Lo buck J-10 Truggy

[FSJeep80]

I`ve started a low buck J-10 project and I thought I`d see if I can get some tips/suggestions. This is gonna to be a *trail ONLY rig*, trailered a few times a year to Paragon and Rauch Creek.
I recently picked up an `80 J-10 shortbed, 304,AT,727,208TC, D44/20,3.31 (posi in the rear), $300 :) . The 304 runs good (for a 304) but the body is just about falling off from rot. The plan is to scrap the bed,front fenders,doors,rockers,much of the A and B pillars (to narrow the body). I plan to keep the windshield,upper A pillars,stock dash and some of the roof skin as well as the top of the cowl,firewall and the hood cut to the width of a Gladiator grill in front. Then we`re gonna do rock sliders,full cage,tubes through the firewall to the front frame/rad support,to the rear of the frame rails etc. We`ve got all the equipment for that stuff and we`ve done many cages for EC4WDA race Jeeps so that`s not a problem. The stock plastic gas tank will probably end up on top of the rails behind the "cab". I know it`s not necessary to get this carried away but building something a little radical (but cheap!) is half the fun! I already have a lifted XJ to wheel with if I want "normal". ;)
But I`m not sure what to do for a low buck lift that`ll have decent flex,what size tires I can get away with on those axles etc.
The stock springs are still in good shape and I`ve heard they flex pretty well. I`m thinking about 4" of lift to get more clearance under the TC. I wouldn`t do this on a street truck but how about cutting the rivets off the stock spring hangers in front,welding boxed 2x4 square tubing under the rails,plate the sides and weld the hangers back to those for a 4" lift? In the rear there are extra holes in the front spring hangers about 3" below the normal ones. I`d just need to weld a plate on the inboard side with an appropriate hole. At the back I figured to make new shackle mounts (the stock ones are rotten pretty bad anyway) and fab some beefy H style shackles for a total of 4" of lift back there. For now I have a set of used (of course!) 33-12.5 Cooper ATs but I`d like to go to 35s if the axles will handle them. I`ve always been pretty easy on equipment and I have a spare `81 J-10 parts truck for spare axles etc. Any ideas,tips or suggestions are appreciated. FSJeep80

[JavaJeep]

Photos would be nice

Interesting to see what shape a $300 rig is in

[rustywagoneers_com]

well.. i know i will get flamed, but if/when i can finally do a trail only rig for myself, i will do a one-link with 1/4 ellipticals.
search around, do a google website search of pirate for 'grader ball' and 'wishbone' you will find oodles of old-school simple stuff that will flex like mad, and not stretch / collapse driveshaft splines

peace
Dave

[jode]

But I`m not sure what to do for a low buck lift that`ll have decent flex

If there is no body to get in the way of the tires, Why lift it? Why not just go to the biggest tire you can afford (I'd say up to 37" since the weight should theoretically be very low) and weld the axles and call it good.

That's the ultimate low-buck in my book.:drivin:

[bigun]

The link for the write up on the building of Crom complete with pictures is in my signiture


http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Users/bigun/jeep%20build%20pics%20276%20Small.jpg



http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Users/bigun/jeep%20build%20pics%20276%20Small.jpg

[FSJeep80]

Dave,actually I built a front wishbone setup with coil springs for a buddys XJ a few months ago. It flexes like crazy and drives suprisingly nice on the street too even with 8" of lift and 33s. BTW 8" of lift doesn`t look like much on a little XJ,it`s still no taller than a new stock F-150 4x4. I don`t want to spend a lot of time and effort doing that on a 44/20 combo though. I may go that way eventually when I dig up some 1 ton rears for cheap.

Jode,I just want to get more clearance under the center of the Jeep than just the taller tires will allow. I`m hesitant about welding the 1/2 ton rear(s) with 33/35s. I`m gonna run it with the posi in the back until it pukes.

Bigun, I LOVE IT! :thumbsup: I like the scoop too. I have a `75 TA shaker scoop for mine. :) FSJeep80

[jode]

Then your plan to drop the leaf spring mounting brackets a few inches to provide lift is very sound. That is basically the same concept that Riverbeast's rear shackle flip is, and it provides like 7" lift.

[derf]

I would check the size on that engine. A 304 didn't come from the factory. You might actually have a 360. The way to tell is look at the block under the motor mount. The size of the engine is cast there. A 304 could have been swapped in but you might actually have a 360.


Regardless, for lift I would look at doing a spring over conversion in the front and a shackle reversal in the back. Do a search on SOA and shackle reversal on here and you should find a lot of good info. That conversion isn't hard if you can fabricate a little. It lets you keep the stock flexy springs and puts you about 6-7" higher in the air. The on-road drawbacks to the conversion aren't really a problem with a trail only vehicle but a high steer conversion is a must.

With a serious weight reduction that comes with an off-road only vehicle, a J-truggy could handle 37" tires without too much trouble. You may want to save up for alloy shafts in the front (and probably rear). The stock rear AMC20 axle can be beefed up enough for not much investment. Changing gearing would probably be the biggest up front cost. You can go up to 4.88 gears in the AMC20. Check out my gear ratio calculator (in my signature at the bottom) to see how different ratios affect your vehicle. For a trail only vehicle, I'd look into putting a spool in the rear (or welding the spider gears). I'd do a selectable locker (like an ARB) in the front to both keep the stress off the shafts as well as giving you better turning radius. If you don't have the budget for a selectable locker, a detroit in the front would be better than a spool for turning purposes.


Whatever you do, take pictures of your project and share them.

