opinion on rear coils, 3 link, graderballs, etc.

[Brad W.]

I've done a little research on pirate, but I want another opinion... what is your opinion of the graderball suspension??

I've been looking and drooling at the weld-on coil buckets made by BTF... and I think I'm going to go this route in the rear, since leaves are turning into a PITA trying to level them to the front with half YJ lift crap, half wag oem crap. From what I've seen, the Wild Horses coils seem to be prefered... any other good options out there? bad ones to stay away from? I guess I'm wondering about product quality of the various manufacturers.

I want to keep this fairly simple, so I'm thinking of a simple "A-frame" 3 link... simple enough for me to do alone in my garage, without a ton of bending and such. The front will remain leafs for now, I dont want to open that can of worms yet.

so that leads me to my next question... rod end? johnny joints? Rubicon Express flexball-type ends?

[Steelfish]

I like the RE johnnys, b/c the johnys run plastic races they wear and the R/E's you can tighten up about 3 times b4 a rebuild. I am currently using the Mountain Off Roads in mine, and well pretty much despise them as they came apart in the badlands on me. They are held with super tough snaprings and well with a snap ring they get enough force and I guess they buckle...and don't hold.
Just my .02. Don't know about the grader ball...however you can buy the R/E Tri Link ball seperate ;)

[orangecherokee]

i read a good thread on pirate about graderball suspensions ie 1-link suspensions. i think for the money they work well. you can make a huge skid plate for your bottom and get the flex you need out of coils. they're simple and easy but DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON THE GRADERBALL!!!! I saw too many posts about how idiots tried to do it with trailer hitch balls :rolleyes: Anyway, I always thought I'd like to give it a try if i ever got another vehicle just to try it out. i say go for it and let us know how it turns out.

[Brad W.]

I think I might have a line on a full rolling GM truck with the EFI drivetrain, so If this pans out, I'll have my engine/trans/case in in the next 2 weeks. Then do the D60 and be ready to button up the rear, hence my sudden interest...

I will look into ordering the BTF coil hardware on my next paycheck...

[orangecherokee]

personally i'd make my own coil stuff. if it's what i'm thinking about i don't see why you could make your own design and save a few bucks. don't get me wrong i went with BTF parts but it was basically a 4-link kit. i built my own buckets and mounts.

[rustywagoneers_com]

I will be going 1-link / wishbone / a-frame when time permits.

good enough for Unimogs (well, at least until the new ones)... good enough for me

peace
Dave

[Slick Willie]

Well, I just read about 10 pages from Pirate, AustinK5, and Blue Torch Fab about this whole ganderball idea. It seems pretty decent. But people keep talking about this 1-link business. Is this it?

http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={DE23C841-1CD2-491B-BBA5-B3ADB5483373}&exp=f&moddt=38251.4970040162
http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={183A4798-2CF5-4698-AAC7-DBE996DC4B43}&exp=f&moddt=38251.4971689468
http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={F3600074-DBCE-4E1C-8B9E-A92811F12FAB}&exp=f&moddt=38251.4974481713

Because both this jeep and that scout have the little link above the rear axle conecting the frame to the axle eliminating side to side movement. Would that still be called a 1-link setup? Are these pics (even though they have the ball and the little link on the axle) considered 1-link?

[orangecherokee]

yase. :thumbsup:

edit: that's a panhard bar. it prevents lateral movement and isn't considered a link. you'll see it on non triangulated 4-links and 3-links as well.

[BRUTUS]

I always thought that the panhard WAS considered a link...

Why go with the "ganderball" instead of one HUGE heim connection?

(go easy on me I am at work and haven't read anything about the ganderball setup yet)

EDIT: I love what that setup does for running brake lines...

[Brad W.]

If I use the ball, it'll look like the one in your pics. My other idea was borrowed from a smaller jeep I saw once, it had the "A-frame" the other way with one point on the axle and two on the frame. Still need a panhard, but that's cake.

upon searching I find two types of what I just mentioned. one with all hiems and a panhard, the other with spring bushings on the frame end so the "a-frame" cannot move side to side, and it also has two lower links. Not sure what I think of that second idea.

On a side note, those with coils, have you noticed wierd unloading phenomenon (manamana... doot-do-de-do-do) on side hills and wierd situations like that? I dont want to end up on my lid, perhaps I need straps or a currie swaybar thing?

[BRUTUS]

Can you post links to these articles Slick?... I keep gettin distracted when I get to the sites and I never find what I want to read!

[bigun]

Here is the quick result of searching grader ball on pirate
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?searchid=215396

[BRUTUS]

Here is the quick result of searching grader ball on pirate
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?searchid=215396

I guess I will have to join Pirate to 1) search threads 2) read the one you linked to Charlie.

Thanks

[Slick Willie]

Shoot, I logged in and still can't view it!

