Chevy LT1 in Cherokee

[M/Z]

Any one tried this combo? I saw a LT1 corvette engine with harness and computer for sale at local junk yard. It runs and would probably be quite a power improvement over my 360. Being that I have a GM tranny, I wonder how difficult an istallation it would be?

[JeepFreak]

Pretty easy to do since the LT1 is probably one of the most swapped motors around. The obvious things would be an O2 sesnor, larger radiator, and new Chevy motor mounts. Then you will have to see if the motor will need to be moved forward or back. If it doesn't fit where the 360 did you may have to relocate the trans mount. What is an LT1 going for with the ECM and harness these days?

[M/Z]

JeepFreak, they want $1450 for it. A rebuild for my AMC is just about the same.

[K-Centre]

Mark - I'm sure you already have thought of this but if your 77 Chero is stock and has the Turbo 400, remember that it is the AMC bolt pattern and not a Chevy pattern. Some type of adapter or new tranny would be required.

Sounds like a good swap and a pretty good price if the engine is in good shape.

[M/Z]

Yes, I am aware that it has the AMC bolt pattern and I think Advanced Adapters has something to deal with that. I guess my main concern is how big of a project would this be? could my local engine shop do the R&R without it running into mega $$ and could it be accomplished in a time frame similar to having the stock engine rebuilt? All good questions that are probably best answered by the engine shop. Anyway, it seems like a viable swap....I'll be doing some research on this one.

[Simontrips]

I have a good buddy in Alabama who did this swap to his CJ.He had to get a Painless wiring harness, and have a chip burned for the computer .It is an expensive swap unless you have the resources and can do a lot of the work yourself .(Painless wiring is a manufacturer who builds wiring harnesses)

[JeepFreak]

Be careful of what year LT1 it is. Some of the newer ones need a speed sensor and if an Auto tranny may have to have tranny feedback to make the ECM work right. Early models with just a speed sensor on the output shaft of the tranny can be easily fooled into thinking the right tranny is present. The speed sensor on the LT1 is nothing like those on TBI injected engines. The TBI speed sensor only controlled the speedo.

[JeepFreak]

Simon has a good point. I think painless makes various fixes for retro fitting the LT1

[Simontrips]

The Painless kit was under $4oo and it was really pretty simple he says.He has a buddy who works at the Harley Test facility in Talladega Al.(thats his hometown)program his computer and whatever had to be done there,but you can also purchase this chip.There was a lot of fine tuning but man what a rush to ride in. A CJ with an LT-1 a 111 inch wheelbase and dana 60`s locked up front and rear with 44in.ground hawgs.We went through a partially dried up lakebed and was throwing 4 rooster tails 50 ft in the air with no top over us ,we were slammed with mud ........That was the test run. What a RUSH!!!!

[Stolen76]

If it's the LT1 that requires the speed sensor in the tranny, you can get an Autometer speedo adapter that will screw right onto the t-case and send the signal to the ecu. Nordskog also makes one, they're about $30. When you get your chip burned you'll have to be able to tell him how many pulses per mile it puts out. I think they put instructions in teh kit for that.

[ironroad29]

lt1's don't use a chip they have to be programed from the test port.

[billyrb]

Look for a long-term series of articles on this to appear in FSJ Magazine. I'm in the process of this swap now and will provide instructions, tips, tricks and what is needed. The first article should run in the next issue (summer).

[ironroad29]

i'm thinking of going lt1 sm 465 and not sure what t case yet when the 360 in my new wag goes out to pasture

[FSJnovice]

why not rebuild a TH400 and use the output shaft from the amc one that way good tranny with upgrades and LT1 together and not have to bother with the trans adapter, just use the sensor and go from there.

