BRUTUS lift buildup

[BRUTUS]

This is my first ongoing buildup type thread so bear with me. This project has been in the works for over a year now because I have been too busy with other things. I have an ongoing page dedicated to the lift at this address:

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift

Here is the latest pic from this weekend:

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/mockup2small.jpg

Front: Dana 60 Pro Rock, 4.56 gears, ARB locker, 1410 joints all around, 35 spline inners and outers, warn hubs, 14" disc brakes, crossover high steer (with tires and wheels... weight = 770lb), Black powdercoat

Rear: 14FF 4.56 gears, open, 1350 input, standard shafts, shaved 1", 13" disk brakes, black rattle can (soon)

Tires: 38.5 x 16 x 16.5 TSL Super Swampers.

I got some of the funniest looks from people driving down my street... it was great. Now I just need to paint the rear diff and install. Eventually the rear will get an ARB locker. Enjoy!

EDIT: I updated all the images so that they will work again once my new site is fully up and running. I hate the "x's" so much!

[KaiserMan]

Very nice. What are the 14" front disc's from?

[Gambler68]

..but you still haven't fixed your tailgate...or the lightning rod behind the cab :D

wow man..that's awesome. just fraggin' awesome!

[BRUTUS]

Very nice. What are the 14" front disc's from?

That is how they came from Dynatrak. I told them that I wanted the biggest brake that would fit in a 16.5 rim and that is what I got. I haven't actually measured them but will tonight. I know they fill the 16.5 rim much more than the rear disks do.

EDIT: I measured both disks and I have 13" rotors all around.

[BRUTUS]

..but you still haven't fixed your tailgate...or the lightning rod behind the cab :D

wow man..that's awesome. just fraggin' awesome!

What's wrong with my lightning rod? You are referring to my hi lift? Or my CB antenna? I will get a new CB antenna top the next time I go to the CB shop... this one is going to get some red lock tight on the threads! If it breaks off that is one thing... but unthreading... un-acceptable.

As far as my tailgate goes, I am putting a laundry list of things to weld for my buddy with a mobile welding rig. I have never welded anything and don't want to learn on my truck with suspension componants! Here is the list so far:

1) weld seam on all four front stock hangers to re-inforce the rivets
2) re-locate the front spring perches :banghead:
3) weld rear spring hangers to frame
4) box frame areas where hangers are
5) weld tab on bed for tailgate
6) weld 3/16 keystock around door hinges for easy re-alignment of doors after removal
7) weld up exposed bolt threads from the 14 bolt shave job

[rampagefsj]

Kewl beans:cool: ! I'm gonna love seeing this go together. I'd bet that the neighbors are thinking that in a while, a frame will appear on the axles, then engine, tranny, T-case, ec.:D .

[BRUTUS]

Kewl beans:cool: ! I'm gonna love seeing this go together. I'd bet that the neighbors are thinking that in a while, a frame will appear on the axles, then engine, tranny, T-case, ec.:D .

Actually, most of the work they were hidden in the garage so the neighbors only knew if they got the garage tour. This was their first day on the lawn! :D Most of the people that drove by weren't my neighbors. They have seen my trannys and tcase (SM465, NV4500, and NP205) though as they were just inside the garage door... I doubt they will say anything though as I am lifting my truck at a buddys shop with all the facilities.

Did you ever get those decals from the front quarters for me?

[Gambler68]

well..all that time riding shotgun led to various thoughts of gigantic bolts of lightning hitting that hunk of steel up there in the air (the lift). Sad about losing the firestick though.

that's alot of welding! hope he's a good buddy :D

I'm building a gate and a fence to hide my junk..you can see it from the 'highway' 2000' feet away.Little Jtrucks peeking up through the grass...

[BRUTUS]

well..all that time riding shotgun led to various thoughts of gigantic bolts of lightning hitting that hunk of steel up there in the air (the lift). Sad about losing the firestick though.

that's alot of welding! hope he's a good buddy :D

I'm building a gate and a fence to hide my junk..you can see it from the 'highway' 2000' feet away.Little Jtrucks peeking up through the grass...

He is fine with it. That is what he does for a living... a case of bud light and $20... it's all good.

I am not all that worried because my tires offer up quite a bit of resistance to ground. Especially with bias ply TSL's! Lightning wise.. the trees are much better targets than my lightning rod. I have a couple of friends have been struck directly by lightning and they survived. So being in my truck... the lightning doesn't bother me one bit.

[FSJ Guy]

Jason, I bet your neighbors LOVE you!!!!:D

RE Lightning, it's the Faraday Effect that saves you in a closed metal-bodied car. It has NOTHING to do with the tires. Inside a metal cage, q (the electrical charge) is always the SAME in any space inside the cage, therefore, there is no electrical DIFFERENCE, and therefore no flow of electricity. Stick your hand outside the window and now you're talkin' crispy critter.

Makes me think I should add some wire mesh to my roll cage on the 715.....

[Tad]

Looks very nice.

[BRUTUS]

Jason, I bet your neighbors LOVE you!!!!:D

RE Lightning, it's the Faraday Effect that saves you in a closed metal-bodied car. It has NOTHING to do with the tires. Inside a metal cage, q (the electrical charge) is always the SAME in any space inside the cage, therefore, there is no electrical DIFFERENCE, and therefore no flow of electricity. Stick your hand outside the window and now you're talkin' crispy critter.

Makes me think I should add some wire mesh to my roll cage on the 715.....


Ethan.. you are smoking the ROCK! You better bring some to the next M&G! :DIn physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics), the Faraday effect or Faraday rotation is a magneto-optical phenomenon, or an interaction between light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light) and a magnetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic) field. The rotation of the plane of polarization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarization) is proportional to the intensity of the component of the magnetic field in the direction of the beam of light.
The Faraday effect, a type of magneto-optic effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto-optic), discovered by Michael Faraday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday) in 1845, was the first experimental evidence that light and magnetism are related. The theoretical basis for that relation, now called electromagnetic radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation), was developed by James Clerk Maxwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clerk_Maxwell) in the 1860's and 1870's. This effect occurs in most optically transparent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_%28optics%29) dielectric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric) materials (including liquids) when they are subject to strong magnetic fields (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field). - Wikipedia


For me personally, none of even sounds relevent!

The way I see it... lightning is an electrical discharge when enough of a differential is built up between the <-> charge clouds and the <+> charge ground in the presense of an electrical conducting medium (such as rain droplets). Lightning chooses the path of least resistance... trees are predominatly water... humans are predominatly water... ie less resistance than going to the ground through the rain droplets outright. No matter what your vehicle is made of the cumulative resistance to ground (tires are the major factor) that your vehicle offers, prevents your vehicle from conducting <+> charge from ground to the highest point on the vehicle.

Have you ever heard of a vehicle getting hit by lightning? Have you ever heard of an airplane getting hit by lightning? I know a lot more people that have been struck than stories of cars or airplanes getting struck.

[Gambler68]

planes get tagged by lightning all the time!

and there was that dude here in CO that got hit by lightning on his motorcycle..and died. Although I assume it was from crashing into something..

I dunno man, where we were driving, and that crap coming down from 500' over our heads, I'd wanna be running around in one of those rubber Sumo suits..prolly would help with falling off a cliff too :D

edit: since this is your buildup thread, have a mod trim this stuff someday..it's gana be a gooood thread!

[BRUTUS]

planes get tagged by lightning all the time!

and there was that dude here in CO that got hit by lightning on his motorcycle..and died. Although I assume it was from crashing into something..

I dunno man, where we were driving, and that crap coming down from 500' over our heads, I'd wanna be running around in one of those rubber Sumo suits..prolly would help with falling off a cliff too :D

edit: since this is your buildup thread, have a mod trim this stuff someday..it's gana be a gooood thread!

Well.. planes get hit or cars for that matter.. what I am saying is that it doesn't DO anything to the plane/car or its occupants when they get hit. I can also see a motorcycle driving in the rain where the raindrops conduct from bike to ground better than raindrops themselves. When Brutus has 10" of lift... I don't see that being an issue.

I am not worried about it for a buildup thread. That is what I have the webpage for. NO WORRIES.

[Brad W.]

Looking good, I only have some small things to add.

1) use blue lock-tite, not red. Red has to be heated to remove, blue snaps when tightened then loosened repeatedly.

2)I wouldn't advise welding metal around the door hinges, just make some marks with a scribe. If you weld it up, you will have no adjustment if you ever tweak or replace a hinge or door.

[Brad W.]

BTW... foil hats + lightning = bad mojo

[BRUTUS]

1) use blue lock-tite, not red. Red has to be heated to remove, blue snaps when tightened then loosened repeatedly.

I really don't want it to be removed. It is a $5 piece that is part of a $35 antenna. I could easily rack up a bunch of $5 antenna tuners that would exceed the cost of a new antenna. I have loosened lots of stuff with red lock tite before without heat... just like about everything else, works about half as good as advertised. :rolleyes: I am sure if you drenched the bolt in locktite it would be a different story but I only use 2 drops per bolt max.

2)I wouldn't advise welding metal around the door hinges, just make some marks with a scribe. If you weld it up, you will have no adjustment if you ever tweak or replace a hinge or door.

I want the keyways to hold the door alignment. I also plan on making some half doors and I would modify the hinges on the half doors before modifying the keystock. Worst come to worst... I could always cut the keystocks off and be back at square 1.

[orangecherokee]

badass build. hopefully the ARB goes in before the maiden voyage. I'll admit I can't read all of this because I'm using the hotel's computer and trying to be polite. If you are then good you'll need it. Looks like a lot o' beef. More pics please! :cool:

[BRUTUS]

Yeah OC... the front ARB is already in. I have yet to purchase the rear ARB. I figure I will do the 1410 pinion shaft at the same time as the rear ARB. All AFTER I break the gears in. 4wd with the hubs unlocked should be alright on pavement to break in both front and rear gearsets at the same time right?

The website (http://www.jasonhabrock.com/jeep/lift) has more pics... they are all at 1600 x 1200 resolution.... thats why I didn't want to post them all in this thread.

Where are you at a hotel? And I thought you REBEL rock runners were REBELS! :D Let the other guests wait for access to the computer. They are only checking their email! :D Rebels = inconsiderate! :D

[Merc69]

Looks like a really good collection of parts. So get all that stuff to your buddys shop and get busy :D

Front gear break in... I was advised to leave the rig out of 4 wheel drive but drive the streets with the hubs locked for the break in. Seems to have worked for me.

Keep up the work and get that thing on the road. I may have to look you up next time I am out in Colorado Springs.

[rampagefsj]

I might have missed something but, are you putting the rear springs under the frame? If you need any detailed pics of some of my setup, just ask since your build would be similar to mine if you did that.

[BRUTUS]

Looks like a really good collection of parts. So get all that stuff to your buddys shop and get busy :D

Front gear break in... I was advised to leave the rig out of 4 wheel drive but drive the streets with the hubs locked for the break in. Seems to have worked for me.

Keep up the work and get that thing on the road. I may have to look you up next time I am out in Colorado Springs.

Soon enough it will be at my buddys shop. I have a couple more little things to iron out before the voyage.

That makes more sense to lock the hubs in rather than the t-case.... that would reduce wear on the t-case (especially if the need for speed arises). Thanks.

When are you in the springs? We have 2 or 3 CFSJA members in Springs (that I know of) and we might have a M&G when you come out. That would be cool. Brutus probably wouldn't make it though until probably sometime next year due to the emminant lifting!

