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View Full Version : Problem: torque converter to flexplate bolts...HELP!


billyrb
01-31-2003, 09:54 AM
Alright, I am finally getting around to working on my wag again. I have the motor/tranny/xfer back in, but I haven't had a chance to install the torque converter to flexplate bolts. Well, today I went to install them....I got under the wag, and put a socket wrench on the crankpulley bolt....I turned it in order to get the bolt holes of the flex plate to align with the bolt holes of the torque converter....well, only one problem: the torque converter and flex plate are turning together! I can't get one to rotate without the other......this means that I can't get the bolt holes aligned to install the bolts. I tried to get to the torque converter so I could rotate it by itself, but I can't find any place to get a screwdriver to catch.....I am stumped, and need some advice.

Now, having said that, I know that if I unbolt the tranny mount, loosen the bolts around the bellhousing, and use a jack to shift things around, I can probably do what I need to....but, that would also kill the better part of a day to do all that, get it all re-aligned, and re-tighten everything down. Is there anything else I can do?????

gsmikie
01-31-2003, 10:05 AM
so its a 727 the problem is the weight on the converter wont let the converter spin it hits the flex plate lobes you can loosen the bellhousing bolts almost all the way out and pry (stick) 2 screwdrivers between the bellhousing and the block this will give you enough room to turn the converter this is why i always spray paint the last bolt/converter/flex pleat before i remove the engine or trans so i can line it up on install

billyrb
01-31-2003, 10:59 AM
Mikie, muchas gracias. This is what I was figuring would have to be done. I was hoping for the 'lazy-mans' approach, but I guess I just have to bite the bullet, and do it right. Ah well, at least it will be easier for the next jeep rebuild I do! Thanks.

Rande
01-31-2003, 11:38 AM
I just did mine also. The torque converter spun freely until the mounting boss on the converter hit the flexplate weight. It would not get past the weight. If you cannot turn the converter at all, you have a problem. With the torque converter pushed up against the flexplate, you don't have the torque converter seated properly on the transmission input shaft. With the torque converter improperly seated and the tranny to engine bolts used the tighten the bellhousing up to the engine, you may have damaged your tranny front pump.

The torque converter should seat on the tranny input shaft, the engine and bellhousing should fit right up to each other, and the torque converter should spin freely until the mounting boss of one of the bolts hits the flexplate weight. The torque converter should then spin freely the other way until another mounting boss hits the flexplate weight.

My concern is your saying you can't spin the torque converter at all. That spells trouble. Without the torque converter seated correctly, it usually pushes part of the input shaft into the front pump when the tranny-engine bolts are tightened up. The front pump gets damaged and gives up the ghost in short order. That means a complete tranny rebuild.

Could it be that when you put the engine and tranny together, one of the mounting bosses on the torque converter aligned with the flexplate weight? If that happened, there would be pressure between the flexplate and the torque converter. I reached in where the starter goes and was able to easily spin the torque converter with my finger.

[ January 31, 2003, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Rande ]

billyrb
01-31-2003, 11:46 AM
Rande, thanks for the input. I had the tranny rebuild from top to bottom, and this is a new hand-built custom torque converter. When I installed it, I made sure the converter was as far back against the tranny as it would go. Then, like a fool, I tightened all bellhousing bolts before checking to make sure the torque converter would spin freely. I very well may have the mounting boss on the converter lined up perfectly with the flywheel weight. Either way, I'll find out tomorrow when I start disassembling things to find out the problem. As for the converter spinning freely, that is what I thought (but couldn't remember, as the last engine I completely r&r was over 12 years ago). I really hope I didn't royally screw things up. If I did, I guess I will find out quickly. Thankfully, the guy who built my tranny is a good bud, and I have used him for many years, and referred tons of work his way.....so, worst case scenario, I can get another tranny & have him build it for less money. But, I will hope for the best. I may ask for a little more help once I figure out what happened tomorrow. Thanks again.

