maximum carnage weekend, time to upgrade?

[4x4fEvEr]

went wheeling this weekend and i believe i broke stuff from the front to the back. we went on a pretty newly opened trail in mountain city, tn and i had first run up which i was doin pretty good as we had seen only one cj on 44's make it as far as me with no assistance. well i get to the winch spot and my rig is givin my 9000lb ramsey platinum a hell of a strain even with my assistance, anyways get past that spot go on up to another tight spot and all of a sudden we hear a little plink noise and it was my driveshaft dropping to the ground. well i ripped the shaft right off the weld, im assuming a bad weld or atleast not good enuff for 5000lbs under strain. i remove the driveshaft to winch out in 2wheel drive, get in another tight spot and blam, my winch imploded, i guess the gears busted or something but it took out my winch. now a dodge with a 12k milemarker is pullin me up while im in 2wd and i end up sliding over and wedging my rear passy tire between a rock and a tree im givin it gas while hes pullin and we hear another snap and i bust a rear shaft so now im down to one wheel drive. took 6 hours to get me out off the trail 6 hours to pull me no more than 65 feet. this trail was mean.

now. time for upgrades. suggestions. i know everybody is gonna say get a 14bolt or a 70 but i dont want to relocate my gastank i like the offset 60. i can get 35spline chromos for a good price are they any bigger than standard 60 shafts (1.31?) ive got a back up winch, but its 9k as well, do i need to step it up to a 10 or 12k winch? and third my squaredriveshaft shoulda held up front. just weld it better next time??

http://www.4wheelingcentral.com/albums/album122/acd.jpg
http://www.4wheelingcentral.com/albums/album122/ace.jpg

[JeepsAndGuns]

Looks more like the tube split down a seam. Mabey it was a bad peice of tube. Mabey a thicker peice is needed.
If you blew up your 9k winch, I think a stronger one would be a good idea. Just remember to upgrade your mount to handle the extra power its gonna have.

[Stuka]

As far as I know, you cant put 1.5" shafts in a J20 D60 as the hubs dont have enough meat (they have to be machined larger to fit the shafts, but then there is no meat left for the hub to stay strong). And yes, stock shafts are 1.31" (same as a D44).

You found one of the week points of a square drive shaft. The corners are inherent week points. It looks like The corner started to give which then caused the weld at the carden joint to fail.

As for the winch... what do you expect for a chinese made winch? Get a warn ;)

[4x4fEvEr]

As far as I know, you cant put 1.5" shafts in a J20 D60 as the hubs dont have enough meat (they have to be machined larger to fit the shafts, but then there is no meat left for the hub to stay strong). And yes, stock shafts are 1.31" (same as a D44).

You found one of the week points of a square drive shaft. The corners are inherent week points. It looks like The corner started to give which then caused the weld at the carden joint to fail.

As for the winch... what do you expect for a chinese made winch? Get a warn ;)


yeah i knew i had to machine them out for 35 spline shafts, but u say it will no longer be strong? im sure if the shafts are still 1.31 they will atleast be without the taper on the shaft like the stocks ones have.

yeah weak points suck. i screamed warranty on that driveshaft so im gettin it fixed for free, plus a spare made.

i got my winch for a song on ebay and well i guess i got what i paid for. my spare is a superwinch so really its no better. i think im gonna go for a MM12k its slow but im not racing :drivin:

[youngjeeper]

yeah i knew i had to machine them out for 35 spline shafts, but u say it will no longer be strong? im sure if the shafts are still 1.31 they will atleast be without the taper on the shaft like the stocks ones have.

yeah weak points suck. i screamed warranty on that driveshaft so im gettin it fixed for free, plus a spare made.

i got my winch for a song on ebay and well i guess i got what i paid for. my spare is a superwinch so really its no better. i think im gonna go for a MM12k its slow but im not racing :drivin:


I have to agree with Stuka..get a Warn! We have put our 9500hs Warn through HELL. I have been stuck againest banks by a rock..hooked up the winch to a tree, and it pulled the jeep along with the rock..out of the freakin bank.

[4x4fEvEr]

I have to agree with Stuka..get a Warn! We have put our 9500hs Warn through HELL. I have been stuck againest banks by a rock..hooked up the winch to a tree, and it pulled the jeep along with the rock..out of the freakin bank.


how much does that winch cost? for the price can you beat the MM 12k?