[BRUTUS]

I might have missed something but, are you putting the rear springs under the frame? If you need any detailed pics of some of my setup, just ask since your build would be similar to mine if you did that.

Yeah they are definately going under the frame. Do you have the pics posted in your rampage buildup thread? Or are they unposted as of yet?

[rampagefsj]

I don't remember posting them recently, so here you go. Just ask if you need any more detailed shots.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/RampageFSJ/rampage2/100_0558.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/RampageFSJ/rampage2/100_0557.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/RampageFSJ/rampage2/100_0556.jpg

[BRUTUS]

Update:

I took my mismatched spring plate with a u-bolt to work and milled out slots today (on business hours.. shhhh). Basically... both plates came off the same 14 bolt but the hole patterns were different. The one on the right was perfect... the other (on the left)... little over a half hole off!

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/springplate2.jpg

Since I blew up my old freebie grinder trying to shave the 14bolt last weekend. I got myself a new grinder and had at the cover plate.

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/14bolttrim6.jpg

I need to paint the rear end black, run some brake lines, drill and tap some aux holes for the cover (I will make it a 15 bolt just to mess with the newbs :lol:)and it should be ready for the big show!

I was reading through the tech section today about hydro assist steering. I am thinking that it will be a necessity for these tires to have hydro assist. From the cost standpoint, it is very similar in cost to bying the dual shock steering stabilizers and also does away with the need for the the steering stabilizers... NICE... "I love it when a plan comes together". I figure I will mount the ram to the drivers side of the pumpkin casting and run the ram between the axle tube and the tie rod and then connect to the tie rod near the drivers front assembly.

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/hydrolocate.jpg

like this

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=79575&stc=1&d=1060995255

[badaboom]

VERY KEWL !!! :cool: :thumbsup: :drivin:

[Brad W.]

I still envy that you live in the fort with all those lonely litte college girls (wagoneers, whiskey, and women... my weaknesses:rolleyes: :D :o ), let alone you're way ahead of my build. you suck. :p

looking good man, get 'er done! If you need stuff welded, you could always drag it up here and bring me some beer. :thumbsup: :dancingbanana: :alc:

[BRUTUS]

I still envy that you live in the fort with all those lonely litte college girls (wagoneers, whiskey, and women... my weaknesses:rolleyes: :D :o ), let alone you're way ahead of my build. you suck. :p

looking good man, get 'er done! If you need stuff welded, you could always drag it up here and bring me some beer. :thumbsup: :dancingbanana: :alc:

Yeah it sucks :p living in the fort. I have a buddy that is in the PHD program for microbiology so I even have a place to stay right by campus now.

As much as I love to look at these axles, I NEED them under the truck... Thanks for the welding offer but Brutus is my ONLY truck. That is why I have a friend that is a mobile welder that will do the welding.

[BRUTUS]

VERY KEWL !!! :cool: :thumbsup: :drivin:

Thanks.... have you done anything to that door that I delivered yet? Have you put those spoke wheels and tires on yet?

[Brad W.]

you rely on an FSJ as your only vehicle? wow, you're a brave man. lol

[BRUTUS]

you rely on an FSJ as your only vehicle? wow, you're a brave man. lol

Read it again.. only TRUCK... I have a '02 Jetta 1.8t for a DD. That said... I am not moving any parts for my truck to Cheyenne in my Jetta.

I wouldn't expect you to bring the MONSTER Ram and trailer down to pick anything up either!

[Brad W.]

especially since my clutch is all FUBAR. haha, I just can't win... but at least it looks good sitting there! I have to be careful not to hit the mirrors when walking around the dodge, they are pretty much at neck-level and are just enough to ruin your day when you run into one... btdt...

does the Jetta fit under the truck with those swampers? lol

[BRUTUS]

especially since my clutch is all FUBAR. haha, I just can't win...

does the Jetta fit under the truck with those swampers? lol

Have yet to see... Should just about fit. Might run into the rear driveshaft though.

How long has your clutch been FUBAR? When are you putting the UPS-damaged one in? :D

[BRUTUS]

I have been thoroughly searching the internet for prices on hydraulic cylinders suitable for hydro assist steer and I just thought I would share my findings since they are not contained in the hydro assist steering thread in the tech section.

Robselina used a 2" bore 8" stroke cylinder from Northern tool. He states that the only problem is that the response is slow and perhaps the 1.5" cylinder, while dropping the pushing force, will fill faster than the 2" bore cylinder.

Speed: So I calculated it out that the 1.5" cylinder fills 77% faster than the 2' bore cylinder. In addition there is a 1.75" bore cylinder out there that fills 31% faster than the 2" bore. So I guess it is personal preference what you want. IIRC Steve (Viscasha) runs a 1.5" cylinder and he was really happy with the performance with 37 x 12.50 (or 10.50) MTR's.

Cost: I found the cylinder that West Texas Offroad uses and it is a Prince (company) Wizard cylinder (made in USA!!!). The 1.5" cylinder is part number F150080 and the 1.75" cylinder is part number F175080. The cost that I found in the Prince catalog is ever so slightly higher than west texas' price for the same cylinder. Both cylinders are offered by west texas for $160 (compared to the 2" on northern tool at $75). I also found that west texas 5/8" heims ($22/pair) are cheaper than Prince and on par with Mcmaster Carr.

So in conclusion my gameplan for hydro assist steering is this:
For 38" x 16" bias ply TSL's, I think I will go with West Texas 1.75" bore 8" stroke as a good compromise... speed and power.
West Texas 5/8" heims
I will have the hoses made locally since my ram will be directly below the PS unit.
I will buy the fittings locally
I will tap the steering box myself
I will fabricate all mounts for cylinder myself

[Brad W.]

my clutch... haven't you read the UPS rant on CFSJA? lol

PS- original post has been edited so brutus looks clueless! :p :D

[BRUTUS]

my clutch... haven't you read the UPS rant on CFSJA? lol

PS- original post has been edited so brutus looks clueless! :p :D

Yeah I have read the UPS rant... It is just a pilot bushing tho!

clueless? Huh? :D

[Brad W.]

it's the principle that ALL the bushings were mashed. I still say UPS bites. Either way, it's in the shop now getting done.

[Danbert]

Dude, your garage looks like mine with all that stereo stuff piled up. Are those boxes waiting to be emptied or just still hanging around?
D

[BRUTUS]

Dude, your garage looks like mine with all that stereo stuff piled up. Are those boxes waiting to be emptied or just still hanging around?
D

That is all my brothers ****. Rather than throw anything away or organize anything... he throws it all into a pile.

[BRUTUS]

it's the principle that ALL the bushings were mashed. I still say UPS bites. Either way, it's in the shop now getting done.

FWIW, when I got a new clutch for Brutus... the "universal clutch kit" came with a pilot bushing and a pilot bearing... neither of which fit. I had to go buy a pilot bushing from the parts store and it fit perfect.

[Brad W.]

Talked to my mechanic, everything is going fine... clutch, u-joints, steering box should all be done by tuesday. Can't wait to have the Juggernaut back, and to have it be fast and go in a straight line again. woohoo.

Thanks for the hydro info, btw. I'm going to need to do that on mine eventually.

[BRUTUS]

I got the 15bolt (:lol:) painted tonight. I also got the extra holes to add support to the cover where the trim was removed done tonight. Unfortunately I ran out of black rattle can so I will have to get more tomorrow night.

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/14btrimpaint1.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/14btrimpaint2.jpg

I have also redone my FSJ homepage so it is much easier to navigate. So if you haven't been there in a while... check it out, http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep

[oldcj5guy]

for a hydro assist setup, I was looking at psc.
Don't know if you had looked at them, but wanted to throw that in there.

[BRUTUS]

for a hydro assist setup, I was looking at psc.
Don't know if you had looked at them, but wanted to throw that in there.

Yeah I had looked at them... Seem like they would be harder to mount. Also negligable cost savings. Just seems to me that the redneck ram cylinder with heim joints would be much easier to use.

[oldcj5guy]

Are you going to run beadlocks on those rims? Just curious. I had my laser guy cut me a set for my 17's and the price wasn't too bad.

[BRUTUS]

Are you going to run beadlocks on those rims? Just curious. I had my laser guy cut me a set for my 17's and the price wasn't too bad.

not traditional beadlocks. Down the road at some point I am putting the internal bead locks on. Brutus is and will always be streetable.

[oldcj5guy]

I am going to run my beadlocks on the street. after reading through all the bs on colorado4x4, I haven't found where it says they are illegal. I know 2 cops down here that run beads on the street on their tj's.
I do like the internals. Guy I worked with got a set a couple of weeks ago and they are sweet.

[Brad W.]

The street legal thing isn't about state laws, it's about the DOT codes. IE, they may not pass inspection if you get a "by-the-book" guy. Personally, i'd run them anyway.

[BRUTUS]

The street legal thing isn't about state laws, it's about the DOT codes. IE, they may not pass inspection if you get a "by-the-book" guy. Personally, i'd run them anyway.

Not that I am opposed to bending a few laws... but I would feel better with the double-beadlock action of the internal beadlocks and knowing that I don't have to torque down 120+ bolts to get half of my beads locked!

I am still considering H1 double beadlocks... when/if these TSL's wear out. I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

[Brad W.]

I completely agree, I'm just saying as a mater of principle, Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley da police. lol.

I've got my h1's on the shelf, so one of these days... I scored 4 bias type (8-bolt) wheels, 4 mag inserts, a pile of o-rings and locknuts, and 3 decent radial 37" wranglers for $100, so it would really be a shame not to use them.

[BRUTUS]

I stumbled on another source for hydraulic assist steering today and it is a little cheaper than redneck ram and much cheaper than PSC... www.rockstomper.com (http://www.rockstomper.com) and they are located in Firestone Colorado... 20min drive from my house... no shipping. I think I am gonna order it up tonight.

[Gambler68]

I stumbled on another source for hydraulic assist steering today and it is a little cheaper than redneck ram and much cheaper than PSC... www.rockstomper.com (http://www.rockstomper.com) and they are located in Firestone Colorado... 20min drive from my house... no shipping. I think I am gonna order it up tonight.

that site has a great links list!
http://www.colemans.com/ some great mil surp.!
your diffs are lookin nice, get yer paint! :D

[orangecherokee]

in that pic they look like diamonds. them twankle twankle real nice. :cool:

[BRUTUS]

that site has a great links list!
http://www.colemans.com/ some great mil surp.!
your diffs are lookin nice, get yer paint! :D

Thanks... Hopefully I can keep it up to date so there aren't any broken links.

in that pic they look like diamonds. them twankle twankle real nice. :cool:

Thanks... wait until you see them with the sst braided lines... lotza bling bling!

[Tad]

Nice,
I am very pleased to be able to follow your build, great job so far.

[BRUTUS]

Thanks for the bump Tad.

So after much internal debate, I have decided to have a 4x shop do the lift for me for a number of reasons:
1) It would take a few long nights for me to complete. I don't want my performance at work to suffer because I am spending long nights away from my house (as much as I would like to). As a sole provider for myself... very important.
2) The idea of leaving my axles/tires/FSJ/tools at a friend of a friends isn't sitting very well with my normally iron stomach.
3) Gas in my DD would add up quickly because the friend of a friend's place is about 15miles from my house one way.
4) I don't have all the tools that I would need to complete the job.
5) I am not a fabricator
6) I am not going to become a fabricator with my truck suspension as my first task.
7) I have done 95% of the legwork to minimize the number of hours to actually do the lift.
8) If I were to screw something up... who knows?

