Though I am not sure its cheaper, since gasket paper is not cheap, if you can even find it these days. :rolleyes2:

haha, ive got an old, old piece of asbestos gasket material. havent seen that for a while.

[orangecherokee]

i have a small roll of cork and a very small roll of black gasket paper. i always end up using the "blue glue" instead :rolleyes:

which prompts this question: Do you think using the "blue glue" would be alright?

[Elliott]

I don't think you should use RTV on the housing seals as I'm pretty sure there needs to be some gap as they work as bearing retainers. I used RTV on the input retainer and it made the gear endplay too tight, unless I had another issue, but things fit right when the gasket was used. That was my experience anyway, and it was the same with the NP435 adaptor... it needed a gasket in there.
I may be completely wrong about the 205, the bearings have o-rings to keep them in the correct position in the case...

[orangecherokee]

Just ordered my gasket kit from ORD for $19. Not too bad I think. I got the 203, 205 and the PTO cover. I still need the 465 gasket but I can pick that in town.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I still need the 465 gasket but I can pick that in town.
Yea I need to get that one too, It must be a pretty thick gasket, there is a pretty good gap between the adaptor and trans without it :eek:

[orangecherokee]

what stinks though is that I can only find the 465 set not just the one gasket. the kit at NAPA is around $25 :(

[JeepsAndGuns]

I tore apart my ford 203 to seperate the range box. After I was done I inspected the laft over parts and found that the rest of the 203 is not completely useless. I pulled the yokes and found them to be 32 spline, and exactly the same as the ones on my 205. And also the front output bearing retainer is also the same as my 205. I dont know if everyone already knows this or not, but figured I would pass it on just in case. I know two yokes and bearing retainer are not mutch, but you never know when you might break one. Now I dont know if the same it true for the chevy 203's or not, but you could check if your tearing one apart. You never know.


And while on the subject of the 205's. Where can I get the best quality rebuild kit for one? I see them on ebay, but I have no clue of the quality of the bearings and seals. I always kinda prefer timkin brand bearings when I can get them. And also the best seals I can get, either timkin or national. So anyone know where to get the best rebuild kit?

[Tigger4X]

Northwest Fab was recommended to me because of the clocking ring. Although, I've heard there are shipping problems due to NWF being located in Cananda --- it takes a while to receive it


When it comes to a doubler kit all I can say is that Northwest Fab is :thumbsup:

And whats a coupla extra days for shipping when it comes to a superior set-up. ;)

All I am waiting on now is my high steer/crossover kit and a few other odds and ends and I should be :drivin:


Best of luck with your doubler and keep on :fsj:

[Elliott]

I found that with my 3" body lift I could clock the front output down from where I had it by raising everything else up to level with the frame, this put the rear output up 3" higher (I'm fixing to CV it anyway so I'm not worried about the rear angle. May have to tilt the radiator to match the fan angle... or may even go electric by the time that's all squared away. I'm working in a 205 torque brace as well, then need to flange the ends of the crossmember to bolt it to the vertical part of the frame rail. Need to get some 1" poly bushings for the adaptor mount.

[orangecherokee]

looks snug Elliot. I'm also thinking of bracing my 205. i think i'll be boxing the frame first and then doing it.

[4x4fEvEr]

where do you get the parts or how do u get the 205 clocked up?

[Elliott]

I used a NW Fab Doubler that allows for clocking.
(with the exception of my rotating the bolt pattern a lil on my GM 203 to match the Ford NP435 adaptor I think my clocking is just about the same now as OEM GM... the body lift allows me to raise it to clear the bottom of the frame).
If you need to clock a 205 and aren't using a doubler there is an adaptor you can find on Ebay that will clock a figure 8 pattern GM 205.

[4x4fEvEr]

yeah i was wanting to clock the 205 since i cant afford to build my doulbler and i want to wheel sooner than later. i dont have the figure eight pattern on my ford 205 does that mean theres no hope"?

