spools?

[learfxr]

Who uses spools in their FSJ? I'm not looking to drive my J10 on the street much. I plan to haul it to places to trail ride. I'm wondering if I should use a spool front and rear to save$ and get the truck ready quicker because I won't have to save for higher price parts. There is a D44 mini spool for all gear sizes that is $60. Would this be a decent choice?

http://www.discountjeepparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/2880_226_249/products_id/14043

[case]

I had a spool in the rear of my f250. I hated it so bad I took it out less than a week after I put it in. I would keep open diffs untill I could get something better.

[learfxr]

did you hate it due to street use? I'm planning off road only. Just never used one, so I'm not sure what I want. Sure sounds better than $260 a set for lockers.

[JeepNOFEAR]

I've heard it sucks to turn if you have one in the front.

[case]

It was terible on the street. If you are only going to use it offroad you may like it OK. I read an article that said they were not bad on the street, it said that they only wore out tires faster, thats why I got one. But like I said I wont use one again.

[paddyp]

I have the rear of my Jeep welded, which is the same as running a spool. It isn't my daily driver, just to trails and back. I love it off-road, street doesn't bother me too much because I knew what I was getting into with it.

[4x4fEvEr]

spools are great and cheap im welded front and rear till i install my new gears and spools front and rear. it does suck to turn but thats what locking hubs are for. u cant beat the performance.

[GaWag]

Spool rear and welded front in my old D44's. I will weld up the gears in my new 60's! I love it! Very predictable offroad. Not too bad on the street. Wouldn't do it much tho.

[derf]

Having a spooled front really sucks. Either you have to constantly get out to lock/unlock your hubs or you can't turn for squat.

I'm putting a twin stick Atlas and a front Detroit in my CJ project. When I want to turn, I just put it in RWD in high or low and the detroit will unlock itself, givng me fantastic turning radius.

[4x4fEvEr]

if you are running big meats anyways u should think about hydro assist steering. locking and locking your hubs isnt that bad when u make the passenger do it :D

[_jeff_]

if you tow it to f'road it, you'll probably like some lincoln-lockers...

[derf]

if you are running big meats anyways u should think about hydro assist steering. locking and locking your hubs isnt that bad when u make the passenger do it :D

Even with hydro assist, the spooled front will push at least one of it's tires and give you a crappy turning radius.

[oldyellowwagoneer]

For less than the price of two detroits you can get the mini spool for the rear and an ARB or OX locker for the front. Then you'll have the best of both worlds up front and you won't wear out your passenger either....

[Stuka]

The minispool wont hold up under the weight of an FSJ. They rely on the strength of the stock cross pin, which isnt very strong.

[incommando]

www.performanceoffroadcenter.com (http://www.performanceoffroadcenter.com)

These guys have good service and the best D44 spool/mini-spool prices I have found.

www.performanceoffroadcenter.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=37_85 (http://www.performanceoffroadcenter.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=37_85)

[learfxr]

Thanks for all the info guys. Still learning and trying to decide what I want. Never owned a 4x4 before, so it's all new. I'm thinking I may spool the rear to save a few bucks and not sure on the front yet. I plan to go easy on it for a little while to learn and try not to break much at first. Then I'll hit everything in site with the truck after a while. The guys at work want to know why I would buy a J10, I tell them it's so I can hit every tree on the trail and just laugh.

[shadowjeep]

www.performanceoffroadcenter.com (http://www.performanceoffroadcenter.com)

These guys have good service and the best D44 spool/mini-spool prices I have found.

www.performanceoffroadcenter.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=37_85 (http://www.performanceoffroadcenter.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=37_85)

they have very good prices for full spools. i may do some shopping there.:D

[derf]

Thanks for all the info guys. Still learning and trying to decide what I want. Never owned a 4x4 before, so it's all new. I'm thinking I may spool the rear to save a few bucks and not sure on the front yet. I plan to go easy on it for a little while to learn and try not to break much at first. Then I'll hit everything in site with the truck after a while. The guys at work want to know why I would buy a J10, I tell them it's so I can hit every tree on the trail and just laugh.

If this is your first 4x4, I'd recommend driving it for a while with open differentials for two reasons.

