np205?

[AlsChopShop]

my coworker is scrapping an old chev p/u, he says it has a np205 pass drop. isn't the 205 fairly desireable? would i be able to bolt that up to my current 400 trans in place of the quadratrac? i figure i will need new driveshafts, but will i have problems with rear driveshaft vibrations because the rear axle has the quadratrac offset diff?

also, what is a reasonable price for a np205?
thanks! :fsj:

Al

[Micah Ross]

From what I understand from reading here it requires a complete tranny tear-down to replace the rear output shaft.

[derf]

The 205 is a big heavy pig of a transfer case. But it's basically bulletproof. Low range sucks but you can put in a 3:1 conversion kit and/or bolt up the low range unit from an NP203 in between the tranny and t-case for comination low ranges.

To swap it into your wagon you will need the transmission to t-case adapter and a new tail shaft out of a TH400 from a GM truck that had a 205 originally. Putting in that tail shaft involves tearing out every last bit of the guts of the transmission and putting it all back together (i.e. a full teardown and rebuild). Since the AMC TH400 has a different bellhousing than the Chevy bellhousing, you can't just swap the transmission with it.

There is a possibility of gas tank clearance issues but I don't know the measurements off hand.

As far as driveshafts, you may just need to swap yokes. Maybe lengthen the rear just a smidge. As far as the offset diff in the rear, it's no problem. The stock wagoneers with the D20 had offset axles and center rear output and no problems. The driveshaft can't tell the difference between being angled to the side or angled down (or both). An angle is an angle is an angle.

[Bob Barry]

Also be aware that the NP205 is more commonly found behind a TH350, which will NOT work with your TH400, unless you change to a very-expensive, and very weak, output shaft.

[BRUTUS]

:thumbsup: my coworker is scrapping an old chev p/u, he says it has a np205 pass drop. isn't the 205 fairly desireable? would i be able to bolt that up to my current 400 trans in place of the quadratrac? i figure i will need new driveshafts, but will i have problems with rear driveshaft vibrations because the rear axle has the quadratrac offset diff?

also, what is a reasonable price for a np205?
thanks! :fsj:

Al

Yes it is desirable.
All chevys were passenger drop.
As mentioned above you would NOT be able to bolt it right up.
I paid $100 for my 205 but it also has the 10 spline male input.
Not sure if you should worry about driveline vibs as much as gas tank clearance.
If the chevy has a th400, the 205 would have the 32 spline female input. :thumbsup:
Can you post pictures of both sides??

[AlsChopShop]

thanks everyone for the quick responses.

no pics so far, its getting torn down this weekend. i'm not sure what trans it is comming off of but i believe it was a 3 or 4 speed... i do know that the motor is a 327 though! :D

so i need a new trans, not too suprised, i have actually been looking into a motor swap (sbc) so a real th400 (gm) will actually be cheaper than an adapter plate plus the tailshaft replacement.


how bad is the low range? i'm not a rock crawler, mostly just moderate to difficult trail rides in 4lo, all my mudding is usually in 4hi. i will be running 33s, maybe 35s and i've got 3.54 gears. would the stock low range be ok for my needs?

maybe i should buy the complete drivetrain off him? but i know 327 would go for a pretty penny and i was originally going to run a tbi motor.

ok so the tank won't clear, thats not too big of a deal because i have an aftermarket tank for behind the axle ready to install. :thumbsup:

Al

[grimgaunt]

Al,
swapping a tailshaft takes all of 45 min if the tranny is ok and already out on the ground. If it needs a rebuild then 5-6 hrs more. Go for it.

Its easy, adds beef and beats doing on of the following:

- replacing a rear shaft on the trail
- replacing a shaft and adapter on the trail
- paying some shop $700 to do a rebuild and a tailshaft swap

[derf]

Low range on an NP205 is 1.96:1

Low range on a quadratrac is 2.57:1

There are aftermarket gearsets that give you a 3:1 low on the 205.

