Wagoneer Modification

[cknight]

I am researching for a future project for my 82 wagoneer. Here's what I have:
82 wagoneer limited with 360/727 torque flite/ np208 tcase/ dana 44 front axle, amc20 rear axle. All stock.

What I want is simple in theory. I want a manual transmission and want to keep as much original equip as possible, especially the tcase.
questions:
1. can it be done(by a do it yourselfer in a home garge)?
2. did any wagoneers or chero's ever come with manual transmissions?
3. what options for tranny's do I have that will bolt up to my 360 and my t-case?
4. my 727 is in need of a rebuild. you know how much that can cost. is this a reasonable option as for as cost is concerned?
all help gretly appreciated.

[porkchop]

Welcome!! You ask allot of questions. Let me start by saying that want you want to accomplish is minor compared to things that have been done to there wags. In my case I took a stock '67 Wagoneer with a 327 T-85 three speed, Dana 20, D27 front and D44 rear and changed the whole drive train. I now have a 360 TH400, Quadratrac, and D44's front and rear with SOA and add-a-leafs to get a total of about 8-9" of lift.

I am not sure on the exact years of the Wags and chero that came with the manual but I do know that some years did comewith them, like I said mine had a T-85 three speed.

Last thing is that all of this can be done at home in your garage. I did mine between my garage and my driveway in a months time. To include the welding.

Have fun with it and go crazy. We are here to help and love doing so. I am sure you will get some good scoop from scotty, River Beast, Bob Barry, GM Killer and the few that live for this board (to include myself).

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'67/'79 Wagoneer mix
"Old Timer"
Body of a 33 year old
Heart and legs of a 21 year old.
Spirit of a 1 year old.
360,TH400,QT,D44's F&R
SOA 32X11.50's

"I regret that I have but only one paycheck to give to my Jeep."

[River Beast]

Welcome!!! This is the palce for your answers as Porkchop said.

Scotty can probably give you all you options on the tranny/t-case combos He seems to be a walking AllData CD for x-referencing the trannis and t-cases and many other areas as well.

As for trannies that will bolt up to your 360....hmmm....I think that is dependent on the year of the 360.....I have a TH400 and mine is a 78.....Scotty....where are you?!? http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/biggrin.gif

There are adapters you can buy for various options but they are pricey.

Most all work can be done at your home if you have the know-how and/or up to the challenge of the task at hand. Much of you are planning on doing has conceivably been done by someone here and can help you out along the way... from electrical quirks to suspensions to quick fixes and engine problems.

I'm sure you you find EVERYTHING you need here within the Forum filled with GREAT people willing to help out fellow FSJers

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Todd
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's (soon to be locked w/ 4.88's and 38x14.50's)
7" SOA conversion
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
My E-mail: spazz4life@yahoo.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

[Baker]

The best method if you're going to swap in a "stock" FSJ trans (or an I6-V8 swap, FWIW) is to buy an entire (possibly junked) truck that came with it originally, and swap all the related parts, using their location on the parts truck as a guide.

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Baker
'84 Grand Wagoneer 360,727,229, 44 & 20 (3.31s), 30x9.5, stock springs

[scotty]

the conversion is fairly easy,and you will find that all the holes that you need are allready in the frame-you just need to bolt it all up. as baker said-it makes it immensely easier to get a whole truck,or at least to personally be the one to pull everything. if the donor trans comes from another wag or chero,you can even take the driveshafts ad not have to have them modified.

how do you use your truck?do you want a durable trans with a granny gear for heavy towing,or serious off roading?or do you just prefer to shift your own gears?

if you want to keep your stock axles,the trannies that you could get in the 80 and up FSJs that would retain the driver side differential are: the T18a,the T176,and the T5. the t18a is by far the strongest,and has a 6.39 to 1 granny low gear. the t176 is a 4 speed that is reasonably strong,and the t5 is a 5 speed that im not rel sure of its durability.if im not mistaken,its an aluiminm case trans,so that prolly says something about something.the only xfer used behind a manual tranny is the 208.the t15a and t176 i am reasonably sure use the same 23 spline output as your 727,so stock xfer should bolt up.the t18a uses a 31 spline output,so you will need the 208 that comes with it-your stock one will not work unless you swap its input gear.

