FORD 60 Rear

[starlifter]

OK, I was looking for an rear end upgrade for one of my 86 - 88 NT GWs. I primary intend to use the vechicle 60% towing, and 40% off road. Off road consisting of trails with big mud holes some stumps, cut trees etc. Basically, getting into the southern swamp areas for fishing & hunting. I found in a salvage yard Dana 60 rear from an 88 Ford E-350 which is a FULL FLOAT rear according to the numbers on the axle (605355 BOM nunber). I ruffely measured it to about 64 3/4 inch wide. The ID tag is missing so I don't know the gear ratio however, it was a delivery van with an inline six so I assume it was a street gear. My question is: is this a good upgrade for my Jeep? Knowing the extra width what problems will I run into? I can get it for $50 ( plus my sweat removal rate). Pour it on me guys!

[JeepsAndGuns]

You might want to double check and make sure its a D60 and not a D61. The D61 has a pinion that is offset more to allow higher gears to be insalled (like 3.07's) where a regular D60 the highest raito you can use is 3.54 If you want to run 4.10's or 4.56's you will need a custom ring gear spacer to make them work.

[Stuka]

Being its an E350, it may also be one of the wider versions of the axle, so make sure its not one of the 70" WMS axles. You will want a ~67" version which is the normal pickup width. Then you will need a wider 8 lug axle for the front.

[starlifter]

NEW INFO!! Went back to the yard and now I believe it's a Full Float Dana 60 from an 1988 E-350 with a GVWR of 7200. I used this web site to help identify http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Dana_BOM_numbers.html

Using the BOM data the rear end matched up to the 88 Dana 60 with the build date of 1986 and it has the hubs protruding about 3 - 4 inches from the hub. No Gear ratio Tag attached but a delvery van with a 6 cyl engine tells me 70 - 80 MPH ,so a low number. I roughly measured it hub to hub as 64 3/4. What work will be required to install in a late 80s NT GW?

[Stuka]

if it is 64" sounds really narrow, but no big deal. You will need to move the spring perches on the axle. And be sure to measure the distance between the backing plates to make sure it will clear your leaf springs. It should clear fine, but its best to check.

[starlifter]

Thanks Stuka, moving spring perches is no problem. This 4 X 4 stuff is always a learning exerience!

[Slick Willie]

If you take the diff cover off, there should be a **-** number printed on the ring gear. Or you could count the splines on the ring gear and divide by the splines on the pinion gear. That'll give you the gears. ex. 43-13 = (43/13) = 3.31's

It sounds like a good find.

[starlifter]

Thanks all. Now, I need to find an eight bolt front end or at least hubs to complete the package..Oh one more question. Does the front and rear axles be the excact same gear ratio or within a few numbers i.e. 4:10 & 4:11?

[Slick Willie]

They do need to be the same numbers. 4.10's and 4.11's are the same. Some call them 4.10's, some call them 4.11's. Depends on the manufacturer. But you won't tell any difference at all 4hi or 4lo.

[J20 Good Humor]

Being it is a 1 ton van and has a 6 cyl. in it, I think the odds are in your favor that you will have 3.7's or 4.10's in that diff.

[Stuka]

The difference from 4.09/4.10/4.11 is because of the size of the R&P. The gearing isnt always exactly the same because these variables are changing.

[scotty]

hmmm,a dana 60 in an 88 E350? id have thot it to be a sterling that late inthe 80s...

anyway,if it is a 60 keep in mind before handing over nonrefundable $$ and going thru all the work to install it that the 60 has dana 44 sized axleshafts(30 spline,1.31 inches :eek: ) so if you really need beef it may not be the best choice.

it is certainly an upgrade from a 44 or m20 since its FF,and the diff is bigger and stronger. id consider it a "medium duty" upgrade ;)

the 44 size floating shafts may be fine for your intended uses,but if you plan on hauling a really heavy load or want to run big tires off road,then you may be better off searching for a d70 or gm 14 bolt instead.

something to consider,anyway :drivin:

[Bama Burden]

the 44 size floating shafts may be fine for your intended uses,but if you plan on hauling a really heavy load or want to run big tires off road,then you may be better off searching for a d70 or gm 14 bolt instead.

something to consider,anyway :drivin:

And of course the 14 bolt can be shaved a good deal to help clear tree stumps and roadkill

[Slick Willie]

If it was me, I'd get this axle (if it is indeed cheap), sell it to some doofus not on here for about $100 more than I bought it for, then take that $100 and buy a FF 14 bolt. Hey, it's nearly an indestructable rear axle, 1.5" shafts, stock with 4.10's and 4.56's, and it would be free.