If you're going to swap in a Chebby V8, a TH400 and NP205 out of a heavier duty truck would be a great setup to bring with it.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Doubt the 205 is going to be the correct one for you coming from behind a 3 or 4 speed, unless it is an 85 and up 4 speed. Be carefull you can buy a bunch of usless junk in a hurry :rolleyes:

[Grimjaw]

The year of the truck, if it was 1/2-3/4 or 1 ton, and what transmission will tell most of the story on the TC.

[AlsChopShop]

got more info today, its a sm420 4 speed (granny first) out of a 3/4 ton p/u. he says its pretty strong trans.

so maybe i do a manual swap? i wouldn't be too opposed to that, maybe rig up a hand throttle later on for easier wheeling. but again the cost factor might be getting up there with a manual swap. any ideas?

i don't want to get in over my head or spend more than i need, but i don't want to let it pass by if the setup would work pretty good for me.

Al

[Slick Willie]

Sounds like a lot of hastle just to get a good deal. I'd jump on it if it would bolt up since it'll be cheap, but with all the work to make it work, I don't know if it would be worth it.

Check out your need for a different t-case, then decide which one, then start looking if you indeed need a new t-case.

[AlsChopShop]

Check out your need for a different t-case, then decide which one, then start looking if you indeed need a new t-case.
actually this whole idea came from the original engine swap, not the need for a new transfer case. i'm not sure what the idea t-case would be for me. my thought process was that with an sbc swap i'd need an adapter plate to bolt up to the th400, and those are flippin expensive! at the cost, i could get a different trans or atleast a gm th400 shell to transplant the guts. then that leaves me with needing an adapter plate for the qt, but again the price is so high on adapter plates that i might as well just find a transfer case! i wouldn't mind a part time transfer case anyway and i think the whole setup could be tons stronger than it already is.

maybe i'm in over my head. :banghead:

Al

[Grimjaw]

got more info today, its a sm420 4 speed (granny first) out of a 3/4 ton p/u. he says its pretty strong trans.




depending on year sm465 is more likely. Sm420 is a Medium truck transmission but still possible. If the truck is a 1985-1990 then it could be a sm465 with Hydro-clutch. Chevy guys love them.

[AlsChopShop]

its out of a '62.

Al

[goldhammer]

If it is a 205 marrried to the transmission, it is a transplant. That vintage of GM used a divorced transfer case, a Rockwell and lots-a-luck finding parts for one anymore. The last one of those I saw was close to 20 years ago, and then got one given to me. Makes a dandy door stop, or anchor for the yacht..

[Grimjaw]

its out of a '62.

Al

Thats a sm420. First gear is 7.05:1.

[BigRedChief]

[personal opinion]If I were getting into the realm of thinking about a full drivetrain swap, with all the expense and trouble, I'd be hunting down a diesel.[/personal opinion]

[Twinpinion]

If it has the SM420 it is very likely that the transfer case is not an NP205. It is probably the Rockwell T-221. Kind of a cool transfer case for really lifted mud trucks because it has a dropped rear output (not straight through). It's popular in places like Florida. Parts might be hard to find but M.I.T. in El Cajon, CA can get stuff for it I believe. It came behind the SM420 married and divorced depending on the year. Don't ask me which cause I don't know.

[AlsChopShop]

thanks guys, i'll have him double check on the t-case. how dependable is the rockwell t-221? would it be a good case for what i need? i'm only going to run 6" lift max.

one last dumb question, what is the difference between a married and divorced t-case?

bigredchief: i understand what you mean but i've never been a fan of diesels in anything but tow vehicles. especially on the trail because of the smell. i'd hate to be behind me! :eek:

Al

[goldhammer]

Married= bolted to the trans, ie. your Q_trac. Divorced = separate from trans with a short drive line between them, ie. mid 70's ford 250 high boys.

[BigRedChief]

bigredchief: i understand what you mean but i've never been a fan of diesels in anything but tow vehicles. especially on the trail because of the smell. i'd hate to be behind me! :eek:

Al

Very true... It takes a lot of catalysts and filters to get them smellin' purdy. :D

For a trail-only or near-trail-only... if I were going to swap drivetrains completely, again considering the cost/time/hassle, it would probably be to a V-6 with a good crawl ratio unless I was ever really going to need the torque of a V-8.