[Elliott]

Ah, you've got the Ford 205... that doesn't seem like it would need clocking, but there is a guy on Pirate (a vendor) that sells various clocking rings and could prolly build you one if he doesn't have it already and they are like $65 or something.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Just pulled apart my range box to give it a good cleaning (thing is a ball of goo) and check everything inside it. Man this thing hs the bigest mess of needle bearings on the counter gear I have ever seen, three rows worth of them. But anyway, I got the thing all apart and it looks like there has been a GOOD ammount of grinding going on between the input gear and the shift coller. I am not too worried about the input because I have to get a 32 spline one anyways. But I am not too sure on re useing the shift coller. I dont want the chewed up teeth to mess up a new input. So is there anywhere I can get a new shift coller? It is a ford 203 range box.

[Elliott]

The shift collar will be the same regardless of what the 203 mated to. Find someone with a parted case (GM TH350 27 spline is the most common) and get the part from them or find a parted case on ebay. Not sure of any place that would stock the parts... but someone has a stripped range box they tore down for the 32 spline input.;)

[orangecherokee]

why yes someone does ;)

[JeepsAndGuns]

why yes someone does ;)

Would it be anyone that would be willing to sell the said shift coller? ;) :D

[4x4fEvEr]

i cannot for the life of me get the shift rail out of this 205 so i can twin stick it!!! i read that the front output shift rail needs to be in neutral. only position i can get that rail in is 4wd which is all the way in, 2wd which seems to be the next notch in and neutral owuld be the shift rail goin in even farther? if it is it wont go and im stuck

[j20brett]

you punched out the roll pin right?

[JeepsAndGuns]

If I remember correctly, the front output, all the way in would be 4x4, in the middle is N, and all the way out would be 4low. I think the rear output is the same. All the way out would be in drive, in the middle is N, and all the way in is low.

If your haveing trouble moveing the rails, take the shift rail popet balls and springs out. You have to do that anyway to remove the rear output shift rail. I found I could not move the rails by hand untill I did that. Also IIRC, the rear output shift rail needs to be in N to line up the roll pin with the hole in the case.

[4x4fEvEr]

yeah i had the roll pin out and allegedly had the mode rail in neutral but it wouldnt come out. so i just took the whole case apart. needed to be freshened up anyways :D

[Desert Beast]

just an fyi for anyone thats going to run the NWF doubler.

MOUNT THE 205 ALSO.

i just had the 2 mounts for the front 203 adapter and the doubler adapter. this was not enough. i broke the clocking ring. so...be sure you support the 205 also.

on a side note NWF is taking care of me so i have no complaints for their customer service.
it just sucks that it had to break @ moab.

[wickedwagon767]

just an fyi for anyone thats going to run the NWF doubler.

MOUNT THE 205 ALSO.

i just had the 2 mounts for the front 203 adapter and the doubler adapter. this was not enough. i broke the clocking ring. so...be sure you support the 205 also.

on a side note NWF is taking care of me so i have no complaints for their customer service.
it just sucks that it had to break @ moab.

Ouch

[orangecherokee]

Whoops! Sucks Garret. I've been debating over that. Guess I got my answer.

[Desert Beast]

it was pretty crappy.
you could just make the x-member to support the front mount (the trans to 203 adapter) and then the 205. there isnt really a need to mount the doubler adapter if your going to support the 205.

but you have to support the 205. after seeing this part broken there is not that much beef holding the 205 to the 203. maybe 1/8".
ill get some pix later this week.

[Slick Willie]

Alright, since the thread is called 203/205 Doubler ingredients, I have two questions:

1) Are there any 3:1 gears made for a Ford 205? Low Max has GM, but no Ford. :banghead:

2) Is the Ford 6 bolt pattern on a 203 the same as the 6 bolt pattern on a Dodge 203? Basically, will a Ford 203 bolt where a Dodge 203 will?

[Desert Beast]

at this time no one else is making 3:1 gears for the ford 205 (lomax might be in the works on one). but you can get a 3:1 gearset for the 203.