I got friday before labor day off and had three local shops quote my lift. One shop called back to tell me that the guy that does their lifts doesn't work their anymore. One shop quoted me $1300 + parts and the third shop quoted $800 + parts. A good friend of mine recommended another shop that doesn't advertise in a traditional sense. I talked with them yesterday and I was very impressed. Saw some of their welds, I was impressed. They are 100% word of mouth advertising. They keep their overhead down by keeping a small shop and pass that on to the customer... ME! $400 + parts. They are even going to come to my house to see it firsthand.

What do you guys think? Am I nuts? I want to lift it so bad the money doesn't matter to me any more!

[j20brett]

$400 doesnt sound too bad at all to me. id jump on it if i were you. they sound reputable as well...being only word-of0mouth advertising and all. DOOOO IT!:D

[backpack09]

Just remember you ALWAYS get what you pay for.

What kind of a timeframe are they giving you to get it done?

How far from home/work are they? How often will you be able to check out their work?

[BRUTUS]

Just remember you ALWAYS get what you pay for.

What kind of a timeframe are they giving you to get it done?

How far from home/work are they? How often will you be able to check out their work?

Both estimates that I got from the other companies were in the 6-8 chargable hours range. They agreed with that figure. I anticipate, and they agreed, that after the first day working on it, around 85% completion. At that point I have to call in the drag link dimension to Dynatrac in California to get the drag link made and shipped. They promised me that my truck will be stored inside for the duration of the project and would get an alignment before I get it back. I can't think of any problems with this logic. I don't anticipate that I would have to make too many trips there as they are about 20 miles one way from my house.

I know you get what you pay for, but I honestly feel... when you run your business on word of mouth... trust is hard to gain... but easy to lose. The 4x4 community in fort collins & loveland is a pretty small group relatively speaking. I have seen the work that they did on their shop rigs... an 80's Toyota truggy on 35's with a 400+:1 crawl ratio and a sand rail. I was honestly impressed. They are the kind of guys that I will probably buy a case of beer when it is done and just hang out with them and shoot the $hit.

[BRUTUS]

Well, the spring hangers came in today so it looks like I will have these guys start on it next week as long as they have an opening in their shop for it.

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/springhangers.jpg

[Brad W.]

where'd you get those hangers? those are sweet, i want some

[BRUTUS]

where'd you get those hangers? those are sweet, i want some

Kinda pricey at $18/each... if you read their website like I did... it reads like they are $9/each. Part number is per pair... "each" pair $18, nope... each piece of a paired part number is $18.

Sky Manufacturing in Oregon http://www.sky-manufacturing.com top item when you click on "accessories". They definately have the BEEF to them at 1/4" thick.

[orangecherokee]

sometimes it costs to have the beef... at least that's what i told all the girls i dated :p

[BRUTUS]

UPdate: After putting a new distributor in the truck tonight and loading the axles on my friends trailer... my FSJ, Axles and the various parts I have accumulated over the last year and a half are no longer in my garage/driveway. I feel like I am 10 years old on December 20th right now....

They are starting on it tomorrow so I should have some pics tomorrow night.

[BRUTUS]

UPDATE:

Even though I took these pictures last week... I just haven't gotten around to posting them until now. The front axle is gone. I found that all the superlift bushings that the PO put in were shot... I will get pics. So I ordered new shackle bushings from BJ's and new spring eye bushings for the front from my local 4x shop.

Without further ado... Here are the pics of the front axle mocked into place waiting for spring perches and spring plates. When the springs are attached it should sit between 2 and 3 inches taller than these pictures :D

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontlift1.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontlift4.jpg

[Gambler68]

$$ well spent bro. Gana be wicked pissa! :thumbsup:

[Bama Burden]

Looks great! Get us some good pics of the hangers whenever they go on

[BRUTUS]

Looks great! Get us some good pics of the hangers whenever they go on

I definately will. The shop is telling me that if I get them the rest of the parts they need today (which should happen) they will have it rolling by Friday. Still have to tap the steering box and order my drag link but it will be rollin around.

[rustywagoneers_com]

lookin good man..

peace
Dave

[wickedwagon767]

$400 is a smokin' deal. I'd jump on that.

Speaking of which, hope you won't mind if I proceed to dry-hump that rollin' pair of sexy mamasitas on your lawn. I'm kinda in the same boat as you, not married....no kids...no wild bills or payments and I'm buckling down and loading up on the hours at work so I can throw as much as possible into my two buildups. Oh, and a weeklong trip to San Diego/Tijuana to see my bro early next year:cool:

Looking forward too seeing BRUTUS come together.

What were your plans for the drivetrain again? Is that the Edelbrock MPFI you're going to use?

[BRUTUS]

Looking forward too seeing BRUTUS come together.

What were your plans for the drivetrain again? Is that the Edelbrock MPFI you're going to use?

Thanks

I have actually changed my mind on drivetrain again. I am thinking a mildly built TBI sb350 - NV4500 - Stak 3-speed tcase. Of course the two guys that want to build a 350 for me want me to go with 500+HP... so who knows.

[Brad W.]

you do not need 500hp in a rockcrawler, lol. especially if you want parts to survive. as cool as it sounds, it's really gonna hinder your progression if you cant go up an obstacle without twisting off driveshafts all the time.

now that said, massive power is great if you wanna play in the mud or sand. so it's really subjective to where you want to play

[Bama Burden]

Do you think you'll use the overdrive gear much on the CO highways and biways?

[wickedwagon767]

Thanks

I have actually changed my mind on drivetrain again. I am thinking a mildly built TBI sb350 - NV4500 - Stak 3-speed tcase. Of course the two guys that want to build a 350 for me want me to go with 500+HP... so who knows.

You'd end up spending alot more getting 500HP out of a 350 then you would out of a 454 or a Caddy 500, but whatever floats your BRUTUS.

The Stak 3speed is niiiice

[BRUTUS]

Believe me when I tell you... I understand that you don't need 500hp on the rocks, but let me justify the decision. I figure that it would come in real handy on the highway with overdrive gear. I am not really worried about twisting driveshafts on the trails because I have the hand throttle and I am very comfortable using it (IE I am not relying on my foot pounding on the skinny pedal to crawl along breaking s***). Finally, in an effort to build more of an ALL PURPOSE rig... high horsepower and high gears for sand and mud... low gears and hand throttle for rocks... makes sense to me... what do you guys think?

Instead of going the 500 or 454 route... I was thinking that a running 350 (low compression) out of truck for $300-400 + cam + heads + roots supercharger. Not sure if you can do a TBI under a roots supercharger but I will find out.

I know it would look cool sticking out of the hood... and the supercharger has the "ALWAYS ON" feature that a turbo lacks for high horsepower. At least that is what I am thinking. I figure I can't see anything on the trail over the hood anyways so why not just go with it!

Keep in mind that my OVERALL goal with my Brutus is an ENTIRE drivetrain that could be swapped to another rig at any point in the future, be it another FSJ, rock buggy, etc. EDIT IE if I were to get married and have kids and get a WAG... with a drivetrain swap! :D

[rustywagoneers_com]

you can throw your TBI on TOP of a roots blower, or under a centrifugal (paxton / vortech / etc) of course, you can do either with the turbo...

i vote forced induction (as if that counted for anything)

:)

peace
Dave

[Bama Burden]

i vote jet engine http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/idea.gif

[BRUTUS]

you can throw your TBI on TOP of a roots blower, or under a centrifugal (paxton / vortech / etc) of course, you can do either with the turbo...

i vote forced induction (as if that counted for anything)

:)

peace
Dave

That is right... the TBI would have to sit on top... like the carbs do with the air cleaner element in the intake scoop.

[blt2krl]

One reason I love the BB idea is off idle torque. My buddie has a supercharger on his 98 Tacoma. While wheeling in the rocks he is never building boost. So basically it does nothing for torque.

[wickedwagon767]

Believe me when I tell you... I understand that you don't need 500hp on the rocks, but let me justify the decision. I figure that it would come in real handy on the highway with overdrive gear. I am not really worried about twisting driveshafts on the trails because I have the hand throttle and I am very comfortable using it (IE I am not relying on my foot pounding on the skinny pedal to crawl along breaking s***). Finally, in an effort to build more of an ALL PURPOSE rig... high horsepower and high gears for sand and mud... low gears and hand throttle for rocks... makes sense to me... what do you guys think?

Instead of going the 500 or 454 route... I was thinking that a running 350 (low compression) out of truck for $300-400 + cam + heads + roots supercharger. Not sure if you can do a TBI under a roots supercharger but I will find out.

I know it would look cool sticking out of the hood... and the supercharger has the "ALWAYS ON" feature that a turbo lacks for high horsepower. At least that is what I am thinking. I figure I can't see anything on the trail over the hood anyways so why not just go with it!

Keep in mind that my OVERALL goal with my Brutus is an ENTIRE drivetrain that could be swapped to another rig at any point in the future, be it another FSJ, rock buggy, etc. EDIT IE if I were to get married and have kids and get a WAG... with a drivetrain swap! :D

Hell yea, I'm right inline with your thinking. The only problem link in the chain is the high horsepower motor. With the T-case iin4hi the thing would fly and probably work great in the sand/mud.....however , in 4lo you may have great reduction with the Stak case but that high horsepower motor isn't going to agree with the low rpm luggin' on the rocks. I don't have any experience with sticks,but I know the NV4500 has a super low first gear and that may be your saving grace crawlin'.

On the supercharger, look up a company called Whipple. They had made bolt-in Superchargers for '87-95 TBI truck engines but I haven't seen anything of theirs advertised for some time.

[BRUTUS]

One reason I love the BB idea is off idle torque. My buddie has a supercharger on his 98 Tacoma. While wheeling in the rocks he is never building boost. So basically it does nothing for torque.

Has your buddy looked into getting a smaller supercharger pulley? In theory you could dial in whatever idle boost you want with a smaller pulley. Obviously there is a limit to how small you can go and still have a pully with attachment hardware though.

EDIT: Wait a tic... when you are crawling you can basically run any RPM you want right? The gear reduction effect is what keeps your speed down and your torque up, not the supercharger. I would suspect that if you were running 157:1 crawl ratio at 2000 RPM with 38.5 super swampers.... 1.46MPH vs 0.51MPH @ 700RPM idle... are you really going to notice the difference in speed whether you are building boost or not? Basically you are building torque through gearing at slow speeds and torque through supercharger at high speeds.

Another thing I don't like about the big block is that you have to run a crazy big radiator. I have a neighbor that has a J10 with a 454 and he had to cut away most of the core support to fit the darn thing... which even included moving the battery tray. Does Crazyjeepman have any pictures of his cooling system?

[Bama Burden]

an aluminum rad wouldn't be that big. also you can always mount your rad in the bed

[BRUTUS]

an aluminum rad wouldn't be that big. also you can always mount your rad in the bed

If I was doing a truggy that would be fine.

There are also a bunch of other considerations why I don't want a BB.

It won't ever be a tow rig
added weight on the front springs when rockcrawling with 10" lift might be a little un-nerving, nosing down steep declines. See Exhibit A
IIRC my buddy had to cut the fender wells to fit the headers
Fuel economy (add aux fuel tank for added range :( )With all the modifications to the stock setup required to run a BB, it then deviates from my design goal for the truck that I stated before:

"Keep in mind that my OVERALL goal with my Brutus is an ENTIRE drivetrain that could be swapped to another rig at any point in the future, be it another FSJ, rock buggy, etc. EDIT IE if I were to get married and have kids and get a WAG... with a drivetrain swap!"