[Dmntxn77]

how much does that winch cost? for the price can you beat the MM 12k?

I say go with the MM... Warn or not, that extra 3K is worth more to me...

Of course, what do I know... I have a Chicago winch (Harbor Freight baby :D)

[Stuka]

I say go with the MM... Warn or not, that extra 3K is worth more to me...

Of course, what do I know... I have a Chicago winch (Harbor Freight baby :D)
Whats better, a 12k lbs winch that breaks or a 9500 warn that will outlast the truck? The MM is the exact same winch as a ramsey, so the quality will be no different. What he experienced is not unheard of.

[Bama Burden]

Isn't the MM the same as the HF?

[FSJ-Earl]

Go WARN or GO HOME! I have an Warn 8274 and I played winch wench ALL day last year at Camp Jeep, I pulled 30+ rigs over the course of 6 hours up a NASTY steep, rocky, wet, rutted 75 foot hill and I had NO problems at all.

[KaiserMan]

What about a D60HD? Didn't they come with 35 spline 1.5" shafts? Couldn't you just use the hubs and internals from one and have some custom shafts made to work with your D60?

[Stuka]

Jeep D60's use a different flange than ford D60's (which came in HD versions). So the hubs wont transfer over (to my knowledge). The only D60 that I know of that used the same flange as older GM D60's.

[KaiserMan]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 7 bolt vs what, 4 bolt for ford right?
Would have been neat. Did any of the ford 60hd come off set to the passengers side like Jeep?

[4x4fEvEr]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 7 bolt vs what, 4 bolt for ford right?
Would have been neat. Did any of the ford 60hd come off set to the passengers side like Jeep?


thats a good question. any other offset d60's? or an offset 14bolt or d70. i think jeep is the only fools crazy enuff to build an axle around the gastank instead of building the gastank around the axle.






the guy in our club with the MM12k has pulled my *** out everytime i break which is usually evertime (still finding my weak links) and its still a pretty good winch to me. im willing to try a warn, if the price makes it worth it that is. would the 9500 handle my jeep uphills even pulling dead weight?

[Stuka]

hmm.. You could get a van 14FF (which is like 72" WMS or something) and have the passenger side cut down so that its only 67" WMS (like your current D60) which would basically make it an offset axle. Then you would have a 10.5" ring gear and 1.5" shafts.

EDIT: Or... you could just move your fuel tank instead of building an axle to go around it :P

[4x4fEvEr]

hmm.. You could get a van 14FF (which is like 72" WMS or something) and have the passenger side cut down so that its only 67" WMS (like your current D60) which would basically make it an offset axle. Then you would have a 10.5" ring gear and 1.5" shafts.

EDIT: Or... you could just move your fuel tank instead of building an axle to go around it :P


hahaha. i so dread droppin that tank and relocating. plus im against 14bolts just cuz i have no reason. maybe ill get a d70. which is better 14ff or d70? and where the hell do i locate the gastank?

[KaiserMan]

The 14b and the 70 are pretty much equal as far as strength goes. The 14 bolt is easier to find and cheaper. I remember reading somewhere that the 70 is actually just a hair stronger then the 14b, don't remember where or why though.

I hear you about the 14b. I'm a Dana/Spicer alxe man myself, for no real reason.

Relocate your gas tank where the spare tire should go. Under the body behind the rear axle. You can fit higher capacity then stock tanks back there.

[4x4fEvEr]

i think i read somewhere a xj tank would work right there. i soppose i could break down and do that. i was gonna down my jeep for winter and do an engine rebuild and install a np435/205 and a front ford 60 but my 60 has fell thru. guess i could beef up the rear and move the tank and just find spares for now, but i really dont wanna mess with that tank.

[learfxr]

As for the winch... what do you expect for a chinese made winch? Get a warn ;)

I can't speak for the last few years, but I worked at Ramsey's only manufacturing facility in '98 while in school. It's located in Tulsa Okla. At least it was then. And the only thing that left that facility with a name other than Ramsey was Jerr Dann, that's the name you'll see on the flat bed tow trucks alot. I worked on the drill press line and on a few machines while in school for my aircraft mechanic license. Ramsey owned another small company in Tulsa that made the little cranes that you mount in the bed of a truck to lift barrels and such. I think the name was Auto Crane. Not sure if they got bought out since then, but they were not foreign owned or produced another line of winches while I worked for them. I hear a lot of bad things about the products now, I would have expected a better product from them. They seemed like good parts back then.