[AlsChopShop]

ok, double checked all the info, the t-case is not original, possibly the trans isn't either. it is the sm420 for sure and its a divorced np205. he's double checking the t-case just to make sure on the 205, but he's pretty darn sure.

i'm thinking i wouldn't need to change the low range gear set if i pick up the trans because of the granny first... that would be nice.

Al

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Divorced setup in a Waggy or a Chero would suck! you don't really have enough wheelbase to stuff such a long drivetrain in, and if you have lift.......it gets worse.

[HeepofaJeep]

If you are dead set on a chevy conversion, do it right & just buy a complete donor vehicle. There was one [3/4 ton] the other day w/ Warn 8274 winch & 400ci engine, sm465-np205 for $750. That was in Milwaukie, OR. I am sure the deal is gone, but my point is you are much better off to decide what you want, and then daily check Craigslist/forum ads until the right deal comes along.

As far as the setup you are referring to, the sm420 is only worth about $50, & the np205 about $175, in this area. I don't know about the 327, but probably no more than $400 depending on condition.

Axles on that are more-or-less worthless unless later stuff is swapped in.

What is wrong with your current engine?

[AlsChopShop]

well this sort of is a donor, the only thing i don't want is the 327 because he wants big bucks for it becuase its a 4 bolt main. i'm planning on a tbi setup anyway. he says the manual trans is only like 12 inches long, could it still work with the divorced 205 because the trans wont be as long as the th400? maybe i should have him measure the length from bellhousing to the rear driveshaft output.

Al

[Bama Burden]

My divorced 205 is currently in pieces (as it has been for some time) on the floor of my office but I'll tell you how my math worked out for my drivetrain length.

My original TF727/NP228 was about 44" total
The driveshaft is about 40" IIRC
So the total length of the original drivetrain from bellhousing to end of pinion was about 84"
The case of my SM465 (and your 420) is 12" but add on a bellhousing and 2wd tailshaft and you're looking at about 24"
My 205 is about 16" yoke to yoke
So without an intermediate shaft I'm about 4" short of the 727/228 combo.
The intermediate shaft is going to have to be a custom job cause it's going to be short. It won't be 4" but still shorter than one from a hiboy. And the driveshaft is going to have to be cut down.

I think I have reached a point in my life where I can again start moving forward on this project so hopefully I'll have some real numbers and pics soon.

[AlsChopShop]

sounds great, keep me updated on your progress, your setup is just what i want to run.

Al

[HeepofaJeep]

IMHO, the only reason to run a divorced Tranfer case is so you can run a 2wd drive tranny to open the options as far as engines go [namely the BOPC Big block engines].

Otherwise, why not just go with the tried & true & affordable married unit-- especially if you are gonna go chevy anyway!

Divorced == extra mounting, extra weight, and extra moving parts. Also, I don't see any cost savings.

To each their own though. Just my $.02

:fsj:

[Bama Burden]

IMHO, the only reason to run a divorced Tranfer case is so you can run a 2wd drive tranny to open the options as far as engines go [namely the BOPC Big block engines].

Otherwise, why not just go with the tried & true & affordable married unit-- especially if you are gonna go chevy anyway!

Divorced == extra mounting, extra weight, and extra moving parts. Also, I don't see any cost savings.

To each their own though. Just my $.02

:fsj:
I would tend to agree with that, though my front end is DS drop so the married 205 Chevy wouldn't work. The only reason I ended up with this setup is that I already had the Chevy engine built and it was easier to swap it in than to rebuild my 360. If I didn't already have the Chevy I would have redone the 360 and then gone the NP435/205 route.

[shimniok]

how bad is the low range? i'm not a rock crawler, mostly just moderate to difficult trail rides in 4lo, all my mudding is usually in 4hi. i will be running 33s, maybe 35s and i've got 3.54 gears. would the stock low range be ok for my needs?

Hey Al, for what it's worth, I'm no rock crawler (few with an FSJ are) but I do some tough trails like you and I think you'd miss the lower gearing. A lower gearset will cost a lot.

I don't know much about mudding, wheeling in CO, but for hard trails where 33's or 35's will get you through, oem FSJ tcases will hold up just fine if they're in good shape. The 205's are desirable and necessary to a crowd at a whole other level of buildup.