[Slick Willie]

but you can get a 3:1 gearset for the 203.

Hmmm... Any more info on this? :thumbsup:

[Elliott]

Will, unless there is a special input gear that Lomax makes for the GM 203 I'm pretty sure that all the gears inside the 203 range box will interchange. If'n I'm wrong... someone let me know, but I think the only differences were the input and the case dimesions being offset one side or the other with opposite shifter locations. At any rate it's simple enough to put a GM 203 behind a Ford tranny if that's what you think you might be looking at, I have a drill template and you'd need a Ford input gear if it would work with the Lowmax gears.

[Desert Beast]

Hmmm... Any more info on this? :thumbsup:

Waggoner machine shop use to sell them. now that they’re belly up might want to call sumner machine (they took over WMS).

[JeepsAndGuns]

2) Is the Ford 6 bolt pattern on a 203 the same as the 6 bolt pattern on a Dodge 203? Basically, will a Ford 203 bolt where a Dodge 203 will?

Cant help you on the dodge part. But I have a ford 203 range box sitting here I can take a picture of if you want.

I do know one thing. There is one bolt that is diffrent between the ford 205 and ford 203. My guess is that they did that so you couldnt bolt a 203 to a manual trans. But you can re drill the front face of the 203 range box real easy to make it work.

[Slick Willie]

I'm looking to put Ford 203/Ford 205 behind my 727 tranny. I have a driver drop front D60, so I need a Ford 205 for sure. McRoth says he bolted his Dodge 203 right to his 727, so that would work. But I have access to a Ford 203 for next to free, so I'm trying to figure out if the Ford 203 will bolt to the 727 after swapping in 23 spline input gears. They both have the 6 bolt round pattern, but I think it's a little off. Some guys on Pirate say they're the same with just a clocking difference. The ORD guy says it's no problem at all, it'll bolt up.

But now I'm worried about even having the 1,2,3 & 6:1 options that a 3:1 case with a 2:1 case could give me. If I can't get 3:1 gears in a Ford NP205, I'm screwed with my driver drop front axle with a 205. I need to figure out if I can get a 3:1 in either a Ford 205, or some 203 or my plans change.

[Slick Willie]

Cant help you on the dodge part. But I have a ford 203 range box sitting here I can take a picture of if you want.


You don't have a 727 lying around to see if it'll line up, do you? :rolleyes:

[Elliott]

You don't have a 727 lying around to see if it'll line up, do you? :rolleyes:

I do, and can check this out if he doesn't have the set to try and match. My Ford 203 box is stripped down so it'll be easy to check once I pull the NP229 off the 727.

[Slick Willie]

Sweet! The input gears are way off, so it won't slide on much, but hopefully the holes will line up somehow. Don't be afraid to snap a couple pictures. ;)

Thanks Elliott!

[JeepsAndGuns]

I have the ford 203 range box, but no 727, sorry. Hopefully Elliott can hook ya up.

[Elliott]

The first pic is of my GM 203 drill template showing the Ford NP pattern in pilots and then the one hole that needs to be pulled up on the 727 adaptor, 1/4", all the other holes are a match. I will try and get a pic tomorrow to be sure the adaptor hole needing to be pulled will not go through a web on the casting:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_PilotTemplateLayout-Ford-Dodge-Jeep-Pattern.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/PilotTemplateLayout-Ford-Dodge-Jeep-Pattern.jpg)

This is a shot of the patterns compared on the actual Ford 203:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_AMC_TF727_Ford_NP_Pattern_b.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/AMC_TF727_Ford_NP_Pattern_b.jpg)

I will also get a measurement tomorrow of how far the NP229 input sticks out of the face of the case so you can compare with the Ford NP203 input stick out... to figure variance in sline engagement. I'm thinking they will be close.
If you need anything else let me know, and if you don't want that Ford 203, or just the input gear, I'd be interested as I used the input from this 203.:D

[Elliott]