[ironroad29]

why would i need an adapter for a 465,they came in blazers and stuff

[mdill9]

Originally posted by M/Z:
Yes, I am aware that it has the AMC bolt pattern and I think Advanced Adapters has something to deal with that. I guess my main concern is how big of a project would this be? could my local engine shop do the R&R without it running into mega $$ and could it be accomplished in a time frame similar to having the stock engine rebuilt? All good questions that are probably best answered by the engine shop. Anyway, it seems like a viable swap....I'll be doing some research on this one.I would say no way ! It takes about 12 hours or
so of labor to R&R your 360, without setting up
new mounts, changing the exhaust, wiring, tranny
adaption, radiator finding all the little bits
and peices to make it all play together, best
guess would be in the 50-60 hours of labor plus
the cost of new exhaust, wiring, mounts, adapters, radiator ..

Not a real economical proposition if you are not
supplying the labor and building your own custom
parts.

Not many a swap works out from a economic point
of view, do the swap if you enjoy working on the
rig or have deep pockets, otherwise rebuild what
is there.

BTW I don't think most shops will quote a engine
swap, there are to many unknowns, if I was to
quote one it would be pure time and materials,
with enough up front $'s to cover costs so that
when the customer figured out that it was too
expencive I would not be stuck with a bunch of
parts in a incomplete car that has little market
value.

Mike D.

[War Wagon]

Thats a good price on that LT-1, the corvettes had 4 bolt mains while the F bodys had 2 bolt mains. At the end of LT-1 production some 4 bolt main blocks made it into a few f bodys. If I did this swap I would get a Chevy 400 turbo and put the AMC 400 turbo output shaft in it, there for no adapters needed.

I think FSJeeper had done this swap and added a supercharger as well, maybe he will chime in.

Good luck,
Jim

[ March 10, 2005, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: War Wagon ]

[Towtruck]

I swapped an LT1 into a foreign car (Bitter SC) a couple years ago. The folks at JTR (Jags That Run)/Stealth conversions (same people) sell a great swap book that covers the various FI Chevy motors and transmission combinations from the L-98 through the LS series. Believe they also have a specific guide book for the CJ series. Anyway, main guide book is pretty good. I selected the '93 F body combo because it used a TV cable transmission (last year before conversion from 700R4 to 4L60E electronic trans) and because I wanted speed density versus MAF (S/D is a little less efficient, but a little easier to swap). By the way, you don't have to reprogram the fuel control (at least on the 92-93 F body engines) if you get the PASS KEY antitheft computer box along with the companion ignition key...so you can measure the resistance value in the key (and then wire the proper resistor into the PASSKEY). An optional approach is to purchase the small electronic device (available in the hotrod world) that will send the proper square wave signal to the fuel control and fool it into thinking the PASSKEY is still there...think it's about $40. But I have to agree with the folks who point out that swaps are never as inexpensive as they appear. I've done three on various cars, and they nickel/dime you to death. I can send you an article on my LT1 swap if you like...points out all the hidden pitfalls and costs.

[JPSwapMohn]