Though I've never done a drivetrain swap from a non-FSJ, I did meddle with the entire drivetrain, staying with the oem design except the WT axles and NP208. I partly wished I'd done a late model GM truck drivetrain.

Since all the drivetrain components are interrelated, I think the key is to understand all your needs/requirements up front and build the entire truck around that, finding the appropriate balances and tradeoffs.

Anyway hope this is of some help...

Michael

[AlsChopShop]

thanks michael, i know what you mean. do you have any suggestions on what i should run? i'm mostly a trail rider like yourself, but hit the mud too. nothing too extreme. there are lots of hills and switchbacks here in the mountain ranges where i roam. i'm pretty determined to run an sbc with tbi, so its all a question of running an adapter and keeping the stock drivetrain (once i pick up the low range) or swapping out everything at once. all i know is adapters are flippin expensive, thats why i've been looking into replacing everything to match up correctly. i could go either way with a manual or auto trans, autos are easier to manage on the trails for sure but i can get used to a manual pretty quick if i put in a hand throttle.

bottom line is i just don't know! trying to find out all my options and the best route. all suggestions are welcomed! :thumbsup:

Al

[goldhammer]

For a general purpose rig that can handle most of what is out here, I would tend to run a 33-35 " tire, with something in the 4.10 to 4.27 range. That would allow you to stay with a transfer in the 2:1 area. The 420 transmission with a little deeper 1st than a 435/465/18 would take care of most anything you run across. You would always have the opportunity to go the doubler route with a 205, but it can get spendy. With the pass drop you have another option would be to use a 727 and a 300 case (2.62 low) behind an AMC powerplant. Lot of different ways to go, just depends on what you want and need.

My chero has the bone stock 360, a T18, 208 with 3.31's and 31" tires. Weight is around 5000 when wheeling, and it will generally go where ever I have the guts to point it. With the stock suspension, approach, departure, and breakover angles are more of a limiting factor. Lifting it is out, as the better half can just get in now without working hard at it.

[shimniok]

thanks michael, i know what you mean. do you have any suggestions on what i should run?

I'm ill-qualified to suggest but when has that ever stopped me. :D One of the guys in CFSJA swapped an entire late-model Vortec drivetrain into his TJ and it is awesome. He got it from some place in OK that sells parts from wrecked, new-never-been-sold cars. It cost him about $3000... cost me $2800 for my 360 rebuild. :o

Not sure, but it is probably a reasonably decent NP tcase behind the 4L60E? I really wished I'd gone that route and done lower axle gearing. Owell. Cuz that way all you'd need are the right motor / trans mounts at that point and some electrical know how (but probably not a whole lot).

I don't know much about Chevys but I guess I'd want a TH400, later model 700R4 (versus the early weak ones), 4L80E or 4L60E and an NP208 or other NP with good low range and (ideally) no slip yoke. I defer to those more in the know about Chevys and their options etc.

Michael

[Bama Burden]

I'm totally biased to manual trannys so take this with a grain of salt. I don't think the 700r4 is worth the trouble. They break and their overdrive is only marginally better/more useful than no-overdrive. If you were to go with an auto then certainly the TH400 and 4L80e are the strongest in the GM lineup. I still wouldn't bother with them, though. SM420's are as stout as stout gets but imagine driving a bread truck in 1952 and that's what your trans will shift like. :thumbsup: Now the SM465 is not much better but the '89 to '91 models have an aluminum shifter housing that usually have a little less slop and the shifter has been relocated a little more rearward than the earlier ones. You will appreciate this when you're trying to get it to clear the dash. Even better news is that the '89-'91 models already have TBI:drivin:

[AlsChopShop]

I'm ill-qualified to suggest but when has that ever stopped me. :D One of the guys in CFSJA swapped an entire late-model Vortec drivetrain into his TJ and it is awesome. He got it from some place in OK that sells parts from wrecked, new-never-been-sold cars. It cost him about $3000... cost me $2800 for my 360 rebuild. :o

Not sure, but it is probably a reasonably decent NP tcase behind the 4L60E? I really wished I'd gone that route and done lower axle gearing. Owell. Cuz that way all you'd need are the right motor / trans mounts at that point and some electrical know how (but probably not a whole lot).