[Geeeep]

Something like this?

http://www.charm.net/~dwpitts/2006 PA Jeep Show Day 1 (FSJ)\images\p1000138.jpg

From the PA Jeep Show last weekend. If I remember correctly this one based in Maryland. Lot's of room for tires when you take away a lot of sheet metal.

[pitjeeps]

i watched that one at pa last week nice rig. we started a cheap wheeler for the wife. this is with 31s have 35s now.

[bigun]

one of the things I would do different is I wouldn't have bought the M715 fenders other than the tires they are the most costly thing on the truck because of shipping! After they got here we saw how easy it would have been to make our own.

[FSJeep80]

Derf,you`re absolutely right it was originally a 360. The previous owner put the 304 in after the 360 spun a bearing. I have a 360 in the `81 parts truck with headers,Edelbrock intake/carb. It runs nice and doesn`t smoke but it`s oil pressure hot isn`t too great. I`ll probably do a quicky bottom end rebuild/high volume oil pump and save it for a spare but the 304 should pull it around for now. I`ve been considering a spring over also but I may hang loose and run it for a season or two with just the relocated mounts/fabbed shackles and see how the rears hold up.

Geeep,yep like that but more so. No OE front fenders,no OE rockers,no door jambs and a tapered "bikini" hood with CJ hinges. I should be able to reduce the total width by about 10" (including the OE flares). The front header panel will be cut down to the width of a Gladiator grill,no headlights. I was gonna loose the whole top of the cab too but a buddy convinced me to keep the windshield,A pillars and the distinctive J truck "unibrow" :D so it still has it`s identity.

It goes under the knife Saturday so I`ll take a few before and after pics to post. I hope to get the bed,doors,inner and outter fenders, bumpers,hood etc. off at least. I`ll pick away at the lift,cage and tube work etc. each weekend but I want to have it on the trail in Sept. :drivin: FSJeep80

[rustywagoneers_com]

just some of how i like to do that.....



http://www.rustywagoneers.com/doorcut.JPG

http://www.rustywagoneers.com/rockermnt.JPG

the rockers were replaced with 3x3x 1/4 angle

http://www.rustywagoneers.com/dogleg_rt.JPG


took about 6 inches off the dogleg.... line it up with the corners of the tailgate hinge / bumper area.







Peace
Dave

[bigun]

While getting ready for Ouray, Craig was checking fluids in the transfer case and such he made the comment that we are going to have to finsih box the frame since it is the only thing that drags on the rocks.

[Aaron871]

Here's mine...

http://www.jeepgod.net/graphics/trips/2006/aaron%20at%20kodak%202.JPG


http://wreckincrew.org/graphics/crew/aaron.JPG

[JeepNOFEAR]

Now that's badass :D

[FSJeep80]

Well we got a LOT done today. I took before,during and after dig. pics and I can`t view the stupid things! :banghead: I keep getting an formating error message. I was able to see them on the computer at the shop and printed two out so I`ll try it there again and if it doesn`t work I`ll do a scan of the before pic and just take some more after pics.

Back to the Jeep though. I had some help and we got the bed,doors, fenders,hood,grill off. I trimmed the sides off the rad support and cut the outter cowl,door jams,rockers and outter B pillars off. It took off 9" of total width at the rockers and added about 4.5" of ground clearance there. I`ll loose a little of that when I weld the tubes in place but not much. We left the back of the cab intact for now. I dunno I may leave it and put the main hoop behind it with the roof bars running through it. I had it out of the shop in it`s new chopped condition but I couldn`t play,with the inner fenders and batter tray gone (the inner fenders will be trimmed and put back on BTW) the only place I could find to put the battery where the cables would reach is bungie corded to the top of the aircleaner. No offroading like that! :eek: Hopefully I can post some pics tomorrow. FSJeep80

[Sambo]

:worthless:
lol just messin with ya! :D

[FSJeep80]

Awesome pics guys. I love the 715 with Rockwells! You`re great inspiration. Aaron,where`d you get that nice big plastic storage box? I`m looking for something just like that.

Sambo,you`re right! Here they are!

My description of narrowing the body was probably a little hard to picture but you can see it clearly here. In the one front view you can see it with the DS narrowed and the Pass side stock for comparison. Like the new battery tray? :rolleyes: That`ll end up behind the cab,on top of the frame with the stock gas tank. More pics when I get more done. FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-001F-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-003F-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-005F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-006F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-011F.jpg

[Sambo]

very nice start:thumbsup:

[Geeeep]

What are you doing with that short bed?

[BRUTUS]

Now that's badass :D

100% agreement here

[FSJeep80]

Geeep,sorry that one got scrapped. It was worse than it looks in the pics. We have another one from our `81 though if you`re interested. FSJeep80

[Geeeep]

My current bed is completely flow through but from 10' it looks great. Thanks but I have a spare already.

I just thought that a lot of people on here might have been interested in it. Often what's a write off for one person is the perfect part for someone else.

Geeep,sorry that one got scrapped. It was worse than it looks in the pics. We have another one from our `81 though if you`re interested. FSJeep80

[Aaron871]

Aaron,where`d you get that nice big plastic storage box? I`m looking for something just like that.



Wal-mart, make sure you install a plywood floor in it after you install it in your cab-truck. Anything heavy bouncing around in there will blow out the floor and create an artificial "chum line" of tools and parts attracting other jeepers.....