The one bolt hole that needs pulling up 1/4" looks like it will allow you to still clear the web on the adaptor:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_AMC_TF727_Ford_NP_Pattern_b.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/AMC_TF727_Ford_NP_Pattern_b.jpg)

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_AMC_TF727-Ford_NP_Pattern-a.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/AMC_TF727-Ford_NP_Pattern-a.jpg)

Stickout on the NP229 input gear is ~2 1/4", that will give you something to figure your spline engagement differences. TF727 spline distance from the back of the adaptor is 1/4" into the adaptor giving you ~2" of spline engagement stock.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_NP229_225_Stickout.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/NP229_225_Stickout.jpg)

Measure the stickout of the Ford 203 gear, I'm thinking you will have 1-1.5"s of spline engagement. Here's a pic of the gear with some measurements, but I don't have it to check how far it actually sticks out of the Ford 203 case (the groove for the clip retainer would be ~1/4" from the face of the case after the bearing retainer clip mates with the case, but that area is recessed from the face):

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Ford203InputGearDimensions2.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Ford203InputGearDimensions2.jpg)


The Ford NP203 bearing dimensions:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_Ford203InputBearingDimensions2.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/Ford203InputBearingDimensions2.jpg)

[trcooperone]

I am new at the waggy thing and am a little overwhelmed with all of the doubler talk.

I have a 1989 grand wagoneer with Dana 44s front and rear and the front is driver side drop.

My questions are, What make should the 205 and 203 be from to fit behind my 727?

Do i have to just buy the adapter to connect the 203/205 or are there other mods I have to do?

What is the spline count on my 727 and is there any mods I have to do there?

Sorry, for all of the Q's but for some reason my simple mind is having a hard time gripping the build up of the doubler.

Thanks for you help!

[Slick Willie]

My questions are, What make should the 205 and 203 be from to fit behind my 727?


That's what we're figuring out. Stay tuned...
Edit: I swear I can't read today. Ford is the only Driver drop 205, so that narrows your options. Dodge 203's have 23 spline inputs, Ford has 31 spline, and I've heard they can be swapped. Check out these sites and their links for more info:

http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/Tcase_NP205.htm
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/doubler.htm
http://www.northwestfab.com/203-205adaptor.html

Do i have to just buy the adapter to connect the 203/205 or are there other mods I have to do?


Adapter, spline counts, clocking, output yoke sizes, shifter linkages, twin stick-abilitiy, etc. There are a lot of things to think about.

What is the spline count on my 727 and is there any mods I have to do there?


23 spline outer from the transmission. Ford 205's have 31 spline input shaft, so you'd have to swap it.



Thanks for the pics Elliott! I have a thread on Pirate under the Ford section about 3:1 gears for a 205, and they say no one makes them, and they won't interchange in a stock case. They simply won't fit. So 3:1 in a Ford 205 is not practical. 3:1 in a 203 is still possibly a myth. I'm still waiting on more info, but I'm not holding my breath.

For anyone that's interested, there's a NP435/203/205 all bolted together, newly rebuilt, with tripple stick, here close to Austin for $1300. I've been trying like crap to get it to work in my stuff, but it seems out of reach with only 2:1 or 4:1 tcase options. That's not what I want, so I guess I'll have to pass.

[Elliott]

"23 spline outer from the transmission. Ford 205's have 31 spline input shaft, so you'd have to swap it."

The Dodge 205 inputs are male and use a drive sleeve (female coupler) to the 727 output. Thing to consider is... would the Dodge 205/727 adaptor bolt to the face of a Ford 205... I'm guessing that it's like the scenario above where the one hole is 1/4" off.

[McRoth]

[quote=Slick Willie]That's what we're figuring out. Stay tuned...