I don't know much about Chevys but I guess I'd want a TH400, later model 700R4 (versus the early weak ones), 4L80E or 4L60E and an NP208 or other NP with good low range and (ideally) no slip yoke. I defer to those more in the know about Chevys and their options etc.

Michael thats exactly what i'm worried about, i'll shell out enough $ in keeping the same setup that i'll regret not spending just a few more bucks and getting what i really want/need.

the price of vortecs are pretty steep, plus the mass amount of electronics start to scare me. i can handle the amount of computer controlled equipment on a tbi but not much more. plus i'd have to change out the intake gaskets out of a new vortec. ;)

i'd almost consider pulling the drivetrain out of my 91 and part the rest of the truck (*sniff*) but its drivers drop and i don't want to change axles too. maybe just trade t-cases. dunno.

as for transmissions, i'd be fine with just swapping in a real gm th400 if i stay auto, i could live without overdrive because this isn't a road trip vehicle. i have nothing against the 700r4/4l60, infact the one in my 91 lasted 250,000 miles (rare, i know!) and then i had it built up right, it will outlast any other auto trans 2 fold. :D i don't think they are bad transmissions at all when built correctly. the 4l80e is real stong, but overkill IMO. plus i'd loose power over trying to turn the 80e compared to the 60. and with the 80e (or a 4l60e) i'd have to find a complete donor to get computer becaue the stand alone unit is a grand! :eek: plus i'd need to modify even more stuff with the added length of a 700r4/4l60, or maybe i'll be doing that anyway with any other trans?


I'm totally biased to manual trannys so take this with a grain of salt. I don't think the 700r4 is worth the trouble. They break and their overdrive is only marginally better/more useful than no-overdrive. If you were to go with an auto then certainly the TH400 and 4L80e are the strongest in the GM lineup. I still wouldn't bother with them, though. SM420's are as stout as stout gets but imagine driving a bread truck in 1952 and that's what your trans will shift like. :thumbsup: Now the SM465 is not much better but the '89 to '91 models have an aluminum shifter housing that usually have a little less slop and the shifter has been relocated a little more rearward than the earlier ones. You will appreciate this when you're trying to get it to clear the dash. Even better news is that the '89-'91 models already have TBI:drivin:

i don't know much about manuals, but i'm not expecting to be able to speed shift it. i learned to drive a manual in a 73 chev p/u with a 454 and a muncie 4 speed with syncros that were going bad... i don't think it can be much worse than that! :D i wouldn't mind a granny first gear on the trail anyway, especially if the lowrange on the t-case i run is only 2:1.

it would be nice to get a whole motor/trans/t-case combo to plunk in at once, but i'm pretty sure the motor will end up getting purchased seperate because of my want of tbi. i think that will help as i can get an older trans/t-case unit and the price and availability will be better. so what is a good trans/t-case combo to look for and what years would i find it in? i don't need the biggest/strongest/best running gear because i don't trash my rig or run hardcore... plus i am on a budget. ideas? i can stil get the sm420 if thats a decent way to go.

Al

[Bama Burden]

I'd recommend the SM465 over the 420 just because you'll have more tcase options without using $$$ adapters. You can get a 465/205 combo for pretty cheap. They're gonna be in GM trucks throughout the '70's and about the first half of the '80's. If the truck is from the '70's, make sure that it's not an NP203 unless you're interested in going the doubler route.

[HeepofaJeep]

Just find a full size chevy w/ solid axle newer than 75. If you wanna go for the big stuff, shop for a 1 ton chevy, otherwise, for the 33-35" tire range, just find a 3/4 ton. I would probably go with an auto just to simplify the swap [no truck linkage]. No sense in making things difficult by playing around with mixing & matching parts, finding adapters, etc. These trucks are all over your area, so it shouldn't be hard to find.

