View Full Version : GM TBI conversion -looking for info
06-01-2006, 11:51 AM
I need to get going on this very soon. My carb is acting up again! I think I have all the TBI parts, but I still need a programmer of some sort and at least an initial fuel map for the chip. There are a few other minor things too, like fuel line, any modifications I need/want to do to the wiring harness, etc... but that's the easy stuff!
I'm attempting to do this pretty much all as cheap as I can. If I can find a freeware program to read/write the chip, that would be cool. Are there any?
Are there initial programs written for the 360 engine with a stock cam, or am I going to be doing a lot of experimenting/data logging? I'm no stranger to programming, but I'd like to have a decent starting point at least.
I'm not sure what to look for in a programmer either. I'm tempted to do a conversion to a flash chip so I don't need an external programmer/eraser. I'm sure this would require different software too. Can anyone point me in the right direction on that?
I was planning on keeping the motorcraft ignition, but I also have an HEI module and I've heard some talk of making those work to control the spark of the stock distributor. Is there any advantage? Are there write-ups on how to do it and interface it (or the motorcraft) to the GM TBI computer?
I have a lot of bookmarks for TBI conversion information and I've read through most of it, but I'm hoping someone who has done it can help shorten my research time so I can get going on this.
06-01-2006, 12:06 PM
You can buy an adapter to convert to flash chips from moates.net.
You can also buy a programmer for the flash chips from them.
Good products, and service I've used him for my EEC-IV ford, and my GM stuff.
You can get the chips cheap from mouser.com or wherever.
If you submit a sample request @ http://www.sst.com/sales/sample_request.xhtml , and they'll send you 5 or 6 free.
There are some binaries located on another members website
Far as programming information, just do a Google for "GM TBI hack 1227747" and you'll stumble onto a huge cache of information detailing the program etc.
There are also numerous threads on this and many other forums regarding install/tuning/troubleshooting/etc.
06-01-2006, 12:31 PM
Id say go with the flash chip adapter from moates.com.
I just picked up a new (junkyard -LOL) tbi setup for an upcoming project and the first mod will be the flashchip in the ECM :)
I actually logged some ALDL data last night for the first time in months and am glad I have the flash chip. Quick and easy.
now to find a fuel pressure gauge, mod my regulator, on and on and on... :rolleyes:
good luck with it man
06-01-2006, 01:27 PM
So, am I getting this right...
To convert to a flash setup I need something like this (http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=25_36&products_id=41) that seems to cover the conversion, ZIF socket and chips all pretty handily.
I still will need a programmer (http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3081) (and this one is pretty inexpensive and versatile -me likey!).
And then Tunerpro will give me the ability to alter the programming on the chip.
Seems simple enough... (famous last words)
Not that it makes a difference, but I still use the UV chips. I put a zif socket in and bought a lot of 2732 eproms on ebay - ended up being about 70 cents a chip. If you are trying to do it real cheap, if you have some old Atari games, they used the 2732 chip :) I just program a few chips with some slight differences (ie big, bigger, biggest) take them with me and drive and log the data. Flash is newer technology, and depending on what you get, you can store more than one bin on it.
For a programmer, I got a Willem style one off of ebay and it works great - except on chr1s' busted eproms :p ;) .
Before you upgrade, you may want to check this out :D
06-01-2006, 05:08 PM
Hmm... What does the adapter do, other than change the spacing of the legs? (i.e. is the pin count the same?) If I get the adapter, do I need ZIF or other socket? Can I potentially use a ZIF socket instead of the adapter?
06-01-2006, 05:28 PM
PB that thing looks really cool!
06-01-2006, 09:25 PM
BigRedCheif, check out the MegaSquirt controller - you can bypass all that flash stuff and it's much more flexible. You can build it yourself or buy one and a harness pre-made, and make changes to your fuel map on the fly. They start at $150. Pick up a TBI, a few accessories and you're good to go!
http://www.megasquirt.info or do a search on the forum.
06-01-2006, 10:20 PM
Well, I've already got all the TBI stuff (including the ECU), so I figured I'd take that route. I've had pretty good luck picking chips out of sockets, so maybe I'll just get the adapter for the flash chip, a few chips and a programmer. I didn't realize there were so many options!!
06-02-2006, 07:04 AM
... I got a Willem style one off of ebay and it works great - except on chr1s' busted eproms :p ;) .
I almost spit my coffee all over the monitor when i read that -LOL
I ran out of packing for the prom eraser I sold you, so I stuffed the box with old 2732 chips.. :eek: LMAO
BigRedChief- One of the main benefits of the flash chip is it takes a small step out of the equation. The erasing part.
Not that its a big deal at all, but if your lazy like me, it takes all of 3 seconds to erase the flash chip. I also had problems programming the 2732s with the cheapie willem i got off ebay (must have been those busted eproms ;) ) but it handles the flash chips with ease.
Glad to see more FSJ TBI projects! Seems like the support group is growing!!! :D
06-02-2006, 11:10 AM
I'm definintely lazy... why else would I not have my jeep 1-ton'd and SOA'd? :D Actually, I should have clarified, I'm giong for cheap/easy/simple (or least equipment).
06-07-2006, 02:47 PM
Holy Cow!! I just got my "samples" from SST. Wow, those people are generous!! I probably don't need as many as I got, but they asked for a quantity and 10 seemed like a nice, round number, so... 10 chips just showed up in the mail!
The programmer should be showing up soon.
I haven't had a chance yet to measure the leg spacing on the existing chip to order the adapter. :(
Only a few more bits and pieces to take care of before the real fun begins!
06-07-2006, 04:59 PM
Hopefully a few of the TBI guru's are still paying attention to this thread... I have another question...
Has anyone figured out a good solution to the lack of baffling in the fuel tanks on these rigs? I was thinking of using a big pre-pump filter as a reservoir and (if it's possible) tapping a return line to my filter/reservoir to help keep it full in situations where the pick up in the tank is not immersed for extended periods of time. Any thoughts or ideas?
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