A Dodge 203 w/ the tranny adapter will bolt up to a 727 & mate it to a Ford 205, which is drivers drop. That's what I'm doing. I haven't bolted the 203 up yet, but all the reasearch I've done says it'll work fine. I built the adapter myself, took an afternoon, but wasn't too hard.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=66928

[Slick Willie]

It's been a crazy day. I edited my post above. :banghead:

[Elliott]

Will, Sumner is fixing to bring back the Ford 203 3:1 gear when they get their new shop completed and that is reportedly looking like this fall. They are steering folk to LoMax for the time being... which makes me think the gal was talking about 205's instead of the 203.... arrg, I'm waiting on a call back...

OK, John says he's fixin' to do the NP203 3.2:1 gears again in a couple months.

[4x4fEvEr]

OK, John says he's fixin' to do the NP203 3.2:1 gears again in a couple months.


awesome! so it is a good thing i cant afford to do my doubler, now i can wait for a 3.2 set.

[4x4fEvEr]

on a side not i went to put my 205 back together (new seals and gaskets) and i seem to be one needle bearing short on the rear output need bearings. the small diameter with the large amount of bearings. whatever its called. can you get those individually?

[JeepsAndGuns]

Do you mean the ones in the tailhousing? On mine they were "captured" and dont come out, but yours may be diffrent.

[4x4fEvEr]

um yeah those in the tail housing by individually i meant that one bearing instead of a kit.

[Elliott]

Do you have a caliper to take a measurement? I have a bunch of roller bearings from a 203 (IIRC) and they may be the same...

[JeepsAndGuns]

Are you talking about this guy?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/JeepsAndGuns/caliper.jpg

I take it back, I thought these were captured, but it was the ones for the front output that are. It had been several weeks since I tore it apart.

[Elliott]

I think that's what he means...

[4x4fEvEr]

that be the one tharr! i have some calipers ill size em up this weekend, i could use any help i can get :thumbsup:

[JeepsAndGuns]

Well I am rebuilding mine, and will be ordering the rebuild kit here in the next couple of days. So if you want, I guess I could send you my old one. Its should be just fine, I am rebuilding it just because I have no history on the mileage of this one. I figure I am rebuilding everything else, why not rebuild the 205.

[4x4fEvEr]

hook an:D abingdon whiteboy up!!

[JeepsAndGuns]

Shoot me a PM with your adress.

[unclethumbtack]

I am trying to figure out if you guys ever decided that the ford 203 would bolt up to the 727. I have a ford 203 and 205 I could build a doubler with but I run the 727 tranny.

[Elliott]

I am trying to figure out if you guys ever decided that the ford 203 would bolt up to the 727. I have a ford 203 and 205 I could build a doubler with but I run the 727 tranny.

What we know is that you need to pull the one hole 1/4" as described earlier.
Can you get a Dodge 23 spline input for the Ford 203?
I was waiting for a measurement to figure the spline engagement which I had figured to be between 1-1.5" which should be enough. Can you get a pic with measurements of the Ford 203 to compare with this 229?

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/th_NP229_225_Stickout.jpg (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo53/65Gladiator/Doubler/NP229_225_Stickout.jpg)

[unclethumbtack]

What we know is that you need to pull the one hole 1/4" as described earlier.
Can you get a Dodge 23 spline input for the Ford 203?
I was waiting for a measurement to figure the spline engagement which I had figured to be between 1-1.5" which should be enough. Can you get a pic with measurements of the Ford 203 to compare with this 229?

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10016/NP229_2_25_Stickout.JPG

Yes I will try to pull it this coming week or weekend.

[JeepsAndGuns]

The ford 203 range box I have settin here measures about 1-1 1/8.

[Elliott]

The ford 203 range box I have settin here measures about 1-1 1/8.

That would be 7/8" spline engagement, which is better than 3/4" engagement some setups will leave you. I'd go for it... :D if you ever twist it all apart you can swap in a 32 spline 203 input and go with a TH400.

[JeepsAndGuns]

7/8 of splines :eek: Yikes, that just does not sound like mutch. I never saw the transmission my 203 was bolted to (C6) but I am guessing that on it, the output stuck out past the tailhousing?