Exhibit A:
http://members.tripod.com/hobojeepers/images/m1hrsteve2.jpg

[blt2krl]

Does a 454 really weigh 250 - 300 lbs more? A 401 and 454 couldn't be more than 100lbs difference. Not really sure though. With shorty headers there shouldn't be much triming.

Perhaps a 383 would be an idea as well.

[FSJ Guy]

Whoa! You ARE planning ahead, aren't you??? <g> I didn't know you had someone in mind! LOL!

[DanHS]

How about the 360 with MPFI and a ~6psi centrifugal supercharger? I was thinking of that before, I think it would be neat and it would work well. Set it up right, between the low gearing and the right cam it would produce plenty of torque for crawling around, but open it up and the supercharger gives you the power to run in the sand or mud, and fly on the highway. Plus the MPFI will be more flexible to the changing boost and help give you decent mpg. You just have to figure out a setup with a little carb plenum that sits tightly sealed over the venturis of the intake, and then run some air ducting from the blower to the intake carb plenum thingy, like this one:

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/knn-85-1060.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=KNN%2D85%2D1060&N=700+4294925239+4294839057+115&autoview=sku

[BRUTUS]

Part of the reason for the SBC is so that I don't have to adapt to the NV4500. All standard Chevy parts. I think the biggest thing that has influenced me on this decision lately is in talking to Shimniok about the 360 in his Gwag. For the money that he put into it, it definatetly doesn't perform like he wanted/expected it to. I would like to avoid that particular scenario at all cost. He asked me if I would come over to his house and perform the same "voodoo dance" I performed on my engine for his because mine ran so much better... even considering I have less compression than he does. I am not an engine guy but I know I like it when my engine runs really good.

To me it just makes sense since I will have a new tranny and transfercase... why not do it all at the same time anyways? It also fits with my design goals so I am going for it.

[BRUTUS]

Whoa! You ARE planning ahead, aren't you??? <g> I didn't know you had someone in mind! LOL!

Ethan... it is eery reading that thread above again... I just went on a date tonight with a REALLY good girl... so who knows what will happen. I didn't tell you because I met her yesterday and went on the date today... I told Chris about her though while we were putting his 360 in today. He will probably get in touch with you about returning your cherry picker.

[BRUTUS]

New pics are up... 5'4" to the top of the hood! They are telling me that they will have the rear under it by the weekend.

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontlift5.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontlift6.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontlift7.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontlift8.jpg

[fulsizjeep]

:thumbsup:

[BlackBart]

Ethan... it is eery reading that thread above again... I just went on a date tonight with a REALLY good girl... so who knows what will happen. I didn't tell you because I met her yesterday and went on the date today... I told Chris about her though while we were putting his 360 in today. He will probably get in touch with you about returning your cherry picker.

Isn't it obvious? That J truck is a Chick Magnet! Them axles and tires are Way sexy. Even Bigun could score a hot babe with Dana 60's and Swampers!:D

[BRUTUS]

Isn't it obvious? That J truck is a Chick Magnet! Them axles and tires are Way sexy. Even Bigun could score a hot babe with Dana 60's and Swampers!:D

Even in the shop? :D

[Slick Willie]

New pics are up... 5'4" to the top of the hood!


Daaaaaaaaang, hope you're planning on a cage too. Or flat trails. ;)

[BRUTUS]

Daaaaaaaaang, hope you're planning on a cage too. Or flat trails. ;)

Eventually I will. I have ridden in a buddy's chevy with the same lift/tires and it is really stable. We will see. For right now I need to get some wheeling pics so I can have Brutus listed on the Dynatrac page next to all the $60K CJ/TJ/YJ crowd.... rust and all!

http://www.dynatrac.com/customers_jeep.html

[Bama Burden]

Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley? They put this guy in there for just buying a diff cover??
http://www.dynatrac.com/images/image_customers_jonw_big1.jpg
Why Dynatrac:
Needed a bulletproof diff cover

[BRUTUS]

Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley? They put this guy in there for just buying a diff cover??
http://www.dynatrac.com/images/image_customers_jonw_big1.jpg
Why Dynatrac:
Needed a bulletproof diff cover

Do you really need to ask? He takes a picture of his YJ in the garage with a for sale sign in the window... WHAT A POSER! You can't even tell he has a "bulletproof diff cover" by his picture.

I guess they just want a good diversity of "customer rides."

[willam]

Those axles are making me drool, and twitch. the old running gear in my 63 is begging for replacement. Pardon m while I quitely convulse in the corner. Nice score, betch you blowing the dust out of your wallet now.

[BRUTUS]

Those axles are making me drool, and twitch. the old running gear in my 63 is begging for replacement. Pardon m while I quitely convulse in the corner. Nice score, betch you blowing the dust out of your wallet now.

Thanks! I have been drooling over the front for 18 months now... I am used to it though. Wallet isn't doing too bad. I make really good money as a young project manager/design engineer and I have been single for long enough that I have all my finances dialed in pretty tight. Once my car is paid off next year... I will have lots more to put into the truck!

I am hoping that the rear end will be under it tomorrow and I can get more pics to post up.

I am definately feeling better about the decision to have this shop do my lift for me. I wouldn't be a 1/10th as far at this time. They are pointing out stuff that they have done and I have learned a ton. No regrets now!

[bigun]

Isn't it obvious? That J truck is a Chick Magnet! Them axles and tires are Way sexy. Even Bigun could score a hot babe with Dana 60's and Swampers!:DEven in the shop?
Now wait a dadgum minute how did I get dragged into this?
Brutus is looking good LOL

[Gambler68]

When do we get to see the chick? :D

[BRUTUS]

When do we get to see the chick? :D

no comment...

Anyways... I do have an update.

I have some pics of the rear hangers welded to the frame (front's only)

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/rearlift1.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/rearlift2.jpg

Keep in mind that there will be a 3/16 CAP put on the hanger toward the front that extends to the horizontal leg of the frame rail to tie it all back together... BEEF!

[Bama Burden]

cool. thanks for the pics. I was considering using that same setup for my new rearend swap. Nice to see how it has gone together for you.

[BRUTUS]

cool. thanks for the pics. I was considering using that same setup for my new rearend swap. Nice to see how it has gone together for you.

I will get more pics tonight or tomorrow depending on how late they are staying to work on it tonight.

They called me to see if I wanted to beef up the frame the same way for the rear hangers and I think I am going to do it.

They also told me that it is sitting on all four wheels now so I can't wait to see it again.

[BRUTUS]

WOO HOO... It is supporting its own weight again!

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/fulllift1.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/fulllift2.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/fulllift3.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/fulllift4.jpg

[83 BEAST]

WOW!!! your j-truck is looking VERY nice these days. how does it handle? VERY NICE WORK!!!

[mudslider]

that thing is looking nice. great work.

[BRUTUS]

WOW!!! your j-truck is looking VERY nice these days. how does it handle? VERY NICE WORK!!!

Thanks for the compliments...

It doesn't handle at all right now without driveshafts or a drag link... but soon enough!

I am super stoked to get the tailgate back from powdercoat. I actually found a powdercoat color that matched my 32 year old faded paint.

[DanHS]

Awesome! looks great, can't wait to see the first trail report. Now just grab a set of the new prerunner bumpers from BJ's and you'll be all set!

[BRUTUS]

Awesome! looks great, can't wait to see the first trail report. Now just grab a set of the new prerunner bumpers from BJ's and you'll be all set!

I might be missing something here but I don't see any NEW prerunner bumpers on BJ's... besides that, BJ's is backlogged on fabricating bumpers.

I am actually going to buy the steel for the bumpers and rocksliders through my employer and make my own.

I also plan on mounting my winch upside down under the crank pully instead of on the bumper. I don't want to hide my bling-blingy rhino grill. This fact kinda negates using any BJ's bumpers.

[LaJ10]

Looks great!I am doing the same thing with the rear of mine.Where did you get the spring hangers at?They look like exactly what im looking for.

[BRUTUS]

Looks great!I am doing the same thing with the rear of mine.Where did you get the spring hangers at?They look like exactly what im looking for.

Thanks.

see post #62 of this thread.

[NVJEEPER]

:eek: Cant wait to see the winch an bumpers! New site is awesome too.Great job!

[Bama Burden]

Thanks for the compliments...

It doesn't handle at all right now without driveshafts or a drag link... but soon enough!

I thought you were going with hydro? Also what's the status on your tranny/tcase combo? Weren't you going to put in a NV4500?

[BRUTUS]

I thought you were going with hydro? Also what's the status on your tranny/tcase combo? Weren't you going to put in a NV4500?

Hydro Assist. I have the parts... I just need to tap my second steering box (second try).

Tranny and t-case are on the docket as the NEXT project (see sig). I am going to enjoy what I have for now. Break in the gears, wheel it. That will give me time to get an engine on a stand. Also, Stak has not come up with an adapter to the NV4500 yet so I still have some time there.

[j20brett]

Man that thing turned out great! how close are you to denver? i may have to come and see it for myself when im up there this winter.

[BRUTUS]

Man that thing turned out great! how close are you to denver? i may have to come and see it for myself when im up there this winter.

Thanks!

That depends more on what part of Denver you are talking about. I am about 35 min from the north end of Denver, 1 hour from the south end. Post up to CFSJA.org (http://www.cfsja.org) when you will be in town. We might be in need of a M&G anyways so everyone can see.

[rampagefsj]

I might be missing something here but I don't see any NEW prerunner bumpers on BJ's... besides that, BJ's is backlogged on fabricating bumpers.

I am actually going to buy the steel for the bumpers and rocksliders through my employer and make my own.

I also plan on mounting my winch upside down under the crank pully instead of on the bumper. I don't want to hide my bling-blingy rhino grill. This fact kinda negates using any BJ's bumpers.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58107
I think he's talking about these. I don't really care for the front, but I like the rear one. You're coming along nicely. Hope to see it on the trails soon.:drivin:

[BRUTUS]

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58107
I think he's talking about these. I don't really care for the front, but I like the rear one. You're coming along nicely. Hope to see it on the trails soon.:drivin:

Thanks, that makes more sense. For the reasons I stated above I still wouldn't buy it. The only new reasons I wouldn't buy it are because (no offense intended) I think they both look gawdy and that is only one set they made as a prototype that has already been sold. I have never been a fan of round tube bumpers.

Personally I am much more of a fan of BJ's dozer bumpers. I think it all goes back to watching the truck on Simon & Simon... specifically the black rims/black tires (see above) and the flat-robust bumper, even though it was off of a tow truck! That is more my style. It will be reflected in my bumpers too. Believe me, if I WASN'T building a rock crawler type truck... it would have a tow truck bumper! :D

[jeepmj_tj]

you plan on putting that tie rod on top of the knuckles? might gain ya ground clearance.

[BRUTUS]

you plan on putting that tie rod on top of the knuckles? might gain ya ground clearance.

Yup... I have to move the tie rod using two Johnny Joints before I can hook up the hydraulic assist ram.

[rockjeep44]

Any way I could talk you into full-hydro? Ditch the drag link and steering box. Get a sweet double ended ram with a load reacting cylinder with about 5-6 turns lock to lock and cruise in style. All the talk about how you can't drive full-hydro on the street is BS. You'll probably go full hydro sometime anyways.

[BRUTUS]

Any way I could talk you into full-hydro? Ditch the drag link and steering box. Get a sweet double ended ram with a load reacting cylinder with about 5-6 turns lock to lock and cruise in style. All the talk about how you can't drive full-hydro on the street is BS. You'll probably go full hydro sometime anyways.