[Stuka]

The part of ramsey that does commercial products is different than their consumer based products from what I know. The current line of winches for pickups are not the quality of their past stuff. I know of guys with older ramsey winches and they hold up fine.

Although the new low end Warn winches (they dont use the warn name, but rather are called 'Tabor' are not of the quality of the high end warns either, and only have a 1 year warranty rather than a limited lifetime warranty).

[baja]

Originally posted/posted:
Originally Posted by KaiserMan
Did any of the ford 60hd come off set to the passengers side like Jeep?

Yes. late 60's early 70's Ford Econoline 3/4 ton vans. (snub nosed ones) Pumpkin is off set to passenger side at least 6" maybe more, it's been along time since I messed with one. They came with 1.31" dia. shafts, but they have beefy spindles. Usual 3.54 to 4.10 gear ratio's however we did find one that had 4.56's from the factory.
Ford also used dana 70's in the back of some vans also, so there "might be" some off-set 70 rears out there too.

baja

[rockjeep44]

Dude, two things.

1) Quit whining and get rid of the coffin tank. It is a POS. Once it's empty it is so easy to drop. The thing is plastic or something, not heavy at all. Then spend $150 on a cell from Summit or Jegs and you're done.

2) Get a Warn HS9500i. They don't make that model anymore because they make the gay as hell 9500ti or whatever which is a POS in my book. Way too much electronics and fru fru crap. The straight up HS9500i is a friggin beast and the price is reasonable since they have a newer model out. I think it is the best winch Warn has ever made since the 8274. A 9500 is plenty for your rig for any situation. I ran that winch on my Wagoneer and now my buggy. It's a brute.

[rockjeep44]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Warn-HS9500i-9500lb-Winch-Snatch-Block-Tree-Saver-Cover_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33653QQihZ016QQit emZ260013007184QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

And it's in Murfreesboro. Anything further? ;)

[orangecherokee]

i also think you need to ditch the coffin tank. i got rid of mine a long time ago and was very pleased. If you're worried about the amount of fuel you have then go with a 22 gal cell. It'll last you through a good weekend for sure. I used to run 35s with 4.09 gears and got 10 miles to gallon. Now it's 42s and 4.56s and God only knows what kind of crappy mileage i get. My cell will last me all weekend and I don't drive conservative.

[77wagondeer]

We rely on winches down here and let me tell you that the name makes a difference. We have a cj-5 with a chicago winch that sometimes will just quit pulling even double lined like it just gives up. We also have one of those tabor winches that seemes to do ok up to about 4k dead and then drops off on the power huge amp load no pull. Next we do have a mm9.5k on a scout that pulls its @$$ off with no signs of quitting when double line it would move a tank I think. And last but not least we have a warn 9.5k on a toyota that would move a tank no question's asked we use that one the most from everything to pulling trees down at the house to pulling stuck 4wd f-350's out of the sand so in my opinion go mm if on a budget the bigger the better and if you want a kick @$$ winch go warn I'm saving for the 8274 also and it's worth every penny that I will save.

[4x4fEvEr]

Dude, two things.

1) Quit whining and get rid of the coffin tank. It is a POS. Once it's empty it is so easy to drop. The thing is plastic or something, not heavy at all. Then spend $150 on a cell from Summit or Jegs and you're done.

2) Get a Warn HS9500i. They don't make that model anymore because they make the gay as hell 9500ti or whatever which is a POS in my book. Way too much electronics and fru fru crap. The straight up HS9500i is a friggin beast and the price is reasonable since they have a newer model out. I think it is the best winch Warn has ever made since the 8274. A 9500 is plenty for your rig for any situation. I ran that winch on my Wagoneer and now my buggy. It's a brute.


it looks like imma have to do the drop anyways to get my jeep rolling correct. its possible for me to do it once i down my jeep for the winter like i stated earlier because i will be doin no wheeling of course. would you care to enlighten me on where and how and what for the mounting procedure. if you could do that then i sure would be appreciative.

and on a second note once i got my summit fuel cell or whatever in i might as well get a rear diff thats centered probably a 14bolt or d70 or something, and having to sell all my 60 ****.

thanks for the link to the winch. im not in the market right now ive got a superwinch 9k i can throw on for a backup, maybe it will last more than one ride unlike the ramsey.