[scotty]

If it has the SM420 it is very likely that the transfer case is not an NP205. It is probably the Rockwell T-221. Kind of a cool transfer case for really lifted mud trucks because it has a dropped rear output (not straight through).

just an FYI, the T-221 was the ONLY case that was ever married to an sm420 trans.

you can easily ID it by looking under it and looking at the location of thr rear output-if its way down low on an oddly shaped case its the T-221. if it looks like a conventional 205 then the tranny is prolly a sm465/205. a 205 never came behind a 420,so if it ends up being that it was put there with some kind of aftermarket shaft and adapter.

a SBC/sm420/T-221 is a great combo IMO for a lifted short WB rig,like a cj 7,due to its low rear output.


on the whole married/divorced thing,heres my 2 cents:
id prolly rather run the divorced 420/205 than a married 10 spline(most common) 465/205 in terms of strength. the 10 spline male input/output and goofy connecting sleeve tends to develop slop over the years and eventually too much of a shockload at the wrong time will twist it right off.

if you want a complete chevy driveline take extra time finding,and pay some extra $$ for if needed, a Later model('85+?) sm465/205 or even sm465/208. it will have the round pattern on the adapter and be a 32 spline male output.

if you run the divorced 420/205 you can keep the divorced setup shorter by connecting them together with a single u joint. yes it will work with no vibes,the key is to build a cradel that rigidly mounts the tranny and t case together and doesnt let them move independently from one another. this cradel can be mounted to the frame via rubber mounts/bushings,but the case and tranny need to mount solidly.

last and not least,i agree 100% with everything said about the 700r. its got to be one of the most over-rated automatics in the history of automatics ;)

im also not a fan of slushboxes. find yourself a good later model TBI motor and 32 spline 465. as much as i also hate aluminum t cases,a 465/208 would be a decent combo-reasonably strong with a better low range than the 205. you can always run the 208 until you find a 32 spline,round pattern 205 to swap on if a 465/208 is what falls into your lap :)

further questions?:drivin:

[goldhammer]

Al- I just heard about a 4 speed/transfer out of an 87 3/4 ton GM. Sitting on the guys shop floor and he wants it to go away. Told him to check to see what it is, should be a 465/205 or maybe 208. Will let you know if you are interested. Located down in Lebanon.

[Bama Burden]

Scotty, I like the cradle idea. Have you seen it done? Any place you could point me for design ideas.

[scotty]

seen it with my own eyes in real life,no. seen pics and read testimony from the guy that ran it,yes. a built 440 to a chrysler 727 to a dana 300,and a divorced 205 connected right to the 300 with a single joint. it all lived in a scout II.

he drove it on the road,beat the snot out of it,and tore the transmission in half longways one day when a "bomb proof" motor mount let go. :eek:

here ya go:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154113

look for a post on the 2nd page by "twistedmetal"

[Slick Willie]

Well, it took me almost a freakin' hour to read, but that was some funny stuff.

So in summary, if you make the cradle design to secure your 2nd case, make a cradle for your engine too. The motor mounts are the weak link. :rolleyes:

[Bama Burden]

A pretty entertaining read...
I think I'll be sticking with the intermediate DS approach, mostly for ease of installation and maintenance

[JeepinPete]

Al, in reference to pulling the drivetrain out of your '91... '89-'91 Suburbans and FS Blazers had passenger drop NP241 transfer cases. Its a direct bolt up to replace you drivers drop NP241, so long as you find one that was attached to a 700R4...

[AlsChopShop]

Al- I just heard about a 4 speed/transfer out of an 87 3/4 ton GM. Sitting on the guys shop floor and he wants it to go away. Told him to check to see what it is, should be a 465/205 or maybe 208. Will let you know if you are interested. Located down in Lebanon.
i was reading back through and somehow missed your post. is this the one you put up in the for sale section?

Al

[AlsChopShop]

Al, in reference to pulling the drivetrain out of your '91... '89-'91 Suburbans and FS Blazers had passenger drop NP241 transfer cases. Its a direct bolt up to replace you drivers drop NP241, so long as you find one that was attached to a 700R4... glad to hear that would work. luckily, i don't need to sell my truck anymore so i can keep it as my DD!:drivin:

Al

[Cherokee-Kid]

Al you should just come up and buy my '77. It's got a fresh (well it's been sitting for a few years never fired yet) warmed and balanced 350 (2 bolt) / Chevy cased TH400 (AMC guts re-cased) / BW1339 (with low range and Doug Nash part time kit). This would be a better start then you obtaining the parts and peicing yours together. I was looking at keeping the drivetrain but I'm not that attached to it, just my money is.

