Ping?! What is PING?!

[Snakeyes_Tx]

This is the 3rd time I've asked this question.... so now, I'll ask for something else...

Will someone PLEASE record this "pinging" sound you all talk about? I've had *4* 360's and I've never experienced this "ping" thing ???

My 83 Wag's 360/727 seems to make a noise which I suspect is the Transmission's front pump bearing going south, but it goes away once it's all warmed up... maybe this really is this "ping" you guys talk about instead? I'd like to hear what this noise is so I can compare it to the noise I can't explain in my own situation! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

Well, that sounds like another mythical noise, lifter tap. So let's get someone to go for the definitive answer. A quart of Quadratrac fluid to the FSJeeper who can truly describe the sounds!!!!!!! And what sounds are normal for a engine? If I listen to my Toyota, then my J-10, I feel awful confused about normal noises. I assume my newish toyota is making normal noises, but the Jeep always seems to be strong and running well with good pressure and such. Should I expect to hear any rythmic noises from the valve cover area? Are lifters and valves silent in proper operation? I think my lack of experience with such things has made me paranoid.

Thanks,

Daniel

[Veepster]

vlave train will always make some type of noise...and then it depends on solid lifters vs hydraulic, overhead cam, roller rockers vs non roller rockers....it all depends on the type of engine, usage, age...etc......if you want to hear some horrible sounding valve train you should hear the Veepster after a few passes down the 1/4 mile on NOS!!.....and it is normal for that configuration..................and I know I that I was absolutely no help in answering the question!

[J4GRAND]

I've got the perfect description for SE- Pinging sounds like a PO'd rattler trapped in a cave and getting poked by a stick. If you have ever been in a vehicle that is on the verge of overheating, you've heard pinging. It's the clattering that is caused by the fuel/air mixture burning before it's supposed to. In aviation we describe this condition as pre-ignition. In addition to high engine temps, pinging can be caused by cheap gas or timing problems. Hope this clears things up.

[Bigums]

The best way I've heard pinging described is it sounds like small marbles banging around in the combustion chamber. It's usually only a problem under load.

Any other descriptions out there?

[bruno89]

When I first started working on cars I too often wondered what pinging was when I had an auto trasn car. I never could hear anything. But when I got my truck which is new but has a stick I could hear it. When I would be in say fourth gear trying to climb a hill at about 30 or so and really stepp on the gas, of course the engine doesn't move faster right away but there is more fuel being injected into it. So under that load it would ping, detonate, have pre-ignition or what ever you want to call it. It really sounds like something is loose and rattling around in the engine. If i am correct in my internal combustion theory what in kind of does is act like a diesle engine and fire before the spark hits the fuel. This can be solved by better gas, less compression, or easing the load on the engine. I hope this helps.

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Hmm... judging from the "Marble in the combustion chamber" description.. then I'd have to say my 360 "pings" then! I used to watch these old re-runs of the A-Team and you'd see this old busted Cadillac come flying around the corner, and a hubcap would come spinning off, and you'd hear this really strange chattering noise as the car accelerated. I bet that's the same thing huh?

Funny thing is, once my rig gets warmed up, the noise goes away! It generally makes the noise when the transmission doesn't downshift back to 1st when I slow down to turn a corner and I'm only goind like 10mph in 2nd gear.

So I guess now I have to figger out how to eliminate it. :D

[Unknown Jeep]

OK guys noise tech 101... kinda
Noses can be classified in a few areas... you must find what conditions they happen under.
Idle....Cold or hot, or both
Moving... cold, hot, slow speed or moving...Drive train or motor. load or no load.
since we are talking motor here we will forget drive train stuff.
Define....
Cold motor rattle... lifters and rods are the best places to look for these. Check oil (pray for lifters)Check oil pressure.
hot motor rattle... check oil/Change oil... if still rattles check see cold motor rattle
Ping... to Test for ping... you think you hear ping... slowly apply accelirator if sound gets louder faster then the RPMs come up and it is a REAL dog.. you might have Ping. almost sounds like someone is inside your motor with a ballpeen on speed. a solid but variable Diesel type noise.

How to find the Morning noise AS I call it...
Grab the wife's favorite broom, unscrew the bushy part, now you have a stick. Start the motor and use the stick as a probe, use your ear against the stick. move the stick from place to place on the motor. near the valve cover you will hear a small clater clater sound.. those are the valves and the rockers going... put it near the block near but not on the water pump you should hear the cam going roar roar roar... on the water pump you will hear a ballbearing being rolled down a driveway sound. place the stick on the motor mount area of the block... you should hear a Swishy ball bearing down the driveway.... crawl under the beast place the stick near the tranny pan/bell housing area.. I can't remember what it sounds like, but you will know if that is the noise you hear in the morning.... look for a much louder sound like what you are looking for.. compair all the noises to what you think is going bad and the noise you hear... Don't forget to check the oil pump too...