[Elliott]

7/8 of splines :eek: Yikes, that just does not sound like mutch. I never saw the transmission my 203 was bolted to (C6) but I am guessing that on it, the output stuck out past the tailhousing?

I believe it would have had to... with the 727 the output is about 1/4" inside the adaptor. I've read on POR where guys had just 3/4" spline engagement and it was working so...
I think it would actually be more important to have greater spline engagement after the range box. If it works out to 7/8" I'd go for it if there wasn't a good alternative... but with a range box, he could just as easily use a Dodge range box 'cept he doesn't have one.

[4x4fEvEr]

where can i get an exploded view of a 205 i cant remember how to put mine back together!?!? thanks for the bearing jeepsandguns!

[4x4fEvEr]

who sells the most inexpensive twin stick kit for the 205?

[j20brett]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/Parts%20Diagrams%20and%20Pics/tn205.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/brett6819/Parts%20Diagrams%20and%20Pics/np205.gif

ord has a nice twin stick setup for ~$195

[4x4fEvEr]

thank you sir. not to be a pain in the *** but is there a legend page thats names all the parts?>

[j20brett]

sorry i didnt save the legend. just search np205 exploded diagram/view or parts diagram

edit: found one

http://www.danvm.com/dan/truck/specs/np205/transfer_case.html

[McRoth]

Don't know if you guys saw my post about it, but while the Dodge 203 tranny adapter will bolt up to a Jeep 727, it is 2" longer than the Jeep adapter. I'm going to have to swap out the Jeep output shaft with a Dodge one to get it to work.

[JeepsAndGuns]

where can i get an exploded view of a 205 i cant remember how to put mine back together!?!? thanks for the bearing jeepsandguns!

Just glad I could help. :thumbsup:

[orangecherokee]

Hey guys. I haven't been on this thread for awhile but my doubler got finished and I tried it out a few times. Here's the link to the album.

http://www.rebelrockrunners.org/gallery/v/buildups/nick/doubler/

enjoy :thumbsup:

[4x4fEvEr]

OK, John says he's fixin' to do the NP203 3.2:1 gears again in a couple months.

is there a website to checkup on this? or a number to call. i think im gonna hold out till this is available because 6.2:1 would be sweet.


Nick. nice work on the doubler, you def suck. since you are in NC now you will have to come up and wheel callalantee in mtn city tn sometime! :drivin:

[orangecherokee]

yeah i was wondering. how far away is that from me? I was looking on the NC4x4 site and everyone was talking about it. I'd love to come.

[Elliott]

is there a website to checkup on this? or a number to call. i think im gonna hold out till this is available because 6.2:1 would be sweet.

http://www.sumnermachine.com/

[4x4fEvEr]

yeah i was wondering. how far away is that from me? I was looking on the NC4x4 site and everyone was talking about it. I'd love to come.

yeah we just had the big SFWDA meet there hosted by CTB which im a member of it was effin great! even the ice cream man was there :rolleyes:

i mapquested it and you are about 2 hours away but it shows you goin across 421 which is nothing but swithbacks all the way to mountain city. not fun pullin a trailer.

[4x4fEvEr]

thanks elliot

[orangecherokee]

yeah we just had the big SFWDA meet there hosted by CTB which im a member of it was effin great! even the ice cream man was there :rolleyes:

i mapquested it and you are about 2 hours away but it shows you goin across 421 which is nothing but swithbacks all the way to mountain city. not fun pullin a trailer.

the ice cream man! LOL!! I'm glad you got to see him. Well, I was thinking of going through Johnson City. I just take I-26 over to TN and to Johnson City, then go from there. It takes about 45-1hr to get to JC from Asheville. Is there an addy I can look up and find a better route?

Edit: Did some Googling and found it. It'll take about 2 hours and a bit to get there. Not bad. If I get this clutch and spring in this weekend I'll need to shake it down again. Wanna head up there?