[FSJeep80]

LOL! Roger that on the plywood floor. :D

I got the seats back in today and welded a battery tray to the front frame rail temporarily so I could drive it around a little. I took it out back to climb up a rock pile and get the mandatory pre lift flex shot and it was pretty lame. The shocks limit the travel big time and I think the rear shackles and wide spacing of the rear springs hinder it too. When I eventually put 1 tons under it I`ll probably move the perches inboard a few inches. Anyone have tips on getting better flex using the stock springs? The posi sucks. It worked okay on flat ground but climbing on uneven terrain it went away. Time to Lincoln lock it (if I can get inside the posi case enough to do it). FSJeep80

[Aaron871]

LOL! Roger that on the plywood floor. :D

I got the seats back in today and welded a battery tray to the front frame rail temporarily so I could drive it around a little. I took it out back to climb up a rock pile and get the mandatory pre lift flex shot and it was pretty lame. The shocks limit the travel big time and I think the rear shackles and wide spacing of the rear springs hinder it too. When I eventually put 1 tons under it I`ll probably move the perches inboard a few inches. Anyone have tips on getting better flex using the stock springs? The posi sucks. It worked okay on flat ground but climbing on uneven terrain it went away. Time to Lincoln lock it (if I can get inside the posi case enough to do it). FSJeep80


Inboarding the springs will give the axle better leverage on the springs. Then make sure the shackel and shackel angle are productive for travel. Cut any "bands" or "wraps" that keep them from seperating.

I suggest wheeling the piss out of your springs 8 or 10 times before you make any changes to the spring pack itself, they will loosen up.

If you still think it's too stiff take a spring out, or "rearange" the springs in the pack.


These are stock 5/4 ton springs and shackels inboarded



http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1434711-MA-2URE023re.jpg



I have since went to Rustys 1.5" lift shackel..... and cut the bands that hold the spring pack together.


http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1435522-shackles003.jpg


http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1435524-shackles005.jpg

[Slick Willie]

http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1434711-MA-2URE023re.jpg


I had to take a double take, but those ARE kegs! Exhaust? On board Air?

I looked at you other pictures (along with that J-truck) and saw a Green GW with High Steer and a skinny rear drive shaft, but I didn't see any pics of him on the trails. :confused:
http://www.jeepgod.net/graphics/trips/2006/neil%20on%20the%20trailer.JPG

Sure is a pretty wag though! :thumbsup:

[jode]

Anyone have tips on getting better flex using the stock springs?

As you noted, it was the shocks that were limiting the travel. I think you will find that all you need to do to get sick travel is to install longer shocks in a configuration that will allow maximum articulation (usually like this /\ ), extend your brakelines, and then remove any body that is in the way (you are already doing that part). Try it and you may be surprised at how well those stock springs flex. ;)

[FSJeep80]

Okay so I`m on the right track at least. New spring clamps that allow leaf seperation in droop,longer shocks mounted farther inboard and canted,and new longer rear shackles mounted to the rear of a new crossmember (the back 10" or so of the frame are rotted pretty bad so it`s flyin) are all part of the current plan. What`s the best shackle angle for good articulation? FSJeep80

[Slick Willie]

New spring clamps? Explain what you intend to do there. I would cut the clamps. For flex purposes, that is.

I don't have experience, but I know what makes sense to me. So if you have your shackles and the leaf springs (both that you're going to use), measure the actual length of the spring (not eye to eye with arch, but actual length of metal). With that measurement, put the rear shackle eye (where the rear of the spring attaches to the shackle) maybe .5" less far from the front spring mount. Wherever the front of the shackle touches the frame or wherever you're going to attach the shackle, that's where you mount your spring mount. That way, under full compression of the spring, the rear shackle will be almost level backwards. That would be the maximum it would flex with fully stuffed springs, and thus allow maximum droop.

You may not be able to visualize what I'm saying, but hopefully you do.

[scotty]

http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1435524-shackles005.jpg

wow. long shackle,big axle,single shear mount for the shackle

you dont worry about bendin that sucker off the frame if you flex it just enuff? :eek:

wow.

[scotty]

almost forgot,fsjeep80,lookin good :cool:

[Aaron871]

Those are "fuel kegs"

I'm not worried about the single shear shackel bolt, no.

To be fair, that isn't a pic of the finished product. I'll try to post something in "readers rigs" as to not hijack.

[shadowjeep]

Here's mine...

http://www.jeepgod.net/graphics/trips/2006/aaron%20at%20kodak%202.JPG


http://wreckincrew.org/graphics/crew/aaron.JPG

hey aaron, werent you at the southern shine crawl in harlan ky. i think it was you anyway. i camped not 30 feet from where it was trailered on sunday. i looked around for the owner(you) but never did see you anywhere.

[FSJeep80]

Slick, yeah I`m gonna fab some clamps up from flat stock just to keep the leaves from fanning out horizontally. I`ll use the U style with the crossbolt up top and make them extra tall so they allow for full droop without binding up the springs.
I was thinking along those lines for the shackles. It looks like 5" center to center should work out well for that configuration and the 4" lift I`m shooting for.
Hopefully the temp will drop below 100 freakin degrees by this weekend and I may get some more work done on the rig. FSJeep80

[Aaron871]

hey aaron, werent you at the southern shine crawl in harlan ky. i think it was you anyway. i camped not 30 feet from where it was trailered on sunday. i looked around for the owner(you) but never did see you anywhere.

yup... blew the tranny up on Sat.

[82j20]

nice rigs dudes

[scotty]

To be fair, that isn't a pic of the finished product. I'll try to post something in "readers rigs" as to not hijack.

sounds good,post a link to whatever pics you put up somewhere when ya do,id like to see em :cool:

might want to just start your own "pics of my rig" thread in off road discussion,sounds like quite a few here would like to see it

[FSJeep80]

Got a little bit of work in on the ol Jeep today. Torched the rear shocks off and cut all the spring clamps off. Well...it still ain`t exactly a super flexy rock rig. Look close at the left rear tire. :p Maybe after I redo the shackles I can pick up some more. Gotta finish trimming the body and such first... FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-010F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-0122.jpg

[jode]

Thanks for posting the pics. I have to admit that I am surprised. Of course, you don't exactly have a whole lot of weight back there, and the shocks are still on the front, right?