I have an NP205 I was thinking of putting in it but found that it won't work without being totally worked over like you are finding out now. It is mated to a SM465 sitting behind a 350 in a '77 Chevy truck in my backyard.

Anyways I'm a jeep over my limit right now so check out my for sale ad:

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=53832

[AlsChopShop]

i'd love to buy the complete drivetrain.....

how did you get the qt to bolt to the gm 400? did you need an adapter? i thought the cases had different mounts or is it just the tailshaft difference?

Al

[Cherokee-Kid]

Al,

The only difference between the Chevy TH400 and the AMC is the Bellhousing bolt patterns. The tailshaft bolt patterns are the same. So you just drop in the long QT specific tailshaft (requires total tear down) and then the Chevy case TH400 bolts right up to the stock Quadratrac adapter and case. No driveshaft changes are needed or anything. You just have to put the motor in the correct location using mounts (my dad and I built mine) which really was no sweat and I think much better than using the Novak mounts. I ended up buying block hugger headers but these will not work as the passanger side dumps almost on top of the diff. Brent over at BJ's showed me what he used which was just a late model Chevy truck non EGR header.

If you are serious I can gather up some more info and pictures of what I have for you. I would have to figure out moneywise as to what I would want for Engine/Trans/stock adapter/and transfer case too. I've sunk a pretty good chunk of change just on building the motor and was thinking of keeping that rather than taking a loss but hey I need less to deal with right now in my life. Shoot you get a better deal if you want the whole rig as it is almost completely set up.

[AlsChopShop]

seeing as what you've done with the motor, i wouldn't be able to pay that much for it. i don't need a built motor for a trail rig anyway. whats the story with the 77 chev? does it need a home? i'd be back to setting up manual linkages but if the price is right....

Al

[Cherokee-Kid]

Shoot I had a response all typed up and then it got dumped. Oh well.

So the '77 Chevy sitting in my backyard is my father-in-law's. He wants the 4 bolt 350 out of it and that is all. He will then get rid of the rest of it. It has an NP205 and SM465 in it and 10 bolt front and rear axels. He had a buyer for the remainder of it but I don't know if that is still on.

I think your going to find out that adapting a drivetrain from a complete donor is going to cost you more in the long run. Any other tranfer case is going to require custom made drivelines or searching the earth for something that will work. With a NP205 it'll hang low, and to avoid this you will have to clock it so an adapter/clocking plate is in order. Of course putting a manual in going to be a pain in the rear, fabing mounts and setting up a clutch and shifter. Any scenerio is going to be new exhaust and some may force you to do something about a gas tank. I'll tell you that if your not after rock crushing bullet proof stuff my setup may be the way to go, but hey you can only afford what you can afford.

My motor is not seriously built, it just cost quite a bit of money to build motors these days. Only thing really special about it is it's balanced otherwise it is usual performance and upgrade stuff. Hell I got really lucky with most of it as my dad found the short block on the side of the road while he was working for the DOT. Thing turned out to be good so it was a start for me, I could have had to poney up alot more cash for sure. I did some trading for newly rebuilt heads but boy oh boy those Summit orders are what cost the coin. Anyways, if you change your mind let me know, as my stuff isn't going anywhere for a while and when it does it will be to Eastern WA which wouldn't be any harder for you to get.

Good luck and later,

Dave

[4x4fEvEr]

a chevy 205 wont bolt up to a ford tranny and a ford 205 wont bolt up to a chevy tranny right>?

[Cherokee-Kid]

There are several versions of Chevy NP205s just put in the Chevys. One with a 10 spline input for the SM465. One with an early style input for a TH400. I think the outputs of these early ones have a certain spline count. Then there are later ones with more splines mating to a TH400 and more splines on the output. Then there are divorced versions as mentioned before.

