Sweet little breather dildo thing

[rockjeep44]

I've been looking for an alternative to running a breather hose for my hydraulic steering reservoir and I've finally found it.

http://rebelrockrunners.org/gallery/d/17253-1/DSC02374.JPG

It's an Arctic Cat case bladder (ie diff breather) and it just so happens to be perfect for use on a rockcrawler. It feels like it'll hold up to plenty of abuse and it's got quite a bit of expansion capability. It'll keep the crud out and the fluid in. Luckily there is an Arctic Cat dealer just a minute from where I work. The part number is 0402-147. Cost me $2.19 each. If I didn't already have breathers worked out on my diffs I'd run these babies and ditch the hose. Just thought I'd pass the tech along.

[mudslider]

so that works like the lil caps that came stock on the end of the vent hose that just wobbles around? if so how would it work for water ya think or would it be somewhat inaffective to water?

[rockjeep44]

No, this thing is completely sealed. It's corrugated though so it can expand and contract as needed. I love the fact that once this is installed you've got a totally sealed system. It's made for 4 wheelers and you know they go through all kinds of Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley. No more messing around with routing hose to a high enough location and then worrying that it still might leak in a rollover. Screw that.

[McRoth]

Cool! I'm gonna have to find a dealer around me now. Thanks for the tip!

[FSJeeper]

Cool! Is there a mailorder place for that?

[jode]

II'd run these babies and ditch the hose.

I never thought I'd live to see the day when you were talking about ditchin' your hoes...:D

Thanks for the tip on the breathers - those definitely look like a good solution.

[rockjeep44]

LOL Jode. I ditched all but one about a year ago on my wedding day ;)

Pascal, I've looked all over the net for a place to order these with no luck. Everything I find says "check your authorized Arctic Cat dealer" or something to that effect. There's gotta be someone else out there selling these or something similar. If you find anything let me know.

[BRUTUS]

That is a SWEET idea. I was dreading running all those hoes for my new axles... Looks like it will tuck in nicely on the 14bolt and still has a rib to protect it. I wonder if there is a smaller one out there? Like half size.

I think I will even run one of these on my NV4500!

[jode]

I wonder if there is a smaller one out there? Like half size.

You'll want bigger rather than smaller - otherwise, you run the risk of expanding all the air and blowing it off the nipple....or the opposite, or contracting all the air until it is totally compressed .and sucking air into your bearings.

If those things are designed to vent a small ATV's differential, imagine how much more volume there is on your trucks 14 bolt or transmission...

[robselina]

hey andrew, I think you've found a beer money maker. I'll take 4 at a 100% markup :thumbsup:

[BRUTUS]

You'll want bigger rather than smaller - otherwise, you run the risk of expanding all the air and blowing it off the nipple....or the opposite, or contracting all the air until it is totally compressed .and sucking air into your bearings.

If those things are designed to vent a small ATV's differential, imagine how much more volume there is on your trucks 14 bolt or transmission...

I really don't invision my truck driving more than 200 miles in a day EVER. I doubt that the air in the case would expand that much in a day. Considering that I live at 5,000 ft elevation, and wheel up to 12,000ft, the air density is considerably less than at sea level. FWIW I plan on running synthetic diff fluid from Royal Purple... I would like to think that will keep diff temps down.

[robselina]

brutus - you just answered your own question. Living at 5000' feet and wheeling at 12,000 ft will require a 10% volume change, maybe more. These won't work for you.

Believe me, I live at 4500' and work at 10,500' and you don't want to see what empty water bottles look like on the way down, or what potato chip bags do on the way up!

The volume expansion/contraction from the altitude change will dwarf any heat related expansion/contraction.

[rockjeep44]

hey andrew, I think you've found a beer money maker. I'll take 4 at a 100% markup :thumbsup:

Seriously? Cuz I'd be happy to have my dealer order as many as you guys want and I'll send them out for cost + ride. I pass by the dealer to and from work every day. They are definitely sweet.

[robselina]

Seriously? Cuz I'd be happy to have my dealer order as many as you guys want and I'll send them out for cost + ride. I pass by the dealer to and from work every day. They are definitely sweet.

coolness. Seriously, sign me up for 4 of them. Send me your paypal address (I assume you have one) and let me know what I owe you aside from a beer if we ever meet :alc:

[orangecherokee]

Dobosh, score me 2 and i'll pay up next time when i see you.