Heck, I bought a non running J-10 from a guy, kept the front axle, t-case, and various other equip, sold the rest, and the parts brought in more than double what I paid for it. Free axle and t-case.

:D

[starlifter]

Looks like I will get it this Monday (my day off). I couldn't find a 14 bolt. As far as towing I don't plan on much over 5500 lbs. I would like to find a Dana 60 WT front to do a SOA.

[Slick Willie]

I would reconsider towing with SOA. That's going to give your front about 7" of lift...not ideal for towing.

[starlifter]

Yep your probally right. It's always something. For every action there is an opposite reaction. A four inch lift with 31 - 32 tires should be no problem right?

[Slick Willie]

People on here have towed with lifted GW's no problems. Some swear it's ok. Some doubt it. But none have recommended towing with SOA.

So mainly, you want to tow a 5500 lb something and take it offroad also, so you want a stronger axle. That rear axle swap won't add that much lift to your jeep since the rear is already SOA.

It sounds like you want a stronger axle, but don't know how big a lift/tires you want yet. Once you decide on what tires you want, then pick the lift needed to fit the tires. Then, with the tire size in mind, you'll have a need for the axle.

[Slick Willie]

This might help:

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=44404

I don't completely agree with it, but I can say that these will work. They are a little bit generous in my opinion. But they are good guidelines.

[scotty]

the biggest prollem,IMO,is with building "multipurpose vehicles". if you build your rig for optimal off road performance,then you want a fair amt of suspension travel with a soft spring rate,you want a bigger than stock mud tire,and you may or may not want a locker or 2.

here is where the prollem lies ;)

for towing you want a rear suspension that can handle the tonge weight of the trailer without squatting it to the bumpstops,and you want tires that are load rated for the weight of the wag+anything you carry inside+ the tongue weight of the trailer.

youll find alot of 32+ sized tires are not optimally load rated for towing. im sure alot of them will be enuff for your relatively small load,but its something youll have to pay attention to when choosing tires so you can tow safely.

the other prollem obviously,is that a towing capable suspension is going to jar your teeth out offroad :eek:

and we have not even discussed lockers. most folks agree that towing with an auto-locker(like a detroit) is not a good idea,nor it towing with a spool.

IMO you cannot take enuff prcautions when pulling a trailer,no matter what size it is.

a good compromise when you arrive at a lift height that satisfies you and youve picked out some appropriate tires would maybe to install a set of air bags to help with the load,and/or get a weight distributing hitch with sway control,if your rear suspension ends up being too soft and needs some help. keep the diff open,selectable,or some type of LSD.

at any rate,this is why i have a dedicated tow rig,trail rig,and a daily driver.ive been there and done that with the multipurpose thing,and i personally have alot more fun with my vehicles when they are purpose-built :drivin:

[Dmntxn77]

Yep, what Scotty said...

[starlifter]

Scotty, question for you or any other of you guys who has the knowledge. If and when I install the 8 lug Dana 60 and I decide to keep the Dana 44 front would it be better and perhaps cheaper/easier to change the rear to a 6 lug pattern? I think you may have answered this before. It is my understanding other than swapping in a 8 lug front I can use componets from J20 or 3/4 ton straight axle Chevy. I like your input on multipurpose rigs and again I do more light duty off road, medium duty towing (5,500 lbs), pulling boat trailers, lumber, buckets of gold, opps nix that last one. The air bag is something to look into however, it sounds like one more componet to break.

[JeepsAndGuns]

In my opnion, it might end up being cheaper to convert the front to 8 lug. But might is the key word. You will just have to price the parts and labor (either yourself or a shop) for both and then decide witch is easyer and cheaper for you.