[JeepsAndGuns]

Hey 4x4, I am gonna be up there in abingdon for the first week of july. Any fun easy trails a un locked 31in tired YJ could get through? lol

[4x4fEvEr]

the ice cream man! LOL!! I'm glad you got to see him. Well, I was thinking of going through Johnson City. I just take I-26 over to TN and to Johnson City, then go from there. It takes about 45-1hr to get to JC from Asheville. Is there an addy I can look up and find a better route?

Edit: Did some Googling and found it. It'll take about 2 hours and a bit to get there. Not bad. If I get this clutch and spring in this weekend I'll need to shake it down again. Wanna head up there?


i can get people together anytime just about. let me know. theres anything from stock to 54's to play on

[4x4fEvEr]

Hey 4x4, I am gonna be up there in abingdon for the first week of july. Any fun easy trails a un locked 31in tired YJ could get through? lol

come on up theres plenty

[Elliott]

is there a website to checkup on this? or a number to call. i think im gonna hold out till this is available because 6.2:1 would be sweet.

John ought to be getting around to this by now, if things went as planned this summer.

[4x4fEvEr]

i hope so, the webiste gave little to no information and was way outdated

[4x4fEvEr]

update john is in the process of putting up a new building and moving so the 3:1 gearset is on the backburner for awhile

[BRUTUS]

Well... I just got a line on a $150 32 spline NP203 that I will be picking up tonight. I hadn't planned on doing the doubler route right away (as many of you know) but at this price I can't pass it up.

Since I work at a machine shop, I can do the billet aluminum adapter myself... can I buy the shaft coupler individually anywhere? I just haven't had time lately to look around for the shaft coupler.

[Elliott]

What shaft coupler are you talking about? You can buy just the 203 billet output shaft from NW Fab and you can get that in either 31 spline to mate a Ford 205 or in 32 spline for a GM 205.

[BRUTUS]

Sorry, by shaft coupler I meant NP203 output shaft.

[Long&Low]

I picked up a doubler kit off of Pirate from some place in Wisconsin, I think his name on Pirate was Jaybird. Their doubler adapter is a two piece unit, that you have to weld together, the advantage of that is you can clock your t-case in ANY position.

I'm running an Ford NP435, Ford NP203 Range box, mated to a flipped Jeep Dana 300. With my axle gearing, my Jeep has about a 175 to 1 crawl ratio.

It is quite fun and extremely control-able on rocks.

[Mahamotorworks]

What 203 Range box will/is the easiest to adapt to a TH400? I know some one who is selling a couple of 203s and want to know what I am looking for before I pick one up.

Thanks

MAHA

[BRUTUS]

What 203 Range box will/is the easiest to adapt to a TH400? I know some one who is selling a couple of 203s and want to know what I am looking for before I pick one up.

Thanks

MAHA

The obvious answer is a 203 that came behind a TH400 (from what I can tell they are hard to come by). The second not-so-obvious answer is ANY 203 with a Northwest Fabworks 32 spline adapter.

http://northwestfab.com/input.html

[orangecherokee]

I think any 203 with the 32 spline should be money. You can tap the face for any bolt pattern at a machine shop.

[shadowjeep]

will the dodge 203 bolt to a 727 without machining?

[McRoth]

Yes, BUT you have to swap the output shaft of the Jeep 727 with the Dodge 727 shaft. I learned this the hard way when I found that the Jeep adapter is about 2" shorter than the Dodge!! Luckily I needed to get the trans rebuilt anyhow, so they just did it while it was apart.

[shadowjeep]

when you say the jeep adapter you just mean the rear output of the transmission right? not an actual adapter added to the trans.

[McRoth]

The adapter between the trans & transfer case.

[shadowjeep]

mcroth, you got any pics of the new setup? i would like to see any differences there might be. i do have a tranny in need of rebuilding, ill have to find a dodge tranny to swap outputs.

[McRoth]

I'll try to get them for you tonight.