[ChiefTawny]

http://www.arcticcatonlineparts.com

Click on: Parts
then: Parts Look Up
then: Parts at the top left
then: enter Part # 0402-147

$1.95 each

[Merc69]

Looks like alot of people are going to have acordians on their rig...checking out the local Artic Cat dealer in the next couple of days.

Thanks for the idea.

[McRoth]

How does it attach to the diff?

[rockjeep44]

http://www.arcticcatonlineparts.com

Click on: Parts
then: Parts Look Up
then: Parts at the top left
then: enter Part # 0402-147

$1.95 each

Bookmarked!

Guess you guys are set. Let me know if there is any problem ordering or if they rip you on shipping. I can always go through my local dealer.

[BRUTUS]

brutus - you just answered your own question. Living at 5000' feet and wheeling at 12,000 ft will require a 10% volume change, maybe more. These won't work for you.

Believe me, I live at 4500' and work at 10,500' and you don't want to see what empty water bottles look like on the way down, or what potato chip bags do on the way up!

The volume expansion/contraction from the altitude change will dwarf any heat related expansion/contraction.

I still think they will work. The way I see it is that if you put a hose clamp on the connection... what CAN happen? under vacuum the end of the dildo thing hits the diff nipple and stops... under pressure the dildo thing expands to a baloon? Does it pop? I don't think it would. You are comparing apples to oranges with potato chip bag to plastic expansion dildo. A bottled water won't pop under vacuum or pressure and it isn't even designed to expand and contract like the dildo is. Regardless.. I am going to use them! Nothing ventured nothing gained... I mean they are under $2 each... why not? If it explodes.... who cares... back to old reliable vent tube!

WORST CASE, why not put a needle size hole in it? I have pulled my buddy's 14 bolt apart 2 times now and each time there is about a gallon of water in there because he had parked his truck in the river over the weekend without ANY vent tube! How much water would a pinhole allow... not much in comparison to nothing at all if you ask me.

[BRUTUS]

How does it attach to the diff?

There should be a vent port on the upper half (above oil line) near the pinion.

[McRoth]

I should have been more specific. I know about the port, I was wondering if it has a screw in fitting on it or if it fits over the screw in nipple that I've seen on some of them.

[BRUTUS]

I should have been more specific. I know about the port, I was wondering if it has a screw in fitting on it or if it fits over the screw in nipple that I've seen on some of them.

Both my axles have nipples... like the low pressure nipple on the PS pump or water line nipples. Like I said above... I will just use a small pipe clamp to attach.

[rockjeep44]

I still think they will work. The way I see it is that if you put a hose clamp on the connection... what CAN happen? under vacuum the end of the dildo thing hits the diff nipple and stops... under pressure the dildo thing expands to a baloon? Does it pop? I don't think it would. You are comparing apples to oranges with potato chip bag to plastic expansion dildo. A bottled water won't pop under vacuum or pressure and it isn't even designed to expand and contract like the dildo is. Regardless.. I am going to use them! Nothing ventured nothing gained... I mean they are under $2 each... why not? If it explodes.... who cares... back to old reliable vent tube!

I actually agree that you should try these because like you said, it's only two bucks. However, to answer your question of what could happen. You're right, it definitely won't pop or break. They feel pretty durable, not like a balloon or anything. But, if enough pressure builds up you could get a leaky axle seal. So, when you try them watch out for that.
-Andrew

[Little Red Wagon]

I still think they will work. The way I see it is that if you put a hose clamp on the connection... what CAN happen? under vacuum the end of the dildo thing hits the diff nipple and stops... under pressure the dildo thing expands to a baloon? Does it pop? I don't think it would. You are comparing apples to oranges with potato chip bag to plastic expansion dildo. A bottled water won't pop under vacuum or pressure and it isn't even designed to expand and contract like the dildo is. Regardless.. I am going to use them! Nothing ventured nothing gained... I mean they are under $2 each... why not? If it explodes.... who cares... back to old reliable vent tube!