[scotty]

. If and when I install the 8 lug Dana 60 and I decide to keep the Dana 44 front would it be better and perhaps cheaper/easier to change the rear to a 6 lug pattern?

it depends on how much machining youd have to pay form,and what other parts you coould scrounge up rather than having to buy. in a nutshell,you turn down the front of the hub to fit thru the 6 lug wheel of your choice,then drill the hub for the 6 lug pattern. a couple of holes will overlap some,not much way around that. then you turn down the rear of the hub to fit thru a front 6 lug rotor. attach the front rotor to the rear of the rear hub with front studs. add a set of $7 apiece A&A mfg caliper brackers,and some front calipers(for no mechanical e brake) and front hoses and youre done.

since a rear disc conversion is more or less mandatory for a 6 lug conversion,it could easily end up costing more to go this route than it would be to buy 8 lug fronts and new wheels. especially if you have to pay for machining and have to buy rotors,calipers,pads,etc. new.

your understanding is correct,any 8 lug front on a j20 or chevy can donate spindles/caliper mount/hub/rotor. only thing youll really want to avoid is older chevy 44s with big,goofy external lockouts. the newer,internal mount lockout is a better/strogner design.

The air bag is something to look into however, it sounds like one more componet to break.

not quite sure how the airbags would work off road. id think they would limit travel.

for towing,however,they designed and sold for the purposes of increasing load carrying capacity,and are a common upgrade for 1/2 ton trucks carrying/towing more than they should ;)

you may not need any help in the rear suspension,but if ya do the airbags will be worth looking into,as would a weight distributing hitch. the hitch will make a night/day difference all by itself,and is prolly worth purchasing first if you have prollems towing with your new suspension.

further questions? :drivin:

[starlifter]

More questions? Tons of them but I will try and stay focused here. The weight distributing hitch is great advise. Now for the front 8 lug set up to match the rear. I would think the disadavntages (add more if you know of any) of this would be additional unsprung weight?? What are the advantages, better brakes? If so, this alone would help my decision. Also, would this setup increase my overall front axle width? I assume there are enough 8 lug wheel combos out there to choose from also? I really appreciate all the input from you guys:thumbsup:

[scotty]

the weight difference between the 6 and 8 lug front ends is very minimal,and IMO unsprung weight is an advantage.sprung weight is a different story. it doesnt hurt you to add unsprung weight in the form of beefy axles :D

the 8 lug hub WMS is alittle further out,making you almost an inch wider per side after swapping on the 8 lug stuff.

you will get slightly better brakes with the bigger 8 lug rotor.

also 2 more lugs holding the wheel on has got to make it alittle less likely to fall off :p

last and not least,8 lugs are cool. nothing says "i have beef under my truck" to passers-by like 8 lugs :thumbsup:

is that enuff reasons for ya? IMO its only really a worthwhile venture to do the rear 6 lug conversion if you have a set of new,really expensive wheels/tires that you cannot bear to part with.

last and not least,plenty of wheel/tires options out there for 8 on 6.5 wheelbolt pattern.if youre going to purchase them new,do some reasearch beforehand. several companies make an 8 lug 15" diameter wheel that will fit the 8 lug front with some minor grinding on the brake caliper if you have your heart set on a tire thats not made in 16". 16.5 wheels still generally have no safety beads,so id prolly try and avoid that. 17s are starting to become more popular,but the 17" selection is still not so great. more and more tires and wheels are being made in the 16" size,id prolly try and go that route-the 16" wheel is prolly going to be the "15 inch" size of tomorrow ;) and they should fit the 8 lug front with no grinding.

on to the next batch of questions :D :drivin:

[incommando]

On the tires: It is true that most flotation sizes (33x12.5, etc...) are not rated to carry heavy loads. These tires have too much sidewall flex for optimal towing/load carrying.

Find a corresponding size in an LT metric size to get a load rated tire. 285/75r/16 works out to about 33x11.5, for example.

[starlifter]

Great answers. I was going to ask about the 16 wheels but you guys must have been down his road before. I got my digital camera ready and should be pulling the rear axle Monday so I'll try and post a pic. I guess I need to post a WTB for the front end stuff and start lookin in the yards. I have two of three GWs running plus another car to drive while I'm working on the one GW so it's just a matter of obtaining the parts and time.:D