[4x4fEvEr]

oh yeah on another note on that trip i also lost three beads runnin 15lbs on 39.5x13.50's on 16x10 rims so beadlocks are in the works now as well. who makes a kickass set?

and the one thing that sucks about stayin spring under is a rock actually ripped one ubolt thru the mounting plate. so now i have to run square u-bolts flipped upped to get that mess outta the way.

[rockjeep44]

Bro, for as hard as you are beating on your rig you need to do things right and now you are headed in the right direction. SOA and maybe a rear 4-link might be something to consider for this winter.

As far as dropping the tank all I did was crawl under my rig and start zipping out bolts with my air gun. It's really easy. Once you get a few loose the tank will start to wiggle and you'll get the idea. Seriously, it's never going back in so just start taking stuff apart and hacking fuel lines.

[4x4fEvEr]

Bro, for as hard as you are beating on your rig you need to do things right and now you are headed in the right direction. SOA and maybe a rear 4-link might be something to consider for this winter.

As far as dropping the tank all I did was crawl under my rig and start zipping out bolts with my air gun. It's really easy. Once you get a few loose the tank will start to wiggle and you'll get the idea. Seriously, it's never going back in so just start taking stuff apart and hacking fuel lines.

im totally against SOA, i will not do it. if i did 4link the rear with coils i might as well try to coil the front and 4 link it up too, maybe one day down the road, if its possible, but not now. i got bj's 6" so i might as well ride the hell out of it. its a good suspension with my 39.5's. i need to get this never ending process of up grading parts finished and get the beef under there i rag on my jeep like its bulletproof.


gotta ditch the dana 44 and the d20 and the offset 60, so i got some work ahead of me. either that or stay on the hardtop :drivin:

[Stuka]

Trying to spring under a D60 is not going to be easy without cutting away all the webbing. Why are you so against spring over up front?

[4x4fEvEr]

Trying to spring under a D60 is not going to be easy without cutting away all the webbing. Why are you so against spring over up front?

i know imma have to notch the webbing, not a bigdeal.


every spring over i have seen sucked. springs go flat over time and axlewrap issues can only be met by a device that sorta will limit your articulation. besides i already have bj's 6" y change now. maybe if by 6" explodes or i bend some springs ill go with my originals with the AAL in them but thats an if

[Stuka]

Well, with a SOA you want flat springs, that way the articulation is neutral and will droop and compress better than your 6" springs. Yes there is axle wrap, but that can be delt with in ways that dont limit articulation all that much.

You will have to remove pretty much all of the webbing in that area, which can weaken the housing unless you add a truss up top.

[4x4fEvEr]

im talkin bout springs that end up lookin like the leaf packs on f-250's arched down.


i was examining a webbing for this procedure and what would be wrong with notching out the spring perch so there would be less webbing taken out.

[Stuka]

If you look at this image (just some image I found via google of a front GM D60) you would need to remove just about ALL of the webing to fit a spring perch there:

http://jeepgod.net/graphics/mods/drivetrain/front%20d60%202.JPG

[blt2krl]

Having run a 6in SUA and now running SOA, I personally take the SOA performance over the SUA anyday. The statement about Soa causing the springs to flatten out is exactly the same for SUA. Any spring that is used will flatten over time. A SUA spring has a hell of a lot more arch in it and I would beat over time would flatten greater than a soa spring. The difference in flex is not even comparable SUA gets spanked every time. On a side not your front drive line made me just about spew my dinner on the key board. Your are asking alot out of the flimsy setup turning 39.5's with the less than fabulous dana 20 gearing. In my opinion you were asking for problem from the begining. I can't say it enough try building it strong the first time. Not flaming you but please people try to think these things through harder.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Dad also has a centered ford dana 60 rear if you want to pick that up when you pick up the np435. ;)

As for the gas tank, ditch it. Swap to something that mounts where the old spare tire was behind the axle. I plan on useing a 25 gallon bronco gas tank.