Maybe someday I will. I don't really have the funds for it right now. I have already bought the drag link (being delivered today from Dynatrac). I have already bought the hydro assist. I have already bought a second PS box to tap... but I am confident now that I can get the bb's back into the first box and make it usable again. To change to full hydro now... would be a significant hit financially to the project even after I sell all that stuff.

I am confident that you can drive it on the street but I guess I feel better about having a backup system just in case. Especially since it is about 50% street 50% trail use.

[rockjeep44]

That's cool, the build looks good. You can get that steering box back together. I did the same thing. Opened it up and blammo, bearings everywhere. I don't remember which one goes first but once you figure that out you just basically alternate them. Upon really close inspection you can tell the difference between the two types of bearings.

[BRUTUS]

That's cool, the build looks good. You can get that steering box back together. I did the same thing. Opened it up and blammo, bearings everywhere. I don't remember which one goes first but once you figure that out you just basically alternate them. Upon really close inspection you can tell the difference between the two types of bearings.

That is what I had read... I just couldn't figure out how to get the front cap off... I knew you couldn't get the bearings in from the rag-joint side. I have heard that the bearings are different colors for the different sizes. Now that Elliot posted the entire manual it won't be that hard to do. http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58080&highlight=steering

[JpX]

Just took a look at Brutus tonight and Brutus is looking good. the top of his fender wells are 15" higher than my stock 76 J10. I can't wait to see it rolling Jason you have a really nice rig. The guys doing the work are realy good clean looking welds and they really think the project through like it was their own truck.

[BRUTUS]

Just took a look at Brutus tonight and Brutus is looking good. the top of his fender wells are 15" higher than my stock 76 J10. I can't wait to see it rolling Jason you have a really nice rig. The guys doing the work are realy good clean looking welds and they really think the project through like it was their own truck.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I am glad you are considering them for your mods. They do excellent work!

[Brad W.]

Andrew, hook a brother up with some info on those load-reacting orbitals. Those return-to-center like the ones WMS used to do, right?

[BRUTUS]

Well, the task for tonight was to tap the steering box for hydro assist. What a PITA!!! I thought it would take maybe an hour total. Three hours later... viola!

I will definately put a writeup for this on my homepage... there is a LOT of information that I didn't know (from other writeups) that I definately know now.

[BRUTUS]

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/images/smilies/co4x4/BananaMan.gif Well, the day has finally come. Talked with the mechanic yesterday and he was pretty confident that I could come pick it up today. Talked with him again today and it will be done by 5:00pm tonight.

I am so excited I want to ask my boss for the afternoon off! :D

:dancingbanana:

[rustywagoneers_com]

where's that dancing banana!!

peace
Dave

[BRUTUS]

where's that dancing banana!!

peace
Dave

Updated... thanks Dave

[Tad]

... am so excited I want to ask my boss for the afternoon off! :D
I'd ask for tomorrow, maybe Wednesday also.
Congratulations

[BRUTUS]

I'd ask for tomorrow, maybe Wednesday also.
Congratulations

Good point... It doesn't hurt to ask. :D

[rustywagoneers_com]

ok. so?


TELL US ALREADY!!!

[BRUTUS]

ok. so?


TELL US ALREADY!!!

Turns out the steering box for a Wag has a different input spline than the box for the J-truck. So it will be done tomorrow. Sorry.

[rustywagoneers_com]

poop

[Bama Burden]

d@mn, i thought i was gonna see some flex shots this morning:rolleyes:

:thumbsup:

[BRUTUS]

d@mn, i thought i was gonna see some flex shots this morning:rolleyes:

:thumbsup:

I will try to get some flex shots tomorrow when I have it at work but no promises. I am leaving friday to go elk hunting with my pops and I still haven't sighted my rifle in yet. So things are going to get pretty hectic for me for the rest of the week.

[Bama Burden]

best of luck with the elk. that's good eatin. only way to bag an elk around here is to pay about $75/lb at the fancy restaurants

[NVJEEPER]

Good Luck on your Elk trip. Get that dude sighted in for sure!!! nothin like guesstimating.

[Elliott]

So here we are, no flex shots yet and not even any shots of your drive line... Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley? :D

[JpX]

I bet he pulled a late night up there getting the steering sorted out. I wonder if the hydro assist is going in or just regular steering right now??

[rustywagoneers_com]

i just seen where his little light thing was green....

[BRUTUS]

this friggin' sux....

They filled Brutus up with fluids, bled the brakes, and were bleeding the power steering when the "cap" fittings I put on the hydro assist ports leaked under pressure. I don't recall anyone mentioning that the "cap" fittings need to have teflon tape in any of the articles I read. So there is yet another "item" that goes on the once-was-unknown-and-now-is-known list for hydro assist.

Tim, the hydro assist is NOT hooked up as of right now. They haven't welded the tabs on the housing or the tie rod.

Elliott, what do you want to see of my driveline? Not sure when I can get some flex shots because of my hunting trip. Sorry.

[BRUTUS]

Good News... I got to drive Brutus to ALL my friends houses that wanted to see it tonight. Drove pretty good. I do have a vibration at 45mph (indicated) I can't tell if it is the rear pinion angle relative to the transfer case or if it is just the tires.

Bad News... A couple of times going down the road I got death wobble really bad. The only way to get out of it was to slow down until it went away. Not sure what is causing it because everything is tight up front. I am hoping that the hydro assist is able to overpower this effect. Could be that it is just out of alignment too. I will have to get an alignment soon.

Really bad news... the tranny/t-case junction is leaking diff fluid like a faucet. I need to re-do the seal between the two. Also, the steering box I got out of the junkyard leaks like a faucet on the seal that goes above the pinion. So by the time I got it home and did the last turn into the driveway it was whining.

SOOOOOO as of right now I am not taking it to work tomorrow to flex it out. I don't have any power steering fluid to fill it back up with and even if I did it would all be gone by the time I got to work.

[Elliott]

I'm itching to see the NV/Stak combo, in there... is that still coming?

The wobble you got could be if you had your assist cylinder disconnected and were'nt running a steering dampner.

[BRUTUS]

I'm itching to see the NV/Stak combo, in there... is that still coming?

The wobble you got could be if you had your assist cylinder disconnected and were'nt running a steering dampner.

I don't have the Stak yet... they still don't have an adapter for the NV4500.

I hadn't thought of that but you are right... I don't have a steering damper and no hydro assist yet either.

Anyone know where I can get a Saginaw rebuild kit?

[Gambler68]

Just get new steering box, or a S10 box mang.

Congrats on getting the road wet finally with your beast!! :thumbsup:

http://www.flamingriver.com/

[BRUTUS]

Just get new steering box, or a S10 box mang.

Congrats on getting the road wet finally with your beast!! :thumbsup:

http://www.flamingriver.com/

By the time I get a new one... The $100 I spent on the one in the truck is out the window, the time I spent tapping the box for hydro assist is out the window and I still have to tap the new box for hydro assist anyways. FWIW, the additional fab projects that I had them do on the suspension really kicked my budget out the window already. I REALLY need to learn to weld!

I am thinking that I might take my old box and finish the hydro assist that I started. Re-install the balls and then I just have to get a new rag joint and it DOESN'T leak.

[blt2krl]

[quote=BRUTUS]Good News... I got to drive Brutus to ALL my friends houses that wanted to see it tonight. Drove pretty good. I do have a vibration at 45mph (indicated) I can't tell if it is the rear pinion angle relative to the transfer case or if it is just the tires.

Bad News... A couple of times going down the road I got death wobble really bad. The only way to get out of it was to slow down until it went away. Not sure what is causing it because everything is tight up front. I am hoping that the hydro assist is able to overpower this effect. Could be that it is just out of alignment too. I will have to get an alignment soon./quote]

I had death wobble when I first got my rig up and running with the one ton setup. A couple things to check, first the king pins. Did you rebuild them? They could be loose. One way to prolong there survival would be to put a couple washers in the upper king pin to tighten it up a bit. Second and alignment would help but all they will probably do is set your toe, cause our junk with huge tires ususally doesn't fit on the racks. When you get your hydor assist setup it should erase your death wobble for sure but that doesn't mean those kingpin parts don't need to be looked at. Also a sloppy steering box can cause death wobble as well.

[BRUTUS]

I had death wobble when I first got my rig up and running with the one ton setup. A couple things to check, first the king pins. Did you rebuild them? They could be loose. One way to prolong there survival would be to put a couple washers in the upper king pin to tighten it up a bit. Second and alignment would help but all they will probably do is set your toe, cause our junk with huge tires ususally doesn't fit on the racks. When you get your hydor assist setup it should erase your death wobble for sure but that doesn't mean those kingpin parts don't need to be looked at. Also a sloppy steering box can cause death wobble as well.

The kingpins are BRAND NEW from Dynatrac. I doubt that they would leave them loose. They came in the crate with the codder pins already installed.

Sloppy steering box is a possiblity. I will check it when I take it out to rebuild the sector shaft.

I am pretty sure that a steering damper would have stopped it and likewise the hydro assist will stop it.

[blt2krl]

king pin may need some additional preload then. Big tires and wider than factory rims could use more preload than a factory setup.

[jeepmj_tj]

I don't have the Stak yet... they still don't have an adapter for the NV4500.

I hadn't thought of that but you are right... I don't have a steering damper and no hydro assist yet either.

Anyone know where I can get a Saginaw rebuild kit?

If they make a stak to bolt inplace of a NP231 like in a newer jeep.(and I know they make adapters so you can bolt a NP231 to an NV4500) why cant you use an adapter for a NP231 on your tranny and order a Stak as a replacement for that...... just a thought

[BRUTUS]

If they make a stak to bolt inplace of a NP231 like in a newer jeep.(and I know they make adapters so you can bolt a NP231 to an NV4500) why cant you use an adapter for a NP231 on your tranny and order a Stak as a replacement for that...... just a thought

This page is what I am basing my conclusion on:

http://www.stak4x4.com/nv4500.htm

I think you are overcomplicating it. I don't want 2 adapters in line... I would rather just pay for one. It is not just the adapter that is the problem either... there is also a shaft coupling inside that would have to have 2 shaft couplers for the two adapters. Like my pops always told me... more parts = more things that can go wrong.

I think of it this way... Stak knows what they are doing because that is how they make money. If they say they don't have an adapter... they don't have an adapter.

[Bama Burden]

The dynatrac has balljoints.

[Elliott]

Dang that Stak is spendy, sure you don't want to put a more conventional doubler together?

[shimniok]

I don't have the Stak yet... they still don't have an adapter for the NV4500.

I hadn't thought of that but you are right... I don't have a steering damper and no hydro assist yet either.

Anyone know where I can get a Saginaw rebuild kit?

I have a rebuild kit for saginaw steering box f/s

Michael

[BRUTUS]

I have a rebuild kit for saginaw steering box f/s

Thanks for the offer Michael... I was able to find a rebuild kit for just the sector shaft at Carquest for $14.

[kamikaze4x4nj]

your truck is looking sick, the hydro assist is a great idea :thumbsup:

[BRUTUS]

Well I want to wet everyones appetite tonight... I rebuilt the sector shaft seals on the steering box this morning and drove Brutus all day. NO PROBLEM! So the plan is to take Brutus to my work tomorrow morning and flex it out with the fork lifts there (much easier when there is no one NEEDING a forklift to do something work related). So you can expect MUCHAS PICTURAS tomorrow! YEAH!

I plan on taking measurements for shock lengths and looking for driveline binding at the same time.