As far as the Ford vs. Chevy I think the Chevys are passenger drop while the Ford is drivers drop plus I think they are diffent spline counts.

Don't quote me on any of this but rather, you should refer to Pirate4x4 as there is a write up describing identifying them on.:thumbsup: I think it was mentioned before that someone can spend some good money and quickly find they just wasted it doesn't mesh with their application.

[Cherokee-Kid]

Well here is a link to some of there differences:

http://www.northwestfab.com/input.html

http://www.offroaddesign.com/Transfer%20Case%20ID%20Guide.htm

It is hard to try and keep track of it all in my head as I've only really identified the one I have.

[BRUTUS]

Al- I just heard about a 4 speed/transfer out of an 87 3/4 ton GM. Sitting on the guys shop floor and he wants it to go away. Told him to check to see what it is, should be a 465/205 or maybe 208. Will let you know if you are interested. Located down in Lebanon.

did his house get hit with a missle or something? :D

[Bama Burden]

The Ford 205 will have a larger input bearing than the Chevy, though I'm pretty sure the Chevy can be machined to accept the larger bearing. With the Chevy's you're looking at either a 32-spline input or the earlier 10-spline input. I wish somebody made a 35 spile input conversion so that I could simply pull the 2wd tailpiece off of my 465 whenever I go D60 up front (I figure I'll have better luck finding a Chevy D60). Plus the extra beef of a 35 spline input would be pretty nice.

[AlsChopShop]

Shoot I had a response all typed up and then it got dumped. Oh well.

So the '77 Chevy sitting in my backyard is my father-in-law's. He wants the 4 bolt 350 out of it and that is all. He will then get rid of the rest of it. It has an NP205 and SM465 in it and 10 bolt front and rear axels. He had a buyer for the remainder of it but I don't know if that is still on.

I think your going to find out that adapting a drivetrain from a complete donor is going to cost you more in the long run. Any other tranfer case is going to require custom made drivelines or searching the earth for something that will work. With a NP205 it'll hang low, and to avoid this you will have to clock it so an adapter/clocking plate is in order. Of course putting a manual in going to be a pain in the rear, fabing mounts and setting up a clutch and shifter. Any scenerio is going to be new exhaust and some may force you to do something about a gas tank. I'll tell you that if your not after rock crushing bullet proof stuff my setup may be the way to go, but hey you can only afford what you can afford.
bummer, i was hoping for the motor. ;)

i've found a few good deals on that body style of truck, i'd just pull the motor and scrap the rest.

i've already assumed a new exhaust is in order, i've already assumed the tank would need to go. the rig came with an aftermarket tank anyway ready to instal behind the axle. those things are not too big of a deal, but i agree the manual swap part might be a little more hairy. after all that work, would i even be happy with a manual? i don't know that i would. i'm split on having either, so why worry about switching it, ya know?

i think you are absolutely right on the drivetrain swap. i keep getting into that "might as well go 120%" mentality when i start thinking about upgrades. i need to keep telling myself to keep it simple stupid!

i am pretty dead set on dumping the amc motor (i see no value or benifits to it) for a tbi sbc. i've realised that i may need to wait on the tbi part for now and just upgrade the motor to tbi later. availibility is key here. its not so easy to find a tbi motor with full harness and ecu.

so drop in an sbc, find a gm th400 shell and transplant the guts. seems fairly easy, and really cost friendly compared to all the other options. did you want to part with just the trans/t-case? i wouldn't mind a part time kit at all. and then the setup would be nice and simple, perfect for my needs. i suppose i can always upgrade later if a 205 falls into my lap. ;)

Al

[goldhammer]

Brutus-

No, his kid swapped to an automatic and left the married unit in the middle of dad's shop floor for over a year. The kid hard rolled the sand rail and tweaked the upper tubes. I put it on the frame rack and spent around 3 hours re-tweaking to original, and swapped him the labor for the trans/transfer. Now going to put in in the crewcab's chassis (since it is a chev frame, will save some time fabbing mounts, but have to add all the clutch stuff now. Will wind up with a decent crawl out of it though with the 465 granny, 208's low and the 4.10's in the punkins.