As for beadlocks. I think that re centered H1 wheels are worth looking into. They are 16.5's, so you will need new tires, but I think the double beadlock is worth it. I got a set of 12 bolt H1 wheels off the bay for $300 (plus 100 for shipping, they are heavy) And got new centers from usa6x6.com and also their PVC beadlock inserts. (you dont want to run the hummer runflat) They are at a shop right now haveing the old center cut out and the new ones welded in. OR, if your wanting to run bigger axles, find a d70 from a dually rig and get some dually hubs for your front 60 and just run the wheels as-is and dont worry about haveing them re centered. CrazyJeepman is running H1 wheels on dually axles, I'm sure he could hook you up with some pics.

[Merc69]

Sounds like you have gone as far as the stock setup will take you. Step back look at what you want to accomplish with your rig and build the rig to accomplish the task.

A properly exicuted SOA is a far superior off road suspension than any SUA set up on a FSJ. The stock tank is just in the way for a decent axle so loose it.

A 77 to 79 Ford front end bolts in for a driver's side drop. A Chevy front end bolts up for a passenger side drop. A set of high steer arms to correct the steering, add a new drag link and a tie rod and call the front end good (shocks of course).

14 bolts need trimming and an aftermarket diff cover, A Dana 60 requires new beefier axles and machine work for them to fit the axle housing, a Dana 70 is 35 spline and no special work required. Also the housing is the same size as the Dana 60 (or reasonably close). Disc brake upgrades are easy on all the above axles.

Take some time and plan your build...keep an open mind to options :banghead:

[4x4fEvEr]

On a side not your front drive line made me just about spew my dinner on the key board. Your are asking alot out of the flimsy setup turning 39.5's with the less than fabulous dana 20 gearing. In my opinion you were asking for problem from the begining. I can't say it enough try building it strong the first time. Not flaming you but please people try to think these things through harder.



you are saying my square driveshaft was a flimsy setup? yeah the d20 low sucks but so does the 205 im swapping to that doesnt help me any with gearing just beef. if you have ever read any other threads on here i have been gettin the parts together for a 435/205 setup running a front dana60 that i planed to build up this winter with 5.13 gears, only ive been snagged by a dilema on my front 60. i thought it thru very hard and i decided i wasnt gonna down my jeep for years to build it. i had all of those parts the tires and j-20 axles and all that on the cheap so i threw it on and wheeled the hell out of it. now im fixin it all back and im doin tellico in september then my jeeps goin down for more winter buildup. come spring i hope to make you proud :thumbsup:

[4x4fEvEr]

Sounds like you have gone as far as the stock setup will take you. Step back look at what you want to accomplish with your rig and build the rig to accomplish the task.


A 77 to 79 Ford front end bolts in for a driver's side drop. A Chevy front end bolts up for a passenger side drop. A set of high steer arms to correct the steering, add a new drag link and a tie rod and call the front end good (shocks of course).

14 bolts need trimming and an aftermarket diff cover, A Dana 60 requires new beefier axles and machine work for them to fit the axle housing, a Dana 70 is 35 spline and no special work required. Also the housing is the same size as the Dana 60 (or reasonably close). Disc brake upgrades are easy on all the above axles.

Take some time and plan your build...keep an open mind to

options :banghead:

yeah i got you on that im lookin for a d70 right now tryin to see what years i could get one in, and still finding the parts i need for the beef. thanks

[rockjeep44]

im doin tellico in september

You best be hittin me up when you do :D

Oh, and don't be retarded. SOA is far superior to SUA any day. It's not a bandwagon thing. It's proven time and again. I've run all setups. SUA, SOA, and now Coilovers. I will personally drive to your house and punch you in the face if you hack up a perfectly good Dana 60 in order to run an inferior suspension setup.

[scotty]

Jeep D60's use a different flange than ford D60's (which came in HD versions). So the hubs wont transfer over (to my knowledge). The only D60 that I know of that used the same flange as older GM D60's.

just curious,what has this got to do with the price of beans as far as installing a custom 35 spline shaft?

nothing to do with the hubs or backing plates is needed to swap for the ford axle to a jeep axle,all thats needed is to bore out the spindle for shaft clearance,add the 35 spline diff of choice,and then slide in the shafts,with stock hubs and drum brakes,if you really wanted to. thos id personally go with discs.

only reason you cant add 35 spline shafts to a jeep 60 would be if the spindle is thinner than the ford 60. all the ford "HD 60" gives you is soime extra webbing,wich isnt a big deal to me...

having said all that,id swap in a 14 bolt. a complete axle will cost you waaaaay less than custom jeep 60 shafts and the machine work to the spindles.