[FSJ Guy]

I saw this truck Saturday night and it looks AWESOME!! Those spring mounts are NEVER going to EVER fall off. It's VERY nice work all around and the truck looks "right". It's big, but doesn't look "too tall". It's not like some of the new pickups that are lifted sky high so that you can walk under them.

The top of the pickup bed is just about 5 feet off the ground.

[BRUTUS]

Here are the pics I promised...

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontdriverlift1.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontdriverlift2.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontdriverlift3.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontdriverlift4.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontdriverlift5.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontdriverlift6.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/frontdriverlift7.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift1.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift2.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift3.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift4.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift5.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift6.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift7.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift8.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift9.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/lift/images/reardriverlift10.jpg

Things that I have noticed so far...

The tailgate binds pretty bad at full flex
No problems with brake lines
No problems with drivelines
No need for any bumpstops
38" tires tuck REALLY NICELY into the stock wheelwells. Only interferance is the front corner that hangs down. :sawzall:
I KNOW that I have a leak... I will address it this week. After all it is a Jeep.
I think that since I moved the suspension points UNDER the frame... it allows the bed/cab interface to tweak much more than it ever did before.

[shadowjeep]

lookin good man. love the stance on that thing.:thumbsup:

[rampagefsj]

Sweet:cool: ! We have another big J-truck up and moving. I'm wondering, since you have discs in the rear, did you have to modify the proportioning valve at all? Or are the prop. valve and master cylinder the stock ones? How well does it stop? My truck isn't going to be breaking any stopping distance records anytime soon and I'm thinking about swapping to disks in the rear, just need to know what else needs to change.

[mudslider]

that thing flexes awesome. nice work. did you use stock length springs or no? i read through the post and never seen what size they are and how much lift on the springs f/r?

[BRUTUS]

that thing flexes awesome. nice work. did you use stock length springs or no? i read through the post and never seen what size they are and how much lift on the springs f/r?

Thanks for the compliments.

I know the front springs are stock length... 4" springs from Superlift. The rear springs are I believe 56" custom 2" lift springs. I would have to measure to make sure.

I'm wondering, since you have discs in the rear, did you have to modify the proportioning valve at all? Or are the prop. valve and master cylinder the stock ones? How well does it stop? My truck isn't going to be breaking any stopping distance records anytime soon and I'm thinking about swapping to disks in the rear, just need to know what else needs to change.

I haven't modified anything on the brake system before the axles. I think it stops fine. Compared to how it used to be... it is a little sluggish but... the tires are >100# each... I guess I don't expect SUPER brakes or anything. I am thinking I will go to my local brake shop and see if I can find a ball valve with NPT fittings that I can put on the front output only. The problem that I have with porportioning valves is that they are SOOO FINIKY because you are adding to the rear at the same time you are subtracting from the front and vise-versa. I think with a ball valve on the front line only... I can constrict the front brakes ONLY and dial them in so that all four brakes are working together. We will see.

lookin good man. love the stance on that thing.:thumbsup:

I love the stance too. I especially love how nicely a 38" x 16" tire tucks into the front fenderwell. I am only going to have to trim the front corners for FULL clearance. I am really happy with how it turned out. Now I can get on with my other projects:

Hydro Assist Steering (should get it welded on this week)
Front Driveshaft
OBA
Front & Rear Bumpers
Rocksliders
Rock lights
Track Bars
Shocks

[shadowjeep]

sounds like a plan. keep taking pics along the way.:thumbsup: i cant wait to see how it turns out.:D

[JpX]

Awesome pictures man that flex looks amazing and it's nice to hear the brakes work good too. I want to see Brutus parked next to Ethans M715 which is also pretty Tough looking.

I see the tailgate gapping while it flex's, is it completely installed and giving that gap or is the more to install on it?

Anyhow it's looking real good Jason.

[BRUTUS]

Awesome pictures man that flex looks amazing and it's nice to hear the brakes work good too. I want to see Brutus parked next to Ethans M715 which is also pretty Tough looking.

I see the tailgate gapping while it flex's, is it completely installed and giving that gap or is the more to install on it?

Thanks,

Soon enough I will get some pictures next to bigscaryjeep.

The tailgate is competely installed as you see it above. I actually think that somewhere on the passenger side of the bed the bedside is weak or rusting because the passenger side has always had alignment problems... they are just exaggerated by a square tailgate in between the bedsides.

I guess it is just another reason to take the bed off and make a truggy & bed trailer.

[Bama Burden]

looks great!

btw, glad I'm not dial-up:thumbsup:

[rustywagoneers_com]

awwwwwwwwwww yeaaaaaaaah

able to leap forklifts in a single bound!

:)

looking sweeeeeeeet

peace
Dave

[BRUTUS]

looks great!

btw, glad I'm not dial-up:thumbsup:

I probably did get a little carried away with the images huh... OOPS!

[NVJEEPER]

Wow yeah Brutus is looking real good. Pics are awesome keep them coming!!! Did the rf corner make contact during pic shoot? Can't wait to see the bumpers :thumbsup:

[BRUTUS]

Wow yeah Brutus is looking real good. Pics are awesome keep them coming!!! Did the rf corner make contact during pic shoot? Can't wait to see the bumpers :thumbsup:

Yeah it did. I will have to do some trimming. I think the root of the problem is that the STOCK spring pin location favors the front of the wheelwell by maybe 1/4 to 1/2". However it is only evident this is the case when you put a VERY large tire in there and can see the relationship up close. I am really happy with how they fit. It is hard to get a picture of the fitament with the fender flares there but there is like 2-3" gap between the tire and the fender well all the way around (except the very front corner). I will get the hydro assist hooked up and turn the wheel under full flex to see if it still clears. My thought is that it will but not by much.

Since the rear end was totally custom... they centered the tires in the wheelwells PERFECTLY so there is no issue with rubbing in the rear.

[j20brett]

Wow...that turned out great. pretty dang good flex as well. Def need pics of the bumpers when done!

[viscacha]

Nice pics.

Jason, don’t worry about that bed flex, it happens with a stocker too. The best thing to do is get a welding machine so you can keep up with the cracking. My truck held up fine for mild wheeling but started to crack everywhere after doing a lot of hard stuff. Even the stock muscle grille cracked up (can’t weld that). I always park on a flat spot so my tail gate doesn’t bind up.

I would drill your fabricator about that death wobble or get a tape and do some measurements. I can hardly believe that something isn’t out of whack unless your ball joints suck for big treads. Your front shackle is flattened out and it doesn’t lock?

My truck always had the shakes at certain speeds with the stock axle so I thought for sure I would have dw with the dana 60 and larger treads. During the soa mod I found my spring mounts were factory mounted way off alignment so I ended up grinding them both off and replacing them in the right spot and welded up square. Once I was done I test drove the dana 60 up to 50mph with no shocks, sway bar, ram, or stabilizer, and even with the soa 6”extra lift it was the best ride I ever had in my truck, a 100% improvement from stock. I am really sorry to hear yours is not the case. The ram assist will most likely eliminate the wobble but I would try and find out what is causing it like a good engineer. http://www.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

[BRUTUS]

My truck always had the shakes at certain speeds with the stock axle so I thought for sure I would have dw with the dana 60 and larger treads. During the soa mod I found my spring mounts were factory mounted way off alignment so I ended up grinding them both off and replacing them in the right spot and welded up square. Once I was done I test drove the dana 60 up to 50mph with no shocks, sway bar, ram, or stabilizer, and even with the soa 6”extra lift it was the best ride I ever had in my truck, a 100% improvement from stock. I am really sorry to hear yours is not the case. The ram assist will most likely eliminate the wobble but I would try and find out what is causing it like a good engineer. http://www.dakotacom.net/~jeepster/tipshades.gif

I would never guess that the front mounts were "off" from the factory. But that would explain things... as the lift guys told me that the rear is 100% square to the front rear hangers. If the front hangers are off though... ****! I don't think it is all that bad though... It has only death wobbled me twice and I have probably gone 150 miles. It ONLY happens after I hit a pothole... straight smooth roads... really smooth.

[NVJEEPER]

just put NOS on it to power thru those moments:D

[BRUTUS]

just put NOS on it to power thru those moments:D

The first time I read that I was thinking... New Old Stock.. Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley? Then I got it... very funny!:thumbsup:

[Brad W.]

lookin good buddy. We'll have to go wheelin if I can finish my heep over christmas break.

[DanHS]

Awesome! Looks perfect, just needs some touch up on the paint. lol. the black rims go good with the blue, it has just the right stance and look about it. I think the shop would have noticed if there was a problem with the spring mounts, perhaps the wobble is just from the weight of the big tires shaking after hitting something, a steering stabilizer or your hydro assist will probably smooth it out. Just keep an eye on everything and check nothing came loose or such. That Jeep is really a truck to be proud of now, I wish I had one like it.

[BRUTUS]

Awesome! Looks perfect, just needs some touch up on the paint. lol. the black rims go good with the blue, it has just the right stance and look about it. I think the shop would have noticed if there was a problem with the spring mounts, perhaps the wobble is just from the weight of the big tires shaking after hitting something, a steering stabilizer or your hydro assist will probably smooth it out. Just keep an eye on everything and check nothing came loose or such. That Jeep is really a truck to be proud of now, I wish I had one like it.

Thanks for the compliments... I feel the same way. I am actually sleeping much better now that it is back in the driveway. :D

I was thinking the same thing too... Steve has MTR's which would handle much better at 60mph than swampers ANY DAY! At this point I am really anxious to see what happens with the hydro assist hooked up.

Brad.. we will be wheeling soon enough! I have heard that there are some decent trails up in your neck of the woods. Not sure how many you have done down here. We will finger it out! wheelin' season is right around the bend, for now we have to suffer through SNOW BASHING season :D

[Ristow]

WOW! i think this is one of the coolest J trucks out there! no fluff,all business!

i like it alot!!

[BRUTUS]

WOW! i think this is one of the coolest J trucks out there! no fluff,all business!

i like it alot!!

Thanks!

[skydizzle]

that thing is sweet!!!!:fsj:

[oldcj5guy]

got to see brutus in person yesterday. I think I cold get everything unbolted and loaded in the back of my truck in an hour or two....

Looks great.

[JpX]

Yeah, thats one pretty sweet ride. :drivin: Tires aren't as noisey as I thought they would be. makes me wonder if I should get Truxus or TSL SSr's.

I hope your CJ likes the 360/T18A combo. I've never had so much fun as removing a Dana 20. Perfect excuse to use those crowsfeet I inhereted!

[BRUTUS]

I'm itching to see the NV/Stak combo, in there... is that still coming?

I found the site that I was reading when I thought "that would be cool" for the NV4500-stak interface. Looks like they improvised a conversion from AA using a dana 300 adapter to NV4500.

Anyways... I wanted to link to the article on this buildup for future reference.

http://www.johnarenz.com/STaK_NV4500.html

[Slick Willie]

Hey Brutus, did you ever get those square tubing driveshafts made?

P.S. I can't seem to find the thread we had going on that. :confused:

[orangecherokee]

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58504

[BRUTUS]

I have the milled yoke in the trunk of my DD right now. I need to get it welded to the smaller shaft. I still need to get the CV :sawzall: off the old driveshaft and fit it to the larger shaft.

I have more motivation now since I got a set of chains for Brutus last Friday... Now all I need is that front driveshaft.

[bigun]

I found the site that I was reading when I thought "that would be cool" for the NV4500-stak interface. Looks like they improvised a conversion from AA using a dana 300 adapter to NV4500.