Now try this, cut the leaf clamps on your leaf springs and bend them up so that the leaves can fan out a bit.

PS - how many leafs are in each spring pack?

[FSJeep80]

The rear springs have 5 leaves and the clamps are all cut off. The front springs have the back clamps off but the 2 front ones are still on (I forgot about em ;) ). You`re right that there`s not much weight back there. I could push down on the raised tire and push it down to the ground pretty easily.
On the bright side I have the hood cut and one of the internal brakes modifies,fit and welded. I think it looks pretty wicked myself. I`ve got quite a bit of work to the hood yet (including cutting the hood for the TA shaker scoop/snorkle) but at least it`s starting to take shape as I pictured it. I`ll post pics as soon as I can get them to upload...stupid computers... FSJeep80

[jode]

If you end up running that thing with that little weight in the back, you might consider pulling a leaf or two to soften them up and compensate for the lower weight of the rig.

You might also check out the famous 63" chevy springs swap (search Pirate) ....although I read the other day that someone said J10s have 68" springs...but that just doesn't seem right, and I haven't had time to go measure my J20.

[FSJeep80]

Nah I won`t be running it that light in the back. It would get old filling the 1gal. gas tank every 15mins. In fact I ran out of gas posing the truck for those pics! :o It`s getting a cage structure back there,stock gas tank mounted over the crossmember,spare tire out back and a big storage box behind the cab. It outta flex a lot better with that weight back there. The new shackle design probably won`t hurt either.
Here are a few pics of the "bikini hood" in progress. Note my (temporary) high tech hood retention system. Heh,this thing just keeps getting more ugly every day! It`ll look a lot better with the cut down inner fenders,scoop installed and cage/tubes/stinger done. Naturally the shaker scoop is just sitting on the hood for the pics but you get the idea. The visibility is great with the bikini hood and no fenders! :thumbsup: FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-012F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-013F-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-014F-1.jpg

[ncjeepers]

That's a heck of a chop job... I like it!
You consider throwing a rhino grille in there?

Here's another one for your consideration.
Some of you may recognize "Sick Puppy".
It now belongs to a buddy of mine.
The bob-job, rear suspension, and bed were done by the PO.
We did the SOA/high steer on the front.
It's not pretty, but it works so good I'm getting ready to build another one very similar to this one.
http://www.geocities.com/ncjeepers/Puppy_Flex.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/ncjeepers/Puppy_Flex2.jpg

[FSJeep80]

Cool rig! :thumbsup: Yep I`m planning on a rhino grill. It`s just screamin for one.
Your rear crossmember/shackle setup looks a little like what I`m planning to build for mine. Do you have any pics of the back end? What`s done to the suspension to get that kind of flex out of it? FSJeep80

[ncjeepers]

Better pic of the back...
http://www.geocities.com/ncjeepers/rear_flex.jpg

As you can see, the PO installed a stacked shackle arrangement that allows the rear springs to drop and twist.
It works OK, but could use some refinement.
The front is a straight forward spring-over using Waggy springs. It flexes really well, but is somewhat limited by the shocks. It could do even better with some shock length/mount tuning.

[82j20]

:eek: Better pic of the back...
http://www.geocities.com/ncjeepers/rear_flex.jpg

As you can see, the PO installed a stacked shackle arrangement that allows the rear springs to drop and twist.
It works OK, but could use some refinement.
The front is a straight forward spring-over using Waggy springs. It flexes really well, but is somewhat limited by the shocks. It could do even better with some shock length/mount tuning.

nice dude.......but those rear shackles look scary:eek: .........makes me think should i rip the box off the 20 and do a deck????????????????????

[Jubbs74]

Better pic of the back...
http://www.geocities.com/ncjeepers/rear_flex.jpg

As you can see, the PO installed a stacked shackle arrangement that allows the rear springs to drop and twist.
It works OK, but could use some refinement.
The front is a straight forward spring-over using Waggy springs. It flexes really well, but is somewhat limited by the shocks. It could do even better with some shock length/mount tuning.


What size tires are you running?

[sickpuppy]

36x12.5-15

[BRUTUS]

36x12.5-15

My guess is 36 x 14.5 - 16.

[Bama Burden]

i dunno Brutus, those look pretty close to my 12.50's ;)

[Slick Willie]

2nd the 36 x 12.50

[BRUTUS]

i dunno Brutus, those look pretty close to my 12.50's ;)

I just know that my 16.5 TSL's look much more like 14.5 TSL's so I figure the same with the 14.5 looking like a 12.5. If only NCjeepers was here... hmmmm...

Also.. is there any way that is a 15" rim and not a 16" rim? looks awful big in perspective to the tire to be 15" IMHO.

[Slick Willie]

36" on a 15" rim:
https://webspace.utexas.edu/jwr55/LHOR/Den%20Run%2011-6-05/Den%20Run%20052.jpg

[sickpuppy]

Let's settle this. It is my jeep. 36x12.5-15.

[ncjeepers]

Next one is gonna have 38.5" Boggers if nobody buys 'em!!!

[waggin'ear]

Let's settle this. It is my jeep. 36x12.5-15.

Are you sure?

This is the internet and I think that they are 35.987653449999's

LMAO

Kinda made me laugh when people were arguing with you.