[Stuka]

From what I have read the HD doesnt need to be bored out.

What I ment about the flange was the jeep D60 cant be bored out as there isnt enough meat there. He asked about switching other outers on. Now correct me if I am wrong, but jeep used an odd ball mounting flange that is different than ford or dodge D60's which would prevent him from going and using outers off of one of those.

But I agree that it would be time and money well saved t go with a 14FF or D70. Although D70's generally cost a bit more as they are not as common.

[rockjeep44]

The HD still needs to be bored out. How do I know? I've got a Dana 60 HD under my buggy right now with the HD cast right into the ribbing and I still had to bore my spindles. I've heard stories about people finding Dana 60s with 35 spline shafts but it's always a my buddies friends dads best friends uncle. Until I see pictures or someone can produce some sort of tangible proof I say they don't exist.

[4x4fEvEr]

You best be hittin me up when you do :D

Oh, and don't be retarded. SOA is far superior to SUA any day. It's not a bandwagon thing. It's proven time and again. I've run all setups. SUA, SOA, and now Coilovers. I will personally drive to your house and punch you in the face if you hack up a perfectly good Dana 60 in order to run an inferior suspension setup.


ok so maybe that was a retarded idea. maybe i dont catch on as quick maybe im stubborn. FINE! i give in to the truth. imma type up a list of whats gotta go and what it will be replaced with and we'll compare notes and see if i still have some retardation in me.


we should be doin tellico september 1-4 labor day weekend, you sure you wanna ride with me and my inferior setup.

[4x4fEvEr]

heres whats gotta go and what it will be replaced with for my jeep to kick ***

1) ditch ramesy winch replace with a warn winch
2) ditch front dana 44 - replace with dana 60
3) ditch front SUA springs - replace with SOA
4) ditch t-18 - replace with NP435 and t-176 bellhousing
5) ditch dana 20 - replace with NP205
6) ditch offset dana 60 - replace with 14FF or dana 70
7) ditch stock gears - replace with 5.13 and lockers.
8) ditch coffin tank - replace with fuel cell

hows that?

[rockjeep44]

Now you're talkin. Who else is coming for the labor day ride?

[4x4fEvEr]

Now you're talkin. Who else is coming for the labor day ride?



should be me, a wrangler on 35's a cj on 36's, a dodge 1500 on 38's and probably a tubed out scrambler on 40's, and maybe a 79 bronco on 38's,

ive got the only FSJ on the trails around here


oh yeah i almost forgot number 8 ditch the coffin tank for a fuel cell

[BRUTUS]

Looks like a good list to me.

I am still curious about the MM winches. The hydraulic MM winches are made in USA right? Why would the US military outfit all their humvees with a foreign winch? That doesn't make sense to me. FWIW, I would never buy a MM electric.

[4x4fEvEr]

a guy in our club has a MM 12000 and it does great. its slow as hell but its never bit the bullet and laid down on the job. i really havent seen anything go wrong with it. been on the truck 3 years, the dodge on 38's it always pulls his *** and mine out of the woods.

[Bama Burden]

Brutus, would you buy one of these:D

Go to www.winchesplus.com (http://www.winchesplus.comAs) They've got all kinds of ridiculous MM $h!t for cheap. The 12k# hydro units at 4WheelParts goes for $1253.99 but
winchesplus.com has it for $860.

[BRUTUS]

Seeing as how a winch is only as strong as it's weakest link... I have never understood the hitch-mount winch option. Especially with a rig as heavy as ours are. A class IV hitch is rated to 10K#. I just wouldn't feel comfortable winching at or near the capacity of the mount.

I am still considering the MM 12K# Hydraulic and possibly leaning toward the 15K# Warn Hydraulic. I primarily like the compact size of the hydraulic units and the full duty cycle. I like the additional safety factor because you can't always use a snatch block. I know they are slow but I am in no hurry.