Anyways... I wanted to link to the article on this buildup for future reference.

http://www.johnarenz.com/STaK_NV4500.html I read somewhere that overdrive trannys with the stak is causing problems it seems that some people have tried double over drive and are over speeding the bearing causing them to burn up!

[BRUTUS]

I read somewhere that overdrive trannys with the stak is causing problems it seems that some people have tried double over drive and are over speeding the bearing causing them to burn up!

Can you find where you read this? I am REALLY interested. I will search around too. Do you think it was on Pirate? I am curious how the guy in that link is doing with his setup. Last time I checked he hadn't posted any updates on it.

EDIT: I did some searching and couldn't find anything on this. I got to thinking about it... are you talking about the overdrive 3-speed Stak? I guess I wasn't aware that Stak had released these to the public. That is the only way I could think that you would run double-overdrive. I also had the thought that I can see overspinning the bearing if you had rediculous low axle gears (I have pretty fast gears with 4.56's and 38's) and tried to overcompensate for them on the highway with overdrive (or double overdrive). I guess I am not as worried about it now as I was when I first read your post. I will NOT be trying to get double-overdrive with the transfer case.

[bigun]

I'll see if I can find it, when I read it I went checked, and Stak was still making the OD unit.

[bigun]

Ok I spent some time searching and can't find it. I wouild suggest you contact Stak directly rather than depending on internet hearsy any way.

[rockjeep44]

Here's guys that daily drive their Stak. Not sure if this is the thread or not.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535877

[bigun]

Pirate is down for me right now so is Colorado4X4 Weird. The thread I was reading was several weeks ago if I remember right.

[shimniok]

I would never guess that the front mounts were "off" from the factory. But that would explain things... as the lift guys told me that the rear is 100% square to the front rear hangers. If the front hangers are off though... ****! I don't think it is all that bad though... It has only death wobbled me twice and I have probably gone 150 miles. It ONLY happens after I hit a pothole... straight smooth roads... really smooth.

This is probably a really stupid question but... does it have enough shock dampening for the unsprung weight? I only ask b/c if I set my adjustable shocks too low and disconnect swaybar, then hit a pothole at 45-50, the front tire that hits it oscillates rather uncontrollably and only slowing down stops it...

Michael

[BRUTUS]

This is probably a really stupid question but... does it have enough shock dampening for the unsprung weight?

Does ZERO count as a dampening value? :lol: JK

I have NO shocks on anything right now. I am of the feeling that IF this was a symptom of being UNDER-damped the tire would oscillate up and down (much like when a strut dies) because there is nothing to keeping the spring in check. However, my steering wheel oscillates side to side (this never happened when I had the stock axles, SUA, 33x12.50, and a steering damper also WITHOUT shocks). My feeling is that once I have the hydro assist hooked up... this won't be a problem for me anymore. The hydro assist will more than act as a steering damper.

I have gotten pretty good at "feeling" when it is about to happen and I can prevent it from happening by bracing myself to the steering wheel.

[Brad W.]

You should see this truck in town here do the death wobble... it's a chevy on rockwells and 42's... last time I saw it do it, he bounced from curb to curb across a 4-lane + center turnlane... good thing traffic was light! I no longer claim having helped build it, it's become far too hillbily-engineered for my tastes. only a matter of time before someone dies in, on, under, or near it.

Be glad your's isn't a whole lot worse! I'm betting the hydro will keep your steering tight.

[shimniok]

Does ZERO count as a dampening value? :lol: JK

I have NO shocks on anything right now. I am of the feeling that IF this was a symptom of being UNDER-damped the tire would oscillate up and down (much like when a strut dies)

Ah, didn't realize it was a side-to-side thing. Yeah I agree, hydro assist will undoubtedly help.

Michael

[BRUTUS]

Yeah, thats one pretty sweet ride. :drivin: Tires aren't as noisey as I thought they would be. makes me wonder if I should get Truxus or TSL SSr's.

I hope your CJ likes the 360/T18A combo. I've never had so much fun as removing a Dana 20. Perfect excuse to use those crowsfeet I inhereted!

I just got to reading through this and remembered that Tim had sent me pictures of the day I was over at his house. Better late than never

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/TimsJ10_4.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/TimsJ10_6.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/TimsJ10_7.jpg

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/TimsJ10_8.jpg

[Gambler68]

get flicked off yet by prius drivin hippies yet?


That looks AWESOME. I'm just wondering how you're gana fit on the trails at Ouray this summer :confused:

[BRUTUS]

get flicked off yet by prius drivin hippies yet?


That looks AWESOME. I'm just wondering how you're gana fit on the trails at Ouray this summer :confused:

Not sure if I have been flicked off yet. I don't pay that much attention to other drivers around me unless they have huge ta ta's.

I think it will fit fine on the trails of Ouray. I am not that much wider than I was before. Maybe 2-3" at the most. Obviously same length. Just taller. No real overhead obstacles to worry about.

[Slick Willie]

I don't pay that much attention to other drivers around me unless they have huge ta ta's.

Hahahahaha, I hear that man! :lol: :lol:

[cammofsj]

http://www.jasonhabrock.com/jeep/lift/images/fulllift2.jpg

http://www.jasonhabrock.com/jeep/lift/images/fulllift3.jpg

what year cugar is that 68?

[BRUTUS]

what year cugar is that 68?

Yeah it is. That is one of the mechanics. Pulled the motor out to rebuild the bottom side.

[fulsizjeep]

I think it will fit fine on the trails of Ouray. I am not that much wider than I was before. Maybe 2-3" at the most. Obviously same length. Just taller. No real overhead obstacles to worry about.

Well, when you get to the top of Imogene, you will probably be at 13118 feet in the seat when the rest of us will be a mere 13116 feet. :cool:

[bigun]

:funny: :lol::lol::lol::funny:

[BRUTUS]

Bump with an update.

I took a trip to Denver on Saturday to help with Shimniok's great engine swap-o-thon and to deliver my axles to "oldCJ5guy".

First, I was amazed to find that I got around 10mpg for most of the trip. I cannot confirm this because I am estimating the trip distance and the pump will overflow before it shuts off. I am REALLY happy with this.

Second, I had to lock up all four tires while oldcj5guy was behind me. My rears locked up before my fronts. Apparently my master cylinder and porportioning valve are capable of handling the 38" meats with 13" rotors. :D

I know you don't want all four to lockup at the same time. AFAIK you want the fronts to lockup before the rears right? Does anyone see any problem with the rears locking up before the fronts? I think it is an advantage because my steering wheels still have positive rolling control.

Third, I had a very loud exhaust this weekend and didn't look to see why until Sunday morning. Apparently on the drivers side, the rear three bolts on the header were GONE and the fourth bolt was loose. The two fronts were snugly in place. So I pulled the header, cut 1/2" out of the flange in two places, re-sealed with ultra copper gasket maker and re-attached. WOW what a difference. I will highly recommend if you are running Headman headers that you cut the flange before installing the first time because you will be doing yourself a HUGE favor in the longrun.

Fourth, I put a lighted switch in the cab to run the coil hot side. I would also highly recommend this mod. It takes a lot of guesswork out of ignition problems. It is also nice that I can start my truck up, remove the keys, lock the doors and let it warm up with locked doors. Very trick.

Fifth, I know I have read a couple of threads on here about what an electrical nightmare the floor dimmer switches are in these rigs. After having zero problems the whole day, as soon as I turned my lights on at night, I had a problem. When I stopped for gas (not sure on MPG at this point and my gauge hasn't thought about working for some time now) and tried to start it back up... nothing. Battery was dead. So after my roommate gave me a jump, I noticed that when I hit the dimmer switch everything went dim: headlights, interior lights, gauge lights. So at this point I am thinking it must be the dimmer switch that is the culprit. So my message to everyone reading this is
Change your dimmer switch if you haven't already because it will be the best $5/20 min upgrade that you can do for your DATED AMC electrical system!

[shimniok]

I know you don't want all four to lockup at the same time. AFAIK you want the fronts to lockup before the rears right? Does anyone see any problem with the rears locking up before the fronts? I think it is an advantage because my steering wheels still have positive rolling control.

I think with an unloaded J-truck that would be kind of normal. My GWag does the same tho, when loaded. A lot of it has to do with weight transfer. The only problem I see is with the rears locked there's a chance that the rig will want to go sideways and it can be a handful to keep it going straight, and so... if you had a little more bias up front so they locked closer to the same time, then you would get more stopping power out of the fronts before they locked up, if that makes sense. I'm with you; would rather have rears lock up than fronts as I think that is a more stable point from which to recover control.

Michael

[FSJ Guy]

What Michael said. Also, since it IS a pickup after all, the rear has less weight on it, AND since you're STOPPING, the weight transfer is going towards the front. That is why discs on the front are bigger than the rear on cars with 4 wheel discs. I've seen some rear discs that looked downright tiny. This is also one reason why I went with discs on just the front of the 715 and left the rear drums alone. (The other reason was $$)

I think your brakes are fine.

[BRUTUS]

Well this has taken just about long enough to complete...

I now have a front driveshaft ready to be installed this week.

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/frontdshaft.jpg

Still need to get a 1/4-28 tap for the grease zerks and the yoke straps for the front u-joint.

[Desert Beast]

square shaft looks good. i like the 3" on the end. i think im going to do that also.

you just running one on the front?

[BRUTUS]

square shaft looks good. i like the 3" on the end. i think im going to do that also.

you just running one on the front?

Yeah... I have my stock shaft in the rear with a 1310-1350 u-joint for the 14bolt.

I actually got the 3" tube for free. So I got that going for me.

[Slick Willie]

So let me get this straight. The front driveshaft is 1/4" tube with a tripple mechanical connection reinforced with welds with a 1310 CV and a 1410 front, but the rear is stock fingernail thick tube with a 1310-1350 split joint?

Do you predominately wheel in reverse? :rolleyes:

I tripple mechanical advantaged my front and rear (thanks to DB's elaborate post :thumbsup:), double passed the welds, put 1350's on both ends of the front, a 1410 at the t-case end of the rear, and the 14 bolt 1350. I figured all my torque will go to the rear, so the rear should be designed to be the strongest, and that the front should still be strong.

I know you know all this, and that you've probably though this over a few times, and maybe you plan on beefing up your rear driveshaft. But if not, I sure am dissapointed for reading this 11 page post over time, along with the 4 page Square Tubing DS post, where nearly all they talked about was beef, over building, captain overkill, etc. Eight $18 a piece 1/4" spring hangers, 1410 front yoke ujoint, tripple mechanical connection reinforced with welds driveshaft, 38.5" tires, stock rear driveshaft with conversion joint. That sentence doesn't seem right. :rolleyes:

[BRUTUS]

I will be getting a new rear driveshaft when I get the 14bolt 1410 yoke from high angle driveline and the 350-nv4500-stak 3speed installed. See sig... :D
I will have 1410s everywhere but the front stak output which will be a flanged 1350 CV joint.

I did the square tube front driveshaft now because I can design in enough slip to make up the length difference between the T-18 and the NV4500. after I add the Stak adapter to the end of the NV4500. FWIW... I have designed 3" of compression and 11.5" of extension in the front driveshaft.

Wheareas I have to do a splined slip shaft in the rear to keep a balanced driveshaft.

I think the stock driveshaft will hold up just fine for now. I will update after Moab.

PS: I talked with the guys that did my lift yesterday and they are of the opinion that I will be breaking wheel studs because of the infinite traction offered by the slickrock. Oh and I only got 4 - $18 spring hangers... :D

[75sewg]

hey brutus, how a better pic of the front drive shaft, is that regular reciever hitch square tubing?