WORST CASE, why not put a needle size hole in it? I have pulled my buddy's 14 bolt apart 2 times now and each time there is about a gallon of water in there because he had parked his truck in the river over the weekend without ANY vent tube! How much water would a pinhole allow... not much in comparison to nothing at all if you ask me.

Crap you beat me to it! I was just thinking that! awesome suggestion for the pinhole. It wouldn't let a ton of water, at least nothing that wouldn't steam off over time, and it would allow for expansion and contraction without jeaordizing the integrity of the pumpkin.:thumbsup:

[BRUTUS]

Crap you beat me to it! I was just thinking that! awesome suggestion for the pinhole. It wouldn't let a ton of water, at least nothing that wouldn't steam off over time, and it would allow for expansion and contraction without jeaordizing the integrity of the pumpkin.:thumbsup:

Even better... if you put the pinhole pointed toward the ground.... only water pressure would be able to push water UP the pinhole... hell for that matter put the pinhole at the end of the dildo thingy on the bottom of one of the pleats so the water could reservoir in the pleat until the pressure changed and pushed it back out... WORST CASE!

I wouldn't think the axle seals would leak... it is only air pressure but I will keep my eye out.

EDIT: Andrew... is the material like rubber... or more like plastic? how thick? I am thinking that if it is RUBBER the pinhole would seal once equilibrium is reached... and would only open when there is a huge pressure difference. I will order some tonight and post my findings. :D

[BRUTUS]

here is the link to find your local dealer

http://www.arcticcatdealers.com/

[rockjeep44]

EDIT: Andrew... is the material like rubber... or more like plastic? how thick? I am thinking that if it is RUBBER the pinhole would seal once equilibrium is reached... and would only open when there is a huge pressure difference. I will order some tonight and post my findings. :D

It's kinda rubbery so it'll stretch but also kinda hard like plastic for durability I guess. Somewhere in between fo sho.

[blt2krl]

I found this. Seems like someone else likes your idea.
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/product_info.php?cPath=161&products_id=569

[rockjeep44]

Actually, that's what started this whole thing. I wish I had seen that link before, it would have saved me a lot of time/trouble. Here's the deal. I got the PSC reservoir, installed it on my buggy, and while I was bleeding the air/testing the new system it started blowing fluid out of the top vent. I must have overfilled the system a bit but either way I was like Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley. I called PSC up and they told me they use a little corregated rubber ballon thing and I could find one at my local motorcycle dealer. I said, well why don't you just send me one and the dude said and I quote "shipping would be more than it was worth." So I said whatever man and went on a quest. It took me several days of searching to find out it was an Arctic Cat part and the part number and now blt2krl rolls in and shows it was on the website all along. I'm more pissed now than I was before. Oh well. At least I saved a few bucks :)

[blt2krl]

LOL sorry man...:thumbsup:

[robselina]

my PSC reservoir on the scout does the same thing. Pretty anoying.

That steering system has been a headache. I like PSC gear, but installing it in a 67 scout 800 with manual steering stock was a *****, mostly because I still can't find a good PS pump braket and the one I fabbed sucks nuts. I need to replace the pump can now since the braket bent forward and dented the front lip of the can so it leaks....

[BRUTUS]

Actually, that's what started this whole thing. I wish I had seen that link before, it would have saved me a lot of time/trouble. Here's the deal. I got the PSC reservoir, installed it on my buggy, and while I was bleeding the air/testing the new system it started blowing fluid out of the top vent. I must have overfilled the system a bit but either way I was like Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley. I called PSC up and they told me they use a little corregated rubber ballon thing and I could find one at my local motorcycle dealer. I said, well why don't you just send me one and the dude said and I quote "shipping would be more than it was worth." So I said whatever man and went on a quest. It took me several days of searching to find out it was an Arctic Cat part and the part number and now blt2krl rolls in and shows it was on the website all along. I'm more pissed now than I was before. Oh well. At least I saved a few bucks :)

PSC doesn't sound too smart to me in this particular case... why wouldn't they put a link on the reservior page pointing to the bellows page as a "recommended accessory". That way they are making 100% markup on the bellows and the shipping is negligable! I am sure they would find more people buying them from PSC than going... "$4.00 is WAY TOO MUCH for that part... I think I will get them at my local Arctic cat for $2.00"... IDIOTS!!!