I have read it so many times before "hydraulics don't work when your engine is off." I still can't imagine a situation when your engine won't run that winching somewhere else will HELP you, especially when you get winched where you are going... your batteries are depleated low enough that you can't start the engine again anyways. I know alot of guys love electrics and I don't have a problem with that. There is a reason there are so many of them out there.... however there is also a good reason that SOME (if not all) tow trucks use hydraulic winches.

I do find the CONCEPT above intriguing! hydraulic winching using a secondary motor. I wonder if you could modify an electric generator to take a hydraulic pump and make them easily interchangable. HMMMM....

[Stuka]

Looks like a good list to me.

I am still curious about the MM winches. The hydraulic MM winches are made in USA right? Why would the US military outfit all their humvees with a foreign winch? That doesn't make sense to me. FWIW, I would never buy a MM electric.

The military also puts out bids. Then they look at the low bidders and go with whom has the best performance per price. (although there is also the decision by committee aspect going on here). This is one of the reasons warn never wins out on these kinds of bids. Well, except with the new wrangler. You can buy one with a factory warn winch and bumper.

[BRUTUS]

The military also puts out bids. Then they look at the low bidders and go with whom has the best performance per price. (although there is also the decision by committee aspect going on here). This is one of the reasons warn never wins out on these kinds of bids. Well, except with the new wrangler. You can buy one with a factory warn winch and bumper.

I have a hard time believing that the military even looks at the pricetag on the quote. hence $100 quatrillion defecit.

[Stuka]

The military is weird. We (company I work for) have done military and government contracts before. And they do look at price. Although the price is greatly inflated for any government job over what it would be for consumers (hense the 100 dollar hammer theory). SO while the price is high no matter what, they do consider price when purchasing equipment.

[4x4fEvEr]

ok i may buy the MM 12k i hope that doesnt make me a bad person. unless miracles happen and a grand ends up in my wallet

[Stuka]

ok i may buy the MM 12k i hope that doesnt make me a bad person. unless miracles happen and a grand ends up in my wallet

LOL, run whatever you like. Its your rig :) We give input and opinions, take them as you will.

[4x4fEvEr]

ok according to my figures selling my drivetrain and various other parts will make me needing about 1000 to do this whole upgrade. not bad for a bombproof setup. be on the lookout in september for my drivetrain sale.

[4x4fEvEr]

just curious on everybody's way of building up their rigs. do you build it a piece at a time and keep riding it, or get everything together build it to suit you then down your jeep and throw it all on. or do you down it and start piecing it bit by bit till your done ...6 months later?

i want to keep wheeling and build this thing and i think thats a PITA

[JeepsAndGuns]

I am collecting all the part I need/want for my build up. I am not doing mutch of anything untill I get most all the stuff. Then I am throwing it on all at once to try and have as little down time as I can. I still have another year (or two?) of parts collecting to do......lol But only reason its takeing me that long is because I am building two Jeeps at once, and I am gonna finish my YJ before I start on my cherokee.

[JeepNOFEAR]

just curious on everybody's way of building up their rigs. do you build it a piece at a time and keep riding it, or get everything together build it to suit you then down your jeep and throw it all on. or do you down it and start piecing it bit by bit till your done ...6 months later?

i want to keep wheeling and build this thing and i think thats a PITA

I've been collecting parts for mine for over a year now. Right now it's just stock with cut fenders, aals, and 33s. Soon a lots changing.

[KaiserMan]

I'm doing a little at a time. Did the lift first, then the HB brakes, recently swapped in a set of axles. I'd like to do everything in one shot, but I don't have the money for that, and the truck would be immobile for way to long.
Tires are coming up very soon. Then onto the inoperable winch. Front 60 is going to have to wait for a good long while.

[Stuka]

I just do a little by little as money is available, and drive it inbetween changes.

[4x4fEvEr]

im thinkin little by little would be the best, but im afraid its gonna take selling my current drivetrain to afford a front dana 60 and my rear dana 70, ive got my 435/205 and my bellhousing lined up but the big stuff is gonna hurt the wallet.

[Bama Burden]

I think Kaiserman has the right idea -- keep knocking things off of your "to do" list but keep it running at the same time. In hindsight I wish I had done that with my '86, rather than taking it out of comission for an all at once buildup. I don't quite have the cash-flow to do it the way I'm doing it and still be able to afford mortgages and food. I miss not be able to hit the trail.