Crazy_Jeepman
01-31-2003, 11:50 AM
The TF727 T/C has an indexed bolt patern. only one position will all the bolts line up. Lineing up ONE bolt hole will not work. Sucks to find that out after you get it put together.

Rande
01-31-2003, 11:54 AM
Just realize, that when I say "spin freely". I mean until one of the mounting bosses hits the flexplate weight. You will not be able to spin the torque converter araound and around. I had to loosen the bolts and seperate the tranny and engine about 1/2 inch to get the mounting boss to pass the weight.

I learnt my lesson. Mark the danged thing.

billyrb
01-31-2003, 11:56 AM
I think I have just learned my lesson, and hopefully won't make the same mistake twice. Guys, as always, thanks for being there to give input, advice, and a fresh view on things!

Btw, whomever designed that indexed bolt pattern needs to have the shizzit smacked out of them! I had that on one of my old hot rods years ago, and went through that problem, not once, not twice, but three times before I learned! Wait, maybe I should have the shizzit smacked out of me!

mechanic58
01-31-2003, 10:21 PM
I'VE HAD THIS HAPPEN TO ME AND I ALMOST SET MY WAG ON FIRE!! Fortunately you can (with a little luck) take a long screwdriver and pry the flexplate forward just enough to get the weldnuts on the torque converter to slip past the balance weight on your flexplate. What a pain in the butt this is. I had no idea before I started on mine that there was ONE bolt that was offset by about 1 degree. WHO COMES UP WITH THIS KINDA STUFF ANYWAY? Good luck.

mechanic58
01-31-2003, 10:23 PM
P.S. Bolting up my torque converter was the LAST thing I had to do after my new engine install...I even had the HOOD back on already. I wasn't about to unbolt the bellhousing and wrestle the engine away from the tranny.

billyrb
02-01-2003, 01:55 AM
I already tried to pry mine apart, and it's just too tight to move. So, this morning I am going to loosen everything, and kill most of the day back tracking. Ah well, at least I'll know it's being done right....

Sitting Bull
02-01-2003, 03:14 AM
Dude...tried to call and explain this to you..your phone sux. :(

mechanic58
02-01-2003, 05:59 AM
Well...good luck man....I pried mine apart. But I think I was just holdin my mouth right. :)

billyrb
02-01-2003, 07:52 AM
Brad, yeah, my phone sucks. The wifes computer's modem likes to automatically block the line when we aren't even using the darn thing. Anywho, I HAVE RESOLUTION!!!!!

I had to loosen every bellhousing bolt and back each out at least 1/2-3/4".....then, I had to remove the transmission mount bolts, jack up the xfercase/tranny, and jimmy everything backwards. At that point, I reached in from the starter opening, and could turn the torque converter with my hand. Then, I re-tightened the 2 lowest tranny bolts, while leaving the others loose. Then, I could still turn the converter by hand, and lined up the first two bolt holes. Lucky for me, they turned out to be the correct holes, and all converter bolt holes lined up on the first try. Got em' all torqued as required, all bellhousing bolts back tight, tranny mount bolts installed and tight, inspection plate bolted up, starter bolted up, and both driveshafts re-installed! Man, today has turned out to be WAY more productive than I thought!

Now it's time to get a drink, sit on the couch, and take a nap!

Ralph
02-01-2003, 11:47 AM
Hmm, so it's the WIFE now?!!!

Congratulations, Ryan!

I bet as soon as he got the ring on the finger she froze up on you, didn't she? You probably thought as soon as you got married you would have it all your way forever, but weren't aware that she had it firmly in her mind...

...that she would never help you work on your Jeep again!

billyrb
02-01-2003, 02:24 PM
Ralph, honestly, she isn't the wife yet....haven't even bought the ring. But, I can say, she will always help me work on it, albeit begrudgingly.......she knows my addiction, and although she doesn't "get it", she goes along. Actually, it's kind of nice....she keeps my feet on the ground rather than in the clouds....I see a jeep, and think "must buy....must buy"....then she says, "remember the one we saw 2 weeks ago that was blue with the faded paint? That one was much nicer, and a better price".....I love that about her.