Anyways, thanks for doing the hard part for everyone Andrew! It is appreciated... :thumbsup:

[rockjeep44]

No problem man. Glad to help :)

[BRUTUS]

UPDATE: I went to my local arctic cat dealer and ordered 2 bladders, they wanted $4 each and $4 to ship them to me...? :confused:

So I purchased mine online and found a catch on the online order... they have a minimum $25 order. If your order is less than $25 they charge a $5 surcharge. While I was there I figured out that 13 bladders would be the minimum to avoid the surcharge.

[rockjeep44]

That's Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogleyin retarded. I hope you told them to pound sand. My dealer charged me $2.19 plus tax. They didn't even mention shipping. Out of curiosity I just now went to the PSC site link that Paul provided. I went through the online checkout and they wanted $9.69 for shipping! LMAO!!! Who knew rubber bladders were such a PITA to get.

If you guys want I'd still be more than happy to get some through my guy.

[BRUTUS]

That's Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogleyin retarded. I hope you told them to pound sand. My dealer charged me $2.19 plus tax. They didn't even mention shipping. Out of curiosity I just now went to the PSC site link that Paul provided. I went through the online checkout and they wanted $9.69 for shipping! LMAO!!! Who knew rubber bladders were such a PITA to get.

If you guys want I'd still be more than happy to get some through my guy.

I definately told them to pound sand! I think it is because they aren't a FULL dealer of artic cat. In fact the lady there told me that they are trying to get AWAY from being an arctic cat dealer. The only snowmobile ANYTHING that I saw there was a single front fender! The other ****ty thing is that they told me that since they didn't have any other parts to order from arctic cat... they wouldn't place the order until tuesday! Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley? sure am glad I don't ACTUALLY have an Arctic cat in the stable!

Andrew... I just ordered them from the online store.

[McRoth]

I'll take 4 of them if someone is going to place an order.

[rockjeep44]

Once everyone has a chance to post I'll place an order. It took two days last time for them to come in.

[78indian]

yeah, i need some of these after my roll over i got'er back on 'er feet but the rear diff. was empty.
heres'a pic.

http://members.cox.net/bradabarnes/Aug06-%20057.jpg

[BRUTUS]

I have an update for everyone wanting to run these on their diffs!

I just got my breathers today and stopped at the hardware store for some hose clamps. For some reason the bladder was much smaller than I had imagined it from Andrew's picture. The opening is 3/8"... roughly the same size as the breather nipple on either of my dif's. So I bought some clear vinyl tubing, 3/8 ID, 1/2OD to complete the install. I have both breathers on and I must say... I am impressed. I can't wait to see how they do at altitude.

Here are the pics:

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/d60breather.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/d60breather2.jpg

And the rear:

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/14bbreather1.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/14bbreather2.jpg

[Elliott]

Andrew, checking in pretty late on this thread... and I think these are going to be great for my axles and diffs, but did you have a problem running your steering system sealed which led you to run to allow expansion?
There seems to be two schools of thought on this, and if you do need expansion in the steering system then this definately seems like the way to do it. I've been told by guys in the hydraulics business that sealed is an improvement for steering systems as it reduces aeration and temperatures.
http://www.hydratechbraking.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=156

[BRUTUS]

Andrew, checking in pretty late on this thread... and I think these are going to be great for my axles and diffs, but did you have a problem running your steering system sealed which led you to run to allow expansion?
There seems to be two schools of thought on this, and if you do need expansion in the steering system then this definately seems like the way to do it. I've been told by guys in the hydraulics business that sealed is an improvement for steering systems as it reduces aeration and temperatures.
http://www.hydratechbraking.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=156

Like Andrew said earlier in the thread, it is more that you have the ability for expansion and at the same time it seals everything up in the event of a rollover.

I am very happy with these dildo thingys... I will definately be running them on everything that previously required a vent tube.