[BRUTUS]

Sorry... I missed the part where NC mentioned that it was sick puppy's truggy. I thought we were guessing the size since NC hadn't posted... my bad.

[FSJeep80]

No new pics yet. We got some work done on the truggy today but not as much as I would have liked. New rear brake lines,important but yawnnnn. Removed the A.I.R. pump and plumbing. I continued the delicate and highly precise task of narrowing the other side of the cab until the torch ran out of oxygen. The biggest progress was planning out the cage and exo bars and picking up all the tubing as well as some 1/8" plate for skidplate material. I also found a nice length of 4"x4"x.250" wall square tubing for the rear crossmember/bumper and a `61 Suburban gas tank that fits into my plans for the build a lot better than the original plastic amoeba tank. I`m planning on mounting it just behind the axle and flush with the bottom of the frame rails. With 36" tires and the planned 4" lift that puts it about 27" above the ground. I also grabbed a locking plastic box at Wally World about 27"x18"x18" or so. I`m planning on putting one on each side just behind the cab with the battery box between them. Hopefully next weekend I can finish the cab chopping and get started on the tube work. I have about 4 weeks to get it done before my friends take their next trip to Paragon. :fsj: FSJeep80

[ncjeepers]

git 'er done!!!

Good luck with those plastic storage bins.
We were in URE this past weekend when a truck with one of those boxes took a nice bounce on a rock. He had at least 200lbs of tools and spare parts stored in that plastic box. The box exploded and turned the trail into a redneck yard sale!!!

[FSJeep80]

Oh man,sucks to be him. These boxes seem to be fairly sturdy (famous last words!) but I`m still mounting them in a framework of steel angle and expanded metal just to be safe. I still have room behind the seats in the cab to store heavier stuff too. I`m gonna weld some simple boxes to the floor to toss things like gloves,bag of beef jerky and such in and another in between the seats to hold a small cooler which will double as an armrest. Just because it`ll be hideously ugly doesn`t mean it can`t be comfy. :thumbsup: FSJeep80

[jeepzilla47]

i have a storage box like that, it is where my back seat used to be, i got mine from wal mart for about 40 bucks...

[FSJeep80]

No new pics yet but we`ve made some more progress. The shifter shaft seal in the trans was leaking like crazy (had to put at least half a quart of fluid in it every time I moved it!). It`s nice and dry now. Cranked up the line pressure a tiny bit and adjusted the bands while we were in there. Serviced the rear and welded the spiders (MillerLocker!) I finished chopping the cab too. From here on out it`s more building than chopping. :D We`re coming down to the wire now,the wheeling trip we`re shooting for is on Sept. 9th! That gives us one 3 day weekend to get it all done. Thrash time. FSJeep80

[FSJeep80]

Well it`s getting there. The lift is about done. Still have to mount the longer shocks and final weld some stuff (running low on argon). I lopped the end of the frame off,mounted a new crossmember and made new longer shackels with heims for better flex (I hope!). The front uses 2x4 steel tubing welded in between the frame and original perches. The approach angle isn`t too hot but it was quick and easy and we can always redo it later. Got the recovery points on too. Total lift a little over 4". Tomorrow,mounting the gas tank,shocks,relocating the battery behind the cab and starting the exo cage tubes tubes tubes! :D FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-016F-1.jpg

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-012F-1.jpg

[scotty]

im not quite sure i understand the logic in your front lift,but i do like the heim joint shackles. if im picturing it correctly,you could leave the jam nut off and then the shackle part could twist alittle on the threaded heim part. clever :thumbsup:

ill definately be watching for reports from you on how they work and how they old up :cool:

[pitjeeps]

how about some close ups of the front lift, sounds like a good idea on the rear shackles, i like to see people think out the box weather it works or not. good job!

[FSJeep80]

Scotty, you`ve got the right idea with the rear shackles. The heims allow about 25* or so of twist on their own or I can just loosen the jam nuts if I want more. I can`t wait to see how they work on the trail! The idea behind the front lift is pretty simple. I wanted to get 4" of lift to match the rear,do it in 2 hours or less and do it for free so I just dropped the perches at both ends of the springs 4". I`m sure I`ll end up changing it later but hell it`s just metal. :) I at least wanted to use a 2" bracket drop and fab some 2" longer shackels for more flex but I didn`t have the time.
The cage is about 1/2 done. The rock sliders,main hoop and door bars are in. Ran out of argon so some of it`s just tacked at the moment. The gas tank I planned on using has a rust hole in it so I`m going back to the plastic Jeep tank. That wasted some time but I have the brackets welded in. I fabbed a new shock crossmember in the back,hacked the mounts off the bottom of the axle tubes and welded them to the top of the tubes for better ground clearance. I put some used Superlift shocks on,canted inboard for more flex travel. Up front I`m just gonna buy a pair of cheap ProComp shocks for a J10 with a 4" lift. I was hoping to have a lot more done but that`s how it goes. 4 days left to get it done,doh! :eek: FSJeep80

[scotty]

. I wanted to get 4" of lift to match the rear,do it in 2 hours or less and do it for free so I just dropped the perches at both ends of the springs 4".

thats what i thot you had done. at first i thot it was gonna wreak havoc with your approach angle,but after some thot,i dont think it will really be any worse than it would with a stock front shackle mounted under the frame where its sposed to be. distance from the tire contact patch to the bottom of that shackle will be the same,wether the shackle is on the frame,or spaced down 4" from it. youll hafta let us know how that works out for ya,as well. :)

if the rear holds up well for ya,hafta fab up a set of them heim shackles for the front,too :cool:

[Zac]

Lookin good except one thing I am not sure about. I was just thinking since you cut your spring clamps I think you will have a whole lot more axle wrap. I may be wrong but I thought that is one of the reasons they are there. keep up the good work.
Zac

[FSJeep80]

We`ll have to see how the approach angle works out. It`s the same as stock with 33s. It may turn out to be an issue because our buddys have their sights set on some rock garden fun for this trip and they`ll be driving TJs and XJs with much better approach angles.
I don`t think axle wrap will be a problem since under throttle the front of the spring is wrapping upwards anyway. I`ve been wrong before though!
Got a little more done on the beast today. The bar over the windshield and "unibrow" is in and one of the long rear bars. The main body of the cage is fully welded now. It`s starting to get some attitude now. :D
We canned the J10 gas tank again and decided to patch the other one. It just fits better. The gas tank is mounted now and hooked up. Having more than 1gal. of gas is gonna be cool! Tomorrow we`re gonna try to finish the cage,front brake lines and wire the new battery location. Fri. I have to build the rear cargo platform,mount the cargo box (still haven`t picked up a second one) and battery and probably 7 or 8 things I haven`t though of yet. ;) . Then bright and early Sat. morning :drivin: :fsj: I hope! FSJeep80 PS. More pics soon!

[CowKiller]

where exactaly in se pa are you located?

[FSJeep80]

Cowkiller,Coopersburg just down the road from you.

Well we got it together enough to run it! The exo cage is only half done,the hood is held down with a ratchet strap,nothing`s painted etc. etc. but we ran it anyway. :D We spent about 5 hours today on the trails at Paragon. The only problems we had were the master cyl going bad (by the end of the day the pedal was creeping down pretty bad which is rather exciting on steep downhill sections!) and the pass. seatbelt buckle required 2 men and a boy to get unlocked. Other than that it was great and did suprisingly well! I thought the worn on wuss tires would be a real problem but even they worked fairly well (thanks in part I`m sure to the welded diff in the rear). It almost went over on one section. In one pic you can see a yellow tow strap being used to hold it. I wish I had a pic before they started puling it down. As you can see it could articulate a little better. ;) That`s one of the next things to work on. Still we made it through a bunch of blue trails and even tackled a small stretch of a black trail. That was tough but we made it without jacking,moving rocks or needing a tow strap. Not bad for $400 worth of junk. :thumbsup: Hope you like the pics. FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-019F.jpg

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-013F-3.jpg

[82j20]

nice beater dude:thumbsup: :fsj:

[scotty]

i like it! great pics :) surprised you went anywhere on them little bald tires ;)

so your heim shackles held op on the first run,do you think they gave you any more flex? or are you still being limited by shocks or some other factor?

do you drive it or trailer it to the trails?

[CowKiller]

it's trailered scotty, that thing would never be legal in pa. lol

[FSJeep80]

Thanks guys. Yeah,it`s trailered. The cops around here would have a field day with it on the street! I have an XJ I can take when I want to drive to the trail but this rig is a LOT more fun. :)
The bald 33" Cooper Discovery tires were a big suprise. They spun a lot where it was slimy but worked suprisingly well everywhere else. They`re flyin anyway though for some 35"+ meats with actual tread. I can`t get over how tiny 33"s look with no bed/fenders!
The heim shackles held up great but they didn`t do much with the current spring setup. I mounted the shocks to allow for about 1/3 jounce travel and 2/3 droop travel and watching them (no bed in the way :D ) while someone else drove I could see it was using the jounce travel but very little droop travel. The shackles had plenty of travel left so I`m not sure why it doesn`t flex much. I`ve always heard these spring flex very well,maybe it just doesn`t have enough weight to make them work?
I was a little worried about the approach angle. Overall if wasn`t much of a problem but in the section below it was. In the last pic,there`s a big rock to the left of the LF wheel. On the first line we took through,the spring would sit on top of the rock and keep the tire from getting too it. Must have tried it 6 or 7 times and it just wasn`t workin,finally had to get pulled back and tried a higher line. Made it on that one thanks to 2 strong friends hanging onto the tow strap. :rolleyes: FSJeep80

[jode]

I can`t get over how tiny 33"s look with no bed/fenders!

Amen - needs 40s :D

[Bama Burden]

That thing looks great on the trail.

I'm with Jode, get some 40's and show us what carnage is all abouthttp://www.caos4x4.com/cmbs/Smileys/default/blob1.gif (javascript:void(0);)

[FSJeep80]

40s would be cool but I dunno how the 1/2 ton rears and 3.31 gears would like em! I`m shooting for 35s,36s (mil. hummer),or 37s (ideal),whichever I find CHEAP! ;) The bigger meats are a must.
Gonna focus on the nitty gritty for now. New master cyl. (brakes are a good thing),some competition belts (the pass side buckle sticks and drove us nuts),remounting the rear shocks for more jounce travel and finishing the exo cage and front end.
Then I think we`re gonna try taking the 2 shortest leaves out of each spring pack in an effort to get more flex out of it. I have a Rockcrusher front diff cover on the way and I`m going to skin the gas tank area,sides of the cowl and the triangular area where the doors used to be with sheetmetal. Maybe a little set of tubular flat fenders up front too (small enough that they can`t be seen from the driver`s seat). Then a coat of forrest green drab paint (correct color for a Jeep M715). A buddy who`s a military vehicle collector dropped off a box of military taillights,blackout lights and military vehicle fittings and widgets to ad the final touch. Voila M715 truggy! Well sorta... :thumbsup: FSJeep80

[FSJeep80]