I am in process of this swap at the moment as well. I have the engine out of 94 9C1 caprice (cop car). They don't have the passkey, so no issues there. I bought the car in Portland for $900 and drove it back to Boise. Stripped it, and it went to the recycle bin last saturday. I kept everything that I could possibly need and more from the car. THe idea is to make the ECM think it is still in the car it came out of. Also, go to PCMForLess.com. They offer reprogramming for these engines at a reasonable price. Can send them your chips, or they will build your program (based on tire size, engine mods, etc.) and email it to you. You will have to get the cable needed to hook your pc to the car's ADLC plug (which you will have to build into your new vehicle) The 93-94 LT1 uses 12-pin while I think the 95-96 uses 16pin. Either way, only 4 or 5 of the wires are necessary.
I am still struggling with which exhaust and radiator to order.
1. I would love a BeCool or such aluminum job, but the cost is hard to take. I am leaning toward the www.extremeradiator.com (http://www.extremeradiator.com) conversion radiator. It is not aluminum, but is a bolt in and looks like the radiator currently in the wagon (I am pretty sure it is not stock).
2. Exhaust is probably going to be headers for a Chevy truck, unless I find a better choice. To remove stock fuel tank or not is still in the air. I have a poly tank to go in back that is designed for TPI (remember, higher fuel pressure...do not try to use your stock fuel system!). I have not decided whether to keep the stock tank in as a feeder to the new tank. Having 45+ gal. of capacity might be nice at times but rig will be better balances and dual exhaust easier without the stock tank. Still in the air on this. I need to spend some time looking under the rig to make my final decision. Either way, I have to run dual cats and need the O2 bungs on both sides. Also will need the EGR line. I have to have all the emmissions stuff. Ceramic coating would be a plus..
This is a slow project for me, but I only get one (or 1/2 of one) day a weekend to play in the garage. I burnt a lot of time stripping parts off the car and selling them to finance parts for the jeep.
I got a hell of a deal on the car, and the engine must have been swapped at some point since I have the 95+ vented opti-spark, etc. I found no reason to rebuild, so I am not going to do that right now.
Money.. yes, this will cost some.
$500+ -4L60E adapter/short shaft and the new motor mounts from Novak.
$500 -I had "my guy" (i.e., local, well proven independent mechanic) go through the tranny, beef up a bit and put in the adapter stuff.
$300-700 -Radiator, depending on how you go about it
$200 -I am estimating on fuel system stuff
$??? -exhaust system (including headers, but using cats from the car)
$??? -I am having a professional weld in the motor mounts once I have everything mocked up. Not taking any chances with my VERY novice abilities
$??? -As was said above, you always have to expect little things to come up.
----------------------------
I am estimating/planning to have about $3000 or so into this swap. I am recovering about $750 or so of that from sale of parts from the car and the jeep.
I like to play, and this is my new hobby, so I am not in a rush. I have plenty of transportation and an understanding wife (she got the Jag, I got the "project"..8^). If you are in a hurry, you will want to line everything up ahead of time.
BTW, "my guy" offered to do the swap in this down time (to fill any lulls in business) at a reduced rate. Estimate was $2000 with understanding that there would be expected "unexpecteds" and that did not include major parts. This is a very good price, but I want to see how far I can get on my own....with you folks and those on the impalass forums' as resources.
Did I really type all that?

[JPSwapMohn]

Failed to mention...BOOKS! You will need books. I bought the 3000+ page GM service manuals for the car I took the engine out of (found for $35). Also bought the JTR manual mentioned by TowTruck. It is very helpful, but not designed to walk you through everything you need for the swap. I also have the Haynes for the wagon and a book on LT1 rebuild and tuning. I have used the GM manuals the most, but I have not yet gotten to the point where I am trying to meld the GM with the AMC..
See, there is a lot to these projects, and you want to try to do your homework ahead of time. Some things (like exhaust) will have to wait until you get into the project and see what will fit.
bm

[crooked1]

What year is the engine? I swapped in a '94 into my cj. The wire harness was up in the $800 range from Painless. I ended up buying a '93 ecm ($100)and a '93 harness from Painless ($300) to save some money on the swap. Mine was a ground up project, so it was easy to do the swap on a rolling chassis. I already budjeted new exaust, ect...

[JPSwapMohn]

Dallas, NC, huh? I am originally from Eastern NC. Graduated from NC State 10 years ago..

The car was a 94, but I think I ended up with a 95 engine as the optispark is vented and the timeing cover and all that match the 95, not the 94. It is possible the engine was rebuild as some point and upgraded with a 95 cam and such to allow for the vented opti, etc.

I am using the stock wiring harness from the car. There are only about 3 wires in the engine harness that would not be needed if I understand correctly. I am going to run the a/c and all that from the car (upgraded a/c! yahoo!), just tie it into the GW's lines. Plan is to use the car's p/s pump and mod lines to connect to the jeep steeering box. Not 100% sure there aren't some lines out there that will work. Those are some of the details I have not lined out as of yet.
I looked at the Painless, and it did look tempting, but decided I could cut that $300 out of my budget.
Did you use a LT1 out of a F-body or a B-body? (Aluminum heads or iron heads?) I assume you used the 93 PCM out of an F-body. The 93 B-body (caprice, roadmaster, etc) were throttle body. Did you run into any significant snags? I intend to take the front end off the GW so as to protect the fenders and all that, so there will be plenty of room.
BTW, what type of headers/exhaust did you use? I am still trying to decide on that..

