Timing on '84 Wag

[cdwentland]

Hi Guys,

My '84 Grand Wag has a 360 w/ Edelbrock Performer Package (carb, intake & cam) and
Mallory Unilite Dist. & MSD Ignition. I bought it built like this and I can't get the timing right. Any one here have thier motor
built the same & have any recomendations on settings?

Also, has anyone installed the Edelbrock Off Road kit in the Carb? Is it tough to do?

Thanks for any info.

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http://www.virtue.nu/cdwentland/jeep1.jpg
'84 Grand Wag "50 Buck's!"
360/np229/727 w/Eldebrock Carb, Intake, Unilite ignition
MSD Box, Alumacoat Headers, 3" Rough Country Lift
EZ-locker in Rear, 31x10.50's (soon to be 33x10.50)

[nograin]

Nice looking Wag!

Tell us a little more about what is wrong about your timing.

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360 727auto-trany, NP229
body by beer (PO) :(
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
http://users.erols.com/mathewg/85gwsmll.jpg
My other car is a fish

[cdwentland]

The timing is currently set at about 14d BTDC
& idles a little high, has good take off coming off idle, but spark knocks when accelerating hard. If I run about 10d BTDC it idles normal and accelerates good when you get going, but stumbles bad when coming off idle. It has mech. advance on the distributor, but I dont have any manuals for adjusting it. It also appears to be running a little rich, but I dont know if that is from the timing settings or the carb needing adjustment.

I currently have the triangular shaped foam Edelbrock breather on it. Does it flow enough air and filter out dust well or should I get a normal style round element for better airflow. It gets pretty dusty on the gravel roads at Uwharrie if its dry.

Thanks for any help|

------------------
http://www.virtue.nu/cdwentland/jeep1.jpg
'84 Grand Wag "50 Buck's!"
360/np229/727 w/Eldebrock Carb, Intake, Unilite ignition
MSD Box, Alumacoat Headers, 3" Rough Country Lift
EZ-locker in Rear, 31x10.50's (soon to be 33x10.50)

[nograin]

We make luck out here. I happen to have data on your set up components.

First, some more questions.
1. Do you have the Unilite with the Vacuum advance or one without?
2. Do you have the MSD 6 alone, or with additional control boxes?
3. Do you have emmissions control equipment?

I am not convinced the problem is entirely in the timing, it may be in the fuel air mix as well. Nevertheless, lets get the timing down if possible, then work on the fuel air if needed. Worst case might require some timing tweaking later on.

Air cleaner. I personally don't like that style, but thats not important. If the surface area is at least the same as the original, and filter material is equal or better in flow ability, you'll be fine. Holley tested a similar style domed-foam one in 1971 and found it flowed very well, but I don't have data for yours.

Timing. The adjustment on the Unilite changes the timing advance curve. If you have the vacuum advance version, the vacuum advance curve is also adjustable.

1. Set the total advance. That is the advnace at high rpm. 2500 or 2700 rpm is usually good, there should be little to no change in timing above that range.

Do this by loosing the distributor hold down, and rotating the entire distributor. Set it about 3 degrees less than where you hear ping. Since you hear ping where you are now, measure what you are at, and reduce it. Tighten the hold down, and make a Wide Open Throttle run. This will probably be around 29 - 34 degrees with an MSD unit. If you have a vacuum advance, it must be disconnected and the vacuum side plugged (golf t works good) when you measure the timing. This is because at WOT the vac advance plays no role. Repeat until you have no ping! Stop the WOT test any time you hear knock!

2. Once the total advance is fugured out, then you can adjust the timing curv. From what you wrote, It sounds like you will be reducing the total timing as described as above. By turning the distributor, the entire curve has now been shifted. You suggest the wag needs more advance at low rpm. So, now adjust your curve with the adjuster on the distributor to increase the low rpm timing. Again, measure this without the vacuum advance.

3. If you have a vacuum advance, and I hope you do, then measure the timing with it attached, preferably with a vacuum gage too, but you can do without. Then, make some light to part throttle accelerations. Reduce vacuum advance if it pings, increase it if it doesn't. Again, stay 2-3 degrees less than ping once you find it to be safe.

4. Remove a sparkplug or more and see if it is sooty (rich) or white (lean) or tan. Then you can address the carburator if needed.

One PIA with the measuring total timing is that you will need to get a timing light that lets you "dial back" to zero or install timing tape on the harmonic balancer.

Hope that helps.

[cdwentland]

The advance is mechanical. The MSD box is alone(I think). The emission controls are gone.

Do you know if Mallory has a website with tech info on setting the dist?

I will try these working on this over the weekend.

Thanks for your help nograin!!

[FSJman]

wich carb do you have


model number

have you changed your metering rods, or jets

i had a similar ;problem , with a lttle tunig i fixed it

[nograin]

I don't know if Mallory has a website, but I know Edlebrock does. They might have a suggested total advance for the cam/motor combination. Make it a few degrees less because of the MSD.

The Mallory catalog I have is from pre-web days!

Well the lack of egr and a billion vacuum lines will make life much simpler. So will the lack of vacuum advance. But IMHO pick up a vacuum advance distributor unless you are only using it for sport. Vacuum advance is not needed for drag racing, but helps part throttle and gas milage.

[cdwentland]

The carb model #1406. I got the off road kit for it after stalling out on a hill climb, but I have not put it on yet.

This is only a toy for now, but I might later use it for Land Surveying.

------------------
http://www.virtue.nu/cdwentland/jeep1.jpg
'84 Grand Wag "50 Buck's!"
360/np229/727 w/Eldebrock Carb, Intake, Unilite ignition
MSD Box, Alumacoat Headers, 3" Rough Country Lift
EZ-locker in Rear, 31x10.50's (soon to be 33x10.50)

[Mike87]

A little warning about that triagular filter element. I hear they are very restrictive (this info. I heard from a friend who used to work at a hi-po aftermarket company).

Also, the element get sucked down and can cover the flow vents on an aftermarket Holley (if so equipped).

Better off with a round housing and a K&N.