Mini update on the springs and heim shackles. I was talking to my buddy who organized our last trail ride and he mentioned that the truggy seemed to flex better and better as the day went on. His guess was that the spring packs were rusted together and wheelign it broke em free. I was curious how much it changed so I took it out back on the same stone piles I flexed it on earlier (pics on p.2) and drove it a lot farther up the pile and the rear tires stayed planted. It`s no super flexy rock buggy but we got about 2ft. of vertical flex out of it. The RR shock was totally bottomed out. Once I relocate them I think it`ll flex a little more yet. Now that it`s flexing better the heim shackles are doing their thing. They deflected about 10* to the side and I could see the rear main leaves were twisted less than the front ones even though they were allowing more travel. I don`t know that it makes a huge difference but I guess it was worth doing. FSJeep80

[landbruiser1]

Any new pics of that exo? Sweet build so far, keep the pics and updates coming..

[FSJeep80]

Sorry no new pics yet. I haven`t had much time to work on it lately (too much real work!) but I did get a few things done. The radiator was a new one that I owed a friend so I swapped it out for another one that`s not so new. I figured the exact layout of the rest of the bars and insulated the floor with Lizard Skin spray on ceramic coating I had left over from another job. Finished the mounts for the HiLift (they were kinda hokey before) too. Not big stuff but as least it`s something. I have to dig in and get the rest of the stuff done soon though we have another trip coming up mid. Nov. We`ll probably finish them up the night before....:rolleyes: FSJeep80

[FSJeep80]

Had the Truggy out at Paragon AVP again yesterday. I love that ugly beast. :) Since my last post we added some bars in the exo cage up to the front with a real rad support and a dia. to the main hoop. Patched some holes in the floor,changed the master cyl. (wheeling was less exciting but a lot easier/safer with brakes!), changed the seatbelt that was stuck (little change but annoying as hell when it wouldn`t release!) and most noticably we exchanged the half bald 33" ATs with half bald 35" MudKings ($75 for 4). The truck worked great,we did mostly blue 2 and blue 3 and one short black 1. We didn`t have to get pulled once and even made it cleanly through a section (same line) that had a CJ7 on 33s with dual ARB lockers stuck for 10mins. The motor is a little smokey,especially when it`s cold so we`re gonna put a stack and rain cap on it to get it out of the faces of the guys behind us. I`ll may run it next season yet with the 304 "Ol Smokey" and do a quicky freshening up on the 360 AMC spare motor I have for later on. I was suprised how well it worked with 3.31 gears and 35" tires. The springs have loosenend up a LOT,it flexes really well now. The only real issue with it is that with that gearing it`s hard to modulate the throttle on the rocks. I`m gonna try altering the throttle cable/linkage ratio to slow the opening of the throttle blades and add more total throttle pedal travel. We`re goin again on the 25th. Gonna try to have that done,find a 35" spare,trans cooler and fab a M715 style grill. I`ll post pics of the trip as soon as my buddy e mails them to me from his digital camera. FSJeep80

[82j20]

:worthless:

[FSJeep80]

I finally got 2 pics. I should have more pics and a short video tomorrow. As you can see the new tube work is pretty ugly but it gets the job done and it was all the pipe we had left laying around. Still a lot more to do there. Note in the flex pic that while the front suspension is about flexed out the rear still has both rear tires planted pretty hard and has more travel in it. Have to find a bigger rock next time. More pics to come. :) FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/jeep01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/jeep002.jpg

[jode]

Good to see that the springs loosened up a bit...that thing is BEGGING for some decent tread though...

I bet it gets some funny looks from the soccer moms :p

[FSJeep80]

You`re right about the tread! We`re trying not to spend more on tires than the rest of the truck though. It really should have a set of Boggers or LTBs but beggars can`t be choosey. ;) If we can find a set of 16.5 wheels for cheap we may go with military hummer 36" RTIIs. Here`s a couple more pics and a video (if it works). A buddy was making a big deal of going through this mud so I did it in a little different way. :thumbsup: FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/jeep005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/HPIM0497.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/jeep003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/HPIM0468.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/th_jeep015.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/?action=view&current=jeep015.flv)

[rustywagoneers_com]

hey, here's your 16.5's as a 6-lug steelie, for 65.50 a copy, brand new...

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog&categoryID=304

scroll down and find item number 1350105

peace
Dave

(i have been plotting and scheming to use some of these also)

[jode]

Have you thought about going to longer shackles in the rear? Or are those shackles special due to the orbital thing? I think (just MHO) that a longer shaclkle might allow the rearend to flex a bit easier. Just a thought...

[Slick Willie]

Mud? That looks like water to me. :rolleyes: But hey, at least you made it through it with those racing slicks.

[FSJeep80]

Thanks for the link to the 16.5 wheels. They`re 6.75" wide but they`d be perfect to use BTF bead locks on,they widen them 1". Hmmmm.

The shackels are a lot longer than stock already. They`re screwed in all the way so I can get at least another inch out of them if I want. I may try that. If you look close though they`ve got plenty of travel left.

Yes,okay that`s (muddy) water. Forgive my semantics. The later section of the trail was (let me get the proper terminology here) thick goo though. Consistancy like thick oatmeal. We went through that up to the rock rails for about 50yds. and didn`t get stuck at all. I was pretty impressed with how well the new slicks worked. I`m sure the Miller Locker helps a lot too. :) FSJeep80

[Slick Willie]

Where did you get that Miller Locked sticker? That is essential for welded diff'ed vehicles. :D

[Thumpszilla]

I would like to see better pics of your rear shackles if you would post some.