[Elliott]

Originally posted by Mark Zinns:
I saw a LT1 corvette engine with harness and computer for sale at local junk yard. It runs and would probably be quite a power improvement over my 360.Just because it came out of a Corvette I wouldn't assume that. A cheap performer manifold, cam and 4bbl wakes a 360 up pretty good and the stock AMC heads will likely out flow what ever that GM has on it... stock or aftermarket.

[ March 15, 2005, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

[billyrb]

Oh lord, not this again......

[mdill]

I'll get this kicked off smile.gif

Who in their right mind would put a crappy Chevy
engine in a FSJ ? , The only thing worse is someone
who would put a Getto cruser Caddy engine in one.

Mike D.

[89grand]

I'm all for keeping Jeeps all Jeep, but there ain't know f'ing way a 4bbl intake, 4bbl carb and a cam on an AMC 360 is going to get it to produce more power than a stock LT1.

I wish it were true, but I'm sure it's not.

[Elliott]

Well...
Here's your bad boy specs (from http://www.nypdcaprice.20fr.com/about.html):

Model: LT1 Corvette engine
Displacement: 350ci (5.7L)
Horsepower: 300hp est.
Torque: 350ft-lbs est.
Or according to http://www.grandsportregistry.com/lt1vslt4.htm
With a factory compression of 10.4 (to the AMC's 8.5) the LT1 put out:
300 hp & 340 ft/lbs

Simply jacking the AMC's compression to match the LT1 would at least match the LT1's torque.
The stock 360 with iron manifold and 4bbl was rated at 295ft/lbs and you don't think a performer manifold, new 4bbl, cammed and balanced isn't going to out do that LT1? OK, I'll let it go here as I only wanted to point out that because it came in a Vet that does 153mph it doesn't mean it's better then a 30 year old AMC.
If you want a performance 350, that's not a bad price for the one mentioned... spend a lil more $$$ and stroke it to a respectable 383 if you want something truely competitive. I had the Interceptor in an Silverado 4x4, about the same specs... big deal in my opinion, it's just a 350.

[ March 17, 2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

[The Anti-Chrysler]

Elliott, you're doing as many do and looking at PEAK numbers, which can be very misleading.

Like Steve said, you're not in any way going to touch the powerband of a fuel injected efficient-breathing motor like the LT1. I have a LT1 in a Camaro and it pulls well right from off idle right up nearing 6000rpm, and its stock. There is no way you are going to get that kind of powerband with a carb&cam on a 360.

What people do need to keep in mind is that with a motor like the LT1 which is setup for sports cars, don't forget the tall gearing to take advantage of that broad rev range.

[waggin'ear]

HOLY 3 YEAR OLD THREAD BATMAN!

[ironroad29]

thanks ya ,thank ya very much ...lol see this is what you get when you use the search key

[mdill9]

Originally posted by 89grand:
I'm all for keeping Jeeps all Jeep, but there ain't know f'ing way a 4bbl intake, 4bbl carb and a cam on an AMC 360 is going to get it to produce more power than a stock LT1.

I wish it were true, but I'm sure it's not.Oh Yeah, my stock AMC engine will kick the crap
out of any of them other dinasour V8's !!

Mike D.

[ohioj20]

Hey now! I put a "crappy Chevy" 6.2 Diesel in my J20 and am currently working on one in my GW

[mdill9]

I seriously hope no one is taking the last 15
or so posts of this thead as anything but bull.

Mike D.

[JPSwapMohn]

Elliott, not sure what year 360 you have. My 88 is rated pretty weak, but I have to run the smog maze.