[shadowjeep]

cool, sounds good. i have been wanting to rebuild a 727 that i accidently burned up a while back. that will give me a chance to kill two birds with one tranny.:D

[McRoth]

Here they are. I really need to clean up the output shaft & oil it!

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t175/emeraldisleforge/IMG_2538.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t175/emeraldisleforge/IMG_2536.jpg

[shadowjeep]

thanks for the pics, that helps a lot when going to the boneyard to find a tranny. what years should i look for on the dodge tranny?

is the dodge 203 the only one that will bolt up to 727? what about the gm 203? or is that the same thing?

[McRoth]

I believe the mid to late 70's dodge's came with 203's, at least some of them. I got my output shaft from the tranny shop that did my rebuild, you should be able to find one that way too, I'd think. it was on ly $20.
Yes, the dodge is the only one that will work AFIK.

[mark]

is it somehow possible to adapt 2 cases so that i can get a driver side drop?im currently running a t 400 and a 205.just wodering if i could mix things up somehow to get a dr side drop so i can use a hp ford dana 60 with my current chevy setup.

[Long&Low]

is it somehow possible to adapt 2 cases so that i can get a driver side drop?im currently running a t 400 and a 205.just wodering if i could mix things up somehow to get a dr side drop so i can use a hp ford dana 60 with my current chevy setup.

Well, the Ford NP205 is a 32 spline unit if I remember correctly, and it drops down on the driver's side. You'd have to figure how to mate a Ford NP205 to your NP203 of your choosing.

I picked up my adapter from a guy off of Pirate named Dirtybird, his stuff was inexpensive, and he made adapters to fit different 203 range boxes to lots of stuff, even Dana 300's.

[JeepsAndGuns]

The ford version has a 31 spline input, and 32 spline outputs. I would call around to the diffrrent doubler kits makers and ask if they make one where you can use a ford 205 with a chevy 203 range box

[mark]

thanks for the info!

[noflyzone]

Everytime I read this thread it gets more complicated. I want to do the doubler behind my 727 but it sounds like now I have to swap parts off of a dodge 727 to start with. might as well go Black Box or Klune or just go atlas and be done with it.

[orangecherokee]

if you've got the money I would. doublers are for folks on the cheap.

[noflyzone]

As broke as we are right now everything is just a dream anyway.

[Elliott]

is it somehow possible to adapt 2 cases so that i can get a driver side drop?im currently running a t 400 and a 205.just wodering if i could mix things up somehow to get a dr side drop so i can use a hp ford dana 60 with my current chevy setup.

NW Fab can match it up for you. Any 203 with any 205 and they probably have other combos.

I finally got mine clocked where I need it. Kind of a bugger to do the clocking when it's installed on a rig but the 3" body lift made things easier. I have it so everything.... everything including the crossmember stuffs up under the frame and I have a cutout to drop the front driveline down through the crossmember.

I don't know about this being cheap, cheaper probably. Where is the challenge of just buying something in a box that takes six bolts to attach? Besides, with the 203/205 you have two places to run a PTO off of.

[bigun]

I'll be running a Dodge 203 and a Ford 205 in Crom soon. I got the adaptor from http://www.sumnermachine.com John and his wife were really nice and he started on it as soon as I called, so that when I made the second payment to him he had it boxed and ready to ship!

[Elliott]

Glad he's back in gear...


I've got a TH400/203 and a '90 NP205 listed in the forsale section if anyone is interested, also up on ebay. I can work it to piecemeal it depending on what someone might need.

[Elliott]

I've updated all the dead pic links in my posts. Now, who's put a GM NV4500 to a 203 range box?

I've mated one to a GM six bolt NP205 with some clearancing and a short input (as posted in my dually thread at: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=83955 ) so wouldn't this work the same as how I studded the GM NP203 case to match up with the Ford NP435 I did earlier?

[CutterN55]

I'm on my way...I just got my NP435 and 205 today! Will mess with doing the doubler later. I just want to get this manual in there and funtional for a while. Having a 6.68:1 will be like having a doubler on current trans.