if you dont care about swapping axles as well,you could take any trans out of any year FSJ and swap in its corresponding axles.79 and earlier rigs had passenger side front diffs.from 72 to 79 you could a t15a which is a snycro 3 speed and reasonably strong for a 3 speed,or a t18/t18a. both would come with a dana 20 xfer.as long as the trnas that you choose is attached to an amc motor,you are in good shape.im not sure what specifically you would encounter prior to 72,and im not sure if youd wanna use something that old,anyway.the dana 20 is a completely different mounting system than the 80 and later new process cases,so you cannot swap in a 79 or earlier trans unless you also retain the dana 20 and swap in a passenger side front axle to match it.

you will need to get: trans,xfer case,driveshafts(front may or may not be sme,dep. on xfer),all the brackets that go with the trans mount(you can buy a new rubber mount,but youll need to get all the funky brackets to bolt it to your crossmember),the tranny shifter,xfer case shifter and linkage,the pedal assembly,the belcrank and brackets to attach it to the belhousing and frame,and the linkages that go from the pedal to the belcrank,and the belcrank to the clutch fork.lesse- i think thats about it.you can also swap the steering column if you care about your auto shifter still being on there. if the donor trans comes from a j truck,the rear driveshaft will be too long.in a pinch,this is better than being too short,as it is much cheaper to have them shortened,rather than lengthened. the truck and wag/chero are pretty much the same as far as mounting points and front shafts,so it doesnt really matter what it comes from.

a word on xfer case: again,it kinda depends on how you use your truck. the dana 20 is a stout,gear driven,cast iron case that you just dont hear about alot of people having trouble with. its only real disadvantage is its 2 to 1 low range,vs the 2.61 of the np 208. aftermarket low ranges as low as 4 to 1 are available,however, if this is important. the granny first helps make up the lack of low range on a t18/dana 20 combo-especially with a 360 that has plenty-o-torque.for off road or towing,i personally prefer the geardriven cases. the 208 is strong as aluminum cased,chain drive cases go,and has a decent low range. there is zero aftermarket cool stuff for a 208(no lower low range gears,twi stick shifter,etc.)

having said that,a word about swapping cj stuff: they use same engines,and will bolt up rith no problems.however,the cj wheel base is much shorter,and the trannies usually have something to space them outward so that the shifter ends up in the right spot.if you swap a cj tranny directly into a full size you could make it work,but the shifter will be under the dash,and require some modifications(maybe a monkey to sit there and shift for you). also the xfer case shifters are different from cj to sj.

doh-almost forgot: the flywheel you use must match the engine.i learned this recently from helpful folks here on the board.we swapped a t18a that originated behind a 360 into an xj cherokee with a 258.we used the t150 cj flywheel that came with the 258 and the t18a disk and pressure plate,and no vibes or problems.just FYI,its tricky to swap a 258 into an xj,and even tricky to swap a t18a into an xj and rig up mechanical clutch linkage!

whew. that was alot of typing.i hope i answered some ques that you had-let us know if theres anything else!



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future

[scotty]

i forgot the other ones on your origianl post. as far as the autos go,if you want to stick with the 208 and amc motor you can use a 727 or a 904.

if you want to swap your front and rear axles,you could swap in a th400 and bw quadra trac. if you want to do some tranny parts swapping,you could create an amc th400 that accepts a gm 205. youll still need to swap front ends,and i think thats beyond your original question.

expect anywhere from $400 to $600 if you pull the tranny yourself to be rebuilt. ive not had alot of trouble finding used 904s or 727s,so if you can get someone to gaurantee youre getting a good one.lots of thenm have burnt smelly brown fluid,so change it asap.this is mostly due to the fact that the torqueflight trannys dont fill the torque convertor in park(says the tranny guy that rebuilds them for me).the other big problem with them for 'wheeling is the stock vent behind the convertor. i plugged mine and put a fitting on top of the case.i also use a gm locking dipstick. can go into further detail ablut auto mods if ya like,but am alittle tired of typing for now...

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future

[This message has been edited by scotty (edited September 21, 2000).]