1. It takes more to get an open diff 4x4 to go places so you learn better how to pick a line and what you need to do to get over obstacles. And learning all that before you have lockers will make you that much better when you do get the lockers.

2. It's harder to get yourself into serious trouble. That is to say that the open diff rig won't keep climbing that huge rock well past the tipping point as often as the locked rig will. I've seen rich kids take their locked rigs out on their first ever wheeling trip and end up rolling their $40K+ rig first time out. You don't see that as often when the newbie has open diffs.


I'd recommend walking before you run. Besides, that will give you the time to investigate what kind of off roading you really enjoy and what kinds of lockers work best in those environments. Not only that, you'll be able to save up money to get the locker you really want instead of cheaping out with the one you can barely afford.

[Stuka]

Yeah, its important to learn in steps. Drives me nuts to see these guys go and build these rigs that are al locked up and lifted and such, but have NEVER been offroad. They have no concept of what it takes to climb something.

[will e]

I have to agree with Derf and Stuka on this one. I started out with a 4" lift and open diffs. After a couple of years I put in the ARB in the back and just recently a 'lunch box' locker in the front. Learning on open diffs was a good experience.

[learfxr]

Was there a reason you went ARB rear and lunch box in the front? I thought the opposite was the preferred way? Then you could have better stearing using the ARB?

[will e]

Was there a reason you went ARB rear and lunch box in the front? I thought the opposite was the preferred way? Then you could have better stearing using the ARB?

"Available funds..." :)

and strength

I did the rear first. Paid someone to do the install and new gears. $$$$$$$$ The ARB replaces the carrier. It is TOUGH. I figured with 31" tires not much chance of breaking it. Don't want to break the rear axle.


I liked being locked so much I decided to do the front. With a Part Time case you can get away with a lunch box on the front since on the street you are in 2wd and the hubs are not locked. The Aussie was cheap, it uses the stock carrier. I could install it at home (no need to reset back lash). The front sees MAYBE 200 miles a year in 4wd so I figured even I couldn't screw it up. If the locker breaks I unlock the hubs and put it in 2wd and off I go.....

If I had the funds I would have gone ARB in front too.

[learfxr]

Ah. I have no plans of working on gears myself either. I'd like to run something like 4.10s in my truck someday, but I will have to pay lots of $ to have it done. It's a job I won't do. I'll build a transmission, but not a rear end.

[scotty]

not much to add. like derf and stuka said,its definately a good idea to run around for awhile with open diffys. it will give help teach you how to drive,as well as giving you a good idea if the trails youll frequent will even require a locked diff.

once youve decided you could use a locker, dont spend any $$ on 44s until youre 100% sure that the tires youre running arent going to creap up into the 35"+ range,as youll need new axles(at least the rear) for big tires and any $$ youve spent on 44s will be down the tubes. :eek: lots of folks here have learned the hard way that no matter how much $$ you spend on a 44,it will always be a 44

with 31-33s and milder trails youll prolly do fine with a welded rear and open front.not sure what other mods you plan for your truck,but its hard to imagine a full bodied,full length j10 on any real extreme trails(at least ohio/indinanas trails ;) ). if you do find your self needing a front locker,weld front and add a ram to help turn the tires. a ram is a good investment,as it IS transferable to a new front axle if needed.

i ran a welded front for awhile,and it never bothered me other than physically trying to muscle the 38s into the direction i wanted to go. while im sure that it increased my turning radius,id have to do alot of multiple point turns anyway,and i think it wouldnt bother me if i had a ram assist to get em pointed in the right direction. i run a lunch box locker up front now,and it never unlocks anyway while the transfer case is in 4wd. in order to turn i have to shift the transfer case to 2wd,and then the locker will unlock and click just like its sposed to. it works well for me,as i spend alot of time shiftinng the front in/out. if your driving style cannot accomodate this,then a welded front is prolly a better investment than spending $$ on a lunchbox locker that wont ever unlock anyway.

last and not least,i wouldnt waste $$ on spools. a properly welded open diff is as strong as a full spool,and definately stronger than a mini-spool

my 2 cents :)

[learfxr]

I'm definately not planning a rock crawler build, just wanting a capable trail beater in the future. I'm planning a Rusty's 6" lift and 35's. I have the 20 rear and 44 front, all stock as far as I know. I will pull the dif covers soon and try to find out just what I have. I was just trying to do quick research on the topic because my front will be apart to fix a leaking passenger side axle seal and I wondered if I should keep it apart until I buy a lunchbox locker or something to put in there and that had me thinking about a spool in the rear. Trying to stay fairly cheap and have fun.

[will e]

SInce you have it apart, If you have a part time transfer case then get a lunch box locker for the front. Its cheap and easy to install. A locker in front will do wonders for your abililty to climb and pull yourself out of mud.

Get a new pin too.

[Slick Willie]

I started with open diffs and 32's, then welded the rear (which is free!!!) with 32's, then started running 34's. I have the 20 rear and the 44 front also. Here's what I have to say.

I have wheeling experience, I can tell a world of difference in a welded rear and an open diff, I have a heavy right foot driving style that allows me to make it up things I probably shouldn't, and I can turn great with the open front. I say leave your front open for a while (at least 2 good long wheeling trips) and weld your rear (we can provide instructions/pictures if needed...it's really easy though). The welded rear will allow you to have a lot of fun wheeling, and the open front will allow you to turn. By then, you will know what you will need to upgrade to if anything.

[learfxr]

pics and info would be a must if I did weld the rear. I know nothing about gears. I dread going in there. Thank god Jets don't have differentials! Of course now that I'm an inspector they can build what ever they want. ;-)

[Slick Willie]

There's nothing to be worried about here. It may seem hard, but it really isn't. Seriously, if you can unbolt bolts and weld, you can do this. It's really easy. Pull the diff cover off, clean out the inside with brake cleaner, weld it (either yourself or get someone to), clean out interior for slag/spatter, reseal diff cover and bolt back in place, fill with fluid, done. It's that simple. An important part is getting good penatrative welds on the spider gears. But if they suck, at least fill the gaps good. :p I'll post up detailed pictures and welding instructions when I get home tonight. If no one beats me to it. :rolleyes:

[derf]

There's nothing to be worried about here. It may seem hard, but it really isn't. Seriously, if you can unbolt bolts and weld, you can do this. It's really easy. Pull the diff cover off, clean out the inside with brake fluid, weld it (either yourself or get someone to), clean out interior for slag/spatter, reseal diff cover and bolt back in place, fill with fluid, done. It's that simple. An important part is getting good penatrative welds on the spider gears. But if they suck, at least fill the gaps good. :p I'll post up detailed pictures and welding instructions when I get home tonight. If no one beats me to it. :rolleyes:

Don't you mean "clean it out with brake cleaner" and not brake fluid?

[Slick Willie]

Shew...woops. Hope no one tried to clean it out with brake fluid. :rolleyes:

[Slick Willie]

Ok, so here's a picture of an axle with it's diff cover off. Notice the ring gear, the carrier, and the spider gears inside the carrier. The deal is that when you weld the spider gears, it makes the whole carrier rotate as one piece.

http://www.longhornoffroad.com/pages/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1977&g2_serialNumber=1

So here's a closer picture of just the spider gears. The red lines represent where you weld. Make sure you fill the gaps good. Use a pick or a flat head screwdriver to scrape off slag and clean it out as good as you can after you weld. Once you weld all 4 corners, let it cool, then rotate it around and get the other side's 4 corners. Be sure not to spray brake cleaner in there when it's hot either. Brake cleaner is flamable. ;)

http://www.longhornoffroad.com/pages/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1979&g2_serialNumber=1

[scotty]

good pic,but i like to take it a step further. if you want your welded diff to be as strong as a spool,then you need to weld where the red bars are,and also anywhere that the gears touch the carrier. make it one big,solid chunk. do NOT try and weld them in a way that you can get it back apart if you dont like it. 2.72-3.73 open carriers are a dime a dozen. weld it good so it never moves again,and if you dont like it just track down a new open diff.

also,i personally like to remove the diff and remove the ring gear. i know that i personally can do a better job of the welding with the diff out on the bench,rather than scrunched up sitting under the rear of a truck ;)