If I took the LT1 and the same things you are talking about doing to the 360, I would still be out ahead of you, and getting better gas mileage too.. which did have some sway on my decision. Camming, porting the mainfold and heads, using a more open intake (k&N or such) and a good header exhaust, the LT1 will easily climb the power and torque bands.

My decision was between a modern TPI engine or finding a 401 and building it. The 401 lost.

I took on the LT1 because I wanted to learn about the TPI stuff. I built a 455 for my 74 Buick convertible back in highschool. have not take on a motor since, jsut lack of time and interest. Now i have the interest..just little time.

I understand the purist side of this, but my goal is to make something close to a modern GW. I intend to make a few upgrades elsewhere in the interior and exterior as well. Those thing will have to wait for now.

Sorry about digging the old post, but I am in the middle of this right now, and would appreciate any real advice on the project.
"Don't Do it!" doesn't count..

[Elliott]

It's really not about being a purist thing to me, it's about comparing actual stats/numbers and cost for what you get. I'm not saying don't do it at all. Just don't think that the LT1 is going to give you more for less.
Those specs on the 360 were for the 4bbl version '73-'79.
The big thing the LT1 may have on the AMC isn't breathing, the heads flow about the same stock for stock, and it's not really the FI unless you are all about mileage, it boils down to the LT1's stock 10.4:1 -vs- the AMC's 8.5:1 stock. Remove that factor alone and I'd expect the older AMC would pull ahead, from idle to peak.
I can't really say much about the fuel injection producing a better power band. I never paid much attention to it as being useful since aircraft have been running for decades inverted on carbs and from what I remember, and that sure could have changed by now, fuel injection didn't match carbs for down low torque. Still hafta wonder since it seems most drag machines are running carbs today. But I don't really know what's showing on dynos for comparisons.
The LT1 is a fine motor, my 350 took a licking... but I've driven Mopar 400 & 440 Interceptors that I was much more impressed with. The LT1 is bling though, for whatever reason, maybe it's the serpentine belt. I think if you add it all up $ for $ on every cost that you just wouldn't be that impressed with what you don't gain, except mileage and looks.

[ March 17, 2005, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

[89grand]

Well, a mid-90's Corvette with an LT1 would run 0-60 in about 5 seconds. I wonder what it'd do with a 4bbl AMC 360 swapped in place of the LT1. :eek:

[The Anti-Chrysler]

Originally posted by 89grand:
Well, a mid-90's Corvette with an LT1 would run 0-60 in about 5 seconds. I wonder what it'd do with a 4bbl AMC 360 swapped in place of the LT1. :eek: :D :D :D

The thing that makes the LT1 a reality for alot of us is that sure you can build a good 360, but it's never going to pass smog. I know I sure as heck couldn't run one here in CT on anything newer than 25 years old.

[Willie G]

Originally posted by mdill:
I'll get this kicked off smile.gif

Who in their right mind would put a crappy Chevy
engine in a FSJ ? , The only thing worse is someone
who would put a Getto cruser Caddy engine in one.

Mike D.Yup. I've looked at every reasonable replacement engine for my 360 and keep returning to the "overhaul it and forget it" scenario. The difference in cost buys a lot of hot rod parts with plenty left over.

smile.gif

[Carl Rasmussen]

Originally posted by billyrb:
Look for a long-term series of articles on this to appear in FSJ Magazine. I'm in the process of this swap now and will provide instructions, tips, tricks and what is needed. The first article should run in the next issue (summer).I did a Complete Chev TBI conversion there would not be a whole lot of difference. Email me if you have any questions.
I have a 350 TBI 4l60e Trans and a 241 Transfer case run great at 13.5 MPG with 4.56 and 35's I explained that in in the current Issue of FSJ MAG that my truck is in smile.gif

[ironroad29]

well i'm on my second 360 in 2 differant vehicles that have worn thrust bearings ,the old flywheel bolts on the cover sound when you accelerate ,i love amc engine ,...not i'm going caddy 500 this next winter