[Thumpszilla]

They sell lincoln locker stickers on ebay.

[FSJeep80]

I knew you guys would appreciate the sticker. I`ve seen the Lincoln Locker stickers and while,admittedly it sounds better we`re big Miller fans so that wouldn`t do. I made it myself. Had a big Detroit Locker sticker from SEMA. Found a Miller logo online,enlarged it and printed it out on sticker paper then trimmed and stuck it on the DL sticker then laminated the whole thing. Took twice as long as making the heim end shackles! :rolleyes:
I`ll see if I have any close ups of the shackles. They`re pretty simple I just cut the stock shackles (didn`t even take them off the springs!), welded a plate on top then cut down a 5/8" threaded steel sleeve,welded that on,gusseted everything and screwed the heims in. Voila. :) I think I`m gonna do the same with the front ones. If you look at that first flex pic the PS main leaf is twisted pretty hard,the heim/shackles should reduce that a little bit. FSJeep80

[amcfever]

scuse me if i've missed something, but hwere is the exhaust on that beast?

[FSJeep80]

In the pics it was under the cargo platform with a turndown. Yes going backwards in the water it may have pushed water up the pipe. That`s why I stayed on the gas! :) It`s got a stack complete with rain cap now. Sounds kinda cool at idle...clink...clink-clink...clink :thumbsup: FSJeep80

[FSJeep80]

Had the ratty ol beast out at Paragon again on Sat. It was a great day! Sunny,just a little chilly. A lot of the trails were a water/mud fest. For those who know Paragon,11 was so muddy they had Caution signs posted at a few places. I`ve never seen 11 so muddy,heck it`s just supposed to be an access road. Water holes everywhere too. It was awesome! We did Chicken Run(Blu2),M Trail (Blk.2),Trail 25 (G3),Whompum (Blu3),Rattler (Blk1) and a few others. The truggy worked great. We were with an XJ with 8" of lift and 33" Truxxus MTs and a TJ with 5" of lift and 35" BFG ATs. We had no problems with places were the TJ got stuck. I`m sure the MillerLocker helped. ;) We did fine until the end of the day at the play area. I let my buddy Ray drive while I took pics of the other guys wheelin. He`s big into hill climbing and just had to do all of the bigger ones. That was fine until he tried to go down one with a huge gully about 2/3 way down. The dirt collapsed under the RF wheel and...flop. I`ll have more pics of the recovery later. Took an XJ with a snatch strap (broke one!),a Ford F250,a CJ-7 with a winch,2 60" HiLifts and about a dozen guys to get it out. To to pit all off the XJ damaged the steering about 10mins before and broke the tie rod off while trying to help recover the truggy. Oh,and all this happened about 45mins. before the park closed! It was quite a thrash. Drove both vehicles out of the park though. :drivin: The only damage to the truggy was the heater blower motor case and the steering stabilizer. All in all,good clean fun! :thumbsup: FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/pics410.jpg

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/th_pictures037.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/?action=view&current=pictures037.flv)

[landbruiser1]

Looks good. How much if you dont mind, have you spent for the build so far?

[FSJeep80]

Thanks. Well we were supposed to pay $300 for the truck but it was one of those pay me when you get it things. In the mean time the seller decided he`d rather just exchange work for the truck so we`re working it off with an oil change here and a set of brake pads there. So we might have $100 in it plus a little time when we`re done. Chopping it apart was almost free (sawzall blades and oxy/acetelene),say $25. Had the stuff laying around to do the lift and shackles so they were free. The old 33s came with it (sold those for $50). Payed $75 for the 4 balding 35s that are on it now. Sold the old Western aluminum wheels that were in the bed for $50 so that`s an outlay of $25. Two ProComp 4" lift shocks $72. Two old Superlift shocks, free. The tube for the exo,plate for skids and expanded metal were expensive,about $250. Cargo box was $29. Gas tank was free. D ring recovery hooks were $18ea. MillerLocker,free. Raincap and exh pipe and hangers for the stack was around $40. Replacement master cyl. was $17. I think that just about covers it. FSJeep80

J10 Truggy,$580 dollars Beating the snot out of it, Priceless! :thumbsup:

[FSJeep80]

Haven`t had much time for 4 wheeling the last few months but I have gotten a few things done on the truggy. Tires with tread are the biggest improvement. 38x12.5 TSLs. Also added a RockCrusher front diff cover and pured up a few things. The exo still isn`t done and rears/gears are on the agenda. Also got some work done on the J-10 tow vehicle "Old Joe". Believe it or not it has 44,000 actual miles on it. Wheeling trip tomorrow. I`ll try to post a few pics. It`s not a trick rig but we sure have a lot of fun with it. :D FSJeep80

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-007F-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-003F-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-005F-1.jpg

[FSJeep80]

I`m still waiting for my buddy to e mail me pics from the trip. I have a few lame ones in the time being. This trip was at Rausch Creek Off Road Park. It`s set up differently than I`m used to (Paragon) with mostly Green (mild) trails that have short loops of harder trails (Blue,Blue Black,Black and even Red) off of them here and there. We hit all the Blues and Blue Blacks and a few Blacks but the crew we were with (7 vehicles) had a few rigs that found even the Blues a challenge so they had to sit it out when we ran the harder stuff. 3 of the 7 rigs broke with 2 axles and a ring and pinion failure as well as 2 broken shock mounts and some pretzeled steering linkage. The Truggy was great though,no problems,didn`t get stuck,had a good time. :thumbsup: FSJeep80
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-005F-2.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/MarcusUSA1/MVC-001F-2.jpg

[JeepKahn]

I recognize that rig...What's she look like now???