Make sure you put the broom back with grit/goo/slime and anything else you got all over it. If you are real brave you will keep it dirty and in two parts in the Garage. that way the wife will feel your pain about her broom as much as your motor going south. they you will feel the pain of sleeping on the living room floor for the next two weeks.

Troy
Elf In Tampa
PS, do I really get the QT fluid now???

:confused:

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

Send me an address, and we'll see what I can do. :D

Daniel

[andy d]

SE did you ever have an engine run on after the key was shutdown? thas pre ignition or pinging caused by a hot mill and a high idle. accelleration under a load will cause it,so will toomuch advance. its possible to burn a piston AMHIK

[WillyPete]

i've never had pinging from my wag. the best way i can think of describing pinging is this:

it sounds like sheetmetal cooling down quickly, but inside the cylinders and really loud. my stepmom's 4 cyl toy truck made that noise a few times. she *insisted* that it could make a 90 mile trip through tennessee hills with a washer/dryer combo in the bed :eek:

[Dan]

I think the marbles describe it best. And it sounds like Snakeyes has that problem. If your rig isn't downshifting and your running low rpm's around the corner, then you'd probably hear it. From my understanding, the air-fuel mixture in the cylinder is igniting before the piston is at the right position which forces the piston to slightly interrupt its forward motion on the crankshaft, which makes the pinging sound. This can obviously be hard on an enginge. I've seen pictures of cylinders with holes burnt in them because of pre-ignition. Besides engine load, it can also be caused by incorrect distributor timing, and an overheated engine.

BTW- If you follow UnkownJeep's advice of sticking a stick in your ear and listening to the different engine sounds, then you better be **** sure not to get it caught in the belts or fan or it will rip your ear off!! Especially when your checking the water pump! Good idea though, I've not heard of that one.

Hey, if you want to hear the ping for yourself, maybe you could just severly retard the ignition timing on the distributor. If you do it far enough, I would think that you should be able to get an idea of the sound at idle.

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Dan ]

[jeepbob]

First off, retarding the igntion timing is how to get rid of "ping", "pre-ignition", "knock", or "detonation". If you wand to hear it, ADVANCE the timing. Ping can be caused by several things, too much advance, too much compression, too low of octane of gas, carbon deposits in the combustion chamber, too hot of spark plug, a lean condition, overheating, a lack of EGR valve or system, or any combo of the above. I would try running better gas (premium) as AMC motors like the little extra advance in timing. The next step would be to back off the timing a little unless you have removed your EGR, in which case you will have to enrichen the carb to cool the combustion.
BTW lifter noise will sound like a tapping that is at 1/2 engine speed and will increase and decrease frequency as the rpm's go up and down.

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: jeepbob ]

[Dan]

Yes, of course advancing the timing, not retarding the timing. I must have been in "retard" mode there.

[Snakeyes_Tx]

I'm going to retard the timing a little, I have a feeling that'll get rid of my miss in high idle too. I turn the distributor clockwise to do this, right?

[newbie]

Snake,

First thing I would do is check the plugs. You've said you need to regap them anyway...If they look burnt or chalky white, then you need a cooler plug. Also try retarding the timing slightly..

[Joe H.]

JeepBob--how much of an ordeal is it to replace lifters? I've got a rattle that I thought was pinging at first, but now realize it's lifter noise. Since I've moved to an apartment, my shop/favorite tree is no more <sniff!> and I no longer have my 'backup' FSJ <double sniff! and sob>

[Careful34]

I have bad ping under load. After reading JeepBob's I going to check the timing. I was setting it by ear!

[Ralph]

Ping?! What is ping?!

That's the season that precedes "tumma" in a land of hairlips!

[ September 22, 2001: Message edited by: Ralph ]

[Snakeyes_Tx]

I've noticed driving around that Toyota's ping a lot more than any other vehicle I've come across...

Timing... retard the timing.. which direction do you turn the cap?

[<millerlo>]

You've mentioned "too hot a plug", what would a cooler plug (#) for a 360 cid, say Champ. or A/C be?

[Michael]

You did the TFI correct? Have you regapped the plugs? I had the same ping prior to gapping my plugs. My gas mileage was not affected though. When I pulled my plugs they were not in good shape. Signs of preignition. I did not have that sound prior to the TFI upgrade. Replaced the plugs and backed of the timing. Runs great and no "ping" or "tap" I would call it. Mine too went away once it warmed up and came back under load.

[2jeeps]

Ping --- well, it is the sound you hear when a Texan slaps his forhead with the palm of his hand. In Minnesota this action proiduces a dull thud and in South Dakota where I live it produces a hollow sound!!

[Careful34]

Finally got around to checking the timing (had to get a new timing light). Was way too advanced. Past 15 degrees. Corrected it and what a difference! Even accelerating up a fairly steep hill: No trace of Ping!

Thanks Jeepbob!