[rockjeep44]

I was down for 2 years while I built my buggy. Yea, that sucked but was the only way.

[Stuka]

Well, you have not broken the front axle yet, so I would concentrate ont he rear axle for now. It will be a whole lot cheaper than the front, and it takes most of the force when you are climbing those waterfalls.

[4x4fEvEr]

Well, you have not broken the front axle yet, so I would concentrate ont he rear axle for now. It will be a whole lot cheaper than the front, and it takes most of the force when you are climbing those waterfalls.


very tru. first thing is the fuel cell swap and then a dana 70 but finding one with 3.73 gears like my front 44 will be a *****. theres no way i would buy 3.73's to run now and then when i get my 60 go to 5.13's that would suck. maybe if i was single and had no kids and lived with grandma, but thats a big IF



i think i can ride it and build it. ive found two sets of 60 shafts for mine so thats not a big deal to just trail fix a broken shaft now, and that 70 i get i plan on doin a disk conversion on it before it goes in.

but once i do get my clutch/435/205/t176 behllhousing ready to go in it will have to be downed while i install that, which for me would probably take 2-3 saturdays since im always gone and then once i got that in i can sell all the old parts to get my 60.

i found a ford kingpin 60 last year in a junkyard but didnt get it cuz the shafts were gone. im hoping its still there. its a pick,n pull redneck junkyard, that you need 4wd and mud tires to get around the place, so it should still be there for cheap.

[Slick Willie]

Y'all keep talking about doing it all at once = costing too much money. I don't see it that way. Collect parts as money provides, get them all together one day to double check you're ready, and take maybe a week at most to build it up. You can still wheel while you're collecting parts.

But for your case, you have to fix a lot of things to wheel again. I'd say replace the rear shaft, make another driveshaft (clean it real good, weld it real good, grind it, make another pass), be easy on the skinny, and then over time, buy a D70/14 bolt, disc it, etc. Over the winter, spend time on making money, then acquire the front D60, get it ready.

For a front 60, try asking around offroad shops. They may have one, or they may know somewhere/someone that does. They have connections with a lot of people. I asked one near my hometown if any junkyards in the area would have a front D60, and he says "I have one I'm about to get rid of". So after a good (for me) conversation, I picked up a HP Ford Kingpin D60 for $800. Now everyone that sees it in my buddy's offroad shop in Austin wants to know if it's for sale. Call it lucky, I say it was...well...luck. Still, who asks offroad shops for axles? Everyone that wants a 60 goes to the junkyard. Good luck. (well at least down here in Texas...I've heard they're more common up North).

Keep your current settup running cheaply, acquire parts (remember, the longer it takes you to get parts, the more money you have made in the meantime), and swap them in. Maybe some here, then later some more there, or all at once. First, you have to find a rear axle. But always be on the lookout for those rare D60's.

[4x4fEvEr]

imma do it either way it comes. i didnt make that drive shaft, but its being fixed for free and ive got two sets of j-20 shafts lined up for spares, imma replace my winch and ride it till it breaks...again.

the 60 will be the big expense in my book, and once thats taken care off ill down it. i dont really care for winter riding because breaking in the ice and snow really sucks. but i will down it reguardless for dec jan and feb, no heat in my rig and comfort is key.

[scotty]

just curious on everybody's way of building up their rigs. do you build it a piece at a time and keep riding it, or get everything together build it to suit you then down your jeep and throw it all on. or do you down it and start piecing it bit by bit till your done ...6 months later?

i want to keep wheeling and build this thing and i think thats a PITA

i used to feverishly wrench on my jeep every spare second i got between our shceduled outings.sometimes they were a week apart,sometimes 3 or 4.

i got tired of doing that and built a scout II to wheel while ive got the jeep torn down for some major reconstruction so i can take my time and do it the way i wanna do it without being rushed to get it backtogether so i can wheel :drivin:

[4x4fEvEr]

i got tired of doing that and built a scout II to wheel while ive got the jeep torn down for some major reconstruction so i can take my time and do it the way i wanna do it without being rushed to get it backtogether so i can wheel :drivin:



good idea! wish there was a place here like out west where you could rent a jeep for the day