[Elliott]

Gotcha, post #30, thanks!
Now, I have a similar pump can that uses a remote reservoir also. It seems like the reason for a lot of air in the system is (aside from initial startup) the pump is cavitating because the reservoir is mounted so low. I don't see how a pump can draw well with the reservoir mounted lower and the feed line at the bottom of the pump.... evidently it works or the pump would probably already be toast.

[rockjeep44]

Gotcha, post #30, thanks!
Now, I have a similar pump can that uses a remote reservoir also. It seems like the reason for a lot of air in the system is (aside from initial startup) the pump is cavitating because the reservoir is mounted so low. I don't see how a pump can draw well with the reservoir mounted lower and the feed line at the bottom of the pump.... evidently it works or the pump would probably already be toast.

Are you talking about your system with the reservoir mounted low or mine?


Brutus, looks great man. They sure make for a clean install. From everything I've been reading people are having great luck with these even with changing altitudes and temperatures. Some people need to remember that our axles are not pressure vessles. These little guys basically just make it easier to seal the water out and keep the oil in.

[McRoth]

Andrew, any update on a bulk order for us?

[Slick Willie]

So is Arctic Cat the only dealer that makes these? What about Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki? Just wondering if anyone has already looked into other dealers. There is a lot of mudding in East Texas...I should be able to find these ok.

[BRUTUS]

I just had another thought while reading a thread on Pirate. With my front ARB... This bladder will give me instant feedback as to whether the ARB is leaking inside the diff or not. I will make a mental note to check before and after trail runs.

[Elliott]

Are you talking about your system with the reservoir mounted low or mine?

Yer's... My pump can fills from the top. Not sure how PSC's stuff works out set up like that but it looks like it would cavitate... which is why I'm trying to get my reservoir tank higher then the pump can on my set up. I'm no hydraulics expert but if your reservoir is lower then the pump I don't see how you could keep it full enough with fluid to stop cavitation...

http://rebelrockrunners.org/gallery/d/17253-1/DSC02374.JPG

[rockjeep44]

So is Arctic Cat the only dealer that makes these? What about Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki? Just wondering if anyone has already looked into other dealers. There is a lot of mudding in East Texas...I should be able to find these ok.

I've done some more research and found a lot of pirate guys order from this dude...
Dean Bulloch, D&C Performance in Cedar City. They are ~$3.50 each...
phone = (435) 586-5172

Also heard Yamaha and Suzuki has them but couldn't find a part #. Might want to try calling your local dealer and describing the part. If you get a part # post back up here.


Elliott, I understand your logic but I've been running my setup this way since I built the buggy (minus the PSC res I was running a similar but inferior res) with no problems. The PSC reservoir is pretty darn nice and I can only assume they know what they're doing. Here is what their site says about it...

"Having the proper reservoir is the key to keeping your steering system running strong. PSC's reservoirs are designed to smooth the flow of fluid and prevent aeration. The SR series reservoirs all have a servicealble filter inside. The top of the reservoir is removable to give access to the filter. Fluid returns through the bottom and flows up through the filter before returning to the pump through a #10 fitting on the side. The in or return port on the reservoir is a #6 jic fitting for standard steering systems and a #8 jic fitting on full hydraulic systems."

[Elliott]

Elliott, I understand your logic but I've been running my setup this way since I built the buggy (minus the PSC res I was running a similar but inferior res) with no problems. The PSC reservoir is pretty darn nice and I can only assume they know what they're doing. Here is what their site says about it...

"Having the proper reservoir is the key to keeping your steering system running strong. PSC's reservoirs are designed to smooth the flow of fluid and prevent aeration. The SR series reservoirs all have a servicealble filter inside. The top of the reservoir is removable to give access to the filter. Fluid returns through the bottom and flows up through the filter before returning to the pump through a #10 fitting on the side. The in or return port on the reservoir is a #6 jic fitting for standard steering systems and a #8 jic fitting on full hydraulic systems."

Hey I appreciate that, I may make a trip down the road here and talk to them about it 'cause if'n it's all good then that would save me working out other mods I was looking at to get the reservoir higher. I saw the stuff on their site and wondered about this, thanks for the info.

[rockjeep44]

In a perfect world I'd like to have the reservoir a little higher but if it works it works so if I was you I'd definitely give it a shot before I went to a lot of trouble fabbing brackets and such.