[BRUTUS]

hey brutus, how a better pic of the front drive shaft, is that regular reciever hitch square tubing?

Yes it is seamless 2.5" x 2.5" x 0.25" receiver hitch tubing for the outer driveshaft.

The inner is 2.0" x 2.0" x 0.25" square tubing.

Here are the pictures of the driveshaft installed as of last night:

http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/frontdshaft2.jpg
http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/frontdshaft3.jpg
http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/frontdshaft4.jpg
http://www.fsjbrutus.com/jeep/images/frontdshaft5.jpg

Here is the thread that we discussed the square tube front driveshaft:

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58504

[jode]

PS: I talked with the guys that did my lift yesterday and they are of the opinion that I will be breaking wheel studs because of the infinite traction offered by the slickrock.

You'll probably shoot the blue moon and I may end up eating my words here, but I am thinking that there are other components that are far more likely to fail due to Moab's high traction before you break wheel studs. You see twisted driveshafts, broken ujoints and shafts, and other carnage far more often than broken wheel studs. Where'd they come up with that?

[BRUTUS]

You'll probably shoot the blue moon and I may end up eating my words here, but I am thinking that there are other components that are far more likely to fail due to Moab's high traction before you break wheel studs. You see twisted driveshafts, broken ujoints and shafts, and other carnage far more often than broken wheel studs. Where'd they come up with that?

They were referencing my HIGH gears... IE 2:1 in the D20 and 4.56 in the axles... They have a Toyota truggy with a marlin gearbox that puts their crawl ratio in the 160:1 range whereas I am in the 36:1 range as it sits right now gives the following: throttle = wheelhop = broken studs. I get the feeling that they blow a lot of smoke... literally and figuratively.

The more I think about it... I am gonna take it on some fairly mild wheeling this weekend to see how it does and get comfortable with the capability that it has... odds are that I will have to take alot of bypasses in Moab. My dad is already on standby with the F650 and tiltbed trailer that will be 2 hours away from Moab if I need a lift home.

[Desert Beast]

the first day is for shakedown runs. the rest is for wheelin.

we'll get you wheeling. :thumbsup:
you aint going to break those axles. comeon man, high zoot axles like that and your worried about breaking them? no way. :D

[BRUTUS]

the first day is for shakedown runs. the rest is for wheelin.

we'll get you wheeling. :thumbsup:
you aint going to break those axles. comeon man, high zoot axles like that and your worried about breaking them? no way. :D

First day for shakedown... SHEEESH... easy for you to say when you get there two days before I do... I am wheelin' when I get there!

Well, I am doing a shakedown run this sunday with some friends anyways. I am not worried about the axles, the driveshaft or the wheelstuds in all reality.... :D

Part of me wants to break something just to find the weak link but part of me doesnt... ;)

I do think the stock driveshaft in the rear is tougher than many give it credit for. It may be paper thin but it is like 4" OD tubing... Take a look under an F-350 and compare...

[Desert Beast]

Part of me wants to break something just to find the weak link ;)


that can be arranged. :thumbsup: :drivin:

[Slick Willie]

I do think the stock driveshaft in the rear is tougher than many give it credit for. It may be paper thin but it is like 4" OD tubing... Take a look under an F-350 and compare...

Drag it over a rock and report back to us on the strength. :D

I thouht maybe your new tranny/tcase was still a while away, so I was wondering about wheeling until you get that done. I guess you will have it done before you make too many trips out to the rocks.

[BRUTUS]

Drag it over a rock and report back to us on the strength. :D

I thouht maybe your new tranny/tcase was still a while away, so I was wondering about wheeling until you get that done. I guess you will have it done before you make too many trips out to the rocks.

Unfortnately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) I didn't touch one rock with my rear driveshaft. I hit rocks on my spring hangers, rear driver corner, tie rod, front diff cover (chipped some powdercoat off), 14b housing, 14b pinion flange and my front driver spring.

I have the new tranny (NV4500) in my posession right now. In talking to Garrett (Desert Beast) in Moab, I am considering getting a LoMax 205 and doing the 203-205 doubler, rather than try to machine my figure-8 chevy 205 and it would give me 3:1 in the 205 along with the thicker 205 gears.

All things considered, I couldn't have asked anything more from my drivetrain. I took the hardest lines I could find (except the end of Steel Bender after seeing the trouble that Garrett had with it. God bless the man who invented disc brakes. I was able to stop anywhere I wanted as long as there wasn't sand or loose gravel on the rocks.

[JpX]

Where's the pics of the carnage? Tell us whats it like to have a fencing match with your shifter while trying to wheel your rig?

MOAB is so much fun, can't wait to see the video's.

[BRUTUS]

Where's the pics of the carnage? Tell us whats it like to have a fencing match with your shifter while trying to wheel your rig?

MOAB is so much fun, can't wait to see the video's.

The carnage pics aren't really all that interesting... I mean the puller fan won't turn, the alternator won't alternate :D, the front passenger brake line is crimped with a vice grip, the motor mounts are still in there but they have seperated from each other. I could take pictures of the scratches on the springs but the scratches on the diffs were covered in mud when I did Hells Revenge.

I was having problems with the battery in my camera. I knew this before I left so I took my DC-AC inverter and my AC camera charging chord. Just to find out that my cigarette plug in Brutus works intermittantly. That coupled with the alternator being bad I kept getting a "low voltage" warning buzzer from the inverter. Scott charged my camera once and that helped. I was able to get a few photos and videos and I will post them tonight.

Krista got the best footage of Brutus when I was going up a pretty hard obstacle on Steel Bender, where most of the scraches happened.

Fencing with the shifter wasn't all that bad. The motor really wanted to return to its "cradle" so it didn't take much of an impact with my leg to get it to return to normal. After putting ratchet straps around the frame and mounts it was lots better.

[JpX]

I'll have to remember the ratchet strap trick. The nv4500 has took big hooking points that could be ratched onto as well if needed.

[wickedwagon767]

I do think the stock driveshaft in the rear is tougher than many give it credit for. It may be paper thin but it is like 4" OD tubing... Take a look under an F-350 and compare...
All it takes is a mediocre dent in that boogar and its gone!And ol Brutus is a long-bed truck......


If you go with the LoMax 205 behind a 203 rangebox you're going to have sick gearing options!

Is the Dana20 in it now all stock?

[BRUTUS]

Is the Dana20 in it now all stock?

yes it is.

[wickedwagon767]

yes it is.no probs with the small rear output shaft or the case cracking?

[BRUTUS]

no probs with the small rear output shaft or the case cracking?

I apologize... I have put the Advanced Adapters 32 spline output on it. Haven't checked the case for cracking yet. I will have to pull the case anyways to fix the seal at the T18. That is when I will check for cracking of the case.

I was very pleased with how it did in Moab. The 14bolt and the swampers had to put a lot of stress on the D20. It was up to the task this time.

[wickedwagon767]

I apologize... I have put the Advanced Adapters 32 spline output on it. Haven't checked the case for cracking yet. I will have to pull the case anyways to fix the seal at the T18. That is when I will check for cracking of the case.

I was very pleased with how it did in Moab. The 14bolt and the swampers had to put a lot of stress on the D20. It was up to the task this time.

www.tricountygear.com makes whats called a 'girdle' for the Dana18/20 T-cases that reinforces it from the bottom around the cover. Its only $85.

It'd give you some cheap extra insurance until you swap in what you want. I'm bolting it onto mine with the Advance 32spl output while I save up for Doubler parts

:thumbsup:

[Desert Beast]

side note-
have you been reading that paparazzi thread. god **** thats some funnay there.

[Desert Beast]

oh i got ya a trail rated badge also. :thumbsup:
pm me your addy and ill get it to ya.

[BRUTUS]

Garrett... PM will be sent shortly. I LOVE the paparazzi thread! I will check on it again today.

I have a bunch of updates for the Brutus followers:


Electric fans: I pulled both fans the other day, bought TWO taurus fans at PNS, a flex fan and a stock fan with a clutch... just to make 100% sure I had a fan and could run Brutus down the road. I cut the wires to the puller fan and removed it... wired it directly to a battery and it spun right up. So my conclusion is that the fan controller went bad or had a bad connection. I removed the fan controller and used the same wires to plug right into a 30amp relay and the puller fan works like a charm.
The plastic "linear zip tie" thingys that they supply with aftermarket electric fans SUCK DONKEY B**LS. Apparently the heat cycles from the radiator over time stretched them out so that the fan is allowed to wobble around in the radiator fins. After removing both fans (see above) I replaced the wimpy plastic with 1/4-20 bolts (that is how big the holes in the fins were), fender washer and double nuts. Both fans are VERY secure now and have no reason to wander anywhere.

Alternator:I exhanged my old alternator for a new one (love lifetime warranty) and put it back in. I also bought a backup alternator at PNS so I have alternator redudancy.

Brake lines:I was able to get a new brake line to replace the one that broke in Moab. I installed it and started bleeding the brake lines and it quickly became obvious that something was wrong. I thought there was just ALOT of air in the lines from the break. It turns out that the rear passenger side flex line had a hidden break in the line right at the caliper. So I replaced both rear lines with hardlines from the T-fitting out and will use the flex line that was on the drivers side as a spare for either of the front brake lines... again redundancy is the word of the day.

D20 transfer case:I was having some trouble in Moab shifting out of 4low and in typical fashion it was because the bolts that hold it to the T18 back themselves out. When I climbed under to tighten them up to restore shifting ability, I found out that the a mounting tab on the lowest bolt had broken off with half of the mounting hole.

Front driveshaft:The limited amount of time that I drove around in 4wd low with the hubs unlocked brought another problem to my attention... the front output on the D20 started screaming under acceleration. Apparently the front output of the D20 doesn't like the slop in the square driveshaft. One of these days I am going to remove the front driveshaft and add UHMW sliders to each face of the shaft to elminate the SLOP. Between the front output, the busted mount and the Jeep-leak trans/tcase seal I figured that I will just replace the D20 once I have a CATASTROPHIC failure with the old D20 from JPX (Tim)'s 383 vortec conversion.

Sorry that my pics aren't working anymore... I am trying to restore my domain and files right now.

[JpX]

Sounds like a good plan, you can use my old Dana 20 as a wheel chock until you get the Caddy Calipers w/Ebrake in. Hopefully JeePiX?? will be running soon. I still haven't named the beast. It's definately not scary like Brutus, it's more like unspinached Popeye!! But it's no Olive Oil or Sweet Pea I'll tell you what.

Hmmm Maybe it's just Jeep!!!

[shimniok]

First I want to thank you... :D That little trick with the brake line we did in Moab came in handy for me the other day when TC decided to blow out the left front brake line about 15 miles from home. :eek: I pinched it off and wrapped with bailing wire (being short a vise grip) :D Worked like a charm.

I may have to start carrying a spare set of brake hoses. Also a spare fan clutch. My general policy is to carry spares of anything that's failed on my rig or on anyone else's rig. Soon, I'll be towing a spare rig behind me :D

Thing is, lengthy repairs (alternator swap, water pump, etc.) needed on the trail require camping overnight. With the hope that after fixing nothing else major breaks the next day. It's probably still worth carrying this stuff so you have options, either to fix on the trail, or fix once you limp off.

Michael

[BRUTUS]

I can change out an alternator in under 10 minutes now... might have something to do with the 10" lift and 38" tires and lack of a front bumper. I have so much access in that area it is rediculous! Also having the electric puller fan means that I don't have to fish the belt around the fan.