Here are some:

http://www.bluetorchfab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235977&page=3&highlight=graderball

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273512&page=2&pp=25&highlight=Scout+springs+running

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286956&highlight=graderball

[bigun]

I guess I will have to join Pirate to 1) search threads 2) read the one you linked to Charlie.

Thanks\
Unfortunatly because of the number of people who search there they have had limit the use of search to only those who have paid, but I am puzzeled if linked it should have let you see the linked article.

[BRUTUS]

\
Unfortunatly because of the number of people who search there they have had limit the use of search to only those who have paid, but I am puzzeled if linked it should have let you see the linked article.
nope

[Mikel]

\
they have had limit the use of search to only those who have paid


A rather interesting thing for a place whose favorite sport is to flame people who don't search before asking a question :confused:

[bigun]

A rather interesting thing for a place whose favorite sport is to flame people who don't search before asking a question :confused:
Last year during the whole Wenzel episode their membership tripled overnight with people wanting to comment o0n the episode. It was so bad their servers were going down almost everyday, they did I don't know how many upgrades trying to get a handle on the situation they finally decided the only way to calm the situation down was to limit the use of search to only those members who were subscribed. If you ever need it let me know I subscribed several years ago simple because I felt that the tech that was available there was worth the price. :drivin:

[Brad W.]

Just a quick btt to change my mind, yet again, lol.

I'm swapping a m715 frame into the wag, and moving the wheelwells back to take up the 14" difference in wheelbase over my wag now with the springs on backwards for length. I'm going to stretch the rear "bed" area to look right, and slice off the bottom of the quarters. The oem fenderwell curve inside the rear door will get boxed and made into a toolbox when I stretch the fenders. I'll use front door corners to square the rear door skins and make it look right. Hidden toolboxes will be a nice touch I think.

This way I can use a 4-door cherokee rear half and eliminate my rust problem, and have an easier panel to shave and use LED trailer lights in. It will still be crew-cab cut, but it will have a bed around 5ft. instead of the dinky 3ft sport trac looking bed with just the factory wheelbase and the roof cut.

Going to use the D60 from my old k-30, and use the D70FF I got for free, with a detroit in the back, and a disc conversion. Getting a k-case for my th400 and will build it with red altos, kevlar band, and big sprags. The np-205 will get the cable twinstick from northwest fab. I'm going to re-drill the adapter and clock it as flat as possible, and run a belly skid. Still looking for an EFI 350 sbc, I've already gutted the wag's harness from the firewall up. I'm going to use the 715 style light harness and a pushbutton switch from a humvee.

This is comming together finally, after some head scratching. I can't wait!

btw- the m715 frame already has the springs under the frame in the rear, and I will re-do the front hangers for the '79 era front springs (longer). Plus I get badass tow shackle mounts.

[shadowjeep]

the grader ball is a great idea. i will have to do some more reading on this setup. i dont know how i didnt think if this. has anyone here done this to a FSJ?

[jode]

Don't really have any comments to contribute, but I was just reading about this the other day and found this thread that I found to be very informative with some decent sources for the grader ball and images of several different rigs with the suspension, and their owners comments on the performance:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501998

[shadowjeep]

does anyone have any sources for the grader ball and keeper. i think i will attemp this later in the fall or early spring. i like the idea of the 4 inch ball but the 3 inch will probably work.

[jode]

...some decent sources for the grader ball..http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501998

:thumbsup:

[DanHS]

Wow, those graderball setup looks awesome, I like this one
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259896&stc=1&d=1156284892
So simple and durable, I wonder if the balls wear out though, I'd imagine that after each ride it would be wise to take the bottom of the keeper off and drop the link down to clean the keeper and ball. Maybe you can fashion a watertight boot from like a shock absorber boot to keep junk out. One day, I will have the time and tools to go build a nice crazy trail Jeep, I do have some rocks at the beach to rockcrawl on here. lol.

There's a list of parts in reply #35 in that last thread.

[Jubbs74]

I have been considering doing one of these suspensions set ups to mine, so yesterday I wanted to see what a grader ball actually was and how it was used on a Grader. I found one on the side of the road and I stoped to check it out. These things are used to attach the grader blade to the frame of the machine. the main mount is like an 8 inch ball and keeper. the other mounts which control the position of the blade are on the ends of the hydrolics rams and are the 4 inch balls. basically the blade has to be in such wide angles and constantly moving that it needs a pivot system that is super durable and flexy. after seeing the kind of wieght and force these things take in the origional application I think that there is no way any one using these for a truck application needs to worry about faliure or longevity. The balls on the Grader had zerk fittings on them and were oosing with grease. I think if you did that every time you went on a long haul you would be fine and never have to worry about losing a pivot.

good luck with the build up and keep us updated for tips and succeses.


RJ

[shadowjeep]

the grader ball is a great setup, looks fairly easy and affordable. this in one mod i will be doing within the next few months. does anyone know of a source for the grader ball and keeper. i have done some searching but the only thing i have found is a 3" ball but no keeper.

sorry to hijack the thread.

[Jubbs74]

http://68.98.202.103/weller/form.htm

4" Ball #31035
Cups #31509

these are the part numbers i got off a thread on pirate
I have not called to confirm or deny accuracy of the part numbers

hope it helps
RJ

[the glassman]

ok guys let me chime in here alittle.

my rig isnt a jeep but i have "one links" front and rear and i looked into the "grader ball" , trailer hitch , and big *** hiem joint.
The grader ball systems are nice,beefy,and expensive, most of the g-ball settups where around 250 to 350 bucks:eek: , way to much.

The trailer hitch set up does work but you need to be dam sure you use
2 1/2 inch gooseneck balls and a good quality hitch setup.Around 250.00 in the end.

the johnny joint stuff works great but doesnt last very long before needing rebuilding.

i ended up using a 1 1/2in aurora hiem on mine and some quallity high missalignment spacers and love them 75 bucks out the door.:thumbsup:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2184000-2184999/2184553_4.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2184000-2184999/2184553_11_full.jpg
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2184553
use the link to see the rest of the pics ...dont flame for some of the pics;)
you just need to use heavy heavy heavy springs and stiff shocks because if you dont on a heavy rig you will get a extreamly tippy feeling while climbing. And also make the links as long as possible and you have to have limiting staps or you will pull your shocks apart,dont ask how i know this..lol. *** soon as i get some pics ill show you how i made a safety strap to keep the axle under the rig if the hiem ever gives out.

SORRY THIS POST IS SO LONG BUT I HOPE THIS HELP.........EDDIE:drivin:

[the glassman]

I also have vids of me testing the suspention as soon as i can get them hosted some where. The buggy weighs in at around 6500lbs with a bb ford 460.

[jode]

i ended up using a 1 1/2in aurora hiem on mine and some quallity high missalignment spacers and love them 75 bucks out the door.:thumbsup:
Listen man, it is absolutely unacceptable to post something like this without posting the source where you bought them.:D

Seriously man - we need more info!!!!:cool: What is the rating on that heim, and do they make em any bigger?

PS - LOL at calling it a 4 runner :p

[the glassman]

MM-T & MB-T, AM-T & AB-T Large Bore Series Male Rod Ends, General Purpose & High Strength - Precision - Ptfe Lined

Body (M-Series) - Alloy steel, protective coated for corrosion resistance.
Body (A-Series) - Alloy steel, heat treated, protective coated for corrosion resistance.
Race - Carbon steel, Ptfe lined.
Ball - Alloy steel, heat treated, hard chrome plated.
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifhttp://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifhttp://aurora.thomasnet.com/ImgMedium/a1071.jpg (http://aurora.thomasnet.com/item/ll-products-commercial-male-rod-ends-english-units/al-purpose-high-strength-precision-ptfe-lined-1047/am-24t?&seo=110#)http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif
larger image (http://aurora.thomasnet.com/item/ll-products-commercial-male-rod-ends-english-units/al-purpose-high-strength-precision-ptfe-lined-1047/am-24t?&seo=110#)

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifhttp://aurora.thomasnet.com/ImgMedium/a1072.jpg (http://aurora.thomasnet.com/item/ll-products-commercial-male-rod-ends-english-units/al-purpose-high-strength-precision-ptfe-lined-1047/am-24t?&seo=110#)http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif
larger image (http://aurora.thomasnet.com/item/ll-products-commercial-male-rod-ends-english-units/al-purpose-high-strength-precision-ptfe-lined-1047/am-24t?&seo=110#)
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif
Specifications Part Number

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifAM-24T
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifThread Type

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifRight Hand
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifThread Configuration

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifMale
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifB - Ball Bore [inch]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif1.5000
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifW - Ball Width [inch]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif1.375
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifH - Head Width [inch]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif1.125
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifA - Base to Center [inch]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif5.375
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifD - Head Diameter [inch]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif3.500
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifBall Dia. [inch]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif2.312
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifC - Thread Length [inch]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif3.000
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifThread Size

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif1 1/2-12
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifThread Class

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifUNF-3A
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifa - Misalignment Angle Clevis Mounted [degrees]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif8.75
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifUltimate Radial Static Load Capacity [Lbs.]

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif136,427
http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gifApproximate Brg. Weight [Lbs.





http://aurora.thomasnet.com/plp/mm/spacer.gif4.75

[the glassman]

them are the hiems i have for my one link. when we got them they where 75.00 each not sure how much they are now.:drivin:



http://www.aurorabearing.com/

[seamus]

Would the graderball be street legal??

[the glassman]

Would the graderball be street legal??

one links can be scarrrry on the road. you better get a hefty swaybar because your rearend will unload on you quite a bit when you try to corner at any speed.
most suspensions are illegal if you ask the right person.
besides whos going to look under your truck